Legacy admissions: Harvard accused of favouring mostly white students

[Social Media]

 

Harvard's practice of granting preference to undergraduate applicants with family ties to the elite college is facing a legal challenge.

Advocacy groups have petitioned the government to stop the Ivy League university's legacy admissions.

The policy has long been seen as a perk for the white and wealthy.

The federal complaint comes days after the Supreme Court ruled Harvard and other US colleges could no longer weigh race as a key factor in admissions.

In a landmark decision on Thursday, the nation's highest court voted 6-3 to repeal affirmative action, a decades-old measure.

Affirmative action has long been defended as a policy useful for increasing diversity on university campuses, but Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in his majority opinion that the process used by Harvard and others "picks winners and losers based on the color of their skin".

 

FULL STORY

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

Interesting how Asian students are being ignored in this settlement. Fact is that elite schools discriminated against Asians, using bigotry like assuming they were all boring and so would not make the school diverse enough. In reality, at Harvard for example it amounted to a huge gap. Asian students needed a 1360 score on the SAT to get in to Harvard, black students only 1100. 

Merit is the only way admissions should be decided. Legacys, sports admissions, should be capped or eliminated. The rest, merit or nothing.  Admitting academically challenged students who are destined to flunk out does them no favours.

[EVENKEEL]

Why is Harvard the only university we hear about on these issues? Of course life isn't fair, but at least now admissions will be based on merit and not race. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

Why is Harvard the only university we hear about on these issues? Of course life isn't fair, but at least now admissions will be based on merit and not race. 

Harvard University says it may still consider race in its admissions process despite the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action in higher education, maintaining in a statement that the decision allows schools to consider an applicant's racial background, among other factors.

https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-says-it-may-still-consider-race-during-the-admissions-process-2023-7

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Harvard University says it may still consider race in its admissions process despite the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action in higher education, maintaining in a statement that the decision allows schools to consider an applicant's racial background, among other factors.

https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-says-it-may-still-consider-race-during-the-admissions-process-2023-7

Yes, because the only way to eliminate racism is to be racist...

 

Anyway, interestingly a large percentage of black students at Harvard aren't even ADOS (American Descendants of Slavery). They are immigrants from the Caribbean or Africa, who have only been in the US for a generation or two. Hardly the victims of generations of American racism. 

 

https://thegrio.com/2011/04/21/harvard-has-more-black-students-than-ever-but-are-they-african-american/

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Yes, because the only way to eliminate racism is to be racist...

 

Anyway, interestingly a large percentage of black students at Harvard aren't even ADOS (American Descendants of Slavery). They are immigrants from the Caribbean or Africa, who have only been in the US for a generation or two. Hardly the victims of generations of American racism. 

 

https://thegrio.com/2011/04/21/harvard-has-more-black-students-than-ever-but-are-they-african-american/

If "you say so", I'm not making a judgment as I've not studied the acceptance procedures enough. I was pointing out to the poster I responded to what Harvard said

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If "you say so", I'm not making a judgment as I've not studied the acceptance procedures enough. I was pointing out to the poster I responded to what Harvard said

No problem. I am also curious if they will be so eager to go after the legacy and donor class. Which would be akin to killing their financing.  Still, Harvard already has some $53 billion in its endowment, it could survive for a few years before resorting to food stamps and stale Kraft mac and cheese. 

[John Drake]

I think the children of faculty and administrators are also considered legacies.  And that is a chunk of the enrollment that is simply going to mushroom. They'll also be disproportionately non-White. It used to be that faculty and secretarial work at private universities were relatively low paid, if not underpaid, jobs. These sort of perquisites made sense then. They don't now, in an age especially when admins are more numerous than faculty. Interesting little piece in the Harvard Crimson about it: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/29/anderson-bureaucratic-bloat-harvard/

[ignore it]

The only real affirmative action is to work your butt off.  

[Berkshire]

6 hours ago, Social Media said:

Advocacy groups have petitioned the government to stop the Ivy League university's legacy admissions.

The policy has long been seen as a perk for the white and wealthy.

Perhaps Harvard knew that their policy regarding legacy admissions was racist in favor of whites and tried to compensate with affirmative action.  Well now, only the legacy admissions remain.  Hmmmm....

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Why is Harvard the only university we hear about on these issues? Of course life isn't fair, but at least now admissions will be based on merit and not race. 

You did read the OP?

[heybruce]

The title is wrong.  Harvard favors students with rich, generous parents.  As do many other "elite" universities.  If you want your non-white child in these universities you better start writing the checks.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

The title is wrong.  Harvard favors students with rich, generous parents.  As do many other "elite" universities.  If you want your non-white child in these universities you better start writing the checks.

I confess, I gave a sigh of relief when my kids ignored being pointed at the Ivy League and chose instead to opt for Russel Group and LERU.

