Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, novacova said:

Ukraine will never be a member of NATO as long as the current autocratic kleptocratic government of Russia exists, at least not during the lifetime of anyone here. So stop the pipe dreaming, it’s useless.

Your worse than me. ????

[bkk6060]

Well, tough luck on the war,; but there must be a good reason they have never been admitted before.

SIck of hearing them begging for money and weapons what will their pay back be?  A middle finger to the entire west??

[sirineou]

The whole thing is Idiotic IMO , and an attempt to weaken russia and diminish Chinese influence throwing Ukraine in the meat grinder. 

Of course  they will not give Ukraine a timeline for joining NATO , The purpose of NATO is mutual defence, an attack on a NATO member is an attack on all.

If Ukraine joined NATO the whole of NATO will have to declare war on Russia. Is Europe prepared to go to war with Russia?

Even if NATO was to win , not only it will not be pretty for Ukraine , it will not be pretty for Europe ,

Remember that  little thing about nuclear weapons?

And If NATO attacks Russia what will China do? I am sure they will not be very happy having NATO in Russia and at their north boarder's,  And aside from the defencive  implications. second by only 1 percentage point to Saudi Arabia , Russia is the biggest supplier of OIL to China . Does anyone think the Chinese are blind and stupid? Does anyone know why Japan went to war with the US? 

  And what is NATO doing in Korea Japan, and Australia? 

 

The chinese have a curse that goes something like this:

" May you live in interesting times" and this are indeed interesting times. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by sirineou
typo

[onthedarkside]

Trolling response followed by replies removed

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, tough luck on the war,; but there must be a good reason they have never been admitted before.

SIck of hearing them begging for money and weapons what will their pay back be?  A middle finger to the entire west??

That's why they've applied to the EU. So if they get accepted, then they can give it the finger. You got nothing.

[RanongCat]

Just now, placeholder said:

That's why they've applied to the EU. So if they get accepted, then they can give it the finger. You got nothing.

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

That's strong criticism of NATO if I understand where your coming from.

Is it wrong to question motiv? History can make for questions if what is  reveald or reminded can make questions legitimate ! Ukraine  being depopulated, much land going to foreign buyer. EU  countries already absorbd how many million cheap refugee worker? Not so many gone year  UK was angry for so many Polish taking work.

[placeholder]

Just now, RanongCat said:

Is it wrong to question motiv? History can make for questions if what is  reveald or reminded can make questions legitimate ! Ukraine  being depopulated, much land going to foreign buyer. EU  countries already absorbd how many million cheap refugee worker? Not so many gone year  UK was angry for so many Polish taking work.

I don't know if it's wrong, but in this case it certainly makes no sense. If not to the EU, where is Ukraine going to hitch its economic future to?  The Eurasian Economic Union?

[RanongCat]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't know if it's wrong, but in this case it certainly makes no sense. If not to the EU, where is Ukraine going to hitch its economic future to?  The Eurasian Economic Union?

This war already about control of Ukraine economy.  Russia want this percent and  Us  control  Nato want same and all !  People have less value than .

 

[RanongCat]

Media and other always like to  talk about  who is  winning. Not  so much about  who is dead  to win. So why  is to win ?  For people?

[riclag]

6 hours ago, Summerinsiam said:

Good that they have fudged the decision and not given in to Zelenskey's incessant, never- ending demands. After all, it was the expansion of NATO eastwards that helped create this mess. 

You hit the nail on the head! 

Thanks
“But the eastward expansion of NATO particularly inflamed Putin, who has claimed that Secretary of State James Baker and other Western leaders assured Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990, at the time a unified Germany joined NATO, that the alliance would expand “not one inch eastward.”

https://afsa.org/did-nato-expansion-really-cause-putins-invasion

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, riclag said:

You hit the nail on the head! 

Thanks
“But the eastward expansion of NATO particularly inflamed Putin, who has claimed that Secretary of State James Baker and other Western leaders assured Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990, at the time a unified Germany joined NATO, that the alliance would expand “not one inch eastward.”

https://afsa.org/did-nato-expansion-really-cause-putins-invasion

Nah he needs a better aim, that hammer went straight over his head. If this was about Nato then why did Putin not take up peace talks with Zelensky when he offered to not join?

 

Zelensky: We won’t join NATO if that brings peace

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday he is prepared to pledge that Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO, in a bid to broker a peace deal with Russia. 

https://nypost.com/2022/03/22/zelensky-we-wont-join-nato-if-that-brings-peace/

[The Old Bull]

Zelenskey ,a horrible little man trying to get a world war going so he can keep his job.

