Those who have had their accounts closed by UK banks

[doctormann]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Barclays try to take a holistic view of their customers so you (& me paying £17 pm) are way back in the queue of "Customers we are going to close accounts on", especially as I'm sure you have a lot more money/assets in your International account than the average Joe has in their account 

 

If they do finally decide to close it (It is not your job, they notify you, they close it) they have to give you at least 3 (might be 6 now after the recent Farang palaver) which is plenty of time to reorganise DD/SO's etc... 

Ha-ha!  If I had a lot of money in my international account (>100k GBP) then I would not be paying their 40 GBP per month fee.  They really only want well heeled customers and I'm afraid that I don't qualify!

 

I don't know about them taking a holistic view - they seem to be going after any account holder who is not 'normally resident' in the UK.  Being resident for tax purposes - and paying UK income tax on pensions - doesn't help at all.

[nglodnig]

Update on my story if anybody is interested - Barclays are cancelling me in November (although interestingly if I can't get things sorted out by then the apologist crony from them said I could keep the account open for a few MONTHS (not years) longer)  so I've been searching other LEGIT (i.e. not using fake UK addresses which is FRAUD chaps) means.

 

I registered with WISE but am uniimpressed. They don't FEEL like a bank

I tried all the other "big four" (as they used to be) banks international offering and found them much of a muchness - gives us a hundred grand, stick in the account and don't touch it. Yeah right effectively paying this amount for the privilege of a bank account. Except one -

 

Lloyds  need an income to start with of 50k GBP a year OR deposit 25k (which I think you can take it after a "certain period"). After that, so long as you pay them GBP7.50 a month there are no other income requirements. As I haven't retired yet I can qualify. Joining was a bit of a long-drawn out process but I have FINALLY got it working, Internet banking and all.

[scottiejohn]

5 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

I registered with WISE but am uniimpressed. They don't FEEL like a bank

That is because they are not a bank!

They are a "Financial Service"!

[The Fugitive]

9 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

Update on my story if anybody is interested - Barclays are cancelling me in November (although interestingly if I can't get things sorted out by then the apologist crony from them said I could keep the account open for a few MONTHS (not years) longer)  so I've been searching other LEGIT (i.e. not using fake UK addresses which is FRAUD chaps) means.

 

I registered with WISE but am uniimpressed. They don't FEEL like a bank

I tried all the other "big four" (as they used to be) banks international offering and found them much of a muchness - gives us a hundred grand, stick in the account and don't touch it. Yeah right effectively paying this amount for the privilege of a bank account. Except one -

 

Lloyds  need an income to start with of 50k GBP a year OR deposit 25k (which I think you can take it after a "certain period"). After that, so long as you pay them GBP7.50 a month there are no other income requirements. As I haven't retired yet I can qualify. Joining was a bit of a long-drawn out process but I have FINALLY got it working, Internet banking and all.

Thanks for your up-date. Most helpful information!

[OJAS]

On 7/27/2023 at 5:34 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

I looked through their terms and conditions, and there is a line which says your account may be closed "If you're no longer legally resident in the UK" - Now, you can argue that two ways, but I would say that's there to protect themselves against foreigners who overstay or otherwise infringe the Immigration Rules. As British citizens we have the Right of Abode in the UK and it should not be interpreted to apply to us.

However Barclays' terms and conditions state that they can close an onshore account if they find out that you're not eligible for it, including if "You (or a joint account holder) reside outside the UK or do not have leave to remain in the UK". This implies to me that Barclays at least do have non-resident British nationals in mind.

 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/content/dam/documents/personal/site-hygiene/BAR_9910542_UK 10.18.pdf

and scroll down to page 20.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by OJAS

[hotandsticky]

15 hours ago, nglodnig said:

 

 

I registered with WISE but am unimpressed. They don't FEEL like a bank

 

They are very good at what they do

[OJAS]

15 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

That is because they are not a bank!

They are a "Financial Service"!

Indeed Wise are not a bank - and they are most certainly not covered by the £85k Financial Services Compensation Scheme deposit guarantee which applies to onshore UK banks. IMHO while a Wise account might well provide a stopgap way of dealing with the immediate consequences of onshore UK bank account closures, it would be most inadvisable to treat it as being an alternative permanent long-term solution to UK personal banking needs.

Edited August 31, 2023 by OJAS

[hotandsticky]

15 hours ago, nglodnig said:

Update on my story if anybody is interested - Barclays are cancelling me in November (although interestingly if I can't get things sorted out by then the apologist crony from them said I could keep the account open for a few MONTHS (not years) longer)  so I've been searching other LEGIT (i.e. not using fake UK addresses which is FRAUD chaps) means. 

