Is my jazz stuttering because I’m using 91 gasohol?

[cheeryble]

Honda Jazz I-dsl

2006

 

two days ago my Jazz almost stalled a few times.

It was rather like an overheated engine but there was no sign of steam or anything.

a friend asked me if I used 95 I said I may well have given it a tank of 91…..he said that'll do it.

is this so?

 

I have about 40% of a tankful.

if I top it up with 95 is it likely to run ok?

 

thanks v much!

[Furioso]

I don't think 95 will help, after all you've never needed it before. If the problem continues I'd take it to a shop for servicing. 

[KhunBENQ]

As above. Problem is likely unrelated.

But please stop using 91, makes no sense at a price difference of about 0.27.

Fill up with 95, no new problem to expect.

 

When was last service?

[In the jungle]

The IDSI is the one with eight spark plugs which people hate replacing because they are expensive.

 

Do you know the service history?  I think the plugs are lifed at 100,000 km but the service schedule will tell you.

 

I am not saying it is the plugs.  Based on the little information you have given it could be many different things.

 

It will run fine on 91 or 95 assuming the fuel is not contaminated or old. 

[keith101]

Possible blocked injectors from dirty fuel or water in the fuel

 

[Kwasaki]

52 minutes ago, keith101 said:

Possible blocked injectors from dirty fuel or water in the fuel

 

Yes not a big problem to get fixed.

[Lacessit]

The fuel specified for the 2006 Honda Jazz is regular ULP, i.e. 91 octane. That points to something else being the problem, such as water, the fuel filter, or injectors.

 

In Thailand, it is not unknown for smaller gas stations to increase their profit margin by adding water to gasohol, as the ethanol/hydrocarbon mix can tolerate water up until the point it separates into two phases.

 

It's why I always buy my gasoline from high volume, main highway businesses.

[hotchilli]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:30 PM, cheeryble said:

two days ago my Jazz almost stalled a few times.

It was rather like an overheated engine but there was no sign of steam or anything.

a friend asked me if I used 95 I said I may well have given it a tank of 91…..he said that'll do it.

is this so?

Engine "rattle" usually occurs at a higher RPM when using a low octane fuel..

Fill it with 95 and add some quality injector cleaner..

take it for a good run, push the revs/rpm through the gears  and see what happens.

[wombat]

its prolly stuttering because of water in the fuel...get a fuel filter put in

[ujayujay]

Its 17 Years old.....maybe thats the Problem?

[Antiparovian]

I first read this as Jizz and was quite perplexed...

[Dazinoz]

I have a 2012 Honda Jazz and have been using 91 for 10 years no problems. In fact I went on a trip once and on a fill 91 not available so filled up with 95. Ran worse until refilled again with 91. Sounds strange but true. Don't really know why maybe a bad batch fuel. I actually had it happen again last week and had to fill with 95 but I noticed no difference on the remainder of tank.

 

I had a Mazda 3 in Oz which could run on 91 but I always used 95. Ran better and actually better fuel consumption. 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

I have a 2012 Honda Jazz and have been using 91 for 10 years no problems. In fact I went on a trip once and on a fill 91 not available so filled up with 95. Ran worse until refilled again with 91. Sounds strange but true. Don't really know why maybe a bad batch fuel. I actually had it happen again last week and had to fill with 95 but I noticed no difference on the remainder of tank.

 

I had a Mazda 3 in Oz which could run on 91 but I always used 95. Ran better and actually better fuel consumption. 

ECU engine fuel adjustments don't always adjust straight away.

The recommendation is if choose a fuel that car can use stick with it.

 

[Dazinoz]

14 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

ECU engine fuel adjustments don't always adjust straight away.

The recommendation is if choose a fuel that car can use stick with it.

 

Yep, and thats what I try to do. Only 2 occasions in 10 years need to change to 95 for 1 tank load each time.

[Kwasaki]

44 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Yep, and thats what I try to do. Only 2 occasions in 10 years need to change to 95 for 1 tank load each time.

Yep with an older car as well after using only 1 fuel type for years I would say it would be noticeable how an engine your use to would react.

 

Many new car now can use 91 and everything up to E 85 no problem.

 

 

[billd766]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lacessit said:

The fuel specified for the 2006 Honda Jazz is regular ULP, i.e. 91 octane. That points to something else being the problem, such as water, the fuel filter, or injectors.

