TikTok Fraud

[doctormann]

Just noticed a charge to my TTB account of 0.99 USD, in favor of Google TikTok.  This appears to have been transacted via my TTB debit card without any authorization from me.

I do have a Google account but have never had any dealings whatsoever with TikTok.  I don't have a subscription to TikTok and nothing shows up on my Google account subscription listing so I am assuming that this is a fraudulent charge.

I have tried to contact TTB with no success - their English language contact number does not provide an English speaker.

So, I have temporarily blocked my card and I guess that I'll need to go into the branch - possibly get a new card.

Anyone else had a similar problem?

[Tropicalevo]

19 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Anyone else had a similar problem?

I haven't because I refuse to use apps.

However, at least three of my friends have complained of the same problem.

Apparently, the only way to stop it is to change your debit card.

[msbkk]

First of all there is no Google Tiktok. These companies are unrelated. It seems to be a fraud transaction most probably unrelated to either of those companies. I had similar charges on my account, the bank has reverted those transactions without my complaint. It seems that such fraudulent activity is not uncommon. The name Google or Tiktok is just used by these fraudsters to give the impression of an official transaction.

[doctormann]

3 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

I haven't because I refuse to use apps.

However, at least three of my friends have complained of the same problem.

Apparently, the only way to stop it is to change your debit card.

Card is now blocked - trip to the branch is in order but probably not until Monday.  I would have thought that TTB would have a hot line to report fraud but I can't find anything other than their general contact number (1498) and that doesn't work.

[doctormann]

7 minutes ago, msbkk said:

First of all there is no Google Tiktok. These companies are unrelated. It seems to be a fraud transaction most probably unrelated to either of those companies. I had similar charges on my account, the bank has reverted those transactions without my complaint. It seems that such fraudulent activity is not uncommon. The name Google or Tiktok is just used by these fraudsters to give the impression of an official transaction.

Yes, I was a bit puzzled.  I guess that it's possible to have a Google subscription to TikTok but I certainly don't have one.  Definitely a fraud but how they got my info is a mystery.  Card has not been skimmed - otherwise the transaction would show as a withdrawal - so it's probably down to an online purchase.  Maybe Lazada.

 

[msbkk]

To advise TTB customers. Those who suspect that they have been deceived or have been damaged by fraudsters can contact the Bank to report the incident 24 hours a day at TTB Contact Center at 1428 press 03.

from TTB Facebook page, you might try this one

[msbkk]

1 minute ago, doctormann said:

Yes, I was a bit puzzled.  I guess that it's possible to have a Google subscription to TikTok but I certainly don't have one.  Definitely a fraud but how they got my info is a mystery.  Card has not been skimmed - otherwise the transaction would show as a withdrawal - so it's probably down to an online purchase.  Maybe Lazada.

 

Tiktok is free, there is no subscription to my knowledge. I play it every day without paying anything ????

[Kenny202]

What's more concerning is how whomever it was got enough of your details to do the purchase or withdrawal. Was only saying to the mrs this morning back in the day any personal details you had were either in your wallet or safely at home. These days have google, FB and co sucking your every detail and thought and its all out there floating around in some imaginary world. And while these large cyber companies say they are to be trusted, how can they guarantee the integrity of their 1000's of employees. I fear it will get much worse before it will get better. Its strange they took such a paltry amount unless it was a first run tester? Doesn't really make sense

[msbkk]

18 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

What's more concerning is how whomever it was got enough of your details to do the purchase or withdrawal. Was only saying to the mrs this morning back in the day any personal details you had were either in your wallet or safely at home. These days have google, FB and co sucking your every detail and thought and its all out there floating around in some imaginary world. And while these large cyber companies say they are to be trusted, how can they guarantee the integrity of their 1000's of employees. I fear it will get much worse before it will get better. Its strange they took such a paltry amount unless it was a first run tester? Doesn't really make sense

It is not really always the case that online activity of the card owner  is the reason for fraud. I had fraud on 2 different debit cards which I have never used anywhere except an ATM machine. And in 1 case the card had not been used for at least 1 year. And yes, you mentioned a paltry amount as a first test runner. I had exactly that. One small amount was deducted without me even noticing and just 3 days later the same company charged my card 6 times within a few hours around 10 USD each transaction. The bank refunded me the money after a few days. Not sure if some fraudsters just try all kind of card number combinations until a correct match is found. 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

I haven't because I refuse to use apps.

