Retirement Visa Renewal Rules

[Mosha]

Back to the yo-yo. 18:20 thursday. The immigration lady calls, "You have to go to your embassey and get proof of your pension." "I gave you that proof via an e-mail from my ex employers this morning". "Big boss (sic) want you to go to embassey, him (sic) want more proof." Hmm bus leaves Ranong about 20:00, both companies. Run round house like a headless chicken, pack bag, find ancient pay slips to prove from last year. Dash into Ranong, by now 7:15, first bus full run onto 2 nd office got last seat. Explain to guy behind desk, you can collect monday am. Asked him to post which costs an extra 100 Baht on top of 2400 ish. Back home after nightmare bus trip home. Broke down after leaving the Southern Bus terminal 90 mins before. Sat in stationary bus for over 2 hours oh joy.

Can't fit another visa run in either as the last run should have been done before the 5th.

[laidback]

I was in Immigration Office last week

You need 800,000 baht in bank account for 3 months prior to getting visa

You do not need medical any more

you are also required to report to the immagration office every 90 days. Thats is being inforced. I just had my retirement visa renewed. They staple the date in your passport. Don't miss that date , you will be fined. They are keeping tract of every foreigner that lives here. hope this info helps

[pauleddy]

I have been posting re Ret extension, and everyone has been helpful.

I am now having (slight) second thoughts as, although I don't want a full-time job, I would like a few odd hours of p/t, workshops etc. Money is not the goal. I need to keep busy.

I realize that one should not work on a Ret Ext.....but I believe that some folks do.

Can I still work p/t on a 90 day visa and then run? How many re-runs are possible? Will a letter from my p/t employer allow me many renewals of this 90 day visa?

Thanks

PEd

[Mosha]

If your visa stamp says employment prohibited, I would take that at face value. I appreciate the need to keep busy side of things. I'm not sure how they would view a just helping a friend out as a regular favour etc.., however as you wil see on another topic. Agerman national has just been deported for working without a valid wp.

[Maestro]

I realize that one should not work on a Ret Ext.....but I believe that some folks do.

You must not work without a work permit.

Until recently, some labour offices issued work permits to foreigners on retirement extension but Sunbelt recently posted that this has stopped. Check with your local labour office to make sure.

If you forfeit your retirement extension and enter Thailand on a tourist visa or a non-O visa, this visa by itself again does not allow you to work. You must get a work permit if you want to work.

--

Maestro

[Mosha]

This might be worth noting. I post it here as it's part of my ongoing saga. If you need a letter of confirmation from your embassy, and ask them to post it instead of collecting it. Make sure the tossers post it. After my friday the 13th visit, I didn't used to be supersticious. I was told the letter would be posted monday, wednesday and no letter. I have just got off the phone, and the letter is still in the embassy. Fortunately a nice Thai lady , Jim, was on the ball, and faxed a copy to immigration and a promise to send it to me via EMS. What are they doing with my taxes?

[peterjcooke]

I went to Mae Hong Son two weeks ago, they DID require a medical certificate (4 hours wait at the hospital) but they happily accepted the certificate from the Siam City Bank showing 1Mill in a fixed deposit. They assured me that it will also be OK for next year...

I renewed my retirement at Pattaya Jomtien no medical but you had to show a recent bank letter, showing 800,000bt... but as I had spent most of mine, the british consulate who is there from 9-00--930 every mornings added up my state pension and a couple of annuities then I only had to find the remainder to make up 800.000,, very easy no trouble

[phutoie2]

Retirement extensions no problem these days, I have only 500k in Bangkok bank savings account, but my small British army pension takes it up to the 800k requirement.

Its still best to get the letter from the bank and photo copies of bank book pages to satisfy the immigration office.

They will now attach a card to your passport page informing you when to 90 day report.

I personally do mine with the post now.

Oh almost forgot - you need the letter from your embassy giving proof of the pension!! too.

