Linguistically Speaking: Are Your Verbal Skills, These Days, Steadily Waning? What’s to be Done?

[GammaGlobulin]

Dear Friends,

 

When I was in my middle years, I knew my linguistic abilities were a-waxing.

 

Now, in the twilight of my time on this orb, I finally must admit that the very thing that makes me human, my ability to use language, is gradually waning.

 

Sometimes, I forget how to spell certain words.

 

I no longer am able to so easily generate words I need to use.

 

What is to be done with me, in such a state as this?

 

Here is an example, for example:  This word “externality”, I can never remember when I most need to use it.  Sometimes, I must pause, mid-conversation, while I struggle to cough up this simple but useful word.

 

How can I even carry on like this?  What can I do to improve my word-generation facility?

 

Sometimes we hear of those like Philip Roth, or even a Wouk, that could write lucidly with perfect paragraphs, even until the day before they kicked off.

 

Do you feel sad, assuming you, too, are in my boat?

 

For people like us, those who have superior intelligence, we can usually maintain our outward appearance of being fairly capable of writing coherent sentences, using appropriate vocabulary…

 

But, then, when our time comes, we do not just lose our minds gradually, but our cognitive abilities just seem to drop off a cliff, and with little warning.  According to research, it is the dumb person who loses his faculties gradually, though earlier in life.

 

I had not given much thought to my cognitive decline in my youth, even though I did know that I was experiencing this waning, probably beginning in my early 20s.

 

There really ought to be a pill one could swallow to solve this issue.

 

I mean I do not mind living, and I am able to endure life pretty much as well as the next guy. I just don’t like the fact that some (most) of my cognitive functions have been continually and steadily declining, for decades.

 

My math skills were somewhat still OK, up to my 60th year. I was able to manipulate math calculations in my head, without paper, pencil or abacus. But when I hit 68, it was as if I was solving these math problems in my head in slow-mo (slo-mo).

 

Some days, I even feel like, one day, I may become the Marlon Brando character in the film, The Godfather, lying in a tomato patch, with some kid spraying me so lovingly.

 

But, you know, Brando always mumbled. Brando might have had a speech impediment to begin with.

So, what is to be done?

Is there a fix for this?

How much longer must we wait for a cure to our, commonly experienced, verbal warning problem?

 

Regards as usual,

Gamma

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Is it age alone that causes this, or is it also aggravated by living for decades in countries where English isn't the main language and often dumbing down our speech to ensure that we are understood?

[GammaGlobulin]

And further, in my darker moments, I sometimes think of my life as just another good example of an externality.

 

In simpler terms:  My life sometimes seems sort of like a "cost or benefit caused by a producer that is not financially incurred or received by that producer".

 

My parents, in this case, were the producers.

 

And now, I am bearing the cost of the risk they incurred, even while my parents often remained oblivious to it.

 

Is this too dark of a thought?

 

Or, can you also see the logic in this perspective?

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

13 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Is it age alone that causes this, or is it also aggravated by living for decades in countries where English isn't the main language and often dumbing down our speech to ensure that we are understood?

Correct, I think!!!

 

Yes. no matter what, when speaking to others in countries like this, dumbing down is imperative if there is to be any minimal understanding, whatsoever.

 

So...YES...I do agree with you.

 

The only help for this is to try to read more, maybe.

 

And, teaching of anything to anyone might help, as well.

 

Good point, in fact.

 

(Engaging in editing work, even for free, at the university level, just as an effective prophylaxis, seems worth the effort....maybe.  Editing 150-page MA theses, "MA feces", is very effective. )

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[bignok]

I like to agree like yeah like

[Gecko123]

Studying French grammar fills me with rapture.

[GammaGlobulin]

13 minutes ago, bignok said:

I like to agree like yeah like

Overusing the word LIKE is just the same as surrendering to the use of UPTALK.

It's the first step toward complete insanity.

 

 

[Captain Monday]

After a few weeks of baby talk English in Asia I have to check myself when going to US

Manners are also an issue

[Walker88]

(I read the title and assumed you were referring to another kind of verbal decline, so that is what my post is about)

 

What you write is a concern for you as you age, but of greater significance is how our species is losing many of its skills, and not only the ability to use language.

 

Some might argue language is dynamic, but the changes we have witnessed in the last few years in how language is used and how it has changed are less about dynamism and more about dumbness. Use it or lose it.

 

Like, you know, SMH.

 

I worry that we will lose the range and subtlety of our language, and of English in particular.  English is the richest of human languages. I once read that most languages have between 5,000 and 10,000 common words. German has 25,000. English has 85,000.

 

Think of the words "loquacious" and "garrulous". Or "interesting" and "scintillating". You, Gamma, know the difference and when to use which, even if you cannot explain it. Sadly, we've morphed into "I was like...wow, you know, I mean, yea".

