What do you expect from your (big) bike dealer - service center?

[OneMoreFarang]

I have a 150cc Suzuki and I bring to the Suzuki dealer where I bought is for service and repair. They do what has to be done, use original parts, all fine.

For small bikes like that original parts are cheap so there is no point in looking for cheaper options.

 

I also have a KTM Duke 390, not really a big bike, but it's a proper bike with lots of electronics, high performance engine, etc. which should be maintained by a qualified dealer /  service center. And that seems to be a problem in Bangkok.

I bought it in 2018 from the KTM distributor at that time and the first service, at the same shop, was fine.

Later the distributor changed. And dealers changed.

Over the years I had my bike at 4 different KTM service places. After the first and good service I used a by KTM recommended service center near Rama 5. They asked me if I want synthetic oil or cheap oil. What a question? In the KTM manual is written which synthetic oil should be used. I expect KTM to use that and don't ask if I want cheap oil. For the service they didn't clean or lubricate the chain. Like: If you want that you have to tell us. And I thought that is part of the service. Not good.

 

Then later I had similar experience with an authorized KTM dealer on Lat Phrao road. They also told me I need a new battery and they told me I should buy the battery and bring it to them so that they can install it. I told them that should be their job. It seems they were confused about that concept.

 

Later I had a little problem with water temperature. I visited a KTM dealer on Phetburi Road and they were able to find and fix the unusual problem. So I thought I will visit them again.

Now I visited them again for service. And I told them they should check the complete bike for any issues. They told me it will be ready in one day, now it's almost a week. They also "lost" my phone number. Yesterday I called them again and asked them what is going on and they told me (in Thai) about a problem with the front suspension and some other issues. I told them: Send me an email with the details. This is what I received.

 

front frok building Chang seal&oil 5000 baht

Chain 5750 baht

rear brake pad 860 baht

rear disk brake 2520

 

On the phone they told me the KTM original fork would be very expensive, so they suggest fixing it locally.

I would have expected more details. If the fork is not original KTM, how about the chain and the brake? I would have expected the brand name from the products and maybe part numbers. Is that too much to ask for from an authorized KTM dealer?

I accept that original parts are not cheap. And sometimes 3rd party parts from reputable manufacturer are fine. But I don't want any parts from no-name companies. "rear disk brake" means little, without information about the brand and maybe part number.

 

What do you think about a situation like that?

Do I expect too much?

How is your experience with your authorized dealer for your big(ger) bike?

 

Years ago, I had a Honda VFR400. I bought that from a Thai guy who had his own little shop, and he was specialized on that bike. From that one man show I didn't expect any sophisticated quotations. And I knew he was good with those bikes. But from a proper authorized dealer I expect more.

 

[Kwasaki]

Have you asked KTM head office for some support.

Sounds like your being ripped off. 

[recom273]

Are your forks leaking? You just need a service / rebuild - if you trust the garage, I think that’s an OK price, I think I have paid that before. I blew a seal before, I was in Laos, we did a temporary fix and I limped back home and my local trusted bike shop serviced both, for about this price. 
 

The chain, I would buy an EK chain or similar and get the garage to fit it, KTM aren’t going to make a chain for you, they will just buy from a distributor and put it on for you. You can search for Magnum, they are the Thai distributor for EK. 
 

The rear brake does not have enough info to give an opinion. 

[Hummin]

I had only good experience with most Honda Big Wing in Thailand. 

 

My next big bike will be Honda again. I see Triumph is now building a respectable line of sale and service centers, but have no experience with them. 

 

Most big bike Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki dealers have problems, and also very few service locations outside Bangkok. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Hummin

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Are your forks leaking? You just need a service / rebuild - if you trust the garage, I think that’s an OK price, I think I have paid that before. I blew a seal before, I was in Laos, we did a temporary fix and I limped back home and my local trusted bike shop serviced both, for about this price. 
 

The chain, I would buy an EK chain or similar and get the garage to fit it, KTM aren’t going to make a chain for you, they will just buy from a distributor and put it on for you. You can search for Magnum, they are the Thai distributor for EK. 
 

The rear brake does not have enough info to give an opinion. 

5000 for fork seal is way over the top. 2,500 more like it. 