Edited July 20, 2007 by phutoie2

[patsfangr]

And now this! Pattaya News published this on July 16. The "Pattaya Expats Club" is going to have someone address this at their Sunday morning meeting at Henry J Beans.

Before I paste the article, I'll note that I am currently holding a 'Non-Immigrant, Type O-A Visa. I entered the country from the USA, on a Tourist visa, with my Thai wife, in April of 2006. I live in the jurisdiction of the Jomtien Imm Off. I applied there for my current 'Non-Immigrant, Type O-A" visa in June of 2006. At that time, I provided "proof of income" in the form of a copy of my company pension, my US Social Security notice of payment, and a verification letter from the US Embassy, which I obtained at one of their field visits to Pattaya. I also provided a letter from my Thai bank, and a copy of the passbook, which had a balance of under 100k at that time. The Imm Off told me that they didn't need a large amount, but only required proof of consistent deposits and withdrawals. Along with the financial stuff, I provided the required medical certificate, obtained for 100 baht at a walk-in "clinic" on Sukhumvit. (Have since used this same source for drivers licenses for myself and my wife. No problem.) Finally, I provided two photos, and copy of my passport. The process was smooth and efficient. I completed the submission of documents in the morning, and went back to pickup my stamped passport that afternoon. It was valid until the original expiration date of the Tourist visa, April, 2007. I have, of course, complied with the 90-day reporting requirements.

I renewed this past April, providing all of the above, minus the proof of foreign income documents. The bank passbook, which showed consistent deposits and withdrawals, and which, again, had a balance of less than 100k, was the only financial information I had to provide. Again, smooth, efficient, and without incident, I submitted all in the morning, and picked up my approved passport, now stamped "RETIREMENT", which was not done for the initial extension and change to 'Non-Imm, OA'.

So, my personal experience with the immigration process at the Jomtien office has been, by leaps and bounds, the most efficient, least troublesome transaction of any kind that I have experienced in Thailand! Now, however, I move on to the new requirement presented by the Pattaya News article. It appears that I may have to go through one more inconvienient loop next April, if, in fact, the Jomtien office enforces this requirement for a Thai validation of the US Embassy proof of income verification letter. It's hard to understand why they would require this for extensions, since such expats have clearly not been a problem, or would have been dealt with already. But, TIT, so who knows? Here's the article:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Retirement Visas based on pensions will require a Foreign Office stamp

The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs has indicated that effective October 1 this year, foreign applicants for the one year retirement visa, or those renewing, must take their embassy letter guaranteeing their income to the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok for a stamp of confirmation. They then return to the local immigration bureau with the letter and process the application as now."

"The ministry emphasized that applicants need journey to Bangkok to do this only once and not annually. The letter they take to the ministry must be the original from the embassy and must not be more than 12 months old. This means that most applicants for a retirement visa, or a renewal, from October 1 this year will need a new letter from their embassy concerning his or her income.

"Immigration sources stressed that all applicants for one year visas, whether farangs over the age of 50 or those with a Thai spouse or dependents, will need to register as a one-off with the ministry if they need an embassy letter as part of the process. "It's just one extra step and the immigration bureau will handle the applications as now provided that the embassy letter has to be stamped by the ministry," a senior police official said, adding that no other regulations have been changed."

"The exception to the new rule are those foreigners, aged 50 and above, who keep at least 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and can show it has been there for three months prior to the application renewal.

These long stayers do not need a letter from the respective embassy to apply for the yearly visa and thus do not have to appear at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok. However, only a small minority of retirement visa holders keep such a sum in a Thai bank for the requisite period, most relying on a combination of pension income in their home country and a lessor amount in the Thai bank."

"Holder's of one year visas, whether retirement or the married man's variety, are asked to note the new regulation for the time being."

The article closes by saying, "Nearer the starting date on October 1,2007, there will be leaflets in English and Thai available at immigration bureaus, including currently ambiguous matters such as foreigners who are unable to travel long distances because they are incapacitated."