 

How would you design a curriculum for a kid entering 1st grade today, since school is supposed to be a preparation for the student's emergence into the adult world? The world is changing so quickly, no school administrator can have a clue what will be needed.

 

Do you still teach penmanship? Cursive script? How about multiplication tables? Even typing might become unnecessary in a world where voice recognition systems will put speech into symbols. How will that impact our brains? Young people today have little concept of space, or "spatiality". They have no clue what a city looks like and cannot read a map. When they want to go to Point B from Point A, they just use GPS. I doubt most could find 2nd Ave if they were on 1st Ave in a grid-based city like NYC above Houston St. Maybe we will have to know so little that when age comes and our faculties begin to decline, we'll be declining from a significantly lower peak.

 

Your writing, while sometimes exhibiting a bit too much prolixity, is likely still infinitely better than an average college graduate today. If you are losing a little, you are still a quantum leap above those coming along to replace you.

 

That is of greater long term concern, though to our entire species, rather than any single person advancing into the death zone years.

[GammaGlobulin]

Here is one solution you might try, but not for the faint of heart:

 

Here in this country, there are many MA theses written by ESL-authors just crying out for not only editing but almost complete revision from the ground up.

 

A 150-page thesis edit written by an ESL-author in this country is a veritable minefield of unintelligible gibberish.

 

All sentences require not just simple editing, but also translation from jabberwocky into common English in order to introduce any semblance of coherence. One must also be a mind-reader.

 

Basically, one must just re-write the whole 150-page mess.

 

But, the fun does not end after the first complete edit and reworking is over.

 

The student, after defending her mess, will use cut-and-paste to completely rearrange the order of hundreds of paragraphs, while also adding hundreds of new pearls of wisdom.  But, she will not tell you what has changed.

 

Therefore, you must also be a Sherlock Holmes to ferret out all undocumented revisions she has made throughout the original 150 pages.

 

If one is to end up with a presentable product before publication, one must be willing to sink to the borderline of madness.

 

Is this experience worth it for the editor?

 

In my opinion, this laborious effort can help to stave off even more rapid decline in our aging brains.

 

Just be warned that this free help you offer will eat up much of your days for at least a 90-day stint.

 

You will grow hair on your chest.

 

But, when the madness ends, you can hold your head high, and your mind will be improved.

 

Try it, if you will.

 

You might like it, and then come back for a second bout of punishment, and even a third or fourth.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

A word of caution to readers here who might now be considering donating their time to helping an ESL-author edit her MA thesis for the purpose of slowing one's inevitable progress toward linguistic and cognitive decline:

 

Helping an MA student in this final challenge of her degree is not a joking matter.

 

You have her academic life in your hands, and you are the surgeon offering victory or doom.

 

You absolutely CANNOT back out and change horses halfway through the race. You must see the edit through to the bitter end, like a true gunga-din, though you may die by a thousand cuts in the process.

 

Also, even before the race begins, you will need to obtain approval from the headman of her village, the thesis advisor.  This will involve showing your academic credentials in the form of a CV, or something.  Therefore, it's always best to have some sort of advanced degree, like maybe an MA of your own, or even a PhD.

 

Likewise, it's good to have experience in the students topic, and therefore one should have spent time at university studying both the Social Sciences and the Natural Sciences, maybe some Environmental Sciences, and the like.

 

If you are the type of person who is slow to reach utter exasperation, then this is another important qualification.

 

In my humble opinion, an MA-thesis edit is worth its weight in gold if one seeks to avert overly-rapid waning in the "brain department".

 

But, again, so crucially, one must see the project to its final conclusion, the publishing of the final chapter.

 

Many MA students are on their way toward writing a PhD dissertation, eventually, probably within another few years.  And, you can even help her with her PhD thesis, too, if you live that long....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

wheew... 

[jvs]

Maybe yes and maybe no.

The older i get the less words i seem to need.

I am starting to mix up different languages and that is a little confusing sometimes.

Most English speaking people only speak one language,i think as you say if you read a lot or write(as you do) then it should be not much of a problem

On the positive side,my Thai is getting better all the time.

[GammaGlobulin]

In the Original Post, I asked the question:  "What's to be Done?"

 

And unlike in a minority of my other topics, I am trying to rigidly adhere to the original question.

 

And so, I have another warning for you old guys who are wannabe editors.

 

Give a consideration to the joints and muscles in your hands, because, you just might exacerbate any existing symptoms of arthritis that you are experiencing during long typing sessions.

 

I type about 65 words per minute on a good day. However, after 12 hours of solid typing for weeks on end, either my fingers become more limber, or they begin to ache.  Sometimes, I even experience shooting pains in my thumbs, although I have never been stricken with carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

Therefore, one must be confident that one's hands can go the distance, pounding away, day after day.

