Kwasaki Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hummin said: No need to explain why this world is ruled by short term voters and cheap sale arguments. Why Im not surprised, when people do not understand organized chaos, is a weapon, weapon of strategy filled with emotions, same as the very same is surprised Ukraine was invaded, even history of other neighboring countries. I thought Putin wants his USSR'S old capitol back which is now called Kiev. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said: I thought Putin wants his USSR'S old capitol back which is now called Kiev. I believe he feared loss of control of secured borders, necessary resources, Crim as strategic habor, position in world economy, power, and Nato surrounding them. No country good or bad would do anything different, and Putin using poor mans weapons, fear and terror to reach his goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, ozimoron said: There is a need to explain, with credible links. You made a claim that there is a conspiracy to send middle eastern refugees to Europe to destabilise it and that this conspiracy was the cause of the war in Ukraine. Now back that up or concede that it's untrue. You can't peddle this kind of drivel without backing it up. Im on travel, so keep it short Some reading for you if interested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_as_weapons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Summerinsiam Posted July 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2023 Sadly, many countries are at war, but looking at the headlines you wouldn't know it. Sovereignty and democracy seem to grow in importance when they are aligned and coincide with US and western interests. Ukraine was not a formal ally before the war and the allies have already gone further than many predicted. Zelenskey should understand that there are limits to what support can be offered, without triggering World War 3. At least Biden and the germans seem to grasp this. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Hummin said: Sometimes you have to understand there is a plan behind every conflict, where also refugees is a brick in the play! Surprised you never thought of it, or saw some news about it. Refugees vind up huge resources https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2016/03/02/putin-weaponizing-migrant-crisis-to-hurt-europe.html You badly misunderstand General Breedlove's claim. He didn't say that the purpose of the war was to create a refugee crisis. He said that a refugee crisis was created to break Europe's resolve. In other words, to put an end to European support of the rebellion. “Together, Russia and the Assad regime are deliberately weaponizing migration in an attempt to overwhelm European structures and break European resolve,” he told the committee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: You badly misunderstand General Breedlove's claim. He didn't say that the purpose of the war was to create a refugee crisis. He said that a refugee crisis was created to break Europe's resolve. In other words, to put an end to European support of the rebellion. “Together, Russia and the Assad regime are deliberately weaponizing migration in an attempt to overwhelm European structures and break European resolve,” he told the committee. What did I misunderstand? Refugees as a weapon, is not a new term, or e new invention related to europe in this century or the last before! Takes a little reading https://cis.mit.edu/publications/analysis-opinion/2022/when-migrants-become-weapons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Hummin said: What did I misunderstand? Refugees as a weapon, is not a new term, or e new invention related to europe in this century or the last before! Takes a little reading https://cis.mit.edu/publications/analysis-opinion/2022/when-migrants-become-weapons So, you're not claiming that the purpose of each of these 2 conflicts was to create refugee crises? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, placeholder said: So, you're not claiming that the purpose of each of these 2 conflicts was to create refugee crises? I mentioned it was one of the many reasons. Refugees is a end resoult that takes a lot of resources, same as land mines intention is not to kill, but hurt the enemy. War is not just depending on soldiers killing soldiers, then the wars wouldnt had so much impact! Refugees are innocent bricks used for what it is worth. Which the last article explains it very well, as the more tabloids making headlines from. As said, it takes interest and willing to read, and if those sources i prevented is reckoned as conspiracies, well, then I cant help 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Hummin said: I mentioned it was one of the many reasons. Refugees is a end resoult that takes a lot of resources, same as land mines intention is not to kill, but hurt the enemy. War is not just depending on soldiers killing soldiers, then the wars wouldnt had so much impact! Refugees are innocent bricks used for what it is worth. Which the last article explains it very well, as the more tabloids making headlines from. As said, it takes interest and willing to read, and if those sources i prevented is reckoned as conspiracies, well, then I cant help Here's what you originally wrote: "Do you believe it is a coincidence there is so many refugees coming to europe, and there is no long term strategy behind it?" Clearly, in the case of Syria, it was, at least in part, a way to break Europe's resolve to support the rebellion. . As for the Ukraine invasion, really? Russia decided to risk its economic dependence on Europe by unleashing refugees on it? There is zero evidence that the war in Ukraine was started to create a refugee crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Justanotherone Posted July 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2023 the wider plan since WW2 is making money for the WAR MONGERING INDUSTRIES, even the president of that time warned against the WAR INDUSTRIAL MACHINE... they sponsor any party and it does not matter who the people elect, as long as they can continue selling weapons on the tax payers money... korea, vietnam, iraq, afganisthan, syria, ukraine... