Phuket Man Faces Defamation Charge After Posting Clip of Police Stop on TikTok

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Always film and shame on social media,  only once one has left Thailand and of course under an unidentified name on the specific websites.

You can film and share the video. Just don't add stupid defaming commentary to it. Let people draw their own conclusions. So film and share. Don't film and shame.

[Zapitapi]

10 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

What does that matter regarding a defamation charge?

hmm.. the very basis of defamation is to explicitly produce false statements to reduce or ruin the reputation  ..if the statement is not false.....no defamation

 

 

[spidermike007]

19 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Hu? I don't get it. You said you hoped he used an anonymous account and VPN. He clearly didn't try to stay anonymous when he himself went to the police station.

Obviously, I was not aware of that "surrender". 

[BarraMarra]

How did the Tic Tocker know the BIB wanted a word in his ear ??

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, phetphet said:

Did the video actually show Thai law breakers being allowed to pass (maybe no helmet) and foreigners being stopped?

 

Would be difficult to deny if he just posted said video without comment.

 

 

Yes. Most Thais do not wear helmets on the islands. I saw many Thais being waved through on my recent trip at multiple check points when in Phuket recently. And most of the time they waved me over. I did not stop once. Just kept right on going. They screamed at me, but did not give chase. They are looking for easy marks, and I have no interest in being one for them. Wearing a good helmet and have a Thai motorbike license, so I have little patience for their fund raising campaigns. See ya! 

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, still kicking said:

Oh not another one you must know they pull up farangs and hardly Thais and no I wasn't there 

Actually in Chiang Mai they pull up Thais and wave foreigners through.

So not all the police are playing the same game.

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Yes. Most Thais do not wear helmets on the islands. I saw many Thais being waved through on my recent trip at multiple check points when in Phuket recently. And most of the time they waved me over. I did not stop once. Just kept right on going. They screamed at me, but did not give chase. They are looking for easy marks, and I have no interest in being one for them. Wearing a good helmet and have a Thai motorbike license, so I have little patience for their fund raising campaigns. See ya! 

That's not making things better. If enough people do that they'll try to find ways to stop people from running away and that might not be very safe. Just stop, show them your license and be waved on, what's the big deal? They stop the foreigners in these areas because the vast vast majority of them have no helmet or license and can easily afford to pay and never learn. I've known plenty of foreigners that didn't care and just saw it as a nuisance. I have helmet and license and don't get fined. I actually rarely get even stopped because I don't signal from afar that I'm an illegal rider.

 

There are other places in Phuket where the police stops a lot of Thais, mainly around the Phuket Town area.

[FruitPudding]

1 hour ago, Zapitapi said:

hmm.. the very basis of defamation is to explicitly produce false statements to reduce or ruin the reputation  ..if the statement is not false.....no defamation

 

 

Wrong.

 

You better read Thai law.

 

There's no mention in the Thai penal code that your statement needs to be false.

 

Even if what you are saying is true, if you publicly impair someone's reputation, it's still defamation.

 

They main element of this law is that you: public impaired someone's reputation. That's it. Nothing about falsehood.

 

Private conversations are okay. You can say what you want -- even lies -- but not publicly -- even if what you are saying is true, it is still illegal to damage someone's reputation in Thailand.

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-defamation-sections-326-333/

 

Section 326. Defamation

 

"Whoever, imputes anything to the other person before a third person in a manner likely to impair the reputation of such other person or to expose such other person to be hated or scorned, is said to commit defamation, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not exceeding twenty thousand Baht, or both."

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by FruitPudding

[circa02]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Actually in Chiang Mai they pull up Thais and wave foreigners through.

So not all the police are playing the same game.

Certainly not waving foreigners through in two common locations - around the inner moat road, and just before the incline to doi suthep begins. You'd only get waved through if they recognized that they fined you earlier.

 

[wwest5829]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

How can it be defamation if they're doing their job correctly? ????????

His statement can be taken as an accusation “Chalong Police want money from everyone”. 

[wwest5829]

19 minutes ago, circa02 said:

Certainly not waving foreigners through in two common locations - around the inner moat road, and just before the incline to doi suthep begins. You'd only get waved through if they recognized that they fined you earlier.

 

Was going up Doi Suthep and certainly was pulled over, along with others. No issue for me, greeted the fellow and stated that I have lived in Chiang Mai for more than ten years already (while showing my Thai Driver’s License). Cop complimented me of having a Thai Wife and off we went. Just does not bother me. If the officer had seen me before, then I am often waved through.

[RocketDog]

9 hours ago, bob smith said:

Phuket has some of the most corrupt police officers in the country.

 

Having spent extended periods there in the past, I have been stopped numerous times.

 

It was always the same story. Locals got waved through, farangs had to pay.

 

Disgusting and shameful but I have come to expect nothing less from the RTP.

