12 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

The database of votes is accessible to everyone. 

Database will have id number for each voter.  Password for each id number.  You can see everyones votes that agreed to public exhibition. Private can only see their own vote. 

Encryption and block chain technology ensures safety and reliability.  

 

 

A database that shows a lot of people voted, but you can't tell who these people are or who they voted for unless they choose to tell you.  How is that different from what we have now?

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

A database that shows a lot of people voted, but you can't tell who these people are or who they voted for unless they choose to tell you.  How is that different from what we have now?

Each person can see each others details amongst all the id numbers that choose to share.  An undeniable fact that their vote has been recorded correctly tallying up total amount. For those others  who choose to remain anonymous,  you can't check theirs so normally you could not be sure all is ok except for again one more  undeniable fact .i. e each of the private voters can see their own vote.  If they see a descrepency they can report it so then you still wont know their vote but know something went wrong. 

All through blockchain so ensures everyone is seeing the same list. 

And on certain days there will be. Lottery of prizes to give away.  Hehe. 

23 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Each person can see each others details amongst all the id numbers that choose to share.  An undeniable fact that their vote has been recorded correctly tallying up total amount. For those others  who choose to remain anonymous,  you can't check theirs so normally you could not be sure all is ok except for again one more  undeniable fact .i. e each of the private voters can see their own vote.  If they see a descrepency they can report it so then you still wont know their vote but know something went wrong. 

All through blockchain so ensures everyone is seeing the same list. 

And on certain days there will be. Lottery of prizes to give away.  Hehe. 

Then the blockchain gets hacked and corrupts all votes............lol

On 9/2/2023 at 5:46 PM, johnnybangkok said:

This is the power this man has over his people; even with irrefutable evidence, they still cannot accept that the most logical answer to all of this is Trump is simply lying. 

IMO the reason Trump won in the first place was that so many don't like or trust the federal government, and given the constant attacks against him for 4 years they probably have no problem believing that the Democrats cheated.

I don't know if they did or not, but I would not be surprised if they did.

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

All through blockchain so ensures everyone is seeing the same list. 

I have no idea what that is, but if anyone believes that anything on line is actually unhackable, I have a bridge for sale.

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Then the blockchain gets hacked and corrupts all votes............lol

And all your bitcoin coin gone too. 

The difference is.  You will know the votes have been compromised and a revote done.  Likely hood of that happening?  Not bloody. 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have no idea what that is, but if anyone believes that anything on line is actually unhackable, I have a bridge for sale.

Blockchain is basically a repetition of the database to every person so it can be compared with copies of itself. Hence very safe since every bodies computer would  need to be hacked instantaneously around the world. 

Bitcoin not hacked yet.  Either has apple encryption. Doesnt matter if hacked.  Your vote can't by used to buy anything like banking hacking.  Pull out the vote papers and reenter into database and let people chrck again.  Its not rocket science.  Really. Its not for IT people.  Open source is for the people by the people.  Oh No!  The guy is sounding like a commy now.  Haha.  Relax guys.  I'm not out to harm biden,  or trump for that matter. 

56 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

And all your bitcoin coin gone too. 

The difference is.  You will know the votes have been compromised and a revote done.  Likely hood of that happening?  Not bloody. 

There's hundreds of different blockchain networks, its highly unlikely to be on a crypto coin one. However the difference is when a crypto blockchain gets hacked you know because your coins are stolen. If a blockchain with the whole US voting system is hacked, those responsible could manipulate the votes without anyone knowing.

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

Blockchain is basically a repetition of the database to every person so it can be compared with copies of itself. Hence very safe since every bodies computer would  need to be hacked instantaneously around the world. 

Bitcoin not hacked yet.  Either has apple encryption. Doesnt matter if hacked.  Your vote can't by used to buy anything like banking hacking.  Pull out the vote papers and reenter into database and let people chrck again.  Its not rocket science.  Really. Its not for IT people.  Open source is for the people by the people.  Oh No!  The guy is sounding like a commy now.  Haha.  Relax guys.  I'm not out to harm biden,  or trump for that matter. 