George

Edited July 20, 2007 by patsfangr

[phennecke]

My information from Jomtien Immigration might be wrong.

Lawyers webside

7.17 In the case of a family member of a Thai (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse): Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) Proof of family relationship; and

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto; or

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of a parent, the said person must be 50 years of age or over; or

(6) In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

1. Application form

2. Copy of the applicant's passport

3. Proof of family relationship, e.g., marriage certificate, birth certificate, registration of legitimate child, household registration certificate, proof of child adoption, or any other evidence issued by the authority or government agency concerned

4. Proof of Thai nationality of spouse, parents, child or adopted child such as identification card, household registration certificate or other document issued by the authority or government agency concerned

5. Only for clause (6), there shall be a letter of confirmation from a bank in Thailand and copy of bank book or proof of income of either party or both in the total amount of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, such as personal income tax return with receipt, proof of pension, proof of interest from bank account deposit or proof of other income from authority concerned.

[sleepyjohn]

I'm applying for my fourth retirement extension later this year at Chiangmai.

A friend just told me that he was told that not only did he have to have the 800k in for 3 mths., he had to go into immigration with (or was it just get?) the bank letter of certification of the 800k at the beginning of the 3 mths as well as at the end.....that simply showing his bank book when reapplying at the expiration of the last extension was not enough.

This strikes me as true bureaucratic bilgewater or maybe he got the wrong guy.

Does anyone have any info on this as my 3 months starts soon?

Edited July 25, 2007 by sleepyjohn

[lopburi3]

The letter should only be required at the application time (within seven days) one would think. Have not seen anyone post of that requirement that I recall.

[patsfangr]

The letter should only be required at the application time (within seven days) one would think. Have not seen anyone post of that requirement that I recall.

I can't speak to the requirement for a letter for those who need the 800k in the bank, since I'm on the "minimum monthly income" option. I do know that the Jomtien Imm Office definitely required a new letter for my extension. The letter must not be more than 30 days old when it's presented to the Imm Officer.

I still haven't seen any comment on the likelihood that Jomtien will adhere to the new requirement for a validation stamp by the Bangkok Thai Foreign Ministry of a new letter from the cognizant embassy, which verifies monthly income for an expat visa or extension of same. Does anyone have any certain and specific information on this?

[Miami Bob]

Today I got my "O-A" retirement visa extended in Phuket for the fouth time with 900,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

First problem is they said the money cannot be in an SFF account at Siam commercial that pays 4% interest. They made me go back to the bank and switch the money over to a regular savings account that pays almost no interest. In previous posts I have heard people say thier immigration office allowed the SFF accounts.

Next problem was the requirement of having the money in the bank for 90 days. I deposited a cashiers check 110 days before my visa renewal but it took 41 days to clear so I was not within the 90 day requirement. After a lot of haggling back and forth and repeatedly showing them my bank receipt for the deposit of $25,000 US almost 4 months ago, they finally appoved my 1 year extention. Other posters on this forum have said that the 90 day requirement is not enforced at other offices unless it is a first time application.

Thai immigration officers are not all up to date on the ever changing regulations and the interpratation of the rules varies so widely. After all our efforts here on Thaivisa, the bottem line is you have no way of knowing 100% for sure what you will need to qualify until you sit down in front of one particular officer at one particular office at one particular point in time. Just prepare the best you can, dress neatly, don't raise your voice and get aggressive no matter how pissed you are and don't do anything to cause the officer to lose face like showing him paperwork to prove he is wrong about something. Good luck !

[oda561]

all,

I did my 1st renewal based on retirement with my wife on 20 July. We went to the Pattaya Immigration with my US Embassy paper stating my retirement income as well as our marriage certificate and bank book. All was done with-in 15 minutes and we had our one year renewal. This time they kept my US Embassy paper and was told to get a new one for next year. The US VFW told me that we may have to have the US Embassy income paperwork translated at the Thai Foreign Affairs office. As always we will begin to prepare in April for an easy renewal in July.