So you've learned the lesson.

I went to Phuket once and Pattaya once. They were everything I imagined them to be.

I won't be going again.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Same in Hua Hin where they just love to put up roadblocks at night mainly on the roads leading to the housing developpments in areas very populair with farangs. Wonder if the "fine" is with a receipt or not ?

[Dan O]

6 hours ago, Zapitapi said:

everyone that lived there knows its a daily occurrence..one could stand and watch how they pull 200 scooters out and not 1 of them isnt a foreigner   

The article is about 1 occurrence not "every day" as you posted. Based on the behavior of many "tourist" is it surprising they have check points everyday. If tourist acted appropriately there would be far less "targeting". I don't believe this guy in the video and his buddies were foreigner so your chasing the wrong issue here or just trying to make excuses with the same grumoy expat complaints.

[BritScot]

13 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Agreed, they are ruining it for the rest of us.

Bizzare!!!

[BritScot]

13 hours ago, bignok said:

Lots of dumb farangs in Phuket. Good on the cop.

Unbelievable!!! Very racist. Venom and hatred for foreigners makes me wonder why come on Thaivisa??? 

[BritScot]

13 hours ago, bignok said:

Lots of dumb farangs in Phuket. Good on the cop.

Unbelievable!!! Very racist. Venom and hatred for foreigners makes me wonder why come on Thaivisa??? 

[FruitPudding]

19 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Unbelievable!!! Very racist. Venom and hatred for foreigners makes me wonder why come on Thaivisa??? 

It truly is a phenomenon.

 

Half the guys on here are like that.

[bignok]

1 hour ago, BritScot said:

Unbelievable!!! Very racist. Venom and hatred for foreigners makes me wonder why come on Thaivisa??? 

Farangs arent a race. Oh dear.

[bignok]

57 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

It truly is a phenomenon.

 

Half the guys on here are like that.

So half are aware that lots of idiot farangs go to Phuket. 

[stevenl]

13 hours ago, bob smith said:

This certainly wasnt true when I was there.

 

They gave you a choice. Either you paid on the spot or you had to go to the police station miles away by taxi as they wouldn't let you drive your bike there until you had paid. 99% of people chose to pay on the spot fines.

 

Tea money in a jar.

Not talking about this stop are you? The police station is about 100 meters away.

[JensenZ]

16 hours ago, Dan O said:

Yeah I hate it when people can voice their opinion openly without reprocussion even when it's opposite of the establishment or popular views

That's the point of this report. It demonstrates the wide range of Thailand's defamation laws. In fact, if you defame the police here, you can be charged too if they were offended and took the time to track you down. It's a criminal offence which carries mandatory prison time and a fine, after which you will be deported.

 

I know of one foreigner who served 2 years for defaming his ex-wife. I defended a charge myself from a neighbour and had a court battle over it. I was lucky to win, but it cost a lot of money and several court hearings. I ended up negotiating a settlement. It's a popular gambit as most people will prefer to settle rather than do time.

 

Tread carefully and take this sh*t seriously.

 

 

[eisfeld]

5 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

It's a criminal offence which carries mandatory prison time and a fine, after which you will be deported.

There is no mandatory prison time. The law stipulates a maximum imprisonment of 1 year or a maximum of 20k THB fine or both. There is no minimum. Usually a low fine will be imposed. There is nothing about deporting at all in the relevant law because it doesn't deal with immigration.

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Wrong.

 

You better read Thai law.

 

There's no mention in the Thai penal code that your statement needs to be false.

 

Even if what you are saying is true, if you publicly impair someone's reputation, it's still defamation.

 

They main element of this law is that you: public impaired someone's reputation. That's it. Nothing about falsehood.

 

Private conversations are okay. You can say what you want -- even lies -- but not publicly -- even if what you are saying is true, it is still illegal to damage someone's reputation in Thailand.

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-defamation-sections-326-333/

 

Section 326. Defamation

 

"Whoever, imputes anything to the other person before a third person in a manner likely to impair the reputation of such other person or to expose such other person to be hated or scorned, is said to commit defamation, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not exceeding twenty thousand Baht, or both."

 

Exactly.... and the defamation laws are used by the powerful against those who may publicly expose their illegal behavior - In this case, used by the Police against someone attempting to expose their 'alleged'  illegal behavior in extorting foreign motorcyclists. 

 

The law in its current guise is an utter blight on Thailand's legal system and hinders progression of the nation. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, eisfeld said:

That's not making things better. If enough people do that they'll try to find ways to stop people from running away and that might not be very safe. Just stop, show them your license and be waved on, what's the big deal? They stop the foreigners in these areas because the vast vast majority of them have no helmet or license and can easily afford to pay and never learn. I've known plenty of foreigners that didn't care and just saw it as a nuisance. I have helmet and license and don't get fined.