Rear brake pads about 500

Rear brake disc.  400 +

Decent enough Chain 1,200

[stoner]

ktm service in bkk is a nightmare. so horrible in so many ways. in fact my duke is sitting at rama 5 with a blown engine right now - probably been there a year. 

[MartinL]

I've found every dealer - except Kawasaki - I've used here to be quite poor. I do everything myself. 

 

The last main dealer I used said:-

1) "We recommend that first valve clearance check is at 5,000 km" at first service. Manufacturer specifies 500 km. When I checked on returning home (I told the dealer not to bother) most of the clearances were tight. If I'd waited until 5,000 km as he 'recommended', engine damage was a big possibility.

2) I provide the dealer with my own oil for oil changes. In this case, 4 litres of top quality Silkolene synthetic oil to bike manufacturer's spec. At the same first service, the mechanic said "This (Silkolene) oil's no good. It's black (actually made to be purple) and should be gold colour". I told him to use it. At the end of the service, I got 2 litres of oil back in unopened bottles. He'd only used 2 litres when about 3.8 are required. The oil level was just visible in the bottom of the sightglass if I leaned the bike over a bit. I put the extra in myself, outside his shop.

3) Chain was adjusted and lubed BUT it was far too tight without any load on the back wheel. Riding it like that might have damaged chain drive and/or gearbox bearings and ruined the performance of the rear suspension. Got him to adjust it to my satisfaction. Such a basic maintenance operation yet they got it wrong.

 

Never went back there despite the 3 year warranty being dependent on an annual dealer service. Do it all myself. I'm prepared to take the risk of warranty repair refusal against damage caused by poor dealer work. Actually, apart from some mice nibbling electrical cables that activated the EMS fault light, the bike has been absolutely trouble-free. I located and solved that problem and repaired it at home.

 

What do I expect from my dealer? Following my experience at this and other main dealers I expect them to do some pretty shoddy work and I've not been disappointed so far.

Edited May 17, 2023 by MartinL

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe I will lookup the parts online on the KTM websites. They show all the parts including part numbers and it is easy to find the prices (i.e. in Germany and the UK). Then I have at least an idea what the original parts cost over there.

I know KTM is not producing the chain themselves, I least I guess they don't do that. I am happy with a brand name quality product which KTM sells under their own name or which the brand name company sells. I want to avoid a bad product to avoid future problem.

 

I replied to that email from the dealer asking for more details. Let's look...

[Agusts]

You're confusing service centers and mechanics in Thailand with the West....!!! 

 

Never go to a mechanic or service center here and tell them to check a bike or service it ..., Must always tell them exactly what to do, what to change for a service (what oil or pads or chain to use) and say precisely what is wrong with the bike for a repair....

 

Never go to a mechanic here if nothing seems or feels wrong, and have checked online a bit first, they for sure find something (else) to repair ... !? 

 

[stoner]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe I will lookup the parts online on the KTM websites. They show all the parts including part numbers and it is easy to find the prices (i.e. in Germany and the UK). Then I have at least an idea what the original parts cost over there.

I know KTM is not producing the chain themselves, I least I guess they don't do that. I am happy with a brand name quality product which KTM sells under their own name or which the brand name company sells. I want to avoid a bad product to avoid future problem.

 

I replied to that email from the dealer asking for more details. Let's look...

there is a shop wemotto or something like that down off ram intra. they carry a lot of ktm parts in stock. 

[MartinL]

3 minutes ago, stoner said:

there is a shop wemotto or something like that down off ram intra. they carry a lot of ktm parts in stock. 

Also online:-

 

https://www.wemoto.co.th/parts

[stoner]

Just now, MartinL said:

Also online:-

 

https://www.wemoto.co.th/parts

ya that's it. thanks. these guys are great. staff very friendly and helpful. 

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe I will lookup the parts online on the KTM websites. They show all the parts including part numbers and it is easy to find the prices (i.e. in Germany and the UK). Then I have at least an idea what the original parts cost over there.

I know KTM is not producing the chain themselves, I least I guess they don't do that. I am happy with a brand name quality product which KTM sells under their own name or which the brand name company sells. I want to avoid a bad product to avoid future problem.

 

I replied to that email from the dealer asking for more details. Let's look...

