Wall Street execs make first bets against Donald Trump in 2024

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

It's been mostly successful... why do you think it needs to change?  For the sake of change?  To "keep up" with the Jones'?  Amendments go both ways... how about the current push to eliminate female rights? PS... "one person one vote" is a myth prescribed to by those who have no concept of the republic government model... it was never intended that the USA be ruled by the mob... thank your lucky stars.

Sure don't want it to be ruled by the "mob".....the "mob" is what is known as citizens with a vote.  I prefer "mob" rule to a system that values different votes differently according to what state they live in, what gender, what race, what religion.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

The problem with that is the coastal elites would end up deciding the course for the real America ie everywhere not in the liberal bubble the coastal elites exist in. Hardly a fair situation IMO

Please explain how the majority can be elite?  It seems the true situation is that the self-serving minority is blocking needed reform.

[Skipalongcassidy]

58 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Sure don't want it to be ruled by the "mob".....the "mob" is what is known as citizens with a vote.  I prefer "mob" rule to a system that values different votes differently according to what state they live in, what gender, what race, what religion.

You have no concept other than the party line when it comes to the electoral college... each state is weighted for population by the number of electoral votes that it is assigned... it evens the playing field so that one segment of the population cannot take control of the entire population... so far in history it has been the most fairly judged political system in the world... why tear it apart?

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Socialism which is constantly frothed after by the liberals has failed everywhere... welfare... fail... socialized medicine... fail... gov't controlled schools... fail... care to go on???  PS... participation trophies... fail.

Wow, you are seriously uninformed. 

 

If welfare, including Social Security and Medicare, is a fail, explain why it is so popular as to be politically untouchable. 

 

If socialized medicine is a fail, explain why advanced economies that have it have lower medical costs and longer life expectancy than the US. 

 

If public education is a fail, explain why no advanced or advancing economy does not have it, and even impoverished nations try to get it.

 

Back up your naive statements with real world facts.

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

It's been mostly successful... why do you think it needs to change?  For the sake of change?  To "keep up" with the Jones'?  Amendments go both ways... how about the current push to eliminate female rights? PS... "one person one vote" is a myth prescribed to by those who have no concept of the republic government model... it was never intended that the USA be ruled by the mob... thank your lucky stars.

'It was never intended that the USA be ruled by the mob'.......

 

I agree, that's why the Mafioso Don needs to be out of the POTUS race and in jail.

 

'Trump acts like a mob boss. Now he’s being indicted like one'.

 

Trump’s hush money indictment is a mob boss’ nightmare (msnbc.com)

 

'Trump Likened to Mob Boss John Gotti in Ex-Prosecutor’s New Book......

Donald J. Trump grew his business, fortune and fame “through a pattern of criminal activity'.

 

Trump Likened to Mob Boss John Gotti in Ex-Prosecutor’s New Book - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Skipalongcassidy]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Please explain how the majority can be elite?  It seems the true situation is that the self-serving minority is blocking needed reform.

Elite has many meanings among which is the majority of people who rule by mob mentality... not unlike the self serving masses

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Wow, you are seriously uninformed. 

 

If welfare, including Social Security and Medicare, is a fail, explain why it is so popular as to be politically untouchable. 

 

If socialized medicine is a fail, explain why advanced economies that have it have lower medical costs and longer life expectancy than the US. 

 

If public education is a fail, explain why no advanced or advancing economy does not have it, and even impoverished nations try to get it.

 

Back up your naive statements with real world facts.

First... welfare does not include SSI nor Medicare... 

Secondly... name one

Thirdly... most successful nations do not strive for public education... the private education opportunities far outstrip the public sector.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, Venom said:

Name one 

All of those Republicans opposed to sending arms to Ukraine under the guise fo "fiscal responsibility". There are a few. They are all members of the freedom caucus.

[Skipalongcassidy]

6 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

'It was never intended that the USA be ruled by the mob'.......

 

I agree, that's why the Mafioso Don needs to be out of the POTUS race and in jail.

 

'Trump acts like a mob boss. Now he’s being indicted like one'.

 

Trump’s hush money indictment is a mob boss’ nightmare (msnbc.com)

 

'Trump Likened to Mob Boss John Gotti in Ex-Prosecutor’s New Book......

Donald J. Trump grew his business, fortune and fame “through a pattern of criminal activity'.

 

Trump Likened to Mob Boss John Gotti in Ex-Prosecutor’s New Book - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Clear your mind... Trump is taking much too much room there... 