 

In Thailand, it is not unknown for smaller gas stations to increase their profit margin by adding water to gasohol, as the ethanol/hydrocarbon mix can tolerate water up until the point it separates into two phases.

 

It's why I always buy my gasoline from high volume, main highway businesses.

https://www.wapcar.my/collect-faqs/honda-jazz-specs-1637661540248#:~:text=Fuel recommendation Your vehicle is,higher may be used temporarily.

 

Fuel recommendation Your vehicle is designed to operate on unleaded petrol with a research octane of 91 or higher. If this octane grade is unavailable, regular unleaded petrol with a research octane of 88 or higher may be used temporarily.

[Bday Prang]

             Nothing to do with fuel octane whatsoever, but can you be a bit more specific about the "stall"  What do you mean by "it was like an overheated engine? was the red "overheating" warning light on? Or did you arrive at that conclusion perhaps because the engine appeared to struggle to turn over when you tried to restart?

           Why it stalled is anybody's guess, but struggling a bit to turnover on  restart is not uncommon for this engine when warm , although it could possibly  be an indication of  battery that's past its best.  I bought one new for the missus same age as yours never had a problem with it, in over 200,000kms  but needed to replace the battery about every three years.

           It very  occasionally seems to struggle on start up a bit when warm,  but  turning the key off and then trying again always does the trick

         If you can be bothered finding and removing the 8  plugs (and it wont be easy ) it would be a good place to start, but I doubt you will achieve anything, and what then,? in this heat !

          My advice, check the water and run around in it for a few days dry and drain down the fuel as much as you dare and put some fresh in . Might not happen again, If it continues to happen just take it to a Honda, dealer  It really won't cost that much to have it checked out and once they diagnose the problem they will tell you how much repairs will cost before proceeding, And the work, if any is, required will be guaranteed  

          I wouldn't let the local "somchai" anywhere near mine, for a million reasons,  and I'm really not a fan of poor quality non genuine service parts definitely a false economy especially here where the real things are not that expensive

          

[still kicking]

My car is 27 years old I never used anything else but 91

[thailand49]

My first Toyota here for the wife Yaris 2006, yearly it is taken to them for oil change inspection I basically use them to pick up any potential problems. 

Majority of time it is small stuff I do myself now that it is older years back I started to look for an independent guy which I found since got him to put in shocks, brakes,  the guy allow me to buy my own parts.

Recently had a problem very similar the ABS driver side wheel  sensor lite up It had happened a number of times but brakes engine still ran normal so I though bad sensor now turning engine rattle engine cuts off.

These are Situation I take to dealer even 2006, the mechanic called me over he had a small hand computer plugged into the dash that ran the data and confirmed it was the ABS sensor. 

You can get a  sensor 900 baht online easy to put in I ended up just letting them do the job 4000 baht. 

Take it to dealer piece of mind.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lacessit said:

In Thailand, it is not unknown for smaller gas stations to increase their profit margin by adding water to gasohol

You have anything to back that claim that "it is not unknown" that Thai petrol stations deliberately sell water-adulterated fuel or is it one of those "we all know..." false assertions that may have been reported once at one station?   Where and when is it not uncommon?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lacessit said:

It's why I always buy my gasoline from high volume, main highway businesses.

Why should they not do what you claim also if it is "not uncommon"?   It would make more sense as it would be much more profitable for them to do it than for low volume sellers.

[mancub]

Try changing the air filter also

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You have anything to back that claim that "it is not unknown" that Thai petrol stations deliberately sell water-adulterated fuel or is it one of those "we all know..." false assertions that may have been reported once at one station?   Where and when is it not uncommon?

Reminds me near our village I know of 2 small private owned garages that had water in fuel problems and 1 replaced their very old corroded storage tank and all was OK the other couldn't afford it and closed down. 

 

Used local PTT for some 20 years diesel and petrol never a problem.

There can be contaminants in any garages that's what fuel filters are for.

[carlyai]

10 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

             Nothing to do with fuel octane whatsoever, but can you be a bit more specific about the "stall"  What do you mean by "it was like an overheated engine? was the red "overheating" warning light on? Or did you arrive at that conclusion perhaps because the engine appeared to struggle to turn over when you tried to restart?

