April or Pacific Cross?

[Sheryl]

This site: https://myhealthinternational.april-international.com/en-us/profile/travel-details

 

1. Sorry, I can't. Broker I had used no longer handles international plans.

 

2.  You can use it initially for O-A visa if you get the "foreign insurance certificate" signed by them (a broker should be able to arrange this) but you cannot use it for in-country annual extensions thereafter. You would have to return to US at least every 2 years for a new O-A visa. I would suggest nto using O-A but rather O.

 

3. It is always wiser to join as young as possible as the longer you wait, the more chance of developing a pre-existing condition which would then be excluded.

[mania]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This site: https://myhealthinternational.april-international.com/en-us/profile/travel-details

 

1. Sorry, I can't. Broker I had used no longer handles international plans.

 

2.  You can use it initially for O-A visa if you get the "foreign insurance certificate" signed by them (a broker should be able to arrange this) but you cannot use it for in-country annual extensions thereafter. You would have to return to US at least every 2 years for a new O-A visa. I would suggest nto using O-A but rather O.

 

3. It is always wiser to joing as young as possible as the longer you wait, the more chance of developing a pre-existing condition which would then be excluded.

Looks like that quote site for April will only allow birth dates back to 1958 so 65 age max

 

Cigna does seem to allow

https://www.cignaglobal.com/quote/pages/quote/PersonalInformationLiteV4.html

 

They quoted me 13k baht a month for 35 million baht policy

 

[Lucky Bones]

On 7/25/2023 at 8:32 PM, CLW said:

Okay, I read that you are existing customer of Pacific Cross already, so this might not affect you.

But they are very thorough and picky during initial screening of documents and previous treatments / underlying diseases. So much, that after two months of underwriting process I cancelled it and changed to another provider. My insurance broker warned me about that before and unless their client want (or have to) save premiums, they are no longer recommending Pacific Cross because of these issues.

Agreed for Pacific Cross. I said to my broker "Nope." Their questions border on being intrusive.

The questions, and my answers would simply give them a framework to deny any claim.

Insurance is a very expensive scam but we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.????????

[Lucky Bones]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:18 AM, Sheryl said:

Pacific Cross (and other Thai based companies) will raise your rates based on claims history on top of age related  increases. European based insurers are not allowed to fo this. So the premium difference you see in the charts is just a fraction of what may occur.

 

In addition PC excludes cover for  "chronic" conditions and this includes ones that newly develop after policy is in effect. So if for example you  have a claim related to cardiovascular disease or cancer, not  only will there be a substantial premium hike the next year (additional to age increases) but a new exclusion will be added for that condition going forward.  Western based insurers are not allowed to do this; exclusions cannot be added after the fact unless it is discovered you witheld or misrepresented information at time of application.

 

For anyone plannkng to grow old here, to me it is a no-brainer that need an internationally issued policy. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, if they can afford 30% of their retirement money gambling on their health/non accident.

We really are held to ransom by these companies.????????

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, mania said:

Looks like that quote site for April will only allow birth dates back to 1958 so 65 age max

 

Cigna does seem to allow

https://www.cignaglobal.com/quote/pages/quote/PersonalInformationLiteV4.html

 

They quoted me 13k baht a month for 35 million baht policy

 

Yes you must enrol by age 65 for April.

 

Cigna (Global)  has no age limit.

[SooKee]

14 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

I bit the bullet regards AA world and contacted them regards getting me some sort of discount with April on this years policy renewal which had gone up by over 18%...no discount forthcoming other than the option of a 1000usd deductible instead of 500usd (i opted for 1000) Just paid the premium due of 2944.61 USD  via Wise at a cost of 3 dollars....done for another year.????

Out of interest.  How did you pay for the US$ using Wise.  I looked into this ages ago and, at the time, the April US$ account was in a French bank and Wise told me I can only pay in Euros to a French account.  In the past I've used my credit card and had the extra cost of about £40 to the already (rapidly climbing) premium as a result of using a non US$ card.  Annoying.

[keithsimmonds]

I just clicked on the USD Dollar logo on the Wise app and added funds from my Bank Account,added the funds over the last 2 months at varying levels of GBP to USD (1.28 to 1.30) cost me just under £10 plus the 3 USD to complete the transaction yesterday. Like you i used a debit card in the past which cost me enough plus also lost on the currency exchange.....but not this time.

[SooKee]

44 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

I just clicked on the USD Dollar logo on the Wise app and added funds from my Bank Account,added the funds over the last 2 months at varying levels of GBP to USD (1.28 to 1.30) cost me just under £10 plus the 3 USD to complete the transaction yesterday. Like you i used a debit card in the past which cost me enough plus also lost on the currency exchange.....but not this time.