Many blockchain hacks have happened on exchanges, which is where users can trade cryptocurrecy.

 

51% attacks: During the verification process, individuals referred to as “miners” will review the transactions to ensure they are genuine. When one or more hackers gain control over half of the mining process, there can be extremely negative consequences. For example, the miners can create a second version of the blockchain, referred to as a fork, where certain transactions are not reflected. This allows the miners to create an entirely different set of transactions on the fork and designate it as the true version of the blockchain

 

Sometimes, there may be security glitches or errors during creation of blockchain. This may be more common with larger, more intricate blockchains. When this occurs, hackers looking for a way in can identify the vulnerabilities and attempt an attack. This has transpired with smart contracts, which use a blockchain network to operate.

 

"Recently, blockchain hacks have drastically increased as hackers have discovered that vulnerabilities do in fact exist. Since 2017, public data shows that hackers have stolen around $2 billion in blockchain cryptocurrency."

https://www.epiqglobal.com/en-us/resource-center/articles/blockchain-can-be-hacked

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

There's hundreds of different blockchain networks, its highly unlikely to be on a crypto coin one. However the difference is when a crypto blockchain gets hacked you know because your coins are stolen. If a blockchain with the whole US voting system is hacked, those responsible could manipulate the votes without anyone knowing.

No.  Because,  evwryone gets to see it. 

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Many blockchain hacks have happened on exchanges, which is where users can trade cryptocurrecy.

 

51% attacks: During the verification process, individuals referred to as “miners” will review the transactions to ensure they are genuine. When one or more hackers gain control over half of the mining process, there can be extremely negative consequences. For example, the miners can create a second version of the blockchain, referred to as a fork, where certain transactions are not reflected. This allows the miners to create an entirely different set of transactions on the fork and designate it as the true version of the blockchain

 

Sometimes, there may be security glitches or errors during creation of blockchain. This may be more common with larger, more intricate blockchains. When this occurs, hackers looking for a way in can identify the vulnerabilities and attempt an attack. This has transpired with smart contracts, which use a blockchain network to operate.

 

"Recently, blockchain hacks have drastically increased as hackers have discovered that vulnerabilities do in fact exist. Since 2017, public data shows that hackers have stolen around $2 billion in blockchain cryptocurrency."

https://www.epiqglobal.com/en-us/resource-center/articles/blockchain-can-be-hacked

Forget about it being hacked. Its not important.  The end goal can still be achieved. 

3 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Forget about it being hacked. Its not important.  The end goal can still be achieved. 

The most secure defense system in the UK was hacked recently. The Russians won't forget. Those who lost millions in bitcoin don't forget

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The most secure defense system in the UK was hacked recently. The Russians won't forget. Those who lost millions in bitcoin don't forget

You've got nothing to lose.  Any changes to the database will be found. It could be an off line affair on a kind of intranet. Hacking doesnt matter in this situation so invite the hackers along.  Not sure how they will influence the vote without you knowing. 

If you have internet banking or an email address you better cancel them.  The hackers will get at it. 

3 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

You've got nothing to lose.  Any changes to the database will be found. It could be an off line affair on a kind of intranet. Hacking doesnt matter in this situation so invite the hackers along.  Not sure how they will influence the vote without you knowing. 

If you have internet banking or an email address you better cancel them.  The hackers will get at it. 

I think you are deliberately overlooking the Russians are not targeting my account. They would be targeting a US online voting system for a general election.

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I think you are deliberately overlooking the Russians are not targeting my account. They would be targeting a US online voting system for a general election.

And no way in hell would the russians or anyone affect the votes  that people laid down because its all checked with your own eyes.  The russions would have to cut out your eyes.  Their influence would be limited to current methods. I. E propaganda be it fact or fiction or opinion. 

3 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

And no way in hell would the russians or anyone affect the votes  that people laid down because its all checked with your own eyes.  The russions would have to cut out your eyes.  Their influence would be limited to current methods. I. E propaganda be it fact or fiction or opinion. 

Rubbish. Not everyone has access to the Blockchain. Only miners do. The access is through a network that needs setting up. Any vote manipulation can occur just a few hours or even minutes before the official count. 