It is perfectly OK to have a UK correspondence address that is, say, a family member.

 

 

That is what I have.

[hotandsticky]

Just now, OJAS said:

Indeed they are not - and they are most certainly not covered by the £85k Financial Services Compensation Scheme deposit guaranteee which applies to onshore UK banks. IMHO while a Wise account might well provide a stopgap way of dealing with the immediate consequences of onshore UK bank account closures, it would be most unwise to regard it as a permanent long-term solution to UK personal banking needs.

Unless that is the only option available.

 

To be fair, it should be noted that Wise ARE regulated  -  it is just that they are not included under FSCS because they are not a bank.

 

If I had, say, up to 50k to place somewhere it would be Premium Savings Bonds - using my WISE account as the linked bank account.

[nglodnig]

6 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

It is perfectly OK to have a UK correspondence address that is, say, a family member.

 

Being devils advocate here, what Barclays and other banks are saying is they don't want NON-residents. I don't really care what you are doing but having a correspondence address (i.e. a post box effectively) is NOT the same as being resident. If you are asked to prove it (which you probably won't) you would need things like utility bills in your name.

[doctormann]

15 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

Being devils advocate here, what Barclays and other banks are saying is they don't want NON-residents. I don't really care what you are doing but having a correspondence address (i.e. a post box effectively) is NOT the same as being resident. If you are asked to prove it (which you probably won't) you would need things like utility bills in your name.

Quite right.  At one time, Barclaycard were asking for Council Tax bills to prove residence.  This proved unworkable but other proof of residence was required and I strongly suspect that Barclays Bank will not just accept a relative's address, for instance.  What irritates me about this is that you can be resident for tax purposes - and paying income tax on pensions - but this is not acceptable.  You have to be 'Ordinarily Resident'. 

 

All done in the name of money laundering, which is a nonsense for a pensioner, who needs some sort of an account to receive payments.  Yes, I know that the State Pension can be paid directly into a foreign account but this is not always the case for occupational pensions.  Yes, I know about 'Wise', who at least will provide a UK sort code, but using them is not without its problems.  Many reports on this forum of people having difficulties - seems to work OK for some but certainly not all.

 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, nglodnig said:

Being devils advocate here, what Barclays and other banks are saying is they don't want NON-residents. I don't really care what you are doing but having a correspondence address (i.e. a post box effectively) is NOT the same as being resident. If you are asked to prove it (which you probably won't) you would need things like utility bills in your name.

I never suggested that having a correspondence address equated to residency.

 

I guarantee that it would be less likely that UK banks would look to sever a relationship where a UK address was on file. 

 

As you indicated, going as far as reproving addresses is not on the current agenda. Low hanging fruit - if you have a foreign address, or a non-resident marker on your account, you are a much easier target.

 

The cost of regulatory compliance is the reason for declining new non-resident accounts..........closing existing non-resident accounts is the next logical step in the process.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

Quite right.  At one time, Barclaycard were asking for Council Tax bills to prove residence.  This proved unworkable but other proof of residence was required and I strongly suspect that Barclays Bank will not just accept a relative's address, for instance.  What irritates me about this is that you can be resident for tax purposes - and paying income tax on pensions - but this is not acceptable.  You have to be 'Ordinarily Resident'. 

 

All done in the name of money laundering, which is a nonsense for a pensioner, who needs some sort of an account to receive payments.  Yes, I know that the State Pension can be paid directly into a foreign account but this is not always the case for occupational pensions.  Yes, I know about 'Wise', who at least will provide a UK sort code, but using them is not without its problems.  Many reports on this forum of people having difficulties - seems to work OK for some but certainly not all.

 

What difficulties have been reported with WISE? 

 

I have not experienced anything negative, worthy of 'reporting', in the last 5 years.

 

Not my main 'bank' but certainly my only currency transfer provider.

[Autonuaq]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:44 AM, CharlieKo said:

I think you'll find that unless you have a UK address linked to your Bank account. There is no obligation for UK banks to keep your account open. 

 

Even then I received a letter from my bank, saying they were aware I was living in Thailand and asking for my tax details here in Thailand. If I was not able to provide those details they would have closed my account. 

I am a non native English speaker. and since this happened to me as well i can share with you the source on which the request is based on.  this request about the tax statement is based on the international agreement that tells where and in which area your world income falls. that areas/country is responsible and allowed to collect the taxes.

