The issues pointed out in the slaughterhouse link are not isolated, nor are they recent. Around 10 year ago a fellow art student made a film using slaughter house animals. Her husband is a vet and she was able to get some rare footage. She said that under normal circumstances, most places do not allow filming. She also explained about the machinery and how the stun guns sometimes only knock the animals out for a while, and they can regain conciousness whilst being skinned. The workers become somewhat imune to it, some of the sicker ones even find it entertaining. So, not much has changed in the last ten years at least.

What can we do? (If you actually want to 'do' anything that is)

Well, im gonna give you a monologue here first, read it or not, up to you. I am very personal about my food choices, and yes im veggie, used to be vegan. Havent eaten meat since i was 16 and dont eat meat, fish, or crustaceans. I dont have a holier than thou attitude about it, but as the thread has moved in this direction a little it may be worth considering some points. First, that our digestive system is not really kitted out for meat. ( a link for some basic info reg this: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm )There are a lot of health issues related to meat, and a lot of misconceptions relating to veggies. I rememeber when i first turned veggie at 16 (and in an italian family thats no easy feat) I was questioned a lot about my choice because it was so alien to them. I was also teased endlessly about it. My father told me that it was stupid and that it would make no difference in the world. That was close to 20 year ago now. But, he was wrong. There are a lot of people making the choice to not eat meat. Some for health reasons, others for ethics. Thing is, people are now a little more aware. Not eating meat is great for our bodies, not eating meat is great for the environment. So, why eat meat? Possibly because people are just so used to the idea of it? (and i am talking of mainstream here, not people who are so poor they have little option or in an environment that doesnt have arable land)

So how can we stop unhumane killing of animals? well, we can stop buying mass produced meat, instead buying meat that has been killed in a humane way. Better yet, for your health and evironment, cut down on the amount of meat you consume. Or better yet, dont eat it at all .

ITs OK, im done now, and im getting off my soap box before you start chucking rotton veggies at me!

ITs OK, im done now, and im getting off my soap box before you start chucking rotton veggies at me!

We wouldn't do that eek. It would be Tofu we'd throw

Interesting post eek, and a most interesting link. Although I'm not a veggie, I eat very little meat and only good quality, low fat and whenever possible organic. Also since expanding my veggies experience I enjoy so many more wonderful veggies! Yummy!

Lets forget about the bulls for a moment.

Has anybody been to a cock fight in Thailand & if so, how did that make you feel?

...uh, aroused...

Lets forget about the bulls for a moment.

Has anybody been to a cock fight in Thailand & if so, how did that make you feel?

...uh, aroused...

I bet the cock that lost didn't feel aroused!

I told you to run, Weho.

Back on topic.

Considering the barbaric treatment towards humans that exists in this world it's no small wonder that the same attitudes would 'bleed' over to the animal kingdom as well. In my opinion it's a general disrespect for life that is at the root of activities such as bull fights, cock fights, inhumane slaughter of animals, the extermination of certain ethnic people the world over, etc., etc., etc.

Where do you begin to change mass beliefs?

With yourself.

Weho, I can understand your disgust but . . . adding your hatred will only feed the situation and never alleviate it.

maybe they should do it different wise . Take the humans to have their balls stretched and let the bulls be the hunter .

What a fun what a fun. We humans are sick with our traditions and cultures . Its time for wake up time .

^

Ouch, a bit extreme is that, TB.

But I'll give your suggestion my due consideration while I'm frying my minute steak.

^

Ouch, a bit extreme is that, TB.

But I'll give your suggestion my due consideration while I'm frying my minute steak.

As long as it only takes a minute!

^

Ouch, a bit extreme is that, TB.

But I'll give your suggestion my due consideration while I'm frying my minute steak.

As long as it only takes a minute!

It takes longer actually but every time I cook one, either the doorbell or the phone rings and I shout "Just a minute!"

Why did the bull cross the road?

well, yiu see the bull was gay - which I'm supposed to say is okay - and there was a cock across the street.

Now the cock was waiting with flowers and chocolates chicken feed for a hen. Unfortunately, I ate the hen for breakfast, and so the rest is left to your imaginations...

Jeez... that was really uninspired wasn't it?

I guess this isn't the right time to say" i'm off for a bacon sandwich then"

Nope! I'd say the timing was perfect!

Lets forget about the bulls for a moment.

Has anybody been to a cock fight in Thailand & if so, how did that make you feel?

Well, I think most of the blokes in here have been to bars where we see tourists get into one such fight....