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Rubbish. Not everyone has access to the Blockchain. Only miners do. The access is through a network that needs setting up. Any vote manipulation can occur just a few hours or even minutes before the official count. 

Well it wont be under your definiition of the kind of block chain it could be. Everyone will have access to the login page. It can be online or intranet at voting booths or a combibation (to be decided). 

And 1 minute before or after doesnt matter.  We can all check votes at any stage. 

No issues yet. 

 

As a side note.  A year ago I thought most of the public would have accepted thaksins side and Prayuts side having public electoral officials together  counting votes keeping an eye on any oversights .

Now.  Not so much.  Trust people.  No way Hosè

 

 

 

6 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Each person can see each others details amongst all the id numbers that choose to share.  An undeniable fact that their vote has been recorded correctly tallying up total amount. For those others  who choose to remain anonymous,  you can't check theirs so normally you could not be sure all is ok except for again one more  undeniable fact .i. e each of the private voters can see their own vote.  If they see a descrepency they can report it so then you still wont know their vote but know something went wrong. 

All through blockchain so ensures everyone is seeing the same list. 

And on certain days there will be. Lottery of prizes to give away.  Hehe. 

Each person can see a register saying a bunch of ID numbers voted?  So what?  How does that prevent fraud?

 

Some people claim that certain ID number represent their vote.  Maybe they proudly announce who they voted for, maybe they claim the vote for their ID number wasn't who they voted for.  Either they have to show proof that the ID number really is theirs (what kind of proof do you suggest they be given?) or the government has to maintain a database of ID numbers and associated voters.  Government databases can and have been hacked.

 

Some people keep their vote secret and others don't.  Perhaps the Democrats prefer secret voting and the Republicans favor announcing their votes to the world.  Before the election everyone following these matters state the obvious; more public votes will be for Republicans and more anonymous votes will be for Democrats.  After the votes are counted the Republicans point to the large proportion of anonymous votes for Democrats and claim that proves fraud, just as it happened with mail-in vs in-person voting in the 2020 election.  How has anything improved?

 

I could keep pecking at the holes in the overall logic of your "open vote" system, but instead let's look at feasibility.  Currently the states decide how to conduct elections.  That's required by the US Constitution.  So you either change the constitution or implement your system in each state.  However most states (all?) let local government decide on the nuts and bolt of voting--precinct boundaries, where to vote, and, most important of all, what kind of equipment to use.  Assuming the number of local governments making these decisions equals the number of counties in the US, that means over 3000 voting districts that have to be corrupted in some manner to hi-jack a national election. 

 

This widely dispersed decentralized system is the main safeguard against hacking of the entire national system; it would have to be thousands of hacks tailored to thousands of different voting systems.  You want to abandon that in favor of a centralized system which I assume would have a centralized database presenting a single high-value target for hacking.  You want to do this to implement a new, unproven system (new systems always create new problems) that doesn't present any improvements, safeguards against vote interference, or safeguards against false charges of vote interference.

 

Your system would be far more centralized and so far more vulnerable to interference (hackers would only have to find one chink in the armor of one system instead of thousands of chinks in thousands of systems) and doesn't do anything to prevent fraud or the kind of speculation of fraud we are currently dealing with.

 

Why?  What's the point?

16 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Well it wont be under your definiition of the kind of block chain it could be. Everyone will have access to the login page. It can be online or intranet at voting booths or a combibation (to be decided). 

And 1 minute before or after doesnt matter.  We can all check votes at any stage. 

No issues yet. 

 

As a side note.  A year ago I thought most of the public would have accepted thaksins side and Prayuts side having public electoral officials together  counting votes keeping an eye on any oversights .

Now.  Not so much.  Trust people.  No way Hosè

 

 

 

So you're making up how a Blockchain works now?

 

If it gets hacked the whole election would need to be done again. Currently if there is suspicion of tampering it can be recounted or investigated in that state.

 

There is a reason your proposal is not in place.

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

So you're making up how a Blockchain works now?

 

If it gets hacked the whole election would need to be done again. Currently if there is suspicion of tampering it can be recounted or investigated in that state.