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, placeholder said: Here's what you originally wrote: "Do you believe it is a coincidence there is so many refugees coming to europe, and there is no long term strategy behind it?" Clearly, in the case of Syria, it was, at least in part, a way to break Europe's resolve to support the rebellion. . As for the Ukraine invasion, really? Russia decided to risk its economic dependence on Europe by unleashing refugees on it? There is zero evidence that the war in Ukraine was started to create a refugee crisis. Out of context solely, it can look like it, did you read the lead up? And did you see a few of the links posted? Turkey opened their borders to Greece putting pressure on Eu, Belarous welcomed refugee's as a safe port to enter Europe. In February and March 2016, when the refugee crisis facing the European Union was still ongoing and vivid in the minds of European politicians as well as the public, US General Philip Breedlove, Head of NATO forces in Europe, accused Russia of working actively to exacerbate the refugee flows in an attempt to destabilize and destroy the EU. In a testimony in front of the House Armed Services Committee, he said, ‘Together, Russia and the Assad regime are deliberately weaponizing migration from Syria. In an attempt to overwhelm European structures and break European resolve https://militairespectator.nl/artikelen/allegations-russian-weaponized-migration-against-eu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hummin said: Out of context solely, it can look like it, did you read the lead up? And did you see a few of the links posted? Turkey opened their borders to Greece putting pressure on Eu, Belarous welcomed refugee's as a safe port to enter Europe. In February and March 2016, when the refugee crisis facing the European Union was still ongoing and vivid in the minds of European politicians as well as the public, US General Philip Breedlove, Head of NATO forces in Europe, accused Russia of working actively to exacerbate the refugee flows in an attempt to destabilize and destroy the EU. In a testimony in front of the House Armed Services Committee, he said, ‘Together, Russia and the Assad regime are deliberately weaponizing migration from Syria. In an attempt to overwhelm European structures and break European resolve https://militairespectator.nl/artikelen/allegations-russian-weaponized-migration-against-eu The quote was about Syrian refugees and the general didn't say that one of the reasons behind the war was to create a refugee crisis. Edited July 12, 2023 by placeholder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: The quote was about Syrian refugees and the general didn't say that one of the reasons behind the war was to create a refugee crisis. I give up, Read what is presented, and what I wrote in my posts. No more time for this nonsense of trolling. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post scottiejohn Posted July 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, Hummin said: I give up, Read what is presented, and what I wrote in my posts. No more time for this nonsense of trolling. I am glad that you agree that you are trolling! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said: I am glad that you agree that you are trolling! Trolling with credible sources? Cant fix stupid 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Hummin said: Im on travel, so keep it short Some reading for you if interested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_as_weapons You have not remotely come close to establishing that the Ukraine war was started as a way to coerce middle eastern refugees to destabilise Europe. Pointing to a definition of the term is nothing at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Hummin said: Trolling with credible sources? Cant fix stupid In your case, it's more like can't fix dyslexia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: You have not remotely come close to establishing that the Ukraine war was started as a way to coerce middle eastern refugees to destabilise Europe. Pointing to a definition of the term is nothing at all. As well you fail to read my posts where I state Ukraine war is not solely about emigrants, but it is part of the strategy! Purpose of Terror bombing of civilian? Russian President Vladimir Putin has created a new weapon against the West. More than 6 million Ukrainians have sought refuge in European Union countries; now they’re being followed by a new migration wave from countries harmed by the absence of Ukrainian grain. But in addition to the Ukrainian refugees, the number of asylum-seekers who arrived in the EU during the first half of this year almost doubled compared with the same period last year. The interim head of Frontex, the EU border agency, is warning of “waves of migration” as a result of Russia blocking exports of Ukrainian grain, which is creating food crises globally. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Hummin said: As well you fail to read my posts where I state Ukraine war is not solely about emigrants, but it is part of the strategy! Purpose of Terror bombing of civilian? Russian President Vladimir Putin has created a new weapon against the West. More than 6 million Ukrainians have sought refuge in European Union countries; now they’re being followed by a new migration wave from countries harmed by the absence of Ukrainian grain. But in addition to the Ukrainian refugees, the number of asylum-seekers who arrived in the EU during the first half of this year almost doubled compared with the same period last year. The interim head of Frontex, the EU border agency, is warning of “waves of migration” as a result of Russia blocking exports of Ukrainian grain, which is creating food crises globally. