Relocating a structure using a crane or other method

[kuma]

Good day

Has any of the community had any experience with picking up an existing building and moving it to a new location? Using a crane or other method? I have seen many videos of this being done in other countries but can not find an example here.

We have an existing structure, 6m x 7m building, sitting on 1 m high pillars. I would like to move that building about 14-20m from where it is to a new spot in the yard.

To me, it should be feasible to cut the pillars and use a crane, or other rolling method, to move the building intact to the new spot.

Has anyone heard of or seen this done in Thailand?

The building is, as mentioned, 6m x 7m and is made of Qconn 7.5cm so it is lightweight and I think should move easily - probably one crane could do it, but looking for comments from the community.

Cheers

[brianthainess]

See how the Amish community move theirs on YouTube.

Seriously though I would be worried of it folding up, if you can find a good crane operator and most important a good rigger then yes possible with a crane, You say Qconn do you mean light weight blocks? if so disregard my post 

[kuma]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

See how the Amish community move theirs on YouTube.

Seriously though I would be worried of it folding up, if you can find a good crane operator and most important a good rigger then yes possible with a crane, You say Qconn do you mean light weight blocks? if so disregard my post 

Yes the QConn blocks. But the foundation (raised) and the support pillars are all concrete so to me if you slide four steel beams (or more) under the base of the structure, then a crane could attach to those and lift it ever so slightly (it is already sitting on raised pillars) and just swing the crane to the new location. - if positioned properly the crane would not even have to move.....just swing. I think anyway, lol. I am not a structural engineer but i have seen this a lot on construction sites in other jurisdictions....indeed there are three cranes lifting and positioning a huge roof structure right near my house today...I may go and try to ask them...hope the Thai is enough to get by

[sometimewoodworker]

43 minutes ago, kuma said:

Good day

Has any of the community had any experience with picking up an existing building and moving it to a new location? Using a crane or other method? I have seen many videos of this being done in other countries but can not find an example here.

We have an existing structure, 6m x 7m building, sitting on 1 m high pillars. I would like to move that building about 14-20m from where it is to a new spot in the yard.

To me, it should be feasible to cut the pillars and use a crane, or other rolling method, to move the building intact to the new spot.

Has anyone heard of or seen this done in Thailand?

The building is, as mentioned, 6m x 7m and is made of Qconn 7.5cm so it is lightweight and I think should move easily - probably one crane could do it, but looking for comments from the community.

Cheers

Not with a crane but with chain hoists on every support pillar. It is a traditional Thai house so rather lighter than your AAC structure and the fact that the only floor was at first floor level meant that there was plenty of lift available, your 1 metre high pillars will probably mean that this method won’t work
 

About 10 ~ 15 years ago I watched as a house was moved from the back of a building plot to the front. So the locals know how to move a building, it gives a whole new meaning to “moving house” doesn’t it?

 

There is also a couple of companies that build small houses near to Khon Kaen (these are not the tiny wood ones) these must be transported to the site they are destined for, so if they are picked up by crane or some version of a fork lift they are certainly lifted onto a vehicle. This means that the technology and expertise is available in Thailand, you just need to find it.

 

[brianthainess]

32 minutes ago, kuma said:

Yes the QConn blocks. But the foundation (raised) and the support pillars are all concrete so to me if you slide four steel beams (or more) under the base of the structure, then a crane could attach to those and lift it ever so slightly (it is already sitting on raised pillars) and just swing the crane to the new location. - if positioned properly the crane would not even have to move.....just swing. I think anyway, lol. I am not a structural engineer but i have seen this a lot on construction sites in other jurisdictions....indeed there are three cranes lifting and positioning a huge roof structure right near my house today...I may go and try to ask them...hope the Thai is enough to get by

Depends on size/weight load of crane, it could be just 'boomed' out, a cranes load , say 6ton is only a direct lift boom right in. I was also thinking fork lifts or even a large backhoe* on tracks, known *for some reason here only know to them is called a Macro ???? using skids of some sort as you suggest.

[steven100]

[steven100]

[kuma]

Thx for the responses. I did stop by a site on my way home, they had three cranes at work hoisting up a steel roof that had been assembled on the ground. Talked to one operator and he said they sure can do it, need to get their planner out to see the ingress and assess the house and from/to so they know which crane to deploy, see photo of ones they were using today.

So I am going to see what the cost will be and if it is worth it - have done this sort of thing when working but never had a chance to have it done personally, so if it is reasonable in terms of cost and risk, think I will have a go.

