Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

It cannot be "in addition", it's "either...or".

 

PWC:

"In order to support low income earners and the aged, the first THB 150,000 of net income is tax exempt. For a resident who is 65 years of age or older, an exemption is granted on income up to an amount not exceeding THB 190,000."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

 

moneymgmnt.com:

"The first 150,000 THB of your net income is not taxed (this number is increased to 190,000 THB for residents aged 65 and older)."

https://www.moneymgmnt.com/tax/personal-income-tax-rates-thailand/

 

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (ภ.ง.ด.91) page 4:

"A taxpayer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht of income exemption from his/her total income"

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

Isn't it amazing,  how PwC and Sherrings don't say "instead of" or "in addition to"? Only moneymgmnt gives a clear and simple answer,  unfortunately the wrong one.

 

What does the RD say?

You quote ภ.ง.ด.91 which is for taxpayers who have only income from employment (the title of the pdf says so), so it's not useful for us.

 

Go to 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

Download:

 

No 1 - the form, also called ภ.ง.ด.90

Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with income not only from employment (Tax Year 2022)

 

No 2 - the guide

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2022 (ภ.ง.ด.90)

 

No 6 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

 

This is what we need. 

 

On p7 of the guide they talk about those 190000 exemption for over 65 y.o.

The 4th bullet point says:

If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” (i.e. No 6) and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form).

 

The headline on top of this same p7 says

"Page 2-4 of ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form) – Assessable Income"

and all the following pages of the guide, until p26, explain how to calculate the assessable income.

 

Then on p26 the guide explains

"Computation of Net-Income Tax
In computing tax liability by using the Net-Income Tax method, a taxpayer has to take into account all assessable income arising in a tax year. The next step is to deduct the deductible expenses from assessable incomes. Allowances are then to be deducted in accordance with the taxpayer’s circumstances. The last step is to subtract any qualified charitable contribution within the limit specified by law. Then, the progressive tax rates will be applied to any income left from all deductions."

(Later it explains another method,  "Computation of Gross-Income Tax" - that's for people who have so much money that they may not care about 190000. The LTR crowd, maybe.)

The "progressive tax rates" are the often-quoted table

 

3.1 Progressive Tax Rates

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows

Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income (baht)	Tax Rate (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

as seen at

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

 

In effect,  the 190000 are "in addition to" the 150000.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Lorry

[Guavaman]

19 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Isn't it amazing,  how PwC and Sherrings don't say "instead of" or "in addition to"? Only moneymgmnt gives a clear and simple answer,  unfortunately the wrong one.

 

What does the RD say?

You quote ภ.ง.ด.91 which is for taxpayers who have only income from employment (the title of the pdf says so), so it's not useful for us.

 

Go to 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

Download:

 

No 1 - the form, also called ภ.ง.ด.90

Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with income not only from employment (Tax Year 2022)

 

No 2 - the guide

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2022 (ภ.ง.ด.90)

 

No 6 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

 

This is what we need. 

 

On p7 of the guide they talk about those 190000 exemption for over 65 y.o.

The 4th bullet point says:

If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” (i.e. No 6) and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form).

 

The headline on top of this same p7 says

"Page 2-4 of ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form) – Assessable Income"

and all the following pages of the guide, until p26, explain how to calculate the assessable income.

 

Then on p26 the guide explains

"Computation of Net-Income Tax
In computing tax liability by using the Net-Income Tax method, a taxpayer has to take into account all assessable income arising in a tax year. The next step is to deduct the deductible expenses from assessable incomes. Allowances are then to be deducted in accordance with the taxpayer’s circumstances. The last step is to subtract any qualified charitable contribution within the limit specified by law. Then, the progressive tax rates will be applied to any income left from all deductions."

(Later it explains another method,  "Computation of Gross-Income Tax" - that's for people who have so much money that they may not care about 190000. The LTR crowd, maybe.)

The "progressive tax rates" are the often-quoted table

 

3.1 Progressive Tax Rates

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows

Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income (baht)	Tax Rate (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

as seen at

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

 

In effect,  the 190000 are "in addition to" the 150000.