 

Some valid points but I have to question your last point...

 

10 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I actually rarely get even stopped because I don't signal from afar that I'm an illegal rider.

How does one 'signal from afar' that they are an illegal rider (i.e. riding without a licence or tax, riding under the influence etc) ??

 

 

10 hours ago, eisfeld said:

There are other places in Phuket where the police stops a lot of Thais, mainly around the Phuket Town area.

In Bangkok too... I find that the BiB are 'generally' just not interested in stopping me (as a foreigner).... 

The best thing to do at night is to turn on the interior lights and open the windows so they can easily see you, it makes it obvious to them that there's nothing to hide.

On a motorcycle, open the visor, they can see you are a foreigner and wave you through. 

 

I've been waved through police stops and check points far more often than I've been asked to stop.

(i.e. perhaps a 1 in 50)... That said, I have also encountered police officers who are clearly up to no good (wanting to pull me out of a taxi for 'checks' etc)... 

 

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, JensenZ said:

That's the point of this report. It demonstrates the wide range of Thailand's defamation laws. In fact, if you defame the police here, you can be charged too if they were offended and took the time to track you down. It's a criminal offence which carries mandatory prison time and a fine, after which you will be deported.

 

I know of one foreigner who served 2 years for defaming his ex-wife. I defended a charge myself from a neighbour and had a court battle over it. I was lucky to win, but it cost a lot of money and several court hearings. I ended up negotiating a settlement. It's a popular gambit as most people will prefer to settle rather than do time.

 

Tread carefully and take this sh*t seriously.

 

 

i know about the defamation law and its seldom carried thru except by extremely wealthy individuals and companies and those are far fewer than the actual claims. It's used as a deterrent to scare people into submission. I find it interesting that you claim knowing someone that did 2 years in jail, especially a ex wife based on the laws in Thailand and how they deal with divorce and with women.  

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How does one 'signal from afar' that they are an illegal rider (i.e. riding without a licence or tax, riding under the influence etc) ??

Well obviously not wearing a helmet is a big giveaway but it's also stuff like shorts and flipflops on a scooter. Or for example new tourists that clearly drive in a manner that is different from the rest of the traffic. After a while you tend to be able to spot the usual suspects in those areas. Some of them the police already recognizes individually because they get caught over and over. It's a pretty ridicolous situation.

 

I ride with a full face helmet, have proper clothing etc. They know riders like that are usually not easy targets for missing license, insurance etc.

[JensenZ]

4 hours ago, Dan O said:

i know about the defamation law and its seldom carried thru except by extremely wealthy individuals and companies and those are far fewer than the actual claims. It's used as a deterrent to scare people into submission. I find it interesting that you claim knowing someone that did 2 years in jail, especially a ex wife based on the laws in Thailand and how they deal with divorce and with women.  

I've been through 2 defamation court cases. Once as the plaintiff (lost due to lawyer's negligence) and once as the defendent (ended in court mediation)... and then fought a civil case for compensation. 5 times in court in total. I'm not going to get into full details, but you don't know as much as you think you do.

[JensenZ]

8 hours ago, eisfeld said:

There is no mandatory prison time. The law stipulates a maximum imprisonment of 1 year or a maximum of 20k THB fine or both. There is no minimum. Usually a low fine will be imposed. There is nothing about deporting at all in the relevant law because it doesn't deal with immigration.

It's a criminal offence. When foreigners are charged with a criminal offense, their passports are confiscated as part of the bail conditions and your visa is cancelled. I would probably listen to the advice of the lawyers I hired.

 

Section 328. Defamation by Publication

If the offence of defamation be committed by means of publication of a document, drawing, painting, cinematography film, picture or letters made visible by any means, gramophone record or another recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means, the offender shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years and fined not exceeding two hundred thousand Baht.

 

 

[JensenZ]

18 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Wrong.

 

You better read Thai law.

 

There's no mention in the Thai penal code that your statement needs to be false.

 

Even if what you are saying is true, if you publicly impair someone's reputation, it's still defamation.

 

They main element of this law is that you: public impaired someone's reputation. That's it. Nothing about falsehood.

 

Private conversations are okay. You can say what you want -- even lies -- but not publicly -- even if what you are saying is true, it is still illegal to damage someone's reputation in Thailand.

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-defamation-sections-326-333/

 

Section 326. Defamation

 

"Whoever, imputes anything to the other person before a third person in a manner likely to impair the reputation of such other person or to expose such other person to be hated or scorned, is said to commit defamation, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not exceeding twenty thousand Baht, or both."

 

You're quoting the wrong section of the criminal code. Skip down to Section 328 - Defamation by publication. It's always much more serious if the defamation has been published, such as posting a Tiktok video. It's very hard to get out of it too as there is a public record of exactly what was said. The video would have been watched by millions of people hence the more severe punishment.