Cock and bull stories seem to get past censorship with no trouble.

I don't see why it can't go on this one. What if the bull has a big ......? No probs. blame it on Kayo!

Where's that darn red card smiley! I can NOT - REPEAT NOT!!!!!! Be blamed for every one of your incompetences.. DAM_N IT!!!! ELEPHANT GROWL

First, that our digestive system is not really kitted out for meat.

Sorry, yes it is.

Did you know that certain crystals worn on the wrist can lower your blood pressure and prevent some forms of psychosis.

What a wonderful place the internet is, an answer for everything, and always a few that will match your opinion.

Food chain.

Until Aardvarks live up to their name and mass produce semi-automatics, we're at the top of it.

Thus we eat and abuse anything we like.

Sometimes nature sucks.

However "greenies", it is in the nature of man to be this way.

Jet Gordon>> Did you just link a vegan propaganda site and pretended it was facts posted?

Where did you get the link...wikipedia?

Me quote that sh*te site wikipedia? Never. I added that post to show that animals slaughtered for human consumption are not treated humanely either.

How do you kill an animal humanely, please? Daisy, here is your last supper and then when she's not looking bash her over the head?

I have tried to be a veggie, but got so lethargic in Thailand. Once a week I had to have real protein. Same here in Canada. I love all the veg, but even if I eat beans, my body craves protein from meat. Roll over from my cave lady days I guess.

If we are not omnivores, why do we have fangs?

How do you kill an animal humanely, please? Daisy, here is your last supper and then when she's not looking bash her over the head?

Err.... around here, in reality, yes.

A baseball bat is quite effective for this part of the process, a prayer for the animal is whispered first, and then whacked.

Cessation of breathing is checked before slicing and dicing takes place.

How do you kill an animal humanely, please? Daisy, here is your last supper and then when she's not looking bash her over the head?

Err.... around here, in reality, yes.

A baseball bat is quite effective for this part of the process, a prayer for the animal is whispered first, and then whacked.

Cessation of breathing is checked before slicing and dicing takes place.

You cannot be serious! If that technique was applied to chickens it would make the poor little things pop.

Dad takes son on bull run

Wednesday July 18, 2007

A Spanish judge has taken away visiting rights from a man who took his 10-year-old son to a running of the bulls during the annual Pamplona festival last week.

The boy's mother filed a police complaint after seeing a photograph published in a newspaper of her smiling ex-husband leading their son by the arm just a few steps ahead of the bulls, private radio Cadena Ser reported.

A judge in the town of Fuenlabrada, south of Madrid, then ruled that police locate the man and return the boy to his mother in order to prevent him from continuing to put the child's life in danger.

Pamplona city officials meanwhile slapped the man with a fine of 150 euros ($220). Participants in the bull run must be at least 18 years old.

Woh, is that for real?

What a nutter!!! Poor kiddy.

You beat me to it soundman as I was just about to add that myself. It looks like he is using the young fella as a buffer between him and the bulls!

So, NIce of dad eh.

It also boggles my brain when i see parents push a pram/buggy off the curb into busy traffic. The buggy seems a hair breath away from disaster, but they dont seem to notice! Hmm..but ok, thats off topic. sorry =/

So, NIce of dad eh.

It also boggles my brain when i see parents push a pram/buggy off the curb into busy traffic. The buggy seems a hair breath away from disaster, but they dont seem to notice! Hmm..but ok, thats off topic. sorry =/

I see idiots pulling their kids around in city traffic with these all the time.

First, that our digestive system is not really kitted out for meat. ( a link for some basic info reg this: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm )There are a lot of health issues related to meat, and a lot of misconceptions relating to veggies.

Do us all a favour and don't post illinformed crap like that. It doesn't help your case.

Quick example:

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding

Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

A lie. We clearly have both angled and sharp front teeth aswell as two upper and two lower fangs. Have the author ever seen a horse or a cow in the mouth? (Why is most veggies urban living people that have never taken care of the animals they have ever eaten?)

The fact of the matter is that humans have all three set of teeth, both the front sharp teeth for eating fruits, fangs for tearing and flat for grinding. Which is in line with the fact that humans can eat all kinds of food.

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly

Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

A lie. The average length of the intestine in the human body is often quoted at ~7.5 meters. That is ~4 times the body length. >> http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/AnneMarieThomasino.shtml

Oh'whatta you know...it's also closer to the quoted average length of the intestinals of a meat-eater...