Dick Cooper

Pattaya, Thailand

[karen fuller]

all,

I did my 1st renewal based on retirement with my wife on 20 July. We went to the Pattaya Immigration with my US Embassy paper stating my retirement income as well as our marriage certificate and bank book. All was done with-in 15 minutes and we had our one year renewal. This time they kept my US Embassy paper and was told to get a new one for next year. The US VFW told me that we may have to have the US Embassy income paperwork translated at the Thai Foreign Affairs office. As always we will begin to prepare in April for an easy renewal in July.

Dick Cooper

Pattaya, Thailand

Could you just clarify for me whether this was one proof of income (or 800,000 in the bank) for you both (not earch) as a married couple My husband and I are having some problems down samui way with this point

thanks in advance and congratulations!

[oda561]

all,

I did my 1st renewal based on retirement with my wife on 20 July. We went to the Pattaya Immigration with my US Embassy paper stating my retirement income as well as our marriage certificate and bank book. All was done with-in 15 minutes and we had our one year renewal. This time they kept my US Embassy paper and was told to get a new one for next year. The US VFW told me that we may have to have the US Embassy income paperwork translated at the Thai Foreign Affairs office. As always we will begin to prepare in April for an easy renewal in July.

Dick Cooper

Pattaya, Thailand

Could you just clarify for me whether this was one proof of income (or 800,000 in the bank) for you both (not earch) as a married couple My husband and I are having some problems down samui way with this point

thanks in advance and congratulations!

I have a letter from the US Embassy of my monthly retirement. We have a joint savings account and both had the letters from our bank, exact same letter with both our names. The Immigration official handed back one of our bank letters. Last time they took both our letters from our joint account.

Dick

[karen fuller]

all,

I did my 1st renewal based on retirement with my wife on 20 July. We went to the Pattaya Immigration with my US Embassy paper stating my retirement income as well as our marriage certificate and bank book. All was done with-in 15 minutes and we had our one year renewal. This time they kept my US Embassy paper and was told to get a new one for next year. The US VFW told me that we may have to have the US Embassy income paperwork translated at the Thai Foreign Affairs office. As always we will begin to prepare in April for an easy renewal in July.

Dick Cooper

Pattaya, Thailand

Could you just clarify for me whether this was one proof of income (or 800,000 in the bank) for you both (not earch) as a married couple My husband and I are having some problems down samui way with this point

thanks in advance and congratulations!

I have a letter from the US Embassy of my monthly retirement. We have a joint savings account and both had the letters from our bank, exact same letter with both our names. The Immigration official handed back one of our bank letters. Last time they took both our letters from our joint account.

Dick

Thanks for that the Samui chap would not entertain a joint account and said we needed two lots of money!

I wish I knew his day off! cheers

[Mosha]

I finally got my 1 year extension. The English writing does not specify the visa type. It just states I can stay until 18 Jul 2008. My first reportin date is 30th sept, which is 90 days after my application. Also a stapled document which just reminds me of the pitfalls for not following the rules. It is however I belive the family visa, as my wife has to pay 500 Baht tax per month to prove the 40000 Baht/month income. Given how they messed me about, I wish I had gone fore the retirement visa now.

[Steve2UK]

Today, at Chiang Mai, I completed the process of changing my visa status from one-year non-imm "B" (due to expire 27 August 2007) to what I assume to be a non-imm "O" visa stamp which says (in part) "stay is permitted up to 27 August 2008". I did it on the basis of being 50+ with UK-sourced income in excess of 65,000 baht per month - supported by a confirmation letter from the British Consulate in Chiang Mai.