 

The student is, during the thesis writing process, full of anxiety, and you must also help her to stay relatively calm in an encouraging and supportive way.

 

You become even more important than her thesis advisor, IMHO.

 

Obviously, so much can go wrong for the conscientious editor.

 

And this remedy for our aging brains is a medicine only accessible to a very few of us.

 

Still, it's worth it if one is confident in one's abilities.

 

I have done over five full edits, and I have always sworn that the most recent edit has been my last.

 

I now believe that my editing days are behind me.

 

But you might be a more resilient editor than I, and you might be in need of some stimulation, especially if you are a high-sensation seeker.

 

Good luck if you are among the willing.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, jvs said:

Maybe yes and maybe no.

The older i get the less words i seem to need.

I am starting to mix up different languages and that is a little confusing sometimes.

Most English speaking people only speak one language,i think as you say if you read a lot or write(as you do) then it should be not much of a problem

On the positive side,my Thai is getting better all the time.

You are correct:

 

The linguistic term, I guess, for mixing up languages is.... INTERFERENCE

 

In other words, there is interference experienced by the learner when learning and speaking more than two languages.

 

If one's native language is English, and one is using an L2 and an L3 that one has learned, then there is often interference experienced between L2 and L3, so that, for example, when speaking Thai, often one's generated utterances will include both Chinese and Thai.  This is often annoying to the utterer, and most confusing to the listener.  For the listener, it sometimes seems as if the utterer is almost speaking in tongues.

 

How best to avoid this problem of interference between L2 and L3 is a mystery to me.

 

 

[jvs]

Certain words in different languages are the same or nearly the same.

That is the easy part,the rest is just hard to learn specially when we get older.

I find that when i travel a lot and use different languages very soon the confusion or interference seems to fade away.

I guess the term"use it or lose it "makes some sense here.

 

[proton]

I never speak to anyone here so not a problem ????

[GammaGlobulin]

How many of us would wish to establish the rate of decline of our verbal memory?

 

Of course, most of us would rather know than not know, maybe hoping that we might modify our behavior in order to slow the decline.

 

But then, should we not first take some test, now, in order to establish a baseline? And then, periodically, we could re-test, and just see if we are declining as fast as we might fear?

 

What test might be useful?

 

I am toying with the idea of taking The Logical Memory (LM) subtest. This is the most frequently administered subtest in the Wechsler Memory Scale, the 4th edition (WMS-IV).

 

I, like you, have taken the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) several times after reaching puberty, or almost puberty, as I first took this test when I was eleven, and I was sort of in the middle of becoming fully pubescent.

 

But, as far as I know, this Logical Memory (LM) subtest might just be the ticket, for me.

 

If you want a short blurb about this Memory Scale, then here is a link at ScienceDirect: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/wechsler-memory-scale   (This article is from 2010, but I guess it's still fairly valid, today.)

 

My only question, now that I have decided to establish my baseline, is....WHERE can I have this test administered reliably in my city, in Thailand?  I am now in the city overlooked by Doi Suthep.

 

It's good, too, 'cause....tests like this are far cheaper to pay for here in Thailand, than if I were getting the same test in Manhattan, I would imagine. 

 

My unbiased belief is that I am declining far more slowly than I would have expected.

 

Definitely, it would be a plus to take this test now, for baseline purposes, because...I really doubt that I will be able to score higher in coming years.

 

So...yes...I will take this Wechsler Memory Scale, 4th edition, first chance I have.

 

I have nothing to lose, and much to gain, through further insight into my aging process.

 

Aging is normal, but it sometimes feels to me...abnormal.

 

Not sure if you feel as I.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[stoner]

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have nothing to lose

keep telling yourself that and maybe it will eventually be true. 

 

may i ask how old you are ?

[GammaGlobulin]

35 minutes ago, stoner said:

keep telling yourself that and maybe it will eventually be true. 

 

may i ask how old you are ?

I think everybody here already knows my age; it's common knowledge.

 

Periodic testing using a more detailed test, such as the Wechsler, can be useful.  The test taken by Trump is a joke of a test, some say.

 

Certainly, we should offer such testing for free to US presidents, and all congressmembers.

 

Some of these guys, especially the prez, is living beyond my present year.

 

This is also what keeps me up at night.

 

What assurance do we have that he can even recall the nuclear codes in an emergency.

 

It's always best to test first, and elect afterwards...There is too much to lose if we do not.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[stoner]

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I think everybody here already knows my age; it's common knowledge.

i don't. so i asked.

 

but keep talking about trump for some reason. 

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, stoner said:

i don't. so i asked.

 

but keep talking about trump for some reason. 