SKF fork seals are OK.

A competent motorbike workshop guy should take about 4 hours. 

 

 

[papa al]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

5000 for fork seal is way over the top. 2,500 more like it. 

Rear brake pads about 500

Rear brake disc.  400 +

Decent enough Chain 1,200

Right.

Excellent DID 520, O-ring chain for my Duke

was ~600baht, Lazada,

& peanuts for labor to install.

I'd expect a re-seal of forks under 1500.

While you wait/have lunch.

Dealing with any KTM shop is 100% pain in the arz.

Would drother be punched in the gut.

 

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, papa al said:

Right.

Excellent DID 520, O-ring chain for my Duke

was ~600baht, Lazada,

& peanuts for labor to install.

I'd expect a re-seal of forks under 1500.

While you wait/have lunch.

Dealing with any KTM shop is 100% pain in the arz.

Would drother be punched in the gut.

 

Main dealerships that are competent can be found but many motorcycle workshop guys in my book are just motorbike service fixers but called mechanics.

The technician guys are the one best working on your bike.

 

In my experience seems the only way to find a guy capable of working on big motorbikes is to ask around and if you find a guy who has a kitted out workshop you can get lucky. 

[papa al]

21 hours ago, stoner said:

ktm service in bkk is a nightmare. so horrible in so many ways. in fact my duke is sitting at rama 5 with a blown engine right now - probably been there a year. 

Your fault.

[Kwasaki]

55 minutes ago, papa al said:

Your fault.

Yeah don't understand such behavior, any number of small big bike motorcycle workshops could of fixed a blowned engine. 

Utube is full of how to rebuild 390 engines. 

[stoner]

2 hours ago, papa al said:

Your fault.

sorry i wasn't too clear on that. i was more on about the terrible service i got overall from ktm. they stock little to no parts. takes usually a month to order normal parts.

 

engine on me yes. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by stoner

[FriendlyFarang]

On 5/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

They asked me if I want synthetic oil or cheap oil. What a question? In the KTM manual is written which synthetic oil should be used. I expect KTM to use that and don't ask if I want cheap oil.

The "cheap" oil is probably semi synthetic oil, which is what the manufacturer also puts in the bike and which is according to the specs of the owner's manual.

You might now have opted for the premium 100% synthetic oil which costs twice as much and doesn't provide any benefits if you regularly change the oil anyway.

By calling the standard oil cheap they successfully up-sold you the premium oil.

 

On 5/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

For the service they didn't clean or lubricate the chain. Like: If you want that you have to tell us. And I thought that is part of the service. Not good.

This is something that I also noticed and don't understand why, but that's how it is.

 

On 5/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Then later I had similar experience with an authorized KTM dealer on Lat Phrao road. They also told me I need a new battery and they told me I should buy the battery and bring it to them so that they can install it. I told them that should be their job. It seems they were confused about that concept.

That's standard, same as tires, hardly anybody changes this at a dealer. Just go to one of the many battery shops to get a new battery.

 

On 5/17/2023 at 12:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

front frok building Chang seal&oil 5000 baht

Chain 5750 baht

rear brake pad 860 baht

rear disk brake 2520

Looking at the prices, this should be OEM parts, after market parts should be cheaper, but of course it totally makes sense that you clarify this beforehand, not that they sell you overpriced aftermarket parts. This is by the way not a new fork, just a fork rebuild.

[OneMoreFarang]

Just a short update:

Today they called me to answer my questions. I told them I will visit them to talk about it in person - 10min away from home.

They showed me the problems and I agree the fork seals have to be fixed and the other parts replaced.

The assured me the quoted parts are all original KTM.

That's good enough for me and I told them to proceed.

 

I guess I would be able to get some of this cheaper somewhere else. But I am happy to have now one shop where I bring my bike and they take care of it.

I live in a condominium, and I don't have a place to work by myself on my bike like decades ago "back home".

 

Let's look if they call me tomorrow and tell me all is done.

This is obviously still not perfect, but maybe as good as it gets in Thailand.

