I wonder why this didn't get to production ? Better than an a battery !

[Bandersnatch]

Interesting that the video posted from Top Gear is now 20 years old. Back in the studio James said that we would be driving H2 cars in 10-20 years time - that quote hasn’t aged well.

 

It all comes down to Economics, producing Green Hydrogen is just too expensive. 

 

When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is a small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. 
 
With current electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost across the full cycle of production and use.

 

The claim that we can make H2 from Nuclear doesn’t make sense as Nuclear produced electricity is so expensive. Hinkley Point C in the UK contract cost for producing electricity is £92.50/ MWh with the price rising with inflation every year v Wind power than is currently £40/MWh with costs falling all the the time!

Edited August 10, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[sirineou]

14 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Snark aside I'm not sure you understood my prior arguments. Rare is a relative term. It does not mean there is not enough because not being enough depends on how much you need. Come on, it's not complicated. Show me that we need X amount but we only can feasably obtain Y amount. With that you'd convince me in a second.

Apologies if my reply was presided as "Snark" that was not the intent. 

Just an unsuccessful attempt at humor. 

There is a reason why rare earths are  rare and it's is not because they are rare in its distribution but difficult and expense in their extraction, and production. Much like drinking water being in short supply when 71% of the Earth's surface is water. Regardless of what makes rare Earths "Rare"  it does not change the fact that they are rare and for good reason,. Saying that. ok, then we will make them not rare, is an oversimplification IMO.

"There are several reasons why the US does not produce more rare earth minerals: 1. Environmental concerns: Mining and processing rare earth minerals can have significant environmental impacts. The US has stricter regulations and standards for environmental protection, making it difficult for mining companies to meet these requirements at a competitive cost. 2. Cost competitiveness: China currently dominates the rare earth minerals market due to its low labor and production costs. US companies would struggle to compete with Chinese producers who can supply these minerals at cheaper prices. 3. Limited reserves: The US has limited reserves of rare earth minerals compared to countries like China. Although there are known reserves in the US, they are not sufficient to meet the growing global demand. 4. Dependence on Chinese supply: The US is heavily reliant on China for rare earth mineral supply. This dependency makes it challenging for the US to develop a robust domestic production industry. Efforts to diversify supply sources and reduce dependence on China are underway, but it will take time to build a strong domestic supply chain. 5. Strategic considerations: Rare earth minerals are crucial for many industries, including defense and technology sectors. The US government may have concerns about relying too heavily on foreign sources for these critical minerals and is working to address the issue, but it requires significant investment and infrastructure development. It is important to note that the US government has recognized the need to secure a domestic supply of rare earth minerals and has taken steps to support the development of a domestic industry. However, it will take time and investment to overcome the challenges and build a competitive rare earth mineral production sector in the US. "

" Significant environmental impacts."

"Cost"

"Limited reserves "

"it will take time and investment to overcome the challenges and build a competitive rare earth mineral production sector in the US. "

Or

Hydrogen. 

IMO and the opinion of many other a no brainer, but if some want to jump from the frying pan of fossil fuels to the fire of rare earth minerals....

Anyway.

Thank you for engaging me in this conversation. 

[eisfeld]

Was that a ChatGPT reply? Anyways. Here's an article that might eliviate some of the fear about rare earth elements: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dont-panic-about-rare-earth-elements/

[eisfeld]

32 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

It all comes down to Economics, producing Green Hydrogen is just too expensive. 

 

When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is a small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. 
 
With current electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost across the full cycle of production and use.

 

The claim that we can make H2 from Nuclear doesn’t make sense as Nuclear produced electricity is so expensive. Hinkley Point C in the UK contract cost for producing electricity is £92.50/ MWh with the price rising with inflation every year v Wind power than is currently £40/MWh with costs falling all the the time!

Exactly. The efficiency of Hydrogen and the fuel cells is a real issue. Why would I use Hydrogen as a fuel to generate electricity when I can use electricity directly at half the price or less?

[pedro01]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:56 PM, JBChiangRai said:

Actually, the Hindenburg didn’t crash, it caught fire.

 

Actually - it caught fire then crashed ????

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Actually - it caught fire then crashed ????

Pedro the pedantic?

 

????

[pedro01]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Pedro the pedantic?

 

????

Precisely

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Precisely

Pedro the Precise Pedantic Person.