 

Thank you Lorry -- this is the best and most informative post on this whole thread. It gives the sources for the only site that matters, because it is the official site of the Revenue Department -- for people who are serious about trying to understand the correct information on how to go about filing a tax return according to the official guide. All the forms you need are there; of course this needs to be updated for 2023 by the RD.  Bravo!

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

I think you are right,  but:

Where do you get the word "instead" from? 

I have read both versions,  "instead of 150000" and "in addition to 150000", both in reliable sources. 

I have no idea which one is true.

 

And now I'm uncertain having read posters @Yumthaipost! On balance, I don't think it's in "instead of". The first 150k is neither an exemption nor a deduction, it's a zero rated band of tax on the tax tables.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Mike Lister

[redwood1]

Maybe I missed it but what did they say were the new benifits and rights a farang would get for paying taxes on income not earned in Thailand?

 

Example....In America when you pay taxes you are also paying into social security that pays you money when you turn 62 years old....

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by redwood1

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Maybe I missed it but what did they say were the new benifits and rights a farang would get for paying taxes on income not earned in Thailand?

 

Example....In America when you pay taxes you are also paying into socal security that pays you money when you turn 62 years old....

 

 

New benefits? I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you!

 

Social Security eligibility here  requires regular separate payment into the SSc fund., it's not income tax linked.

[hondoelsinore]

They're here.... I was amazed that this thread actually went as far as it has without so many trolls and rottenness, but starting to see more and more on every page. I know what I will do now, and I offer good luck to the sad, tired, and nervous keyboard warriors. Let the games officially began!

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

Isn't it amazing,  how PwC and Sherrings don't say "instead of" or "in addition to"? Only moneymgmnt gives a clear and simple answer,  unfortunately the wrong one.

 

What does the RD say?

You quote ภ.ง.ด.91 which is for taxpayers who have only income from employment (the title of the pdf says so), so it's not useful for us.

 

Go to 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

Download:

 

No 1 - the form, also called ภ.ง.ด.90

Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with income not only from employment (Tax Year 2022)

 

No 2 - the guide

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2022 (ภ.ง.ด.90)

 

No 6 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

 

This is what we need. 

 

On p7 of the guide they talk about those 190000 exemption for over 65 y.o.

The 4th bullet point says:

If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” (i.e. No 6) and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form).

 

The headline on top of this same p7 says

"Page 2-4 of ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form) – Assessable Income"

and all the following pages of the guide, until p26, explain how to calculate the assessable income.

 

Then on p26 the guide explains

"Computation of Net-Income Tax
In computing tax liability by using the Net-Income Tax method, a taxpayer has to take into account all assessable income arising in a tax year. The next step is to deduct the deductible expenses from assessable incomes. Allowances are then to be deducted in accordance with the taxpayer’s circumstances. The last step is to subtract any qualified charitable contribution within the limit specified by law. Then, the progressive tax rates will be applied to any income left from all deductions."

(Later it explains another method,  "Computation of Gross-Income Tax" - that's for people who have so much money that they may not care about 190000. The LTR crowd, maybe.)

The "progressive tax rates" are the often-quoted table

 

3.1 Progressive Tax Rates

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows

Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income (baht)	Tax Rate (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

as seen at

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

 

In effect,  the 190000 are "in addition to" the 150000.

 

Well done that man.....many thanks

[jacko45k]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:47 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I bought her a 'real' helmet and she now wears it every time. 

It is a little sad that sometimes sense has to be knocked into them!

[gamb00ler]

6 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Example....In America when you pay taxes you are also paying into social security that pays you money when you turn 62 years old....

This is not accurate.  The social security (SSA) withholding is from only "earned income" not from interest, capital gains, etc.  Those funds are maintained in a completely separate pool of funds, apart from general federal government revenue.  That SSA fund is then invested in a special type of US treasury bill.  The SSA benefits are then paid out of that fund, not the general federal government budget.  However, the US federal government is on the hook when that SSA fund is not sufficient to meet outgoing payments.

 

So in reality the US system is quite similar to what @Mike Lister says below.

 

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Social Security eligibility here  requires regular separate payment into the SSc fund., it's not income tax linked.

[redwood1]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

New benefits? I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you!

 

Social Security eligibility here  requires regular separate payment into the SSc fund., it's not income tax linked.