Right, thanks.  I'' try that next time.  maybe they changed something.  I think the problem was not so much not being able to access US$ in Wise, more that the account April told me to pay into was in a French Bank and it wouldn't accept a payment in anything other than Euro (assuming you used the "pay into our account" from Wise and not using a Wise debit card).

[keithsimmonds]

10 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Right, thanks.  I'' try that next time.  maybe they changed something.  I think the problem was not so much not being able to access US$ in Wise, more that the account April told me to pay into was in a French Bank and it wouldn't accept a payment in anything other than Euro (assuming you used the "pay into our account" from Wise and not using a Wise debit card).

On my app it's (recipients)to which I added April last year... I don't have a wise debit card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 7/26/2023 at 11:48 PM, Sheryl said:

Pacific Cross (and other Thai based companies) will raise your rates based on claims history on top of age related  increases. European based insurers are not allowed to fo this. So the premium difference you see in the charts is just a fraction of what may occur.

 

In addition PC excludes cover for  "chronic" conditions and this includes ones that newly develop after policy is in effect. So if for example you  have a claim related to cardiovascular disease or cancer, not  only will there be a substantial premium hike the next year (additional to age increases) but a new exclusion will be added for that condition going forward.  Western based insurers are not allowed to do this; exclusions cannot be added after the fact unless it is discovered you witheld or misrepresented information at time of application.

 

For anyone plannkng to grow old here, to me it is a no-brainer that need an internationally issued policy. 

 

 

 

Sheryl, fyi, I shared your comment above with the head Customer Service Manager for Pacific Cross Insurance in Bangkok, first verbally on the telephone and then in an email exchange we had where I copied her on your entire comment.

 

She specifically rejected your assertion above that Pacific Cross will apply blanket coverage exclusions to existing policy holders who develop chronic conditions after they already have a valid policy in effect -- subject to two unsurprising caveats:

 

Coverage in such a case would not apply only if:

1. the policy holder is found to have concealed a pre-existing chronic condition at the time they applied for their policy, or

2. the chronic condition developed after the policy was written but during a specified short-term "waiting period" for some specified condition listed when the policy was issued.

 

There is no general exclusion in Pacific Cross' Maxima policy language relating to chronic diseases.

 

Here is what the Pacific Cross manager wrote to me on that issue:

 

"When applying for health insurance, the applicant is expected to declare all his/her medical history for determination of coverage. In the case where the applicant does not fully declare his/her past health conditions, and these pre-existing health conditions are later discovered, then additional exclusion conditions are applied. Also, if a health condition develops during its waiting period, then it is covered also as pre-existing and not subject to cover."

 

And further:

 

"I wish to assure you that your MAXIMA policy will cover you well should one day you happen to develop cancer, cardiovascular diseases, or any other diseases and disorders which are not related to your personal exclusion or the general exclusions (see attached) in our policy. The company pays millions in claims for medical treatments for our insured members year after year for treatments of cancer and other chronic illnesses which are subject to cover. 

 

And no, we do not add exclusions for chronic health conditions which are already covered under the policy."

 

She also addressed your comments about claims triggering premium increases and Pacific Cross' policy on that:

 

"Health insurance premiums increase due to a number of factors, the key one being age. So when you enter a new age group which is every 5 years, the premium is adjusted to reflect the increase in health risk associated with age. In addition, when significant claims are made under the policy during the year, then a loading is applied at the renewal. This loading is temporary and adjusted based on claims record. In the case of no claims, a no claim discount of 10 - 20 % is given."

 

She went on to point out that Pacific Cross is different than other insurers who often pass along general price increases to all policy holders every year based on the overall claims experience of their entire client base.

 

"With community loading, I understand the same loading applies to all policies irrespective of claims record. Therefore, a member who has had significant claims and a member with few or no claims are loaded the same amount. If you are a healthy person with few claims, then this system is not to your benefit."

 

Hope the comments above are informative to you and the other members here.

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"With community loading, I understand the same loading applies to all policies irrespective of claims record. Therefore, a member who has had significant claims and a member with few or no claims are loaded the same amount. If you are a healthy person with few claims, then this system is not to your benefit."

This is a benefit if you don't claim, but not a benefit if you do have claims and as you get older you are likely to claim more and more, make sense?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

45 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is a benefit if you don't claim, but not a benefit if you do have claims and as you get older you are likely to claim more and more, make sense?

 

Of course... But it's not just a benefit if you don't claim at all, but also if you claim less than the average for your age group.

 

For most of the years I've had a Pacific Cross policy, with the exception of their standard 5-year age band premium increases, I hadn't had any year to year premium increases.

