Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists? Hear it HERE…Straight from the Horse’s Mouth!

[Lacessit]

Just now, bignok said:

Look it up

I already have, and posted it. You've got nothing, apart from bluster.

Let me guess - you were a schoolyard bully as a kid?

[bignok]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I already have, and posted it. You've got nothing, apart from bluster.

Let me guess - you were a schoolyard bully as a kid?

No you are just cherry picking stuff. 1 month big whoop. Just childish nonsense.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

No you are just cherry picking stuff. 1 month big whoop. Just childish nonsense.

The trend is obvious. Not to you, apparently.

You have not posted one shred of proof I am wrong. Just the usual begging the question.

[MrJ2U]

10 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

informal discussion

Hiarious take on religion.

Definitely worth a watch!

 

 

 

"Commentator-comic Bill Maher plays devil's advocate with religion as he talks to believers about their faith. Traveling around the world, Maher examines the tenets of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and raises questions about homosexuality, proof of Christ's existence, Jewish Sabbath laws, violent Muslim extremists."

 

https://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1449263129/?ref_=ext_shr

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Hiarious take on religion.

Definitely worth a watch!

 

 

 

"Commentator-comic Bill Maher plays devil's advocate with religion as he talks to believers about their faith. Traveling around the world, Maher examines the tenets of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and raises questions about homosexuality, proof of Christ's existence, Jewish Sabbath laws, violent Muslim extremists."

 

https://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1449263129/?ref_=ext_shr

Another guy no talent.

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Some recent ones, perhaps? I suspect the ones from the last dozen decades would be rather thin pickings.

No doubt,

But there are  more than a few. But this is not the point, The point is that the claim in the title is "Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists?  "

First let me point out that "Almost" and "Invariably "are diametrically opposed concepts .It is like saying "Always sometimes". 

But nonetheless , regardless of when one was born since there were very many smart people who were religiose , many of them Nobel prize winners , the title statement does not stand. Perhaps if he was to change it to "Presently" and " most" I might agree,  

 

[MrJ2U]

6 minutes ago, bignok said:

Another guy no talent.

Don't be so hard on yourself. 

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Don't be so hard on yourself. 

You are easily pleased.

[Golden Triangle]

<deleted> !!! 

 

I must have dreamt that you had retired or been awarded a lifetime ban, never mind. I'll just keep dreaming.  

[Walker88]

27 minutes ago, bignok said:

You are easily pleased.

I understand Bill Maher does not appeal to everybody. He is quite intelligent, so the lesser IQs out there might find his brand of comedy over their heads. He also is a true moderate, taking shots at both extremes in right-left ideology. That upsets some on the left, hence he is partially 'cancelled'.

 

He appeals to those of higher intellect and higher levels of education. He loses that demographic who occupy space a standard deviation or two left of the mean on the IQ Bell Curve, the area now known as trumpistan.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Walker88

[connda]

Except for the ones that see a case for quantum physics within Buddhist doctrine.
I'd imagine that those whose background is in theoretical physics would gravitate toward either Buddhism or Hinduism as both address 'reality' that can only be accessed via deep meditative states and a paradoxical understanding of the human state and the nature of 'reality.'

Case in point - Ajahn Brahm (Buddhist Society of Western Australia) who was a student of Ajahn Chah (Wat Pa Nanachart/Wat Pa Pong) here in Thailand.  Ajahn Brahm (Peter Betts) training was in Theoretical Physics. There are numerous Western Theravadan monk with educational pedigree such as Ajahn Brahm.  Why?  The seemingly unexplainable paradoxes in Buddhism tend to align to the equally unexplainable paradoxes in nature that theoretical physics addresses.  These highly intelligent individuals get a glimpse of "reality" beyond mundane reality and down the path they go. 
My guess is that those geniuses who explore the twisted 'realities' of theoretical physics, nihilistically, as they don't see any practical manner to explain the paradoxes - become atheists.  Those who embrace Buddhism or Hinduism also embrace meditative practices, and many of those may have had prior experiences with hallucinogens.  Both kick your mind out of the mundane.

So I agree with you to a point.  But you missed the Schrodinger's 2 ton elephant sitting in the room beside you.  ????

Edited July 27, 2023 by connda

[Photoguy21]

We keep an open mind on all questions regarding belief.