Ok fair enough

 

But a farang who has a work visa and is working in Thailand and paying taxes on his income at least has the option to pay into the Thai health and SSc fund which comes as a benifit of paying taxes on their income in Thailand..

 

 

So what benifits would a farang on a retirement visa get if he also paid taxes on his income?

[Mike Lister]

Just now, redwood1 said:

Ok fair enough

 

But a farang who has a work visa and is working in Thailand and paying taxes on his income at least has the option to pay into the Thai health and SSc fund which comes as a benifit of paying taxes on their income in Thailand..

 

 

So what benifits would a farang on a retirement visa get if he also paid taxes on his income?

It's an interesting thought that a foreign retiree, living here on say a Non Imm O extension, paying Thai tax on overseas income, is entitled to Thai benefits but I don't know what they might be. The fact the retiree hasn't made payments into the SSc fund eliminates the possibility, in my mind, that they would be eligible for any SSc benefits.  The Thai SSc system is already coming under stress and with an increasingly ageing population, the last thing the country needs is several hundred thousand expat pensioners entering the system.

 

You then have to ask whether there is any reason why the government should provide quid pro quo benefits when all it is doing is following accepted international conventions of taxing a person where they live. If you turn the question on its head, ask yourself for example, if foreign pensioners living in Thailand should be eligible to buy diesel fuel that has been subsidised by government when the (substantial)  cost of that subsidy, the Fuel Subsidy Fund, comes out of taxes. Perhaps it's things like that which are the indirect benefit......dunno.

 

 

[retiree]

Not to make this interminable topic even interminabler (and I have no need to exercise this option myself), but it occurs to me that being non-tax-resident in Thailand in any one tax year provides a double pass:

 

  - any income brought into Thailand in that year is not taxed because you were not a tax resident,

  - any overseas income earned that year is not assessable (and thus not taxable) because you were not a tax resident, no matter what year it is brought in.   

 

Income from employment or business carried on in Thailand, no matter what your status or where it is paid, is always assessable, of course, per Section 41 (1) of the Revenue Code  https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html . 

 

Please remember that I am not now, and have never wanted to be, an accountant or lawyer.  

[redwood1]

49 minutes ago, retiree said:

Not to make this interminable topic even interminabler (and I have no need to exercise this option myself), but it occurs to me that being non-tax-resident in Thailand in any one tax year provides a double pass:

 

  - any income brought into Thailand in that year is not taxed because you were not a tax resident,

  - any overseas income earned that year is not assessable (and thus not taxable) because you were not a tax resident, no matter what year it is brought in.   

 

Income from employment or business carried on in Thailand, no matter what your status or where it is paid, is always assessable, of course, per Section 41 (1) of the Revenue Code  https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html . 

 

Please remember that I am not now, and have never wanted to be, an accountant or lawyer.  

It sound like they want to slap a tax-resident label on farangs just for the privilege of being taxed......With no other benifits for farang what so ever...

 

Does a farang who is in Thailand for 179 days use a whole lot less resources  than a farang that is here for 300 -365 days? Nope not really....

 

Especially considering almost nothing is free for a farang in Thailand

179-365 days farangs pay up same same for every thing in Thailand..

Edited October 11, 2023 by redwood1

[TroubleandGrumpy]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I've never had to hence I don't know, sorry. But I do recall seeing that money reclaimed under a DTA with Thailand is in the form of a credit rather than a repayment.

It looks like it will be very complicated to me - and probably require a lawyer/accountant.  Either way, lodging a tax return in Thailand where DTAs are involved will not be - 'done online and is easy enough to do.'  

[moogradod]

5 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

It looks like it will be very complicated to me - and probably require a lawyer/accountant.  Either way, lodging a tax return in Thailand where DTAs are involved will not be - 'done online and is easy enough to do.'  

We will see how complicated it will really get. If you are right I would better engage a lawyer / accountant as well just to be sure to prevent misunderstandings with bigger impact. Actually I do not see any arise but as you know .......

 

The problem will be to find the right one. Needs to be specialized and professional, willing to confine time, speaking English very well and have lots of experience with the authorities. And this all in Chonburi. If you find one pls. drop me a PM. I will then check him out. Thanks.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It's an interesting thought that a foreign retiree, living here on say a Non Imm O extension, paying Thai tax on overseas income, is entitled to Thai benefits but I don't know what they might be. The fact the retiree hasn't made payments into the SSc fund eliminates the possibility, in my mind, that they would be eligible for any SSc benefits.  The Thai SSc system is already coming under stress and with an increasingly ageing population, the last thing the country needs is several hundred thousand expat pensioners entering the system.