However, at least three of my friends have complained of the same problem.

Apparently, the only way to stop it is to change your debit card.

Or change banks that have English speaking helpline.

[doctormann]

9 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

What's more concerning is how whomever it was got enough of your details to do the purchase or withdrawal. Was only saying to the mrs this morning back in the day any personal details you had were either in your wallet or safely at home. These days have google, FB and co sucking your every detail and thought and its all out there floating around in some imaginary world. And while these large cyber companies say they are to be trusted, how can they guarantee the integrity of their 1000's of employees. I fear it will get much worse before it will get better. Its strange they took such a paltry amount unless it was a first run tester? Doesn't really make sense

I suspect, in my case, that a rogue Lazada trader has sold on my debit card details to whomever.  I recently made a couple of online Lazada purchases (not using their app - did it from my PC, as I usually do).  Maybe have to revert to COD, which is far less convenient.

 

I think that we are going to see more and more of this type of fraud as we are pushed into a cashless society.  It's already getting more difficult to live without a smart phone now.

[doctormann]

10 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

What's more concerning is how whomever it was got enough of your details to do the purchase or withdrawal. Was only saying to the mrs this morning back in the day any personal details you had were either in your wallet or safely at home. These days have google, FB and co sucking your every detail and thought and its all out there floating around in some imaginary world. And while these large cyber companies say they are to be trusted, how can they guarantee the integrity of their 1000's of employees. I fear it will get much worse before it will get better. Its strange they took such a paltry amount unless it was a first run tester? Doesn't really make sense

I think the small initial charge is just a 'tester', as you say.  If this goes through then the fraudster knows that the account is operational.  They hope that this initial charge will pass unnoticed - and if it does then much larger charges will happen in due course.

[Kenny202]

27 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I suspect, in my case, that a rogue Lazada trader has sold on my debit card details to whomever.  I recently made a couple of online Lazada purchases (not using their app - did it from my PC, as I usually do).  Maybe have to revert to COD, which is far less convenient.

 

I think that we are going to see more and more of this type of fraud as we are pushed into a cashless society.  It's already getting more difficult to live without a smart phone now.

I don't think a trader on Lazada would have access to your card details unless you paid direct with them. All details of the transaction are done through Lazada themselves. I hate using my phone for any transactions like this and would much prefer to use a computer for online banking, purchases etc....but many of these entities (particularly banks) now are deleting their online trading functions saying computers are less secure than smartphones and encouraging you to install their apps. May or may not be the case but I do know once you install their app you are bombarded with spam and advertising everyday. I recently bought a new TV and same deal...told I needed to install their app to register the product and receive extended warranty. Turns out my model doesn't qualify for ext warranty but I now get 3 emails and notifications a day. I guess it is cheap and direct advertising for them. Like I said, I think all this will get worse before it gets better and seems to be coming less and less regulated. I noticed it got worse during covid, like the world was looking the other way and it was a free for all.

 