 

There is a reason your proposal is not in place.

No.  Not the whole election.  Just votes reentered from paper hardcopy ballots. Can be exactly the same. State by state. 

Keep the queations coming.  I have all the answers. 

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Each person can see a register saying a bunch of ID numbers voted?  So what?  How does that prevent fraud?

 

Some people claim that certain ID number represent their vote.  Maybe they proudly announce who they voted for, maybe they claim the vote for their ID number wasn't who they voted for.  Either they have to show proof that the ID number really is theirs (what kind of proof do you suggest they be given?) or the government has to maintain a database of ID numbers and associated voters.  Government databases can and have been hacked.

 

Some people keep their vote secret and others don't.  Perhaps the Democrats prefer secret voting and the Republicans favor announcing their votes to the world.  Before the election everyone following these matters state the obvious; more public votes will be for Republicans and more anonymous votes will be for Democrats.  After the votes are counted the Republicans point to the large proportion of anonymous votes for Democrats and claim that proves fraud, just as it happened with mail-in vs in-person voting in the 2020 election.  How has anything improved?

 

I could keep pecking at the holes in the overall logic of your "open vote" system, but instead let's look at feasibility.  Currently the states decide how their citizens will vote.  That's required by the US Constitution.  So you either change the constitution or implement your system in each state.  However most states (all?) let local government decide on the nuts and bolt of voting--precinct boundaries, where to vote, and, most important of all, what kind of equipment to use.  Assuming the number of local governments making these decisions equals the number of counties in the US, that means over 3000 voting districts that have to be corrupted in some manner to hi-jack a national election. 

 

This widely dispersed decentralized system is the main safeguard against hacking of the entire national system; it would have to be thousands of hacks tailored to thousands of different voting systems.  You want to abandon that in favor of a centralized system which I assume would have a centralized database presenting a single high-value target for hacking.  You want to do this to implement a new, unproven system (new systems always create new problems) that doesn't present any improvements, safeguards against vote interference, or safeguards against false charges of vote interference.

 

Your system would be far more centralized and so far more vulnerable to interference (hackers would only have to find one chink in the armor of one system instead of thousands of chinks in thousands of systems) and doesn't do anything to prevent fraud or the kind of speculation of fraud we are currently dealing with.

 

Why?  What's the point?

Sorry too long.  But in short answered a few of your concerns in previous posts. 

11 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Sorry too long.  But in short answered a few of your concerns in previous posts. 

No you haven't.  You haven't addressed the Constitutionality issues, the risks of a centralized electoral system, the risks of implementation, or the fact that it doesn't do anything to alleviate fraud concerns.

 

Let's assume your system had been in effect in the 2020 election.  Let's say it showed Biden getting 51% and Trump getting 47%, with 2% going to others, as happened in the election.  Let's assume we have you wonderful database of numbers representing voters, but the id of most of those voters remain anonymous.

 

How would this system have made the election results any more trustworthy?  How would it keep Trump and company from claiming millions of the numbers represented dead voters or illegal aliens or non-existent people?  How would it keep people from claiming that the deep state or Italian spies or dead Venezuelan leaders hadn't changed anonymous votes?  How would it change anything?

18 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

No.  Not the whole election.  Just votes reentered from paper hardcopy ballots. Can be exactly the same. State by state. 

Keep the queations coming.  I have all the answers. 

No the whole election. You are very naive to think any hackers would only target one state when they have access to the whole blockchain

Sorry guys.  Im on a plane outa thailand tomorrow morning. Ill put this to bed now.  I can only stress and reiterate one last time.  I don't trust the current system. And the only proof i have is because humans are involved with no ability to check for yourself..   Nice chatting about the possibility of a change of system. Think you guys win out.  I dont find it enough of an important issue for governments to change anything. 

3 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Sorry guys.  Im on a plane outa thailand tomorrow morning. Ill put this to bed now.  I can only stress and reiterate one last time.  I don't trust the current system. And the only proof i have is because humans are involved with no ability to check for yourself..   Nice chatting about the possibility of a change of system. Think you guys win out.  I dont find it enough of an important issue for governments to change anything. 