You then have to ask whether there is any reason why the government should provide quid pro quo benefits when all it is doing is following accepted international conventions of taxing a person where they live. If you turn the question on its head, ask yourself for example, if foreign pensioners living in Thailand should be eligible to buy diesel fuel that has been subsidised by government when the (substantial)  cost of that subsidy, the Fuel Subsidy Fund, comes out of taxes. Perhaps it's things like that which are the indirect benefit......dunno.

Interesting viewpoint - some would even say it is a 'gone Thai feral' view.

Rather than throw that all back at you, which would be very easy - how about this viewpoint.

We are not Thai Residents or Citizens, we are technically long-stay Tourists. That is why we have to report every 90 days - the max period Tourist Visa is for 90 days. That is why we must request an annual extension of out 'Permission to Stay'. That is why we must apply for a certificate to leave and re-enter under that extended permission to stay.  Thailand does not have any "Migrant Visa' - they are all Technically Non-Immigrant Tourist Visas.  Therefore I am a tourist and whilst I am happy to pay VAT (and can claim it back if I want to when departing within the initial period), I am not technically liable to pay Income Tax. 

A few years ago I saw an interview with the then Boss of the Thai Elite Visa office.  In response to a technical question about what type of Visa it was, she replied it is technically a Tourist Visa - same as all the others - but with its own terms and conditions.

From someone that says it is easy to do a tax return in Thailand, and then in another post says that he has never done one, it seems very strange to me that you feel it is justified for us Expats to pay income taxes. 

Trust me on this - lodging a tax return in Thailand, where there are international remittances and a DTA involved, is not simple and not easy. I believe that lawyer who told me far more than I believe what you say about it. But to defend the lawyer - he (and all those others quoted in this issue) is obviously 'drumming up business' from Expats.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 minutes ago, moogradod said:

We will see how complicated it will really get. If you are right I would better engage a lawyer / accountant as well just to be sure to prevent misunderstandings with bigger impact. Actually I do not see any arise but as you know .......

 

The problem will be to find the right one. Needs to be specialized and professional, willing to confine time, speaking English very well and have lots of experience with the authorities. And this all in Chonburi. If you find one pls. drop me a PM. I will then check him out. Thanks.

I agree with all that - If I do need to do a tax return in Thailand.  Plus I would look for one that knows the DTA betwen Thailand and my home country.  There are many legal/accounting firms in Thailand that have a senior person or owner, who is someone from US, UK, Aussie, etc.

 

But before getting to that point of needing a tax lawyer/accountant - there are a few issues that are still awaiting clarification from the Thai RD.

 

If I remit a large amount of money into Thailand (over the 150K tax free threshold), but none of it is income as defined in the Thai Tax Code, am I still required to lodge a tax return. 

 

Does the Thai RD view monies brought into Thailand that is a Govt Pension as taxable income. If it does view that money as taxable income, does that mean I am required to do a tax return, and apply under the DTA for exemption from taxes.

 

Does the Thai RD view monies brought into Thailand that is from a Govt controlled Retirement Fund (Superannuation in Australia), as taxable income. If it does view that money as taxable income, does that mean I am required to do a tax return, and apply under the DTA for exemption from taxes.

 

Does the Thai RD view monies brought into Thailand that is from a Savings Account, as taxable income. If it does view that money as taxable income, does that mean I am required to do a tax return, and apply under the DTA for exemption from taxes.

 

In other words, does the Thai RD view any/all remittances brought into Thailand by Expats as taxable income, and do I therefore have to lodge a tax return.

 

I am extremely unhappy about having to 'justify' bringing my money into Thailand  every year, with the potential of being 'nailed' one year - probably in that year I was silly enough to bring in 5+ million baht to buy a property in Thailand.   

[TroubleandGrumpy]

I am sure that the Thai RD is working through all the issues and complications that this new 'interpretation' is likely to impose on all tax residents in Thailand - Thais and Foreigners.  I am also sure they are not at all looking at AN to get inputs - but on the off chance 'someone' is listening, I am giving this information below.