Re COD be careful....Biggest red flag for me. These are the predominant online sales scams for the last couple of years...even on Lazada. I been caught twice now. Once I received a box of rags and the other a box of rusty old bolts. Online private sellers on  FB marketplace etc it is rife but you find it on Lazada and co also. The supplier says in their advert COD. What they do is accept your payment on Lazada then do a refund. Then they send the product....or usually a pale shadow of what you wanted. You cant ask for a refund off Lazada as you already received a refund. And if you go back to do a bad review etc the seller has already cancelled that product / account and created a new one. Many people don't realize when you receive a COD item, you don't get to inspect the goods first. You simply hand over the money and receive your parcel. Driver drives off...you open your box and you realize you were done. Often you do receive "a product" similar to what you ordered but not the real / correct thing, which would be around 2-5% the value of the actual thing you ordered. This is so if there is any backlash they can simply say they made a mistake. Usually item under 2000 baht so not worth filing a report, as if anything would happen anyway. My Mrs did make a police report once on a private marketplace seller got us for 3000 baht. They told us her bank accounts would be frozen and she would be blacklisted from any govt offices etc. She did indeed have her bank accounts frozen as she sent us a message asking us to reverse the charge. Usual BS story...sick child in hospital, no hab choi...Anyway, we never received the money back and seemingly was never followed up. The bank did have a copy of the police report and did freeze her account but I suspect she talked her way out of it somehow   

[Kenny202]

My Thai friend who is pretty IT savvy says the biggest source of fraud in Thailand ATM is QR code scanning. best avoided if possible unless a large company...say when checking out at Big C, Makro etc. Never scan a QR code with a private seller or such....these are the big cases where peoples accounts are instantly drained. Thailand initiating some big case against FB atm moment saying there were 10 billion baht of fraud cases per year in Thailand due to lack of checks and balances

[bignok]

11 hours ago, doctormann said:

Just noticed a charge to my TTB account of 0.99 USD, in favor of Google TikTok.  This appears to have been transacted via my TTB debit card without any authorization from me.

I do have a Google account but have never had any dealings whatsoever with TikTok.  I don't have a subscription to TikTok and nothing shows up on my Google account subscription listing so I am assuming that this is a fraudulent charge.

I have tried to contact TTB with no success - their English language contact number does not provide an English speaker.

So, I have temporarily blocked my card and I guess that I'll need to go into the branch - possibly get a new card.

Anyone else had a similar problem?

Have you used Air Asia? They were hacked. I had 3 cards hacked

[Jelli]

10 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

What's more concerning is how whomever it was got enough of your details to do the purchase or withdrawal. Was only saying to the mrs this morning back in the day any personal details you had were either in your wallet or safely at home.

The only cc I have is tied to wife's cc. She buys everything online on one, two cards. For me - it's total emergency only or airline tickets. I wisened wife to think before handing a card over in pos service.

 

I don't keep apps on my phone. I'm all cash and can't think of anything simpler. People fumbling with their cards at the checkout, the amount of time that it takes for the cashier to input the card waiting for it to be processed and often rejected. Ughhh

 

Many were not here years, decades ago when using cards for retail was tantamount to writing your card's details on a toilet wall. It was a given your card would be compromised.

 

But the real thing for me is privacy and the fact that if your card gets scammed big good luck sorting it out. In fact, we all are very well aware of money in bank accounts that has been lifted and disappeared and even ties are left high and dry fighting a bureaucracy of the banks when it's fairly obvious it was internal and employees and on that game.

 

It's still wild west and Nations legal system is stacked squarely against the consumer and especially foreigners. Act accordingly.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Jelli

[doctormann]

35 minutes ago, bignok said:

Have you used Air Asia? They were hacked. I had 3 cards hacked

No, not for a very long time.

[bignok]

16 minutes ago, Jelli said:

The only cc I have is tied to wife's cc. She buys everything online on one, two cards. For me - it's total emergency only or airline tickets. I wisened wife to think before handing a card over in pos service.

 

I don't keep apps on my phone. I'm all cash and can't think of anything simpler. People fumbling with their cards at the checkout, the amount of time that it takes for the cashier to input the card waiting for it to be processed and often rejected. Ughhh

 

Many were not here years, decades ago when using cards for retail was tantamount to writing your card's details on a toilet wall. It was a given your card would be compromised.

 

But the real thing for me is privacy and the fact that if your card gets scammed big good luck sorting it out. In fact, we all are very well aware of money in bank accounts that has been lifted and disappeared and even ties are left high and dry fighting a bureaucracy of the banks when it's fairly obvious it was internal and employees and on that game.