[bignok]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

I understand Bill Maher does no appeal to everybody. He is quite intelligent, so the lesser IQs out there might find his brand of comedy over their heads. He also is a true moderate, taking shots at both extremes in right-left ideology. That upsets some on the left, hence he is partially 'cancelled'.

 

He appeals to those of higher intellect and higher levels of education. He loses that demographic who occupy space a standard deviation or two left of the mean on the IQ Bell Curve, the area now known as trumpistan.

His IQ is pretty ordinary. Watched his interview with Dr Phil. Maher looked like a goose.

[bignok]

Phil - smart guy

Bill - flog

[Lacessit]

23 minutes ago, bignok said:

Another guy no talent.

Apart from being an annoying troll, at which you excel, what talent do you have?

[Keep Right]

Maybe it has something to do with this scripture from the bible:

 

At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;

Matthew 11:25

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Apart from being an annoying troll, at which you excel, what talent do you have?

Bignok knows his cricket!

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Bignok knows his cricket!

Just about every Aussie does, that comes under general knowledge.

Naughty Owl, trying to lure me off topic.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Lacessit

[Walker88]

35 minutes ago, connda said:

Except for the ones that see a case for quantum physics within Buddhist doctrine.
I'd imagine that those whose background is in theoretical physics would gravitate toward either Buddhism or Hinduism as both address 'reality' that can only be accessed via deep meditative states and a paradoxical understanding of the human state and the nature of 'reality.'

 

I think this lends too much credence to faiths made up by folks who knew nothing, but did know reality must be complex. Nothing scientific comes from meditation, but rather---per Francis Bacon---only from a method of test, repetition, and peer review. Insights are possible, but without testing and repetition, they mean nothing. They are merely superstitions or conjectures.

 

Folks who started most ancient religions began with an assumption that is increasingly suspect, which is that human consciousness is anything but material. Then most dressed it up with hopes, opinions or outright delusions about continued existence or repeat existences of something that looks like nothing more than chemistry and electromagnetism. The brain was just a pile of mush to them, unaware of its microscopic structure, electric charges, hormones and other chemicals, etc. Their 'insights' were at best, dumb luck, and more likely meaningless.

 

Those who believe human consciousness is more than material must get baffled by dementia and other forms of cognitive decline, or things like brain injury, lobotomies, brain tumors, etc., where often an entire personality changes as a result of physical destruction of neural pathways. Some people would believe that a person in severe cognitive decline, who forgets names, daily activities....eventually even how to swallow, instantly becomes fully cognizant again at the second the neurons stop firing.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Walker88

[Bangel72]

Religion might have some nonsense core around a revered being but it still can be useful and helpful to some people. Whether its done more harm than good is of course debatable.

 

Science does seem to lean heavily towards the idea they its incredibly unlikely that the majority of the current batches of religion have any real substance, the same arguments can usually be made about fairies and elves and other incredibly unlikely fantasy figures.

 

Scientifically is there any more likelihood of one of our religious entity existing than fairies? This is where some of the thinking struggles, how can one be absurd but the other not?

 

As science advances though there may be more belief in something else, the potential for virtual worlds is growing, where will it be in 1000 years time, will we be able to determine the difference between real and virtual at that point. If that has the potential to happen then we need to question has it happened already. Is there a potential god in this scenario, are we the gods?

 

Whilst I don't know and I don't believe any of the petty threats of damnation, Beardalorian sort of works for now. This is the way.

[Mark Nothing]

I ignored the concept of an omnipotent, all knowing God for most of my life.

 

After running off the tracks making all the normal mistakes in life, like beng atheist,  I decided to access this power by submitting prayers into the eather.

 

Magically the answers coming back changed my life. For the better.  Profound, unimaginable changes. Health, vitality, a return to an ailment free body, peace of mind all returned.

 

One of the keys was to only eat and drink natural God created food and water free of manmade chemical additives.

 

Another concept was to learn what medicine was used prior to our current manmade medicine after I noticed generation after generation of my family and friends going downhill.  I received the answer in the form of reading old books, youtube videos, and joining facebooks groups.  The omnipotent God created this perfect medicine specially made just for you which greatly supercedes inferior man made substances.  Urotherapy changed every aspect of my life.

 

I disagree with the premise of the title of this article and am living proof of the profound power available to all who desire it..

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Mark Nothing said:

I ignored the concept of an omnipotent, all knowing God for most of my life.

 

After running off the tracks making all the normal mistakes in life, like beng atheist,  I decided to access this power by submitting prayers into the eather.