My reason for posting here is that it was made pretty clear to me during an earlier visit to CM Immigration that they are VERY keen to see a decent amount of baht held in a Thai bank account - even when you're applying based solely on income. The amount wasn't specified by the officer, but when I suggested that maybe it should be more than 10,000 the officer nodded vigorously. I took the trouble to go to Siam Commercial Bank and draw 75,000 from my UK Nationwide account with the debit card for immediate deposit into the SCB account. I was actually looking to get a letter from SCB confirming the UK source of the money (unnecessary overkill as I now realise); in any case, they would not or could not do that but - for 200 Baht - gave me the standard bank letter confirming that at the close of business on that day my account with them held 80,000 odd baht. I then included the bank letter with photocopies of the bank-book entries as part of the visa application.

While sitting with the officer as he transcribed the supplied information from my consulate letter, bank letter, bank-book and TM7 application form to an internal Thai-language form, I could see that he was meticulously filling in blanks to record both the income per month (and then x 12 to get the annual figure) AND the SCB account balance to the last baht. From that experience, I infer that (at least at CM Immigration) the amount of your Thai bank account balance IS significant in the process - even if it's not part of the arithmetic to reach the 800,000 total. Again, my 80,000 balance was probably overkill but instinct tells me around 20,000 just helps the flow and might mitigate some other requirement that you didn't have exactly to the officer's liking.

Incidentally, while not wanting to re-ignite the argument about what such a one-year visa for over-50's folk is actually called, I'd be remiss if I didn't also report that the internal Thai-language paperwork the officer was filling in (and asked me to counter-sign) carried the words in English block capitals "RETIREMENT VISA" in a panel on the side of the sheet...........

Just returning to my first paragraph - is it possible that I have actually got a one-year extension to my original one-year "B" visa? I doubt it because I had mentioned "retirement" as my reason for applying on the TM7 form, saw it on the officer's internal paperwork and I have the standard 90-day reporting place of residence reminder slip clipped into my passport. I also don't work and don't have a work permit - which is the normal requirement for extending a "B" for a further year. The wording of the stamp is just: "Application of stay is permitted up to 27 August 2008. Applicant must leave the Kingdom within the date specified herein. Offenders will be prosecuted" - no mention of any type of "non-imm". I also applied for the Multiple Re-Entry Permit and that stamp just says "NON-IMM" (valid until 27 August 2008) - and also doesn't mention "O"or "B" or any other type.

So - it's a one year "O", right?

[lopburi3]

Your stamp should have been counter stamped as retirement to the left of the date of issue (at least that is what has been done in Bangkok the last three years). It is not a new visa - just an extension of stay. You already had a non immigrant visa so not change was required.

The re-entry permit is just that and has no cross reference to any visa other than non immigrant.

It is a one year extension of stay based on retirement.

[Steve2UK]

Your stamp should have been counter stamped as retirement to the left of the date of issue (at least that is what has been done in Bangkok the last three years). It is not a new visa - just an extension of stay. You already had a non immigrant visa so not change was required.

The re-entry permit is just that and has no cross reference to any visa other than non immigrant.

It is a one year extension of stay based on retirement.

Thanks for the prompt clarification, Lop. CM Immigration haven't added the "retirement" counter-stamp like that, but (as I read so often) practices seem to vary. For all the reasons I mentioned, I deduced that it must be a one year extension based on retirement. Your last line reminds me that I did encounter the comment from the officers to the effect that "ah, you already have non-imm so it's not a change of visa" (as I had originally thought and was accordingly trying to use TM86 before they gave me TM7).

Almost seems like once you have some kind of current/valid non-imm status (as opposed to VOA, tourist visa etc), anything else is just an extension of it based on various circumstances - retirement in my case?

[lopburi3]

Correct.

[WNOVAK]

Your stamp should have been counter stamped as retirement to the left of the date of issue (at least that is what has been done in Bangkok the last three years). It is not a new visa - just an extension of stay. You already had a non immigrant visa so not change was required.

The re-entry permit is just that and has no cross reference to any visa other than non immigrant.

It is a one year extension of stay based on retirement.