 

Dual residence

In some cases, two countries could consider you a tax-resident at the same time, and both could require you to pay taxes on your total worldwide income. Fortunately, many countries have double tax agreements, which usually provide rules to determine which of the two countries can treat you as a resident.

If the tax treaty does not provide a solution or if your situation is particularly complicated, contact the tax authorities of one or both countries and ask them to clarify your situation.

 

Thailand is one of them who has the double tax agreement with many countries.

 

Inkomstenbelasting in het buitenland - Your Europe (europa.eu)Income taxes abroad - Your Europe (europa.eu)

 

Thailand: tax treaties - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

International treaty
Thailand: tax treaties
Tax treaties and related documents between the UK and Thailand.

[doctormann]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

What difficulties have been reported with WISE? 

 

I have not experienced anything negative, worthy of 'reporting', in the last 5 years.

 

Not my main 'bank' but certainly my only currency transfer provider.

The main difficulty - reported many times on this forum - relates to the seeming inability of Wise to guarantee that international transactions actually show up as such on passbooks and statements.  This causes problems with immigration when renewing permissions to stay.  Maybe not insurmountable - and may depend on which Thai bank that you use - but just another hassle that I can do without.

 

I don't use Wise so, personally, have no problems with them.

[hotandsticky]

24 minutes ago, doctormann said:

The main difficulty - reported many times on this forum - relates to the seeming inability of Wise to guarantee that international transactions actually show up as such on passbooks and statements.  This causes problems with immigration when renewing permissions to stay.  Maybe not insurmountable - and may depend on which Thai bank that you use - but just another hassle that I can do without.

 

I don't use Wise so, personally, have no problems with them.

OK....that is not a WISE issue.

 

They do in fact have a 'funds for long term stay in Thailand ' option as they reason for transfer.

 

Immigration are the culprits here, insisting on more than just bank statement evidence.

 

In my case I have to get a certification from Kasikorn bank in Pattaya to evidence the monthly transfers.

 

 

[OJAS]

12 hours ago, doctormann said:

The main difficulty - reported many times on this forum - relates to the seeming inability of Wise to guarantee that international transactions actually show up as such on passbooks and statements. 

The main difficulty to which you refer actually lies with Thai banks rather than Wise. None of them, apart from Bangkok Bank, seem capable, for some mysterious reason, of assigning specific descriptors in statements and passbooks to identify transactions originating from abroad, as per Bangkok Bank's "International transfer" and FTT (standing for Foreign Telegraphic Transfer) descriptors.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by OJAS

[lungbing]

My bank here  is Kasikorn.  I transferred my pension from  HSBC UK today at 10am and it  arrived in my Kasikorn account at 4pm and was marked FTT, as has been every transfer for the past many years.

[treetops]

11 hours ago, OJAS said:

The main difficulty to which you refer actually lies with Thai banks rather than Wise. None of them, apart from Bangkok Bank, seem capable, for some mysterious reason, of assigning specific descriptors in statements and passbooks to identify transactions originating from abroad, as per Bangkok Bank's "International transfer" and FTT (standing for Foreign Telegraphic Transfer) descriptors.

Wise's MO is to take your money in your home country and stick it in their account there, then pay you out in Thai baht from one of their accounts in Thailand.  That's why most banks see it as a domestic transfer.

 

When some embassies stopped giving out income letters for renewal of visa extensions this became an issue for many and Wise introduced a system to get round it (initially tagging accounts and now selecting the correct choice from a drop down menu).  This only seems to work with BBL however as that's the way its been set up (maybe one more bank?).

 

Regular SWIFT transfer will show correctly as coming from overseas. so the Thai banks' systems work as they should.

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, lungbing said:

My bank here  is Kasikorn.  I transferred my pension from  HSBC UK today at 10am and it  arrived in my Kasikorn account at 4pm and was marked FTT, as has been every transfer for the past many years.

nothing unexpected just how much they charge you and the below average exchange rate

[Mike Teavee]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:30 PM, doctormann said:

Ha-ha!  If I had a lot of money in my international account (>100k GBP) then I would not be paying their 40 GBP per month fee

Do you know if lodging 100K’s worth of stocks with them would waive the monthly fee?

 

I’ve had a quick look at the Barclays website & it does say “Investments” (not just cash). 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[lungbing]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

nothing unexpected just how much they charge you and the below average exchange rate

Not if you send GBP.  The conversion is done here and might be a tad below Wise.  HSBC charge a fiver.