 

Ivy League might give a young person a great head start, but it far too often comes at a ridiculously exorbitant cost to their parents.

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You did read the OP?

Yes mommy, I did. All by myself.

 

The Harvard costs for a four-year degree, including books, tuition, and all other expenses, would be approximately $334,152 based on the 2022-23 school year.

 

 

 

 

[Tug]

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.what’s really going to determine admissions is affordability and test scores. the majority of people who can conceivably go to an Ivy League school is predominantly white and wealthy the rest without affirmative is just so much hot air 

[Caldera]

It's a business, they should be allowed to admit whoever they think is the best fit for them.

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.what’s really going to determine admissions is affordability and test scores. the majority of people who can conceivably go to an Ivy League school is predominantly white and wealthy the rest without affirmative is just so much hot air 

Or Black, Brown, Asian and wealthy. 

[Hanaguma]

8 hours ago, Caldera said:

It's a business, they should be allowed to admit whoever they think is the best fit for them.

Which would be great. IF it were a fully private institution that did not accept any government money. OR government guaranteed student loans. Otherwise, they are bound by anti discrimination rules. 

 

 

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, Tug said:

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.what’s really going to determine admissions is affordability and test scores. the majority of people who can conceivably go to an Ivy League school is predominantly white and wealthy the rest without affirmative is just so much hot air 

I always had reservations about race based affirmative action; why should a minority student from a wealthy family who went to an expensive prep school get preferred treatment.

 

Economic affirmative action--giving preference and financial aid to students from families with below average incomes and going to school in below average school districts--I would support. 

[jcmj]

If you have really good test scores and can afford it then you should be able to be accepted. I don’t believe in letting people in of any race if they don’t meet the standard requirements. There shouldn’t be different scores for different races. That’s just not fair. I had a good enough score to enter if I wasn’t white, but I certainly didn’t have the money, in any case. So I simply chose another school. It’s not rocket science. Now I don’t hire people because of their race. I hire them for their skills and job history. Their college diploma makes no difference to me. 

[JCauto]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:09 AM, Hanaguma said:

Yes, because the only way to eliminate racism is to be racist...

 

Anyway, interestingly a large percentage of black students at Harvard aren't even ADOS (American Descendants of Slavery). They are immigrants from the Caribbean or Africa, who have only been in the US for a generation or two. Hardly the victims of generations of American racism. 

 

https://thegrio.com/2011/04/21/harvard-has-more-black-students-than-ever-but-are-they-african-american/

Yes, because everyone knows that victimization of black people ended immediately and completely once slavery was abolished. Did you just wake up from a 200 year coma?

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, JCauto said:

Yes, because everyone knows that victimization of black people ended immediately and completely once slavery was abolished. Did you just wake up from a 200 year coma?

Sure. Can you explain why recent immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean outperform African Americans? And why discriminating against Asian immigrants and their children is a rational and fair solution to the problem.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Sure. Can you explain why recent immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean outperform African Americans? And why discriminating against Asian immigrants and their children is a rational and fair solution to the problem.

Because they are recent immigrants.

 

The fact recent immigrants, regardless of race, frequently outperform established citizens is well documented.

 

Sorry if this upsets your perforative view of particular race groups and your long expressed views of immigrants to the US.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/nurturing-resilience/201910/why-do-immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans?amp

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans-two-key-measures-financial-success-n1020291

Edited July 7, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because they are recent immigrants.

 

The fact recent immigrants, regardless of race, frequently outperform established citizens is well documented.

 

Sorry if this upsets your perforative view of particular race groups and your long expressed views of immigrants to the US.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/nurturing-resilience/201910/why-do-immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans?amp

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans-two-key-measures-financial-success-n1020291

Thanks for the good articles, I particularly liked the one from Psych Today.  It showed that the differences in performance between recent immigrants and native born Americans have nothing to do with race. Rather, with the choices they make- regarding where to live, how to live, and what values to follow. 

There is no reason that African Americans and Hispanics cannot emulate what recent immigrants do. It shows that their problems (such as lack of representation in certain schools) could be solved by improving their behavior, and that they are NOT caused by external issues like racism.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thanks for the good articles, I particularly liked the one from Psych Today.  It showed that the differences in performance between recent immigrants and native born Americans have nothing to do with race. Rather, with the choices they make- regarding where to live, how to live, and what values to follow. 

There is no reason that African Americans and Hispanics cannot emulate what recent immigrants do. It shows that their problems (such as lack of representation in certain schools) could be solved by improving their behavior, and that they are NOT caused by external issues like racism.

I‘m neither an African or Hispanic American nor a person who feels he has the knowledge or experience to assert, as you do: “There is no reason that African Americans and Hispanics cannot emulate what recent immigrants do.”