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

You have no concept other than the party line when it comes to the electoral college... each state is weighted for population by the number of electoral votes that it is assigned... it evens the playing field so that one segment of the population cannot take control of the entire population... so far in history it has been the most fairly judged political system in the world... why tear it apart?

What basis do you have for suggesting that the American electoral college is "fair"? Or even successful. Every time a president is elected with a popular minority the system fails the constitution which requires fairness in voting. Why do Republicans hate the voting rights act?

[LosLobo]

Just now, Skipalongcassidy said:

Clear your mind... Trump is taking much too much room there... 

Yet, Trump is the subject of this forum.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Elite has many meanings among which is the majority of people who rule by mob mentality... not unlike the self serving masses

Is "mob mentally" a euphemism for majority democratic rule?

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

You have no concept other than the party line when it comes to the electoral college... each state is weighted for population by the number of electoral votes that it is assigned... it evens the playing field so that one segment of the population cannot take control of the entire population... so far in history it has been the most fairly judged political system in the world... why tear it apart?

"so far in history it has been the most fairly judged political system in the world... why tear it apart?"

Is this your idea of a fact? Maybe 200 or so years ago that might have been the case. But now? Can you provide a survey of various political systems that comes to the conclusion backed by evidence that this is the case?

Whenever someone writes a passive formulated expression like "it has been judged" or "it is said" or "it has been found", the obvious question arises? Who made that judgement? Who said it? Who found it?  If you can't provide the agent or agents who made this judgement, why should anyone believe what you claim? 

 

[heybruce]

27 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

First... welfare does not include SSI nor Medicare... 

Secondly... name one

Thirdly... most successful nations do not strive for public education... the private education opportunities far outstrip the public sector.

Please pay attention here; I'm supporting my claims with sourced facts.  You should try it.

 

Social Security and Medicare are social welfare programs:

 

social welfare

noun

: organized public or private social services for the assistance of disadvantaged groups

specifically : social work   https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social welfare

 

 

US healthcare costs as a percent of GDP relative to other nations:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

 

At least the US in number one, by a considerable margin, in that regard.  Healthcare in the US is absurdly expensive.

 

 

US life expectancy vs other advanced economies:

 

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Life_expectancy/G7/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11866813/US-LOWEST-life-expectancy-G7-nations.html

 

We're not only last by a considerable margin in the G7, we're not in the top 50 globally.  We're behind China, Thailand, Cuba and Lebanon.

 

 

Public education dominating:

 

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SE.PRM.PRIV.ZS/rankings

 

Note that only 11 out of 192 nations have the majority of students privately educated, and those 11 nations are small ones.

 

Ok, I've backed up my claims with facts.  Now it's your turn.

Edited July 18, 2023 by heybruce

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Please pay attention here; I'm supporting my claims with sourced facts.  You should try it.

 

Social Security and Medicare are social welfare programs:

 

social welfare

noun

: organized public or private social services for the assistance of disadvantaged groups

specifically : social work   https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social welfare

 

 

US healthcare costs as a percent of GDP relative to other nations:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

 

At least the US in number one, by a considerable margin, in that regard.  Healthcare in the US is absurdly expensive.

 

 

US life expectancy vs other advanced economies:

 

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Life_expectancy/G7/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11866813/US-LOWEST-life-expectancy-G7-nations.html

 

We're not only last by a considerable margin in the G7, we're not in the top 50 globally.  We're behind China, Thailand, Cuba and Lebanon.

 

 

Public education dominating:

 

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SE.PRM.PRIV.ZS/rankings

 

Note that only 11 out of 192 nations have the majority of students privately educated, and those 11 nations are small ones.

 

Ok, I've backed up my claims with facts.  Now it's your turn.

You'll only get talking points like "private education provides choice". It's code for "the poor people can eat cake and educated people don't vote for us anyway except maybe the rich who can afford private education".

[Tropposurfer]

I have listened to and watched Marianne Williamson a bit of late and doesn't she make sense!

 

I haven't researched her background but she sounds suspiciously like an experienced and highly competent therapist to me (a good thing). She appears to be grounded, sane, critically thoughtful, neither a sociopath nor insane (which is always a good thing when hoping to govern). 

 

A completely different and rich offering compared to either the GOP, Trumpist, MAGA insane asylum, or the other equally barren wasteland of other sectors of US politics as it is today.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Tropposurfer

[LosLobo]

35 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

I have listened to and watched Marianne Williamson a bit of late and doesn't she make sense!