 

Magically the answers coming back changed my life. For the better.  Profound, unimaginable changes. Health, vitality, a return to an ailment free body, peace of mind all returned.

 

One of the keys was to only eat and drink natural God created food and water free of manmade chemical additives.

 

Another concept was to learn what medicine was used prior to our current manmade medicine after I noticed generation after generation of my family and friends going downhill.  I received the answer in the form of reading old books, youtube videos, and joining facebooks groups.  The omnipotent God created this perfect medicine specially made just for you which greatly supercedes inferior man made substances.  Urotherapy changed every aspect of my life.

 

I disagree with the premise of the title of this article and am living proof of the profound power available to all who desire it..

I believe you are extracting the urine, not imbibing it.

[bignok]

1 hour ago, Mark Nothing said:

I ignored the concept of an omnipotent, all knowing God for most of my life.

 

After running off the tracks making all the normal mistakes in life, like beng atheist,  I decided to access this power by submitting prayers into the eather.

 

Magically the answers coming back changed my life. For the better.  Profound, unimaginable changes. Health, vitality, a return to an ailment free body, peace of mind all returned.

 

One of the keys was to only eat and drink natural God created food and water free of manmade chemical additives.

 

Another concept was to learn what medicine was used prior to our current manmade medicine after I noticed generation after generation of my family and friends going downhill.  I received the answer in the form of reading old books, youtube videos, and joining facebooks groups.  The omnipotent God created this perfect medicine specially made just for you which greatly supercedes inferior man made substances.  Urotherapy changed every aspect of my life.

 

I disagree with the premise of the title of this article and am living proof of the profound power available to all who desire it..

Good post.

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

 

 

After running off the tracks making all the normal mistakes in life, like beng atheist,  I decided to access this power by submitting prayers into the eather.

 

I disagree with the premise of the title of this article and am living proof of the profound power available to all who desire it..

Good for you that you've found something to make you happy. That you buy into it is great, but don't be surprised if others are skeptical.

 

I took just the opposite path to happiness: I realized when I was a teen that it was all just nonsense to make some people feel better, while allowing others control over weaker personalities. My pursuit of science and things that are real made me appreciate my finite existence much more, so that I endeavor to enjoy the here and now, and try to make those around me enjoy their here and now.

 

I think any faith, which folks are free to believe, should be required by law to have an omnipotent god, not a psychopathic or incompetent god like all faiths currently have. For one thing, an omnipotent god wouldn't need anyone to pray, since it would already know what you want. Second, it would not have all the worst features of Narcissists, like demanding praise for everything from food to one's kid passing a math exam, but get excused for its eff-ups, and getting all vindictive and vengeful when folks don't praise enough.

 

It wouldn't need its followers to do its wet work, such as executing infidels or removing love buds on females. It would have better quality control, so that post-birth modifications like clitoris removal are not necessary.

 

If it was "all loving" it wouldn't put kids in horrific pain from cancer. It wouldn't wipe out millions with earthquakes and tsunamis. It would have a much better 'master plan'.

 

Also, it would deliver more than parlor tricks like feeding many with a few bread and fish (while historically letting millions starve to death) or walking on water (where I grew up we call that 'skating'). Nobody's deity or deities would have to knock up a Earthgirl, then play deadbeat dad until sitting back and watching the kid get nailed...all supposedly as some bizarre initiation ceremony so others can get in his celestial country club.

 

As for the kid, he had 33 years to say outright that owning other humans is wrong. He never did. In fact, through a couple of his followers he supposedly just made rules for treating owned humans well. That makes him a bad guy and a useless deity.

 

Science has provided most of the answers to existence, and especially since the Renaissance has chipped away at all deities' supposed powers. Science is now on the verge of ending the discussion once and for all, both by uncovering the very nature of existence via quantum field theory and gravity, and also explaining the purely physical nature of consciousness. No 'souls' needed, except in poetry or love songs.

 

People will still be free to arrogantly believe that in a Universe of 200 billion galaxies each with an average of 1 trillion stars, most of which have planets, that a single person among 8 billion on one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy are somehow of significance to a deity. Such people won't understand the science of consciousness or quantum fields anyway, anymore than Flat Earthers never could comprehend a force called gravity. The Earth absolutely HAD TO BE flat, lest we all fall off. If that made them happy, good for them, just as it comforts people to think they are significant in ways other than what they make of themselves in their interactions with those with whom they share time and space.