 

Your self-assured pontification on the matter is noted, if only for being consistent with your posting history, 

 

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I‘m neither an African or Hispanic American nor a person who feels he has the knowledge or experience to assert, as you do: “There is no reason that African Americans and Hispanics cannot emulate what recent immigrants do.”

 

Your self-assured pontification on the matter is noted, if only for being consistent with your posting history, 

 

Thanks, appreciate the vote of confidence.

 

Like I said, it only shows pretty clearly that race in and of itself is not a deciding factor for black people.  

 

The question that never gets adequately answered is why Asians somehow manage to overcome myriad hurdles and become successful at a rate higher than any other racial/ethnic group (including white folks).  Genetic superiority? I doubt it.  Rather a cultural emphasis on education and family IMHO. 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thanks, appreciate the vote of confidence.

 

Like I said, it only shows pretty clearly that race in and of itself is not a deciding factor for black people.  

 

The question that never gets adequately answered is why Asians somehow manage to overcome myriad hurdles and become successful at a rate higher than any other racial/ethnic group (including white folks).  Genetic superiority? I doubt it.  Rather a cultural emphasis on education and family IMHO. 

Getting you back on topic:

 

Of the 31 million Americans aged between 18 and 24, just 68,000 are Ivy League schools undergraduates — about a fifth of a per cent.

So 0.219% of all Americans get to Ivy League.  

 

43% of Harvard’s annual intake are via ALDC, Athletics, Legacy, Dean’s List and Children of faculty staff.

 

The athletics route is includes LaCross, Sailing and Rowing, fine sports but not open to all. Legacy, mummy or daddy went to Harvard, Dean’s list mummy or daddy wrote a fat cheque, Children of faculty staff, doesn’t include children of all other staff.

 

100%-43% = 57% therefore 57% of 0.219% is 0.125% of young Americans.

 

Let’s pretend it’s a tiny number of Black and Hispanic students who benefit from affirmative action that is blocking access to the 99.875% of Americans who will never get their without privileged access via mummy and daddy.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/955ab1bb-f3d6-48a6-bba4-3c59fa5e47bd?accessToken=zwAF_-BxAWfgkdOVWrG789ZIptO7pDxZ-l5HvQ.MEUCIFiNWqKz6Vszr0-P4VQwK9y-u_OixBfawydc3Ak0VhT_AiEAnthICCL0rZhuh8IZcTvrASYSiFPlDwkdwVMheGjswIA&sharetype=gift&token=a60cbcfd-e757-4622-8d0a-5c7f7f042dc5

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Getting you back on topic:

 

Of the 31 million Americans aged between 18 and 24, just 68,000 are Ivy League schools undergraduates — about a fifth of a per cent.

So 0.219% of all Americans get to Ivy League.  

 

43% of Harvard’s annual intake are via ALDC, Athletics, Legacy, Dean’s List and Children of faculty staff.

 

The athletics route is includes LaCross, Sailing and Rowing, fine sports but not open to all. Legacy, mummy or daddy went to Harvard, Dean’s list mummy or daddy wrote a fat cheque, Children of faculty staff, doesn’t include children of all other staff.

 

100%-43% = 57% therefore 57% of 0.219% is 0.125% of young Americans.

 

Let’s pretend it’s a tiny number of Black and Hispanic students who benefit from affirmative action that is blocking access to the 99.875% of Americans who will never get their without privileged access via mummy and daddy.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/955ab1bb-f3d6-48a6-bba4-3c59fa5e47bd?accessToken=zwAF_-BxAWfgkdOVWrG789ZIptO7pDxZ-l5HvQ.MEUCIFiNWqKz6Vszr0-P4VQwK9y-u_OixBfawydc3Ak0VhT_AiEAnthICCL0rZhuh8IZcTvrASYSiFPlDwkdwVMheGjswIA&sharetype=gift&token=a60cbcfd-e757-4622-8d0a-5c7f7f042dc5

Thank you for the peripheral answer.   I agree that the legacy/sports admissions should be eliminated, at least at schools that take federal money. Now back to the question of race....How does discriminating against Asian students make for fair admissions?

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thank you for the peripheral answer.   I agree that the legacy/sports admissions should be eliminated, at least at schools that take federal money. Now back to the question of race....How does discriminating against Asian students make for fair admissions?

Let me once again give you a pointer to help you get back on topic. 

 

Refer top of thread:

 

“Legacy admissions: Harvard accused of favouring mostly white students”

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let me once again give you a pointer to help you get back on topic. 

 

Refer top of thread:

 

“Legacy admissions: Harvard accused of favouring mostly white students”

Thanks, appreciate it. Now in the story it says that 70% of the legacy applicants are white. Therefore, 30% are not.  Given that the US population as a whole is from 60 to 76% white, why is this a problem? Seems that there is enough diversity in the legacy class to make it at least superficially resemble the nation as a whole.

 

Plus this group comprises something like 28% of freshman admissions as a whole.  Not great but no impediment either.