 

It's still wild west and Nations legal system is stacked squarely against the consumer and especially foreigners. Act accordingly.

Simple solution. Dont have big money on cards. Money can get stolen too as can gold.

[doctormann]

15 minutes ago, Jelli said:

The only cc I have is tied to wife's cc. She buys everything online on one, two cards. For me - it's total emergency only or airline tickets. I wisened wife to think before handing a card over in pos service.

 

I don't keep apps on my phone. I'm all cash and can't think of anything simpler. People fumbling with their cards at the checkout, the amount of time that it takes for the cashier to input the card waiting for it to be processed and often rejected. Ughhh

 

Many were not here years, decades ago when using cards for retail was tantamount to writing your card's details on a toilet wall. It was a given your card would be compromised.

 

But the real thing for me is privacy and the fact that if your card gets scammed big good luck sorting it out. In fact, we all are very well aware of money in bank accounts that has been lifted and disappeared and even ties are left high and dry fighting a bureaucracy of the banks when it's fairly obvious it was internal and employees and on that game.

 

It's still wild west and Nations legal system is stacked squarely against the consumer and especially foreigners. Act accordingly.

I don't really use a lot of phone apps - much prefer to do things from the PC.  There are only two apps that I use fairly regularly - one is the app from my UK (IoM) account that is only used for handshaking when I do a currency transfer.  Not relevant in the current case.  The other is the app that is attached to my TTB account, which is used mainly for paying utility bills.  It is also occasionally used for online purchases from Lazada - and I suspect that this may have caused the problem.  Can't think of anything else - unless some fraudster trying their luck with random numbers, which sounds a bit unlikely as they would not only need the card number but also the security code from the back of the card.

[msbkk]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't think a trader on Lazada would have access to your card details unless you paid direct with them. All details of the transaction are done through Lazada themselves. I hate using my phone for any transactions like this and would much prefer to use a computer for online banking, purchases etc....but many of these entities (particularly banks) now are deleting their online trading functions saying computers are less secure than smartphones and encouraging you to install their apps. May or may not be the case but I do know once you install their app you are bombarded with spam and advertising everyday. I recently bought a new TV and same deal...told I needed to install their app to register the product and receive extended warranty. Turns out my model doesn't qualify for ext warranty but I now get 3 emails and notifications a day. I guess it is cheap and direct advertising for them. Like I said, I think all this will get worse before it gets better and seems to be coming less and less regulated. I noticed it got worse during covid, like the world was looking the other way and it was a free for all.

 

Re COD be careful....Biggest red flag for me. These are the predominant online sales scams for the last couple of years...even on Lazada. I been caught twice now. Once I received a box of rags and the other a box of rusty old bolts. Online private sellers on  FB marketplace etc it is rife but you find it on Lazada and co also. The supplier says in their advert COD. What they do is accept your payment on Lazada then do a refund. Then they send the product....or usually a pale shadow of what you wanted. You cant ask for a refund off Lazada as you already received a refund. And if you go back to do a bad review etc the seller has already cancelled that product / account and created a new one. Many people don't realize when you receive a COD item, you don't get to inspect the goods first. You simply hand over the money and receive your parcel. Driver drives off...you open your box and you realize you were done. Often you do receive "a product" similar to what you ordered but not the real / correct thing, which would be around 2-5% the value of the actual thing you ordered. This is so if there is any backlash they can simply say they made a mistake. Usually item under 2000 baht so not worth filing a report, as if anything would happen anyway. My Mrs did make a police report once on a private marketplace seller got us for 3000 baht. They told us her bank accounts would be frozen and she would be blacklisted from any govt offices etc. She did indeed have her bank accounts frozen as she sent us a message asking us to reverse the charge. Usual BS story...sick child in hospital, no hab choi...Anyway, we never received the money back and seemingly was never followed up. The bank did have a copy of the police report and did freeze her account but I suspect she talked her way out of it somehow   

You can easily prevent any app to send you unwanted advertising or messages to your phone. Go to settings, apps, click the app and disable notifications. Problem solved. For emails most of the apps have a settings menu to adjust email notifications.