To compare: According to the page, a humans intenstine would have to be something around 18 meter to follow the "10-12 times length" - that's not even close to the truth.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat

Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

A lie - or extreme oversimplification.

"In some animals (such as cats and dogs), the pH of the lumen is lower, usually between 1 and 2. In contrast, the human stomach pH is usually between 2 and 3." - Wikipedia

And this is _not_ all meat-eaters. One important thing to note is that cats and dogs eat much more of an animal than a human normally does - not only the meat! Humans are - again - all eaters, not carnivores.

It's therefor not meat-eaters, as in 'eats some meat in their daily intake', the fact was refering too. And therefor the fact isn't a proof of mans inability or inherent biological disposition to not eat meat.

Do I really have to go on?

Scotch & coke please!

Weho, I can understand your disgust but . . . adding your hatred will only feed the situation and never alleviate it.

I don't have any hatred... all I want is a FAIR fight... bull versus man. If man is going to use capes and swords and horses, why not just go into the ring with a bunch of machine guns, and mow the bulls down? it would be so much faster.

Dad takes son on bull run

Wednesday July 18, 2007

A Spanish judge has taken away visiting rights from a man who took his 10-year-old son to a running of the bulls during the annual Pamplona festival last week.

The boy's mother filed a police complaint after seeing a photograph published in a newspaper of her smiling ex-husband leading their son by the arm just a few steps ahead of the bulls, private radio Cadena Ser reported.

A judge in the town of Fuenlabrada, south of Madrid, then ruled that police locate the man and return the boy to his mother in order to prevent him from continuing to put the child's life in danger.

Pamplona city officials meanwhile slapped the man with a fine of 150 euros ($220). Participants in the bull run must be at least 18 years old.

I'm just surprised that a man, really a "catch" of that calibur, would be divorced... that ex-wife must really be dumb to let a guy like that get away from her.

But he is a responsible bull-runner, as you can see in the picture he is clearly trying to pull the kid onto the slightly safer sidewalk.

He should get the "Father of the Year" award.

And let's not forget that it IS an art, it IS a tradtion... it IS cultural. Too bad some of us just aren't sophisticated enough to be able to "get it".

What a world.

woah some people need to take a chill pill.

Bloody hel_l.

One thing i dont understand is how a person can get easily rilled up about certain topics. Its all about personal choice, freedom of opinion, and respect for another persons viewpoint. Its OK to give a little personal opinion on a subject without retorting with fury. I often enjoy debating a topic, but in educated company where the opinions can be reviewed and not where the conversation results in flying insults. (edit: this comment is not applied to bullfighting etc. I personally dont like situations that take advantage of a person or animal that has no say or choice in the matter.)

I feel the need to just correct one comment from TAWP. That is that I have no 'case' to offer here, i was merely giving an opinion, based on information I believe to be correct. Its obviously a subject I am a bit interested in, and in general i find that although there are debates ongoing there are some key pieces of information that outweigh time and time again. My opinion was either welcomed, unwelcomed, interesting or antagonistic, depending on a persons perspective.

I dont understand hostility with regards to how we wish to eat. Why it incites such a strong reaction in some, i have no idea. We all believe what we want to believe, and thats ok. I have an opinion that not eating meat will be more the norm than not in the distant future, for various reasons, not just based on our bodies. Thats not ment to insite fury or anger, its just my thoughts.

Heck, there are a lot more things to get worked up about.

Peace

I feel the need to just correct one comment from TAWP. That is that I have no 'case' to offer here, i was merely giving an opinion, based on information I believe to be correct. Its obviously a subject I am a bit interested in, and in general i find that although there are debates ongoing there are some key pieces of information that outweigh time and time again. My opinion was either welcomed, unwelcomed, interesting or antagonistic, depending on a persons perspective.

If you are interested in the subject I suggest you get your facts straight. I.e. you actually read up on the subject.

So uptight TAWP. Loosen the coil a bit before your mechanism goes

btw, for all the bitter-ish comments your tossing my way, my comment is REALLY ment as humorous and not a dig at you. Dont wanna instigate further unintentional irritation in you. I prefer a peaceful life.

woah some people need to take a chill pill.

One thing i dont understand is how a person can get easily rilled up about certain topics. Its all about personal choice, freedom of opinion, and respect Peace

Yes, choice and respect. Too bad no one asked the bull if he liked the idea of getting swords shoved into his back. Is that the kind of choice and respect you're referring to?

And to the other poster, thanks for the great picture... that guy needs some dental work... like implants right away.