[JensenZ]

6 hours ago, Woof999 said:

There aren't too many on that list born in the last 50 years.

 

I think it's ridiculous to say that all super smart people are atheists. However, if I were a betting man (which I am) and if there was any way of coming up with the real numbers (which there isn't) then I would lay a large stake on the fact that the vast majority of super smart people, who do not live in a territory where a fixed religion is almost compulsory (the USA only just escapes that label), absolutely do not believe in a religious god.

I count over 50 in the main list, and over a 100 in the other lists. Most of these scientists were born in the modern era of science, from 1900 onwards.

 

"Religious God" or a non-religious God, if there's a belief in either, then you're not an Athiest. The word does not distinguish what kind of God people don't believe in.

 

 

[JensenZ]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

No doubt,

But there are  more than a few. But this is not the point, The point is that the claim in the title is "Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists?  "

First let me point out that "Almost" and "Invariably "are diametrically opposed concepts .It is like saying "Always sometimes". 

But nonetheless , regardless of when one was born since there were very many smart people who were religiose , many of them Nobel prize winners , the title statement does not stand. Perhaps if he was to change it to "Presently" and " most" I might agree,  

 

What makes it even more twisted is that he asks it as a quesion, therefore suggesting it's already an established fact.

 

He clears up the confusion later on in his first post, by stating (quote): 

 

"It is a well known fact that ALL (sic) scientists are atheists"

 

The "almost" has disappeared, so now it is not only a fact, but a well known one, and note that ALL was capatilized to remove any doubt.

Edited July 27, 2023 by JensenZ

[Woof999]

10 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I count over 50 in the main list, and over a 100 in the other lists. Most of these scientists were born in the modern era of science, from 1900 onwards.

I counted about 7 in the list that had a specified birth date after 1972. Didn't touch the other lists. I would think that the number of "super smart" (how do you actually define super smart?) people that are atheists has been on the increase for generations.

 

10 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

"Religious God" or a non-religious God, if there's a belief in either, then you're not an Athiest. The word does not distinguish what kind of God people don't believe in.

Then the term god needs defining further. If their god provides intelligent design, has consciousness or created man in "his" image then I'd happily put them all in the same asylum, religious or not.

 

[JensenZ]

32 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I counted about 7 in the list that had a specified birth date after 1972. Didn't touch the other lists. I would think that the number of "super smart" (how do you actually define super smart?) people that are atheists has been on the increase for generations.

 

Then the term god needs defining further. If their god provides intelligent design, has consciousness or created man in "his" image then I'd happily put them all in the same asylum, religious or not.

 

I only made the distinction because you used the term "religious God", suggesting more than one type of God. Perhaps it is best if you explain what you mean by the term "religious God".

 

I'll just stick to an accepted definition of God or Deity. "A deity or god is a supernatural being who is considered divine or sacred". There is no need to delve into what a particular God did or whether they created anything, as different Gods did different things, depending on personal beliefs. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by JensenZ

[Woof999]

6 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I only made the distinction because you used the term "religious God", suggesting more than one type of God. Perhaps it is best if you explain what you mean by the term "religious God".

 

I'll just stick to an accepted definition of God or Deity. "A deity or god is a supernatural being who is considered divine or sacred". There no need to delve into what a particular God did or whether they created anything, as different Gods did different things, depending on personal beliefs. 

Understood. I make the distinction because some might call whatever caused the universe to exist "God", if there was such a thing and whether it can be explained by science or not. If an when we gain that knowledge then I'd happily believe in it, whatever it's called.

 

By religious god I mean the god of the bible, or the Quran etc. I'd also lump in the gods of the ancients - Thor etc. I'll call them the fairytale gods for want of a better term.

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Understood. I make the distinction because some might call whatever caused the universe to exist "God", if there was such a thing and whether it can be explained by science or not. If an when we gain that knowledge then I'd happily believe in it, whatever it's called.

 

By religious god I mean the god of the bible, or the Quran etc. I'd also lump in the gods of the ancients - Thor etc. I'll call them the fairytale gods for want of a better term.

One thing is certain, the existence of the universe will never be explained by science, and most of the theories read like fairy tales.  

 

However, what an atheist is is well established. They doesn't believe in the existence of a supernatural being. As to what God people believe in... billions of people are touting the existence of one type of God or another, and wars have been fought over it for millenia. There's even a branch of religion called "theistic evolution".