Cheers

[steven100]

what Kuma  ' .....   you didn't like my crane .      Lol

[sirineou]

15 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

About 10 ~ 15 years ago I watched as a house was moved from the back of a building plot to the front.

Yea but was it a wood house (much more flexible) or was it a concrete house?

IMO, 

For concrete buildings, difficult in the west, impossible in Thailand, Unless of course you wanted to spend much more doing it than the building is worth.

There are so many issues, 

First the weight,

Second the rigidity of the stricture

Third the brittle nature of the material.

We all have seen what a few inches of settling does to a concrete building. can you imagine what would happen moving it 14-20 meters

IMO you would definitely be moving it 14-20 meters , some of it at 14m. some of it at 20m, but most of it on the way there.????

 

[JBChiangRai]

This is a recipe for disaster.

 

Never try and do anything unusual (especially involving a building in Thailand), it will be FUBAR'd.

[brianthainess]

7 hours ago, kuma said:

Thx for the responses. I did stop by a site on my way home, they had three cranes at work hoisting up a steel roof that had been assembled on the ground. Talked to one operator and he said they sure can do it, need to get their planner out to see the ingress and assess the house and from/to so they know which crane to deploy, see photo of ones they were using today.

So I am going to see what the cost will be and if it is worth it - have done this sort of thing when working but never had a chance to have it done personally, so if it is reasonable in terms of cost and risk, think I will have a go.

Cheers

    ????  My last job in WA OZ was a crane (technician) mechanic working on just this type of crane, the most interesting job I ever had. just saying.

[farmerjo]

If using a crane you would most likely need spreader bars to lift the structure.

[kuma]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

what Kuma  ' .....   you didn't like my crane .      Lol

Lol the overhead straddle was too much, obviously not for this job. Funny story I worked a factory build here and a few overhead straddles were installed. They then tried one - moving a die iirc, and the beams buckled and it collapsed onto the brand new shop floor and caused a lot of damage to other brand new equipment all installed and tested - not to mention the structural damage. Lol the project manager, no clue and that just became the norm thru much of the ranks and they paid for it. Luckily there were no casualties.

Hoping that if I try this I can manage a smoother outcome, haha

 

[kuma]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

Yea but was it a wood house (much more flexible) or was it a concrete house?

IMO, 

For concrete buildings, difficult in the west, impossible in Thailand, Unless of course you wanted to spend much more doing it than the building is worth.

There are so many issues, 

First the weight,

Second the rigidity of the stricture

Third the brittle nature of the material.

We all have seen what a few inches of settling does to a concrete building. can you imagine what would happen moving it 14-20 meters

IMO you would definitely be moving it 14-20 meters , some of it at 14m. some of it at 20m, but most of it on the way there.????

 

Very good points, thx for the feedback - and yea that will be part of the process here - as mentioned above - assess the risk. I am collecting and continue to ponder. As part of the DM I want to see them in action  moving a rigid structure. That roof you see in the photo they assembled, including all welds, on the ground and then hoisted it and positioned it on the pillars that are in the photo. TBF it is rigid, although with more give than a Qconn/cement building I guess - but all the welds were done so..... They needed three cranes due to the large footprint - the weight overall is very likely more than this building I want to move. They can obviously maneuver quite well also as the three of them coordinated to place it in a very exact spot. I was impressed anyway.

Lmao on the 14-20m visual.????

[kuma]

5 hours ago, brianthainess said:

    ????  My last job in WA OZ was a crane (technician) mechanic working on just this type of crane, the most interesting job I ever had. just saying.

Is there still a memorial to Bon Scott there in WA? That would have been something, hoisting that up. O

[kuma]

5 hours ago, farmerjo said:

If using a crane you would most likely need spreader bars to lift the structure.

I replied to this but session timed out when I pressed send, so maybe another one coming, if so oh well.

Spreader bars are the thing it looks like, thanks. That was a funny set of search results, lol.