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/ Ukrainians refugees are not middle eastern refugees. Try to keep your own ducks in a row. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Kwasaki said: I thought Putin wants his USSR'S old capitol back which is now called Kiev. When was Kiev the capital of the USSR? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: In your case, it's more like can't fix dyslexia. At least dyslexia is not linked to stupidity ???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hummin said: As well you fail to read my posts where I state Ukraine war is not solely about emigrants, but it is part of the strategy! Purpose of Terror bombing of civilian? Russian President Vladimir Putin has created a new weapon against the West. More than 6 million Ukrainians have sought refuge in European Union countries; now they’re being followed by a new migration wave from countries harmed by the absence of Ukrainian grain. But in addition to the Ukrainian refugees, the number of asylum-seekers who arrived in the EU during the first half of this year almost doubled compared with the same period last year. The interim head of Frontex, the EU border agency, is warning of “waves of migration” as a result of Russia blocking exports of Ukrainian grain, which is creating food crises globally. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/ What has this got to do with your claim that creating refugees was part of Putin's long term plan for Ukraine. Putin's plan for Ukraine was a quick takeover. He had been assured by his intelligence people that his takeover would be supported by most Ukrainians. Not exactly a recipe for creating refugees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hummin said: At least dyslexia is not linked to stupidity ???? Not necessarily linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, placeholder said: What has this got to do with your claim that creating refugees was part of Putin's long term plan for Ukraine. Putin's plan for Ukraine was a quick takeover. He had been assured by his intelligence people that his takeover would be supported by most Ukrainians. Not exactly a recipe for creating refugees. Starting terror bombing of Kiev would be supported by Ukraine people? Do I need to continue to argue the obvious! And reoeat myself? Go back and reread my posts. Refugees is a biproduct of a war,, part if the strategy! Enough rubbish! Have a good day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: Not necessarily linked. Nice try 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Hummin said: Starting terror bombing of Kiev would be supported by Ukraine people? Do I need to continue to argue the obvious! And reoeat myself? Go back and reread my posts. Refugees is a biproduct of a war,, part if the strategy! Enough rubbish! Have a good day Again, you claimed the war was only started to create a refugee crisis. You did not originally claim it was a by product and you never established a link between the war and using middle eastern refugees to destabilise Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hummin said: Starting terror bombing of Kiev would be supported by Ukraine people? Do I need to continue to argue the obvious! And reoeat myself? Go back and reread my posts. Refugees is a biproduct of a war,, part if the strategy! Enough rubbish! Have a good day Russian intelligence knew that Ukrainians would not welcome Russia, but still told the Kremlin they would, report says Multiple reports say that Russia expected to seize Ukraine quickly, and that a major factor in Russia's failure to do so was the unexpectedly high level of resistance by Ukrainians. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-intel-knew-but-didnt-tell-kremlin-ukraine-would-fight-ussia-report-2022-8 First you claim it was part of their long term reasons for starting the war and now you're saying it's a byproduct. Contradicting yourself much? Edited July 12, 2023 by placeholder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Hummin said: You made it a conspiracy because lack of credible sources, and not willing to see it from another perspective, or willing to do an effort to prove me wrong and the sources posted. Thats just a few of many available. It all started with me stating Turkey as a buffer against Europe. Escalated to todays conflict in Ukraine. Ignorant bickering from your part, and can not see there is more involved than just a war of territory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Hummin said: It all started with me stating Turkey as a buffer against Europe. Escalated to todays conflict in Ukraine. Ignorant bickering from your part, and can not see there is more involved than just a war of territory It is just a war of territory. The soviet union once ruled Ukraine and Putin wants to retrive it back in order to establish his legacy. Moreover, Putin realises his country's reliance on fossil fuels make the Russian economy toast in the face of long term demand destruction. Russia needs Ukrainian land and resources to grow it's economy. It's that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hummin said: It all started with me stating Turkey as a buffer against Europe. Escalated to todays conflict in Ukraine. Ignorant bickering from your part, and can not see there is more involved than just a war of territory What's clear is that the Turks took advantage of the situation to use it to their benefit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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