I only referred to Trump, who famously and publicly bragged about the "cognitive-function test" he took, a few years ago, to prove the point that we need a better test for all American leaders...BEFORE...we go to the polls....Trump, Biden, etc., should all be thoroughly tested. Reagan should have been tested, for that matter.

 

And, I, too, should be tested, even if I do not plan to run in 2024.

 

We probably ALL should be tested, just for our own peace of mind, and maybe even for the possibility of treatment.

 

But then, nobody ever wants to talk about their losing their minds...except..maybe, for people like me.

 

  

[stoner]

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

I only referred to Trump, who famously and publicly bragged about the "cognitive-function test" he took, a few years ago, to prove the point that we need a better test for all American leaders...BEFORE...we go to the polls....Trump, Biden, etc., should all be thoroughly tested. Reagan should have been tested, for that matter.

 

And, I, too, should be tested, even if I do not plan to run in 2024.

 

We probably ALL should be tested, just for our own peace of mind, and maybe even for the possibility of treatment.

 

But then, nobody ever wants to talk about their losing their minds...except..maybe, for people like me.

 

  

you could of used to many other examples of the need for testing. the one you chose is very polar is all i'm getting at. 

 

i'm quite young compared to many a poster here so that's why i asked about your age. 

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, stoner said:

you could of used to many other examples of the need for testing. the one you chose is very polar is all i'm getting at. 

 

i'm quite young compared to many a poster here so that's why i asked about your age. 

septuagenarian 

[stoner]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

septuagenarian 

if you are really worried and have enough money why not look into modern treatment to help ? so many new things to help with aging out there all readily available here in thailand.....

 

rather liked this movie. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

11 minutes ago, stoner said:

if you are really worried and have enough money why not look into modern treatment to help ? so many new things to help with aging out there all readily available here in thailand.....

 

rather liked this movie. 

 

 

Rather than buying unproven treatments aimed at preventing cognitive decline, initially, I would prefer to just know the rate of my decline, and to be able to prognosticate some sort of endpoint for complete cognitive collapse, such as entering into a semi-advanced stage of dementia.

 

I am not the prez, and so I have no need to memorize the Gold Codes.

 

However, if I could gauge the rate of decline, and thereby predict the time of onset of significant cognitive dysfunction, then I could better plan the rest of my life much more productively.

 

I just want to know when, if there will be a when.

 

I feel no need to reverse the final outcome.

 

 

[save the frogs]

maybe we should incorporate more grunting into our daily speech. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

if you are really worried and have enough money why not look into modern treatment to help ? so many new things to help with aging out there all readily available here in thailand.....

 

rather liked this movie. 

 

 

Thank you for the suggestion, and I am downloading this film at over 50 Mbps, at this very moment.

 

I like films about genius, and about young people who have not yet stood the test of time, and who can still enjoy their 15 minutes of fame, minds relatively intact.

 

Please Note:  George Kennedy looked a bit better, and less the worse for wear, in the film Cool Hand Luke.

 

Please ALSO Note:  In the film, Cool Hand Luke, they all suffered a Failure to Communicate...  Which is, of course, the topic of this OP.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

Is it possible that regular administration of vitamin D3 might be beneficial in slowing the advance of cognitive decline, as well as memory-loss related diminished linguistic abilities?

 

One of the most recently-famous UTUBE personalities, a proponent of the benefits of D3, speaks to us again.

 

 

Thailand is a very sunny place.  However, most people stay indoors.  And, when they venture out into the hot sun, they wear protective clothing which limits exposure to vitamin-D producing UVB radiation. Some studies show that, even in Thailand, a significant number of the population may have reduced vitamin D serum levels. Please google these studies at your leisure.

 

Personally, since the virus first visited most of the world, I have been ingesting a conservative daily dose of vitamin D3. But, maybe that's just me. I don't go out in the noonday sun, much, à la Kipling.  So, I figure a vitamin D3 supplement cannot hurt.  And, to counteract any resultant bone loss, I take a bit of K2, as well.

 

I never take megadoses of anything.

 

I have done a bit of research on vitamin D3, and I like what I have read

But, that's just me.

 

I am no vitamin supplement freak.  However, multivitamins, such as Centrum Silver (not the formula by this name offered in Thailand, I think) seems to be OK. And, I add one Centrum pill, which is quite large, and not so easy to swallow, though not as big as a horse pill.

 

For me, I see no downside to this low-cost regimen.

 

So far, my memory has only deteriorated slightly during the past three years of lockdowns and self-imposed isolation.

 

I will continue to read more about the affects of D3 in future published research.

I find this research interesting.

 

 

[Lacessit]

13 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Is it age alone that causes this, or is it also aggravated by living for decades in countries where English isn't the main language and often dumbing down our speech to ensure that we are understood?

I have made every effort to learn Thai, because mental exercise is one of the most recommended ways of warding off Alzheimers.