 

[HaoleBoy]

Some (maybe most) Harley dealers in Thailand are just as bad.  If you go in for  a scheduled service they don't tell you what they've done (and don't do most of the items on Harley's checklist).  I asked several times and got no help at all.  It is easy to look in the service manual and see what must be checked for each KM service interval and to print this checklist off and have the technician make a checkmark and give or show it to the customer.  But no ...

 

Once I was told there were engine fault-codes, but they didn't note what the numbers were.  Yes, it is easy enough to check myself but also easy and thorough to write down what the codes are.

 

Another time I said the kickstand was going over too far.  The technician took it apart and said the part was corroded and bad.  I asked if he took a picture to show me ... NO.  They didn't have a replacement bushing is what he told me.  I found another shop that had the bushing (same bushing is used for many models) and got it installed.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

It is easy to look in the service manual and see what must be checked for each KM service interval and to print this checklist off and have the technician make a checkmark and give or show it to the customer.

I did exactly that with a previous service center. I printed the list from the service book.

When I showed them the list, they looked at it like they never saw it before.

So the idea that they look at in the manual what they have to do at a specific service interval seems to be a foreign concept to them.

I wonder how the international KTM headquarter authorizes such dealers and distributors.

And it seems it's not just KTM. 

 

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

Some (maybe most) Harley dealers in Thailand are just as bad.  If you go in for  a scheduled service they don't tell you what they've done (and don't do most of the items on Harley's checklist).  I asked several times and got no help at all.  It is easy to look in the service manual and see what must be checked for each KM service interval and to print this checklist off and have the technician make a checkmark and give or show it to the customer.  But no ...

 

Once I was told there were engine fault-codes, but they didn't note what the numbers were.  Yes, it is easy enough to check myself but also easy and thorough to write down what the codes are.

 

Another time I said the kickstand was going over too far.  The technician took it apart and said the part was corroded and bad.  I asked if he took a picture to show me ... NO.  They didn't have a replacement bushing is what he told me.  I found another shop that had the bushing (same bushing is used for many models) and got it installed.

So it amounts to this in Thailand the moral of the thread is if you take your bike after the warranty is finished and continue to take your bike to a dealership and not know anything about taking care of a motorbike yourself you are shark wallet bait.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

So it amounts to this in Thailand the moral of the thread is if you take your bike after the warranty is finished and continue to take your bike to a dealership and not know anything about taking care of a motorbike yourself you are shark wallet bait.

There is a difference between knowing something, or maybe even a lot, about your bike, and being able to do anything on your bike.

A long time ago I had a garage with lots of tools. Now, not anymore.

And then there is the fact that some of us are busy, and we just want somebody competent taking care of our bike(s).

 

[papa al]

3 hours ago, HaoleBoy said:

It is easy to look in the service manual and see what must be checked for each KM service interval and to print this checklist off and have the technician make a checkmark and give or show it to the customer.  But no ...

Print this yourself and hand to tech.

B100 wouldn't hurt..

Or complain online.

Up to you.

[stubuzz]

You should really replace the sprockets when fitting a new chain.

[liddelljohn]

I repair and service my own bikes in LOS,,, HDs Ducatis , and when I take my new Z900 into Mityon I stand there and watch what they do , but in future I can do it all myself ..There are some good independents around .  Avoid all BMW dealers at your peril.

[OneMoreFarang]

33 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

You should really replace the sprockets when fitting a new chain.

That's what I thought about. And I asked them. They told me the existing sprockets are fine.

I am pretty sure my chain is not fine because I didn't lubricate it as often as I should... 

[JustAnotherHun]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That's what I thought about. And I asked them. They told me the existing sprockets are fine.

I am pretty sure my chain is not fine because I didn't lubricate it as often as I should... 

If you are - like me - tired of lubricating the chain after each tour, buy a Regina chain.

I installed one on a Versys1000SE last year and am driving now since +8k km without doing anything than to tighthen it from time to time.

The Regina surely is not maintenance-free as sometimes said, but after 8k km through dust, rain and  steam cleaning it looks still very good.

[Hummin]

50 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That's what I thought about. And I asked them. They told me the existing sprockets are fine.

I am pretty sure my chain is not fine because I didn't lubricate it as often as I should... 

How many years and how many km? 

 

The o rings  on your chain is the most important, and needs tobe cleaned and lubricated regulary depending on weather and km