 

Because I am extremely unhappy about this new potential imposition in Thailand, I have been looking more closely into those countries nearby where they encourage and support Expat retirees living long-term in their country - and spending all/most of their money there.  One of the standout countries is Malaysia - there are lots of 'western' Expats in Penang.  Obviously there are others, but for this matter I am quoting only Malaysia and how they nadled this change.

 

On 1 January 2022, Malaysia introduced the same 'system' that Thailand is doing as of 1 January 2024.  They received lots of feedback, and subsequently the Govt made the following statement:

 

Due to concerns raised by various parties on the possible ramifications of removing the exemption for FSI remitted to Malaysia, the Ministry of Finance (“MoF”) had, on 30 December 2021, announced that this exemption from income tax will be given, by concession, for a period of five (5) years from 1 January 2022 to 31 December 2026 on certain categories of FSI received by the following groups of tax residents:

• Individuals – All categories of foreign sourced income are exempted.
• Companies – Foreign sourced dividend income is exempted.

What are not taxable?

The provisions will only affect gains that are “income” in nature. On this note, foreign source gains that are “capital” in nature will not be subject to tax. Foreign source capital gains should include proceeds from the disposal of foreign stocks, foreign properties, foreign assets, foreign currencies, foreign investment papers, etc, if these assets had been held as long-term investments. As to whether the gains are “income” or “capital” in nature, the onus of proof lies with the Malaysian tax resident based on the facts and circumstances giving rise to the gains. If the remittances are found to be income in nature instead of capital as claimed by the taxpayers, the same shall be subject to income tax. 

 

Lets hope that the Thailand Government realises the can of worms that they have opened, and follow the lead of its neighbour Malaysia, and make some clear exemptions, and provide time for this change to be managed by all Thai tax residents.  As many posters here have said, the Govt and Thai RD is not doing this to target Expats who bring their money, savings and pensions into Thailand to support thermselves and/or their Thai families. But unfortunately, that is how things do play out whenever a Government makes a change to catch certain people - they also catch others that they were not really after.  Malaysia left it until December of the year before the change started - hopefully Thailand will do it a little quicker.

[stat]

20 hours ago, Lorry said:

Your liberal usage of the word socialism shows you have no idea what socialism really is about. 

 

But we don't want to discuss this here.

It's ok to parachute into Thailand when 65, complain that the infrastructure - paid by Thais - is not up to European standards but refusing to pay tax here?

I know it's not you (at least not on this forum) but many people I know are like this.

I don't pay a lot of tax here - and don't want to - ,  but I don't expect a lot from the Thai government, either. 

 

Tax is supposed to pay for the 10K digital wallet. Dream on that any of this money will pe put in the infrastructure. Reminds me of german politicians that want more tax all the time for digitalisation and then demand that you send everything in written and signed paper. Being German I know exactly what socialism is about as Germay had 2! socialist societies in the last 100 years and both did not work out well. Thanks to our US brothers who liberated Germany and then protected Germany from GDR and communist russia on their tax dollars, talking of a freeride there it is.

Edited October 11, 2023 by stat

[Yumthai]

13 hours ago, Lorry said:

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

It seems you are correct, the 190K should be deducted on the assessable income in the first place.

 

I better understand now why PWC did not put up a clear explanation on this "exemption" as it's as unintelligible calculation as misleading wording.

 

I never get why bureaucrats always make (what should be) simple things complex... oh yes they need to justify their job.

 

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

It looks like it will be very complicated to me - and probably require a lawyer/accountant.  Either way, lodging a tax return in Thailand where DTAs are involved will not be - 'done online and is easy enough to do.'  

Just because I don't know what the DTA reclaim process is and just because I have never needed to do it, doesn't mean that it wont be a simple process! Returns will still be done online, that is certain. Whether or not the online system will be modified to cater to the DTA process is far too early to say at this juncture. Personally, I expect the process might simply involve a declaration rather than any long detailed process where lots and lots of data is supplied to satisfy the terms of the DTA. I further expect the RD to test some of those declarations but we're now into guessing the future.

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Interesting viewpoint - some would even say it is a 'gone Thai feral' view.

Rather than throw that all back at you, which would be very easy - how about this viewpoint.