[msbkk]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

I don't really use a lot of phone apps - much prefer to do things from the PC.  There are only two apps that I use fairly regularly - one is the app from my UK (IoM) account that is only used for handshaking when I do a currency transfer.  Not relevant in the current case.  The other is the app that is attached to my TTB account, which is used mainly for paying utility bills.  It is also occasionally used for online purchases from Lazada - and I suspect that this may have caused the problem.  Can't think of anything else - unless some fraudster trying their luck with random numbers, which sounds a bit unlikely as they would not only need the card number but also the security code from the back of the card.

No need to overthink this. There was a very small fraud or error transaction on your card which can be sorted out easily by your bank. In 20 years using several credit and debit cards in Thailand I had maybe a handful of wrong transaction on my cards. All of them were sorted out without any problem by my banks. And my mobile phone is full of apps. And I am a regular Facebook and Tiktok and Lazada and Shopee user and others as well. It is just a small wrong transaction and can be fixed, don't worry about it. 

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Many people don't realize when you receive a COD item, you don't get to inspect the goods first. You simply hand over the money and receive your parcel. Driver drives off...you open your box and you realize you were done.

Any order I've received has the sender's name, address and phone number on the box, as well as my own. But then, they haven't tried to cheat me. And I don't know why you say you don't get to inspect the goods. Why not?

[Kenny202]

Just now, Bangkok Barry said:

Any order I've received has the sender's name, address and phone number on the box, as well as my own. But then, they haven't tried to cheat me. And I don't know why you say you don't get to inspect the goods. Why not?

If it comes by Thai post, Flash etc driver wont let you open the package before you pay...or have you had a different experience?

 

[Bangkok Barry]

26 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

If it comes by Thai post, Flash etc driver wont let you open the package before you pay...or have you had a different experience?

 

Simple solution - don't pay. Then they're stuck with the goods and can sort out their self-made problem for themselves. Would you buy something in a store sight unseen?

Edited September 9, 2023 by Bangkok Barry

[The Theory]

17 hours ago, doctormann said:

Maybe Lazada.

Do you really use a debit card for Lazada  ?????!!! No wonder some people have this type of problems. ????

[The Theory]

7 hours ago, doctormann said:

I think that we are going to see more and more of this type of fraud as we are pushed into a cashless society. 

Try to pay by QR code only. Don't use you debit card number anywhere. Or us CC instead. 

[doctormann]

9 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Do you really use a debit card for Lazada  ?????!!! No wonder some people have this type of problems. ????

I don't have a credit card so it's basically debit card, COD, or online banking (bad idea).  I seem to recall that we also had PayPal as an option but that option no longer exists for foreigners in Thailand.

Not even sure that Lazada is actually the problem anyway - seems likely though.

[doctormann]

7 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Try to pay by QR code only. Don't use you debit card number anywhere. Or us CC instead. 

QR code is not always an option.  I do pay my utility bills that way - quick and painless.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

I don't have a credit card so it's basically debit card, COD, or online banking (bad idea).  I seem to recall that we also had PayPal as an option but that option no longer exists for foreigners in Thailand.

Not even sure that Lazada is actually the problem anyway - seems likely though.

Paypal are the worst of the lot for internal fraud. I spent a long worrying week trying to get $3000 back off them. Hadn't used Paylal or ebay for 2 years. Was an internal issue, woman even admitted it. What is concerning is how nearly impossible it is to contact these faceless companies during a crisis

Edited September 9, 2023 by Kenny202

[The Theory]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

I don't have a credit card so it's basically debit card, COD, or online banking (bad idea).  I seem to recall that we also had PayPal as an option but that option no longer exists for foreigners in Thailand.

Not even sure that Lazada is actually the problem anyway - seems likely though.

Try not using debit card. Get a CC if you have a bank account (such as CD) that you can use as guarantor.
Or never keep a large fund in your debit card account. Transfer from another savings to the account with the card when you need it.