Antarctic sea ice at record low for end of June, warns Met Office

[onthedarkside]

 

"At the end of June, the extent of sea ice should be building to a mid-point between the maximum and the minimum.

 

"However, this year the ice is expanding very slowly with the consequence that the extent is way below the long-term (1981-2010) average.

"The annual minimum extent in February 2023 was the lowest since satellite records began in 1979, just over one million sq km below the long-term average.

 

"The current extent is extraordinarily low: it is in excess of 2.5 million sq km (965,255 sq miles) below average for the time of year."

 

READ MORE

https://news.sky.com/story/antarctic-sea-ice-at-record-low-for-end-of-june-warns-met-office-12912329

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Antarctic sea ice has varied as long as people have been going there. Shackleton lost his ship because the sea ice was worse than normal the year he tried to cross Antactica, also Scott had worse weather than normal when he died returning from the pole.

 

Doesn't really matter how much sea ice there is, as it makes no difference to sea level, but if the ice shelves all collapsed, we might be in trouble.

[placeholder]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Antarctic sea ice has varied as long as people have been going there. Shackleton lost his ship because the sea ice was worse than normal the year he tried to cross Antactica, also Scott had worse weather than normal when he died returning from the pole.

 

Doesn't really matter how much sea ice there is, as it makes no difference to sea level, but if the ice shelves all collapsed, we might be in trouble.

Actually, it does matter how much ice there is. Ice is very reflective and sends back most solar radiation into the atmosphere. Sea water is not very reflective and will absorb most of the infrared radiation that strikes it. Warmer seas mean, among other things rising sea levels and faster melting of the ice shelf.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually, it does matter how much ice there is. Ice is very reflective and sends back most solar radiation into the atmosphere. Sea water is not very reflective and will absorb most of the infrared radiation that strikes it. Warmer seas mean, among other things rising sea levels and faster melting of the ice shelf.

Given the air temperature around Antarctica I wouldn't be stressing about solar radiation too much. Any warming is, IMO, likely to come from sea currents.

 

https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/antarctica environment/climate_weather.php

Continental Low Latitude Coast:

Coastal areas approx. 65°S - 70°S

Cold winters and short cold summers, approx. +2°C to -20°C monthly averages

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the air temperature around Antarctica I wouldn't be stressing about solar radiation too much. Any warming is, IMO, likely to come from sea currents.

 

https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/antarctica environment/climate_weather.php

Continental Low Latitude Coast:

Coastal areas approx. 65°S - 70°S

Cold winters and short cold summers, approx. +2°C to -20°C monthly averages

Maybe you should share your thoughts with the NOAA. It seems they disagree with you:

 

How does sea ice affect global climate?

"While sea ice exists primarily in the polar regions, it influences the global climate. The bright surface of sea ice reflects a lot of sunlight out into the atmosphere and, importantly, back into space. Because this solar energy "bounces back" and is not absorbed into the ocean, temperatures nearer the poles remain cool relative to the equator."

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sea-ice-climate.html#:~:text=When warming temperatures gradually melt,cycle of warming and melting.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you should share your thoughts with the NOAA. It seems they disagree with you:

 

How does sea ice affect global climate?

"While sea ice exists primarily in the polar regions, it influences the global climate. The bright surface of sea ice reflects a lot of sunlight out into the atmosphere and, importantly, back into space. Because this solar energy "bounces back" and is not absorbed into the ocean, temperatures nearer the poles remain cool relative to the equator."

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sea-ice-climate.html#:~:text=When warming temperatures gradually melt,cycle of warming and melting.

 

 

and I disagree with you on almost everything.

This is a forum for opinions, not a NOAA conference.

Perhaps stop trying to score points against me and lighten up.

[sirineou]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Antarctic sea ice has varied as long as people have been going there.

I guess you missed the title of the article :

"Antarctic sea ice at record low for end of June, warns Met Office "

You do know what "record" means right? 

[placeholder]

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and I disagree with you on almost everything.

This is a forum for opinions, not a NOAA conference.

Perhaps stop trying to score points against me and lighten up.

You're not just disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with settled science. And not even climate science but basic physics. It's not a matter of scoring points against you. If you write something that is patently false, I will point it out.

This is from the landing page of the World News Forum:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

I am prepared to back up all my assertions with links to approved credible sources. Are you?

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I guess you missed the title of the article :

"Antarctic sea ice at record low for end of June, warns Met Office "

You do know what "record" means right? 

I guess you missed my response to the title where I said ( words to the effect of ) it's not worth getting stressed about, IMO.

 

Next.

[sirineou]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I guess you missed my response to the title where I said ( words to the effect of ) it's not worth getting stressed about, IMO.