           Why it stalled is anybody's guess, but struggling a bit to turnover on  restart is not uncommon for this engine when warm , although it could possibly  be an indication of  battery that's past its best.  I bought one new for the missus same age as yours never had a problem with it, in over 200,000kms  but needed to replace the battery about every three years.

           It very  occasionally seems to struggle on start up a bit when warm,  but  turning the key off and then trying again always does the trick

         If you can be bothered finding and removing the 8  plugs (and it wont be easy ) it would be a good place to start, but I doubt you will achieve anything, and what then,? in this heat !

          My advice, check the water and run around in it for a few days dry and drain down the fuel as much as you dare and put some fresh in . Might not happen again, If it continues to happen just take it to a Honda, dealer  It really won't cost that much to have it checked out and once they diagnose the problem they will tell you how much repairs will cost before proceeding, And the work, if any is, required will be guaranteed  

          I wouldn't let the local "somchai" anywhere near mine, for a million reasons,  and I'm really not a fan of poor quality non genuine service parts definitely a false economy especially here where the real things are not that expensive

          

Our closest Honda place is just over B500/hr for labour. 

[Dazinoz]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Reminds me near our village I know of 2 small private owned garages that had water in fuel problems and 1 replaced their very old corroded storage tank and all was OK the other couldn't afford it and closed down. 

 

Used local PTT for some 20 years diesel and petrol never a problem.

There can be contaminants in any garages that's what fuel filters are for.

I worked in an oil refinery for 23 years producing various petroleum products and a LOT of steam is used in most of the processes. Obviously that steam condenses into water. Very critical fuels like jet fuel goes through many water removal processes. Other fuels not so much. A lot is letting fuel sit in a huge tank and let the water settle out and the tank is "water drawn" plus the fuel product is usually not drawn from the very base of the tank but a few centimetres up from the base of the tank.

 

So just saying if the refinery is not doing a good job or has faulty plant some water in the tanks at servos may come from the refinery

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Our closest Honda place is just over B500/hr for labour. 

Not exactly a fortune, and I doubt it will take them long, 

              But if you want to spend what will probably end up being most of the day, struggling in 30+ degree heat, to remove all the stuff that needs to be removed just to get access to spark plugs, stuff, that along with the plugs, may not have been removed for years, and with the inevitable result of something breaking or a nut or two rounding off , and then putting it all back only to find that the problem remains,  then by all means carry on but I think you would end up regretting it and quickly realise that   couple of thousand baht would have been money well spent

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I worked in an oil refinery for 23 years producing various petroleum products and a LOT of steam is used in most of the processes. Obviously that steam condenses into water. Very critical fuels like jet fuel goes through many water removal processes. Other fuels not so much. A lot is letting fuel sit in a huge tank and let the water settle out and the tank is "water drawn" plus the fuel product is usually not drawn from the very base of the tank but a few centimetres up from the base of the tank.

 

So just saying if the refinery is not doing a good job or has faulty plant some water in the tanks at servos may come from the refinery

Interesting and most people know water diesel fuel is not a good idea hence the checking of the fuel filter every oil service.

[Dazinoz]

21 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Interesting and most people know water diesel fuel is not a good idea hence the checking of the fuel filter every oil service.

Even less a good idea in jet fuel and that is why diesel and jet fuel go through water removal processes. But there are many places water can enter the fuels, refinery, tanks at servos and even transport tankers.

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Even less a good idea in jet fuel and that is why diesel and jet fuel go through water removal processes. But there are many places water can enter the fuels, refinery, tanks at servos and even transport tankers.

Hence a more sophisticated filter.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/YTVvirDKtNP8yow79

[carlyai]

5 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Not exactly a fortune, and I doubt it will take them long, 

              But if you want to spend what will probably end up being most of the day, struggling in 30+ degree heat, to remove all the stuff that needs to be removed just to get access to spark plugs, stuff, that along with the plugs, may not have been removed for years, and with the inevitable result of something breaking or a nut or two rounding off , and then putting it all back only to find that the problem remains,  then by all means carry on but I think you would end up regretting it and quickly realise that   couple of thousand baht would have been money well spent

If all else fails, go to Honda. 

Probably not talking about B2000..

more.