One down, 74 million to go.

https://hereistheevidence.com/

 

Control the information, control the people. 

 

Empires never died, they only morph into corporations. The most oil is in the Middle East hence why the USA has been camping there for years. Afghanistan has 80% of the world's Opium hence why USA camped there. The USA sent 160 million to Ukraine, why cause the biggest gas is located in Ukraine which they discovered 15 years hence why the Ukraine PM ran to Russia for help in 2014. Corporations run the USA, not politicians (see video below). You can easily look all this information up online or by Wiki.

 

If you can handle the truth, watch Fox News, Twitter and Tucker Carlson. Tucker received 10 times more people than any other news outlet when he was working with Fox News. Want to know what is really going on with Ukraine, watch Tucker's interview with Putin which mainstream media has banned and now trying to put sanctions on Tucker for being a reporter like Julian Assange.

 

I would think you guys understand how the world works. Elon Musk exposed it last year. When you are in a power position, a group of people will come see you offering you money and to join the Leftist WOKE club. If you join you will be protected caused the control everything hence why Hillary was never prosecuted and Hunter Biden never went to jail even tho there is so much evidence. You are protected! Most people will join the club cause they don't want their lives destroyed but a small amount will resist and do what is best for their country!

 

Refused and they will destroy you through the media and financial first. Second they will put you in jail. Third they will have you killed. JFK was the only president that went after the banking cartel. 

 

Elon said they offered him 50 million but they refused after what they did to his eldest son. You can hear in his voice, he isn't scared to die hence why he purchased Twitter to expose them. 

 

They control everything hence why their is no free speech on Facebook and the old Twitter. They control 80% of mainstream media. It's not a conspiracy, you can look it up on wiki, who owns what! 

 

Western governments are controlled by corporations where politicians say what they are being told. If they don't, they will be destroyed by the media just like Trump, Tommy Robinson, Julian Assange, Pauline Hanson, etc... All this people are only guilty of exposing the truth hence why they were all put in jail.

 

 

43 minutes ago, organicman said:

https://hereistheevidence.com/

 

Control the information, control the people. 

 

Empires never died, they only morph into corporations. The most oil is in the Middle East hence why the USA has been camping there for years. Afghanistan has 80% of the world's Opium hence why USA camped there. The USA sent 160 million to Ukraine, why cause the biggest gas is located in Ukraine which they discovered 15 years hence why the Ukraine PM ran to Russia for help in 2014. Corporations run the USA, not politicians (see video below). You can easily look all this information up online or by Wiki.

 

If you can handle the truth, watch Fox News, Twitter and Tucker Carlson. Tucker received 10 times more people than any other news outlet when he was working with Fox News. Want to know what is really going on with Ukraine, watch Tucker's interview with Putin which mainstream media has banned and now trying to put sanctions on Tucker for being a reporter like Julian Assange.

 

I would think you guys understand how the world works. Elon Musk exposed it last year. When you are in a power position, a group of people will come see you offering you money and to join the Leftist WOKE club. If you join you will be protected caused the control everything hence why Hillary was never prosecuted and Hunter Biden never went to jail even tho there is so much evidence. You are protected! Most people will join the club cause they don't want their lives destroyed but a small amount will resist and do what is best for their country!

 

Refused and they will destroy you through the media and financial first. Second they will put you in jail. Third they will have you killed. JFK was the only president that went after the banking cartel. 

 

Elon said they offered him 50 million but they refused after what they did to his eldest son. You can hear in his voice, he isn't scared to die hence why he purchased Twitter to expose them. 

 

They control everything hence why their is no free speech on Facebook and the old Twitter. They control 80% of mainstream media. It's not a conspiracy, you can look it up on wiki, who owns what! 

 

Western governments are controlled by corporations where politicians say what they are being told. If they don't, they will be destroyed by the media just like Trump, Tommy Robinson, Julian Assange, Pauline Hanson, etc... All this people are only guilty of exposing the truth hence why they were all put in jail.

 

 

Thank you for this thorough analysis of the current geo-political situation.