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I think most see understandable Zelenskes impatient stance, he needs more statgegty support and should wait for air power support.

There is a reason you don't see many aircraft in this war, they get shot down easily these days.

 

7 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

Zelenskey ,a horrible little man trying to get a world war going so he can keep his job.

I thought he was trying to kick the Russians out of his country.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, RanongCat said:

This war already about control of Ukraine economy.  Russia want this percent and  Us  control  Nato want same and all !  People have less value than .

 

Well, even if that's the case, it's a control that the Ukrainian people are overwhelmingly in favor of. 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukraine-92-want-eu-membership-by-2030/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1284801/ukraine-opinion-on-eu-accession/

[placeholder]

29 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

Zelenskey ,a horrible little man trying to get a world war going so he can keep his job.

And somehow this "horrible little man" has managed to convince the majority of Ukrainians to go along with him. And I'm sure you can explain why his popularity with the Ukrainians shot up when he made clear in no uncertain terms that Ukraine was going to fight back against Russia. If you want to find the  actual "horrible little man" in this war, try looking a bit further east.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, riclag said:

You hit the nail on the head! 

Thanks
“But the eastward expansion of NATO particularly inflamed Putin, who has claimed that Secretary of State James Baker and other Western leaders assured Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990, at the time a unified Germany joined NATO, that the alliance would expand “not one inch eastward.”

https://afsa.org/did-nato-expansion-really-cause-putins-invasion

Putin either didn't know the true history or is trying to rewrite it; there were never guarantees against eastern expansion. 

 

The only reason countries want to join NATO is to deter Russian aggression.  Putin could have prevented NATO expansion by not bullying Russia's neighbors.

[steven100]

And I bet London to a brick on that if this Wallace guy was asked to visit the front line to see what it's really like he would be the first one ducking & weaving like a little coward.

go crawl back in your hole Wallace .....     ????

source:https://www.yahoo.com/news/zelenskyy-sternly-reacts-wallaces-remarks-203600430.html

 

[steven100]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

The only reason countries want to join NATO is to deter Russian aggression.  Putin could have prevented NATO expansion by not bullying Russia's neighbors.

Thank you .... your statement is absolutely correct.  

[RanongCat]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, even if that's the case, it's a control that the Ukrainian people are overwhelmingly in favor of. 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukraine-92-want-eu-membership-by-2030/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1284801/ukraine-opinion-on-eu-accession/

So the  media tells us.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, RanongCat said:

So the  media tells us.

So what are your sources?

[steven100]

9 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

Zelenskey ,a horrible little man trying to get a world war going so he can keep his job.

that horrible little man who invaded someone else's country ..... they need to assassinate  him real soon

[Summerinsiam]

Judging by their comments yesterday, it seems that both Ben Wallace and Jake Sullivan are in agreement that Zelenskey should tone down his act. As I said, he should understand that there are limits to NATO support, and that countries face domestic pressure. They answer to their electorates and not him. Being treated as an 'Amazon warehouse', has unsurprisingly rankled them. I, for one, are glad that they are sensibly trying to err on the side of 'strategic caution', despite Zelenskey and his drmands.

[RanongCat]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

So what are your sources?

Why thinking I must have other source? Must I believe all anyway ? Is there a rule against suspicioun ?

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

There is a reason you don't see many aircraft in this war, they get shot down easily these days.

 

Not F16's flown like Topgun.

 

Jokes aside I hear from experts on radio that airpower will give the ground offensive better support, frankly myself I would have no idea.

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, RanongCat said:

Is it wrong to question motiv? History can make for questions if what is  reveald or reminded can make questions legitimate ! Ukraine  being depopulated, much land going to foreign buyer. EU  countries already absorbd how many million cheap refugee worker? Not so many gone year  UK was angry for so many Polish taking work.

That's getting into the crazy building management system set up in the UK and is another thread really.

[Gweiloman]

16 hours ago, steven100 said:

and remember,  not even half of what was promised have been delivered ..

Hardly surprising. It doesn’t have a record on making good on its promises. 

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Why thinking I must have other source? Must I believe all anyway ? Is there a rule against suspicioun ?

If you don't trust the media then you must have other sources for information or accept that you are ignorant.

[onthedarkside]

Comments on moderation removed along with replies

[Kwasaki]

47 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If you don't trust the media then you must have other sources for information or accept that you are ignorant.

The other sources can be just someone's opinion or others giving opinion on the radio or tv on what they think is going on behind the scenes, I don't see that as unreasonable.

 

[vandeventer]

Try, right after Ukraine defeats Russia.