 

You start adding up those 7-10-15-20% annual premium increases that other insurers often pass along annually, and it ends up being quite a difference.

 

Also, Pacific Cross doesn't automatically pass along a premium surcharge for ANY and EVERY claim. But rather, as the CSR manager cited in her communication above, only in the event of "significant claims" activity in a given year.

 

And even then, in deciding whether to apply a temporary surcharge, they also consider how long you've had the policy, how much premiums you've paid in, and how that compares to your cumulative claims amounts.

 

 

 

[FantasticMrFox]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:44 PM, Sheryl said:

Yes, Jenny is gone and effectively so is AA as a broker option for international policies.

 

If anyone can recommend a good broker for international policies please advise (it is possible to reassign brokers even once policy is  purchased). In the interim I will deal with my insurer directly if needed. 

In the past month, I was forced to deal with "AA World" (based in India) on renewal of my April International (France) policy, and it was a frustrating experience to say the least.  AA World seemed motivated to sell a new policy to me rather than answer my questions, so I dealt directly with April International France.  I was pleasantly surprised at their responsiveness, ease with which you can make an appointment to speak with a live person and ability to properly answer questions. 

 

I did renew my policy again, but to shield me from the frustration of "AA World", I requested that they be removed from my policy in their role as Insurance Consultant so that none of my insurance premium will go into their pockets as any kind of renewal commission.  

[scubascuba3]

43 minutes ago, FantasticMrFox said:

 

 

I did renew my policy again, but to shield me from the frustration of "AA World", I requested that they be removed from my policy in their role as Insurance Consultant so that none of my insurance premium will go into their pockets as any kind of renewal commission.  

Usually they can't do that, i tried to get AA removed from my Axa PA cover, Axa said cannot, need to cancel\end policy and start again 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

21 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Usually they can't do that, i tried to get AA removed from my Axa PA cover, Axa said cannot, need to cancel\end policy and start again 

AXA is on a bit of shaky ground on this, although many insurers will support their brokers and will discourage policyholders from "going direct" after a broker has arranged or renewed cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

AXA is on a bit of shaky ground on this, although many insurers will support their brokers and will discourage policyholders from "going direct" after a broker has arranged or renewed cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep it's a commission thing, they introduced the business, understandable Axa in my example need to pay the broker commission each year

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yep it's a commission thing, they introduced the business, understandable Axa in my example need to pay the broker commission each year

If you really don't want to deal with the broker, you are fully within your rights to fire them. You would need to write to the broker and advise them that they're no longer authorized to represent you. You would then have to send a copy of that letter to the insurer with a cover letter instructing them to deal directly with you.

 

Commissions are contingent upon the broker's continuing role as your agent. Simply referring the business one time doesn't entitle a broker to commissions on subsequent renewals if their appointment is rescinded. Any commissions they earned prior to their being fired would be theirs to keep, so firing a broker should be timed for before any renewal activity on the policy in question is commenced.

 

It is unlikely that you'd get the insurer to rebate the commission to you, so the premium would not change, and on a PA policy all the above may not be worth the bother.

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, FantasticMrFox said:

In the past month, I was forced to deal with "AA World" (based in India) on renewal of my April International (France) policy, and it was a frustrating experience to say the least.  AA World seemed motivated to sell a new policy to me rather than answer my questions, so I dealt directly with April International France.  I was pleasantly surprised at their responsiveness, ease with which you can make an appointment to speak with a live person and ability to properly answer questions. 

 

I did renew my policy again, but to shield me from the frustration of "AA World", I requested that they be removed from my policy in their role as Insurance Consultant so that none of my insurance premium will go into their pockets as any kind of renewal commission.  

I also renewed my premium directly (actually even when it was AA, I always had to pay the premium direct to April, only difference was that AA used to send me a reminder, this time I had to remember on my own.

 

Renewals aren't a big issue but I will surely miss Jenny's assistance with claims  for things not paid direct to hospital (e.g. out patient after care, and day surgeries<$2,000 that did not need pre-approval).

 

Continue to want to find a good broker handling international policies. Surprised nto a single person so far can suggest one.  @Etaoin Shrdlu any suggestions? I can find plenty online but no idea which are more solid.

[FantasticMrFox]

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

usually they can't do that, i tried to get AA removed from my Axa PA cover, Axa said cannot, need to cancel\end policy and start again 

April did tell me that formal notice to change the insurance consultant must be given at least two months before the anniversary date of the policy.  I argued that by the same token, I should be given the same advance notice on April's change in insurance consultant.  This year's premium notice still showed the insurance consultant as the old company "AA Insurance Brokers", and it was only after I paid the premium one month later that I noticed April made the change to "Alliance Insurance Services" (AA World in India).