I am thinking bars extended out of all four sides, ten strap points in total? the crane can position itself easily so it does not have to move, just pluck and swing the boom to the new location. The building now rests on 9 cement pillars, cut thru them and swing it over to a new set of nine pillars...but I wonder if putting it on solid ground would be better than keeping it raised? Could build a solid pad for it and keep it 100% grounded.....hmmm

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, kuma said:

Very good points, thx for the feedback - and yea that will be part of the process here - as mentioned above - assess the risk. I am collecting and continue to ponder. As part of the DM I want to see them in action  moving a rigid structure. That roof you see in the photo they assembled, including all welds, on the ground and then hoisted it and positioned it on the pillars that are in the photo. TBF it is rigid, although with more give than a Qconn/cement building I guess - but all the welds were done so..... They needed three cranes due to the large footprint - the weight overall is very likely more than this building I want to move. They can obviously maneuver quite well also as the three of them coordinated to place it in a very exact spot. I was impressed anyway.

Lmao on the 14-20m visual.????

Can you post a picture of the structure you want to move? 

Below I will try to explain the challenges of moving a concrete , column and beam structure, I hope I explain more than I confuse,

The crane you show in the picture has certain limitations.

Notice the outriggers. They extend on the sides and lower to the ground to stabilize the rig.  . It can not move while it is lifting. . The wheels on it are there only to drive it to the job site, It does not drive while it is lifting, unless it is a very light load. .The way these cranes move things is by rotating , changing the angle of the boom , and extending the boom.

Rotating is problematic if more than one cranes are attached to the load, 

 changing the angle and or the length of the boom , can only occurs with in the Center of Gravity  (CG)range for that particular weight. 

   A steel structure can handle loads at different vectors . Compression, tension  ,torsion, and shear, A concrete structure   has relatively high compressive strength (resists breaking, when squeezed), but significantly lower tensile ,  Shear and torsional strength.

  So , If more than one cranes are used in moving a concrete beam and column structure and the limitations in motion are overcome we are still faced with the stability of the load while it is being moved.

 It must be kept perfectly level to maintain compresion (straight of concrete) and limit tension, shear and torsion (weaknesses), a difficult proposition while  coordinating multiple cranes over rough ground.  

[brianthainess]

Yes a Photo would help, and what about a guesstimate on the weight? 

[steven100]

15 hours ago, kuma said:

Thx for the responses. I did stop by a site on my way home, they had three cranes at work hoisting up a steel roof that had been assembled on the ground. Talked to one operator and he said they sure can do it, need to get their planner out to see the ingress and assess the house and from/to so they know which crane to deploy, see photo of ones they were using today.

So I am going to see what the cost will be and if it is worth it - have done this sort of thing when working but never had a chance to have it done personally, so if it is reasonable in terms of cost and risk, think I will have a go.

Cheers

kuma,  I'm not an engineer by no means,   but as a construction guy in towers,  the first thing I thought when I seen your crane is that it won't be able to re-locate a concrete block building,   just saying what i think,  and as sirineou has mentioned ....       to me it just doesn't look heavy enough .....   IMHO.

[Crossy]

It's certainly worth getting a guesstimate to move the place, but I suspect it would be cheaper to just build a new one.

 

https://www.sanantoniouncovered.com/2014/01/san-antonio-sets-world-record-largest.html

 

 

[brianthainess]

24 minutes ago, steven100 said:

kuma,  I'm not an engineer by no means,   but as a construction guy in towers,  the first thing I thought when I seen your crane is that it won't be able to re-locate a concrete block building,   just saying what i think,  and as sirineou has mentioned ....       to me it just doesn't look heavy enough .....   IMHO.

IMO that looks like a 42+ ton lift crane the same as i worked on. I have also worked on one that size that was a 400ton lift, it took 2 extra trucks to transport the counter weights and add on booms for long reach jobs. Calculating the lift is the crane operators job.

[steven100]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It's certainly worth getting a guesstimate to move the place, but I suspect it would be cheaper to just build a new one

i was thinking exactly the same,  it's cheap to build a 42sqm block building here.  To move it may cost alot more.

[steven100]

4 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

IMO that looks like a 42+ ton lift crane the same as i worked on. I have also worked on one that size that was a 400ton lift, it took 2 extra trucks to transport the counter weights and add on booms for long reach jobs. Calculating the lift is the crane operators job.

It looks to me that that crane is only 30T ......   i may need correcting, but I think it's a 30Ton

[brianthainess]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

It looks to me that that crane is only 30T ......   i may need correcting, but I think it's a 30Ton

From my experience/memory the 30 ton crane only has two front wheels not 4.

[kuma]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:40 PM, sirineou said:

Can you post a picture of the structure you want to move? 

Below I will try to explain the challenges of moving a concrete , column and beam structure, I hope I explain more than I confuse,

The crane you show in the picture has certain limitations.