 

I haven't researched her background but she sounds suspiciously like an experienced and highly competent therapist to me (a good thing). She appears to be grounded, sane, critically thoughtful, neither a sociopath nor insane (which is always a good thing when hoping to govern). 

 

A completely different and rich offering compared to either the GOP, Trumpist, MAGA insane asylum, or the other equally barren wasteland of other sectors of US politics as it is today.

I agree, I was impressed when I watched an interview with her when she first threw her hat into the ring.

 

 

She is very popular especially with the women and the young, though I think she has had some very alternate ideas in the past which may come back to bite her.

 

Though  these 'ideas' I suggest are a lesser evil those of Trump and the other GOP candidates and even those of Democratic conspiracy theorist RFK Jr.

 

 

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I agree, I was impressed when I watched an interview with her when she first threw her hat into the ring.

 

 

She is very popular especially with the women and the young, though I think she has had some very alternate ideas in the past which may come back to bite her.

 

Though  these 'ideas' I suggest are a lesser evil those of Trump and the other GOP candidates and even those of Democratic conspiracy theorist RFK Jr.

 

 

No doubt she is an intelligent and accomplished woman.  However the Presidency isn't for amateurs.  I'd never support anyone who thinks their first job in government should be as President.

[Skipalongcassidy]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

What basis do you have for suggesting that the American electoral college is "fair"? Or even successful. Every time a president is elected with a popular minority the system fails the constitution which requires fairness in voting. Why do Republicans hate the voting rights act?

If you had any understanding at all it would be easy to explain... however since you do not understand... I cannot help you... I would suggest reading about "democratic republic"... "electoral votes determined based on population density"... the founding fathers of the USA had no intention ever of the majority having control of anything... they saw thru the facade and knew it to be a bad decision... majorities become mobs that demand everyone toe the line... 

Edited July 18, 2023 by metisdead
Inflammatory comments edited out.

[Skipalongcassidy]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Is "mob mentally" a euphemism for majority democratic rule?

No... As an Aussie you have no concept of the USA never being designed to be ruled by the majority... please study "democratic republic" and "electoral college"... then possibly you will understand... probably not though.

[Chomper Higgot]

23 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Uhm, Biden??!

Erm:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-campaign-dnc-raise-72-million-combined-since-april-re-election-launch-7de3d193

[ozimoron]

34 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

No... As an Aussie you have no concept of the USA never being designed to be ruled by the majority... please study "democratic republic" and "electoral college"... then possibly you will understand... probably not though.

Just right wing talking points. The US was definitely designed to be ruled by a majority.

 

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

 

Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If you had any understanding at all it would be easy to explain... however since you do not understand... I cannot help you... I would suggest reading about "democratic republic"... "electoral votes determined based on population density"... the founding fathers of the USA had no intention ever of the majority having control of anything... they saw thru the facade and knew it to be a bad decision... majorities become mobs that demand everyone toe the line... 

I suggest you read about the history of the US from 1776 through the ratification of the US Constitution, with special emphasis on the Constitutional Convention, the failures of the Articles of Confederation (which produced a republic so dysfunctional the new country nearly failed years after its start) and the ugly compromises reluctantly made to produce a document everyone could support, though with many reservations.

 

Your are correct that those in the convention did not trust direct elections; they assumed everyone would vote for their personal interests so they arranged a system much more complicated and undemocratic than the current one.  They also didn't trust political parties and were especially leery of a two-party system.  Our current system of elections has evolved significantly since then, with the antiquated electoral college being one of the few relics of the original.  It's time to evolve past that.

 

I also advocate protecting the country from the extremist foolishness of two party politics by introducing rank choice voting, but that's getting well off-topic.

[Skipalongcassidy]

14 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Just right wing talking points. The US was definitely designed to be ruled by a majority.

 

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

 

Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2

12 hours ago, heybruce said:

I suggest you read about the history of the US from 1776 through the ratification of the US Constitution, with special emphasis on the Constitutional Convention, the failures of the Articles of Confederation (which produced a republic so dysfunctional the new country nearly failed years after its start) and the ugly compromises reluctantly made to produce a document everyone could support, though with many reservations.

 

Your are correct that those in the convention did not trust direct elections; they assumed everyone would vote for their personal interests so they arranged a system much more complicated and undemocratic than the current one.  They also didn't trust political parties and were especially leery of a two-party system.  Our current system of elections has evolved significantly since then, with the antiquated electoral college being one of the few relics of the original.  It's time to evolve past that.

 

I also advocate protecting the country from the extremist foolishness of two party politics by introducing rank choice voting, but that's getting well off-topic.

020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/

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