 

Next.

Very stressed over it. I sold my Fl home last year, was talking with my sister in FL yesterday , Her insurance premiums more than tripled  , and many major insurance companies are pulling out of FL, last week AAA pulled out. so there might be a time soon where you would not be able to even find someone to insure you at some point.  No bank will give you a mortgage without insurance.  

Me and you cold argue about the issue until we turn blued in the face, but if you really want to know what is happening all you have to do is look at what the insurance companies are doing. They have experts that consider the situation and associated risks. 

There is record ice loss. Not something that periodically happens,some places they are predicting 50 degree weather. This is not normal, but if we don't do something it's about to become  normal in some places. .  

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by sirineou

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

This is not normal, but if we don't do something it's about to become  normal in some places. .  

Ah, the weak point! As of now, not much actually being done, despite many hot air conferences, pledges that are not kept, problems with windmills and electric cars, and the weather still keeps changing.

 

The real sticking point is that governments probably know that if they actually did something that might make a difference, taxes would have to go up and they might be unemployed next election.

To be implemented, has to be affordable, effective and acceptable.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, the weak point! As of now, not much actually being done, despite many hot air conferences, pledges that are not kept, problems with windmills and electric cars, and the weather still keeps changing.

 

The real sticking point is that governments probably know that if they actually did something that might make a difference, taxes would have to go up and they might be unemployed next election.

To be implemented, has to be affordable, effective and acceptable.

But there is the rubb , One way or another we will pay for it. 

"Climate change impacts our economy, health, well-being, security, and quality of life. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the cost of climate and weather disasters in the United States last year totaled more than $165 billion—the third most costly year on record. "

Me and you are paying this directly or indirectly , and some of us will pay for it with our lives. 

Directly as I said before by higher insurance premiums (only one example ), Indirectly from higher prices, as associated costs are added into the means of production. 

But I agree with you, not only the political will is not there, But there aother players who use it as a wedge issue to enrich themselves. And  a large percentage of the population is supporting them.

If that's not the , cattle cheering for the butcher on their way to the slaughterhouse I don't know what is. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:23 PM, sirineou said:

If that's not the , cattle cheering for the butcher on their way to the slaughterhouse I don't know what is. 

IMO the lower demographic of population has always been exploited by the rich. See the sheeple lining up to buy the latest ***** brand phone at a vastly inflated price, when the phone they already have will still do the job for years to come. My mobile phone is over 20 years old.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My mobile phone is over 20 years old.

No banking on your phone then.

The world is moving to phone banking.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No banking on your phone then.

The world is moving to phone banking.

I refuse to do phone banking, and hope to be dead before they eliminate real money.

 

I have no desire whatsoever to live in a world where the banks and the government control the people like they apparently do in China.

Edited July 24, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[BritManToo]

On 7/20/2023 at 1:23 PM, sirineou said:

"Climate change impacts our economy, health, well-being, security, and quality of life. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the cost of climate and weather disasters in the United States last year totaled more than $165 billion—the third most costly year on record. "

Me and you are paying this directly or indirectly , and some of us will pay for it with our lives. 

Directly as I said before by higher insurance premiums (only one example ), Indirectly from higher prices, as associated costs are added into the means of production. 

So don't build or live in flood areas, fire areas,  and don't buy insurance.

This is common sense.

 

PS.

IPCC report AR6 dated 2022 states there is only a moderate risk (1 in 4) of coastal flooding in the next 77 years.

Edited July 24, 2023 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

So don't build or live in flood areas, fire areas,  and don't buy insurance.

This is common sense.

I expect that shortly ( in a few years ) insurance will be unobtainable for housing built on river banks, flood plains, coastal areas or fire zones.

I'm only surprised it's still available.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I expect that shortly ( in a few years ) insurance will be unobtainable for housing built on river banks, flood plains, coastal areas or fire zones.

I'm only surprised it's still available.

I'd buy a beach house if they were cheaper.

Risk of flooding doesn't seem to worry Bill Gates or Barak Obama, and they probably have better information than us.

[sirineou]

Just now, BritManToo said:

So don't build or live in flood areas, fire areas,  and don't buy insurance.

This is common sense.

Isn't it a bit early to be drinking?????

 

"Presently about 40% of the world's population lives within 100 kilometers of the coast "

https://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/natlinfo/indicators/methodology_sheets/oceans_seas_coasts/pop_coastal_areas.pdf

You Would have them all move? or would it be "common sense" to combat global warming? 

Don't buy insurance? You do know that no bank will give you a mortgage without insurance right. 