Notice the outriggers. They extend on the sides and lower to the ground to stabilize the rig.  . It can not move while it is lifting. . The wheels on it are there only to drive it to the job site, It does not drive while it is lifting, unless it is a very light load. .The way these cranes move things is by rotating , changing the angle of the boom , and extending the boom.

Rotating is problematic if more than one cranes are attached to the load, 

 changing the angle and or the length of the boom , can only occurs with in the Center of Gravity  (CG)range for that particular weight. 

   A steel structure can handle loads at different vectors . Compression, tension  ,torsion, and shear, A concrete structure   has relatively high compressive strength (resists breaking, when squeezed), but significantly lower tensile ,  Shear and torsional strength.

  So , If more than one cranes are used in moving a concrete beam and column structure and the limitations in motion are overcome we are still faced with the stability of the load while it is being moved.

 It must be kept perfectly level to maintain compresion (straight of concrete) and limit tension, shear and torsion (weaknesses), a difficult proposition while  coordinating multiple cranes over rough ground.  

Excellent feedback, thanks very much for sharing your knowledge - lots to learn from your post. The site I visited them at they were using three cranes to lift and place a steel truss roof, probably 30m x 20m or more....so it was a big piece and they used three cranes at once. Very impressive coordination. This structure is mauch smaller and much less weight, the idea would be one crane, moving t forward from where it stands, about 9m ahead. FOr sure if there is a crane that can do it, it will not have to move - I have the space and they would only have to lift it enough to clear the pillars it sits on, then slide it forward those few metres.

I will certainly take all this you mention into consideration when speaking with them, I know they will be keen to get the work and likely confident in their skills...I am keen to do, but only if it has a high probability of success, i do not want to pay to have a wrecked structure when it is all said and done.

So one crane, limited distance and placed on new pillars so not have to place it on the ground.

Cheers for that great input!

[kuma]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:40 PM, sirineou said:

Can you post a picture of the structure you want to move? 

Below I will try to explain the challenges of moving a concrete , column and beam structure, I hope I explain more than I confuse,

The crane you show in the picture has certain limitations.

Notice the outriggers. They extend on the sides and lower to the ground to stabilize the rig.  . It can not move while it is lifting. . The wheels on it are there only to drive it to the job site, It does not drive while it is lifting, unless it is a very light load. .The way these cranes move things is by rotating , changing the angle of the boom , and extending the boom.

Rotating is problematic if more than one cranes are attached to the load, 

 changing the angle and or the length of the boom , can only occurs with in the Center of Gravity  (CG)range for that particular weight. 

   A steel structure can handle loads at different vectors . Compression, tension  ,torsion, and shear, A concrete structure   has relatively high compressive strength (resists breaking, when squeezed), but significantly lower tensile ,  Shear and torsional strength.

  So , If more than one cranes are used in moving a concrete beam and column structure and the limitations in motion are overcome we are still faced with the stability of the load while it is being moved.

 It must be kept perfectly level to maintain compresion (straight of concrete) and limit tension, shear and torsion (weaknesses), a difficult proposition while  coordinating multiple cranes over rough ground.  

 

[kuma]

Just now, kuma said:

 

Here is a photo of it under construction. It is QConn 7.5cm and 6x7m so not a big structure by any means and not heavy. Given it is on pillars, it should be a matter of cutting those and then sliding it forward to the new position about 9m away....basically almost exactly straight ahead. Should only have to be lifted 10- 20 or so cm?

[kuma]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:25 PM, brianthainess said:

Yes a Photo would help, and what about a guesstimate on the weight? 

Photo now included. I do not have a good idea of the total weight, but almost as light as it can get for something that size made of blocks, as they are QConn (lightweight) and even the roof is metal so not heavy at all, in a relative sense.

[kuma]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:27 PM, steven100 said:

kuma,  I'm not an engineer by no means,   but as a construction guy in towers,  the first thing I thought when I seen your crane is that it won't be able to re-locate a concrete block building,   just saying what i think,  and as sirineou has mentioned ....       to me it just doesn't look heavy enough .....   IMHO.

Thanks for that. I saw this group on site hoisting that roof that was in the photo. I asked if they could move a structure like mine and the operator said yes, but their surveyor would have to come out and assess the move and decide what crane to use - they have a fleet of choices, not just that one. So after collecting more intel, if it seems like a possibility, I will have them out to take a look and see what they say.

Cheers