[Rigsby]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:48 PM, nglodnig said:

Update on my story if anybody is interested - Barclays are cancelling me in November (although interestingly if I can't get things sorted out by then the apologist crony from them said I could keep the account open for a few MONTHS (not years) longer)  so I've been searching other LEGIT (i.e. not using fake UK addresses which is FRAUD chaps) means.

 

I registered with WISE but am uniimpressed. They don't FEEL like a bank

I tried all the other "big four" (as they used to be) banks international offering and found them much of a muchness - gives us a hundred grand, stick in the account and don't touch it. Yeah right effectively paying this amount for the privilege of a bank account. Except one -

 

Lloyds  need an income to start with of 50k GBP a year OR deposit 25k (which I think you can take it after a "certain period"). After that, so long as you pay them GBP7.50 a month there are no other income requirements. As I haven't retired yet I can qualify. Joining was a bit of a long-drawn out process but I have FINALLY got it working, Internet banking and all.

Hi nglodnig.

I applied for a Lloyds International Savings Account after reading your post, was provisionally accepted but have a few questions.

 

How long did it take the text message to come through with the code to upload the certified passport ?? It's been 3 days (not long I know) now and I've heard nothing yet.

 

They accepted my address which is in Pattaya, Thailand - that's a good start. But, the Proof of Residential Address is a problem as any utility bill doesn't have a name on it (and they are in Thai) and the Internet bills are online and in Thai.

 

I have no direct mail coming here from the UK.

How did you get around that problem and - as you were successful - did you have to get that document certified (as well as the passport) and then post it to them in the Isle of Man ??

 

Thanks and apologies for the long-winded question.

[nglodnig]

51 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

Proof of Residential Address is a problem

I imagine you would need your internet bills to get translated and certified. I seem to remember the responses were not the quickest but if you call their helpline it is actually "helpful" - use a Skype account or similar to contact them

[Rigsby]

28 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

I imagine you would need your internet bills to get translated and certified. I seem to remember the responses were not the quickest but if you call their helpline it is actually "helpful" - use a Skype account or similar to contact them

OK many thanks. Will get into that. 

 

How would I get an internet bill translated ?? I've never had to do anything like that before

Edited September 18, 2023 by Rigsby
add more text

[dayo202]

14 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

OK many thanks. Will get into that. 

 

How would I get an internet bill translated ?? I've never had to do anything like that before

Ask your Thai Bank to print you a statement with your name, Thai address in English language.

 

 

[Rigsby]

2 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

Ask your Thai Bank to print you a statement with your name, Thai address in English language.

 

 

Thanks dayo202.

[placnx]

On 9/18/2023 at 3:11 PM, Rigsby said:

Hi nglodnig.

I applied for a Lloyds International Savings Account after reading your post, was provisionally accepted but have a few questions.

 

How long did it take the text message to come through with the code to upload the certified passport ?? It's been 3 days (not long I know) now and I've heard nothing yet.

 

They accepted my address which is in Pattaya, Thailand - that's a good start. But, the Proof of Residential Address is a problem as any utility bill doesn't have a name on it (and they are in Thai) and the Internet bills are online and in Thai.

 

I have no direct mail coming here from the UK.

How did you get around that problem and - as you were successful - did you have to get that document certified (as well as the passport) and then post it to them in the Isle of Man ??

 

Thanks and apologies for the long-winded question.

In Chiang Mai utilities put my name in Western script but the address in Thai, so I asked the French consul to make a letter (in French) to explain that it was a phone bill and to give the address in Western script. That was for a French bank. As for my HSBC account, I changed from former US address to Thai address by going to the branch in London.

[phetphet]

On 9/18/2023 at 3:11 PM, Rigsby said:

Hi nglodnig.

I applied for a Lloyds International Savings Account after reading your post, was provisionally accepted but have a few questions.

 

How long did it take the text message to come through with the code to upload the certified passport ?? It's been 3 days (not long I know) now and I've heard nothing yet.

 

They accepted my address which is in Pattaya, Thailand - that's a good start. But, the Proof of Residential Address is a problem as any utility bill doesn't have a name on it (and they are in Thai) and the Internet bills are online and in Thai.

 

I have no direct mail coming here from the UK.

How did you get around that problem and - as you were successful - did you have to get that document certified (as well as the passport) and then post it to them in the Isle of Man ??

 

Thanks and apologies for the long-winded question.

Would a Thai driving licence work for proving your address?

[Rigsby]

16 hours ago, phetphet said:

Would a Thai driving licence work for proving your address?

It may well, but I don't have one.