"According to the US Census, the total percentage of homeowners mortgage in the US is 64.8%  "

https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/mortgage-statistics/#:~:text=According to the US Census,in the US is 64.8%&text=Most buyers need a mortgage,a sudden change in circumstances.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I'd buy a beach house if they were cheaper.

Risk of flooding doesn't seem to worry Bill Gates or Barak Obama, and they probably have better information than us.

I never said we wouldn't be able to build a house in a risky area. I just said it probably wouldn't be possible to get insurance.

I'd live by a beach if I could.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You Would have them all move? or would it be "common sense" to combat global warming? 

Don't buy insurance? You do know that no bank will give you a mortgage without insurance right. 

I'm not sure global warming  

1. is caused by human activity

2. is undesirable.

3. can be changed by human activity 

 

If I were the government, I'd prefer to spend money on housing the homeless than paying billions to carbon traders. Anyway IPCC doesn't seem to think sea level rises are a significant risk.

 

I'm hoping Natwest/Coutts aren't going to cancel my bank account for this post.

I don't really believe in insurance either, beyond government regulations.

I have minimum insurance on vehicles, no house insurance (beyond mortgage requirement), no health insurance.

 

As for drinking, first wine cooler of the day already half finished.

 

By the way I live in a home mainly powered by solar cells (PEA bill usually around 200bht), and drive a Honda Click 160i (53Km/ltr) which I'm guessing is far beyond any conservation you do.

Edited July 24, 2023 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Isn't it a bit early to be drinking?????

 

"Presently about 40% of the world's population lives within 100 kilometers of the coast "

https://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/natlinfo/indicators/methodology_sheets/oceans_seas_coasts/pop_coastal_areas.pdf

You Would have them all move? or would it be "common sense" to combat global warming? 

Don't buy insurance? You do know that no bank will give you a mortgage without insurance right. 

"According to the US Census, the total percentage of homeowners mortgage in the US is 64.8%  "

https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/mortgage-statistics/#:~:text=According to the US Census,in the US is 64.8%&text=Most buyers need a mortgage,a sudden change in circumstances.

 

You Would have them all move? or would it be "common sense" to combat global warming? 

 

Given the end of life as we knew it has already arrived, do you think it's possible to alter climate now?

I don't. IMO it's just going to get worse, no matter how many taxes we pay to "do something", which is currently unknown, as I haven't seen anything that is affordable, effective and acceptable.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure global warming  

1. is caused by human activity

2. is undesirable.

3. can be changed by human activity 

 

I'm hoping Natwest/Coutts aren't going to cancel my bank account for this post.

I don't really believe in insurance either, beyond government regulations.

I have minimum insurance on vehicles, no house insurance (beyond mortgage requirement), no health insurance

Agree 100% on 1,2 and 3, except I don't think anything we try to do will make the slightest bit of difference when humanity is reproducing at such a great rate.

IMO if the population had stabilised at 3 billion we wouldn't be facing any crisis now.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the end of life as we knew it has already arrived, do you think it's possible to alter climate now?

I don't.

There are those who disagree with you. 

[bignok]

On 7/20/2023 at 10:39 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

and I disagree with you on almost everything.

This is a forum for opinions, not a NOAA conference.

Perhaps stop trying to score points against me and lighten up.

Temps havent changed much at all in 20 years despite the hype. Actually cold today.

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure global warming  

1. is caused by human activity

2. is undesirable.

3. can be changed by human activity 

Again there are those , and the preponderance of evidence that would disagree with you. But you are entitled to your opinion. 

Of course it is also possible that all this rising water will run of the edge of the world and the problem will solve itself.  ????

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

Temps havent changed much at all in 20 years despite the hype. Actually cold today.

So you think record temperatures were always happening? Do you kn ow what the word "Record" means? 

You do understand the difference between weather and climate . Right? 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Again there are those , and the preponderance of evidence that would disagree with you. But you are entitled to your opinion. 

Of course it is also possible that all this rising water will run of the edge of the world and the problem will solve itself.  ????

And your personal home and transport consumption?

I'm betting electricity 3,000bht+ and you're driving a Fortuna (or other gas guzzler).

Climate change alarmists are always hypocrites! 

And always want someone else to pay for their beliefs.

Edited July 24, 2023 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

There are those who disagree with you. 

Of course, but some do agree with me.

Edited July 24, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

So you think record temperatures were always happening? Do you kn ow what the word "Record" means? 

You do understand the difference between weather and climate . Right? 

Planet used to be way hotter.

The only problem will be for those that think nothing should change.

 

Personally I'd be happy if temperatures were warmer where I live. Being cold sucks.

Edited July 24, 2023 by thaibeachlovers