Thanks for the prompt clarification, Lop. CM Immigration haven't added the "retirement" counter-stamp like that, but (as I read so often) practices seem to vary. For all the reasons I mentioned, I deduced that it must be a one year extension based on retirement. Your last line reminds me that I did encounter the comment from the officers to the effect that "ah, you already have non-imm so it's not a change of visa" (as I had originally thought and was accordingly trying to use TM86 before they gave me TM7).

Almost seems like once you have some kind of current/valid non-imm status (as opposed to VOA, tourist visa etc), anything else is just an extension of it based on various circumstances - retirement in my case?

With regard to the last line of this post I am now confused.

If you have a bona fide retirement visa, the first time you wish to renew they only give you an EXTENSION on this visa.

After that 12 month extension is about to run out.......Are you applying for a new visa or will they offer you another Extension?

[Jingthing]

Yes, you apply for continuing extensions every year on the same old visa.

[WNOVAK]

Yes, you apply for continuing extensions every year on the same old visa.

Thank you for that prompt reply

While I have you on line......can you clarify for me.

I have a non-immigrant O-A (retirement visa) issued in Australia May 18 2006. Multiple entry.

I am not living full time in Thailand and subsequently arrived there on May 11, 2007 at which time my passport was stamped allowing me a further 12 months to May 11, 2008.

On May 15 I went to Jontien with the necessary papers to renew my retirement visa for a further 12 months.

The response seemed to be "what was I actually wanting".

The end result was that I paid 1900 baht for a Multiple reentry permit good to May 11, 2008 which took 10 minutes and was stamped in my passport straight away.

I left Thailand again on the 22nd.

What now happens next May?

Surely I can't just get another multiple 12 month re-entry permit! Do I therefore apply for a visa extension, showing my 800,000 baht (which is in the Bangkok Bank)

As it stands now I actually got two years out of a o-a visa issued here in Australia with only the cost of a multi-entry permit for the second year.

Does this go on indefinitely? I think not but could use some guidance on how to maintain this visa (retirement o-a).

regards

Edited August 17, 2007 by WNOVAK

[lopburi3]

You paid 3,800 baht I believe - not 1,900 baht. And you obtained a multi re-entry permit. Any exit now will require you enter that information as your visa information on return and you will be stamped to that May 2008 date.

About three weeks prior to that May 2008 date visit Immigration with 1,900 baht, TM.7, 4x6 photo, bank book/copies (account balance 3 months), bank letter of account balance and passport/arrival card/copies to obtain your extension of stay for 12 months.

At this point you need to be doing 90 day reports if you are in Thailand for longer than 90 days at any time.

What you received is a quark of the non immigrant O-A visa issue - no more free rides.

[WNOVAK]

You paid 3,800 baht I believe - not 1,900 baht. And you obtained a multi re-entry permit. Any exit now will require you enter that information as your visa information on return and you will be stamped to that May 2008 date.

About three weeks prior to that May 2008 date visit Immigration with 1,900 baht, TM.7, 4x6 photo, bank book/copies (account balance 3 months), bank letter of account balance and passport/arrival card/copies to obtain your extension of stay for 12 months.

At this point you need to be doing 90 day reports if you are in Thailand for longer than 90 days at any time.

What you received is a quark of the non immigrant O-A visa issue - no more free rides.

Thank you for the info. It was 3800 baht for the multi entry.

One last point......will it be required (because this is now an extension) to show proof of the funds coming from outside Thailand. In this instance the bank book shows over ten years of deposits but going to be a bit hard to produce written proof that far back.

regards

[lopburi3]

Impossible to say what will be required today - much less next year. But I suspect with long history in bank it may be less of a problem than a new unexplained deposit. But if Bangkok Bank each deposit should have "FTT" code which flags it as a wire transfer and they should be able to obtain wire transfer receipt copies for you from Hqs if required (although not sure how far back). You still have time to make new deposits and use down the money here if need be.

[uncleusathai]

Extension of Visa

For a non-immigrant O-A retirement visa can a person stay in Thailand forever and must there always be an approved extension?

uncleusathai