We are not Thai Residents or Citizens, we are technically long-stay Tourists. That is why we have to report every 90 days - the max period Tourist Visa is for 90 days. That is why we must request an annual extension of out 'Permission to Stay'. That is why we must apply for a certificate to leave and re-enter under that extended permission to stay.  Thailand does not have any "Migrant Visa' - they are all Technically Non-Immigrant Tourist Visas.  Therefore I am a tourist and whilst I am happy to pay VAT (and can claim it back if I want to when departing within the initial period), I am not technically liable to pay Income Tax. 

A few years ago I saw an interview with the then Boss of the Thai Elite Visa office.  In response to a technical question about what type of Visa it was, she replied it is technically a Tourist Visa - same as all the others - but with its own terms and conditions.

From someone that says it is easy to do a tax return in Thailand, and then in another post says that he has never done one, it seems very strange to me that you feel it is justified for us Expats to pay income taxes. 

Trust me on this - lodging a tax return in Thailand, where there are international remittances and a DTA involved, is not simple and not easy. I believe that lawyer who told me far more than I believe what you say about it. But to defend the lawyer - he (and all those others quoted in this issue) is obviously 'drumming up business' from Expats.

You confuse visa and tax residency. Anyone who remains in almost any country for more than 180 days, is tax resident. Visa's are a totally separate issue. But I do agree we are not Residents, we are resident perhaps but because of the long stay visa issue, we are not Residents, not that that changes the tax position..

[redwood1]

26 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You confuse visa and tax residency. Anyone who remains in almost any country for more than 180 days, is tax resident. Visa's are a totally separate issue. But I do agree we are not Residents, we are resident perhaps but because of the long stay visa issue, we are not Residents, not that that changes the tax position..

To say some one only qualifies as a resident to pay a tax.... And to say they dont qualify for any other rights or benefits of being a resident or any of the benefits of paying income tax (like the option buy into Thai health care) is a Joke.....A very bad Joke....

 

No one can deny this......

Edited October 11, 2023 by redwood1

[Dogmatix]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:42 PM, KannikaP said:

Sorry, but let me get it right. Everybody! gets a 60k Personal Care Allowance? Even if they are not caring or being cared for. That is TAXFREE. And then the 0%, 5%,!0% etc bands come into play. Yeh?

It is not a personal care allowance. It is a basic deduction. Over 65s get another 190,000 deduction. There are other deductions for elderly parents, kids, life and health insurance RMR and SSF funds etc but hose are the basic deductions that everyone gets.

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

It is not a personal care allowance. It is a basic deduction. Over 65s get another 190,000 deduction. There are other deductions for elderly parents, kids, life and health insurance RMR and SSF funds etc but hose are the basic deductions that everyone gets.

Do you mean 190k in addition to the 150 at 0%?   

Edited October 11, 2023 by KannikaP

[Yumthai]

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Do you mean 190k in addition to the 150 at 0%? 

It's more complicated than that.

Refer to the comprehensive @Lorry post below for more detailed information:

 

[KannikaP]

34 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

It's more complicated than that.

Refer to the comprehensive @Lorry post below for more detailed information:

 

I did and that was the conclusion I came to. Am I right or wrong that the 190 is on top of the 150? @Dogmatix seems to agree with me.

Edited October 11, 2023 by KannikaP

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I did and that was the conclusion I came to. Am I right or wrong that the 190 is on top of the 150? @Dogmatix seems to agree with me.

You are correct.

 

Deduct 190k from total income, then deduct 60K personal care allowance, along with any other deductions you have.

 

Then, apply that amount against the tax tables, of which the first 150K is zero rated so tax free. Tax the remainder according to the bands, the next 150,001 to 300,000 at 5%, and so on up the scale.

[KannikaP]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

You are correct.

 

Deduct 190k from total income, then deduct 60K personal care allowance, along with any other deductions you have.

 

Then, apply that amount against the tax tables, of which the first 150K is zero rated so tax free. Tax the remainder according to the bands, the next 150,001 to 300,000 at 5%, and so on up the scale.

So for me it will be 60 + 190 +150 = 400k before any tax is due?

[Lorry]

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So for me it will be 60 + 190 +150 = 400k before any tax is due?

Yes