Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[stat]

19 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

I think some of us are in major denial here.

 

From my experience in India, they will hit you at the source of the banks. 

They will and cannot hit you at the source of the bank if your bank is not in Thailand. Not even the mighty IRS of the USA managed to deduct at source a capital gain of a share that arises anywhere in the world (Switzerland, Germany, Canada etc).

Edited December 29, 2023 by stat

[stat]

1 hour ago, stat said:

They will and cannot hit you at the source of the bank if your bank is not in Thailand. Not even the mighty IRS of the USA managed to deduct at source a capital gain of a share that arises anywhere in the world (Switzerland, Germany, Canada etc).

In the case that you meant the Thai bank will deduct a certain when you transmit money to Thailand that would be difficult to implement as in the first year you are not a tax resident of Thailand. In addition they do not know your tax bracket. Of course they could charge you 35% right away but then they could close TH right away for all expats. So all in all highly unlikely especially in 2024 as IT changes like this one take years and there has been no mentioning of a law like this. They are already taxing interest from a thai bank with a withholding tax that is what I guessed happened to you in India as well.

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, stat said:

In the case that you meant the Thai bank will deduct a certain when you transmit money to Thailand that would be difficult to implement as in the first year you are not a tax resident of Thailand. In addition they do not know your tax bracket. Of course they could charge you 35% right away but then they could close TH right away for all expats. So all in all highly unlikely especially in 2024 as IT changes like this one take years and there has been no mentioning of a law like this. They are already taxing interest from a thai bank with a withholding tax that is what I guessed happened to you in India as well.

 

In addition to this, you might be living in Thailand remitting millions of Baht every month between Jan 1 and June 20th when you leave and don't return until Jan 3 the following year - making you a non tax resident for the year in question rendering all those millions and anything else you decide to send during the rest of the year non taxable regardless of where it comes from and its tax status.

 

This is why it will never happen as residency isn't decided until the 181st day of the yeat and us foreigners can be highly mobile.

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

34 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

In addition to this, you might be living in Thailand remitting millions of Baht every month between Jan 1 and June 20th when you leave and don't return until Jan 3 the following year - making you a non tax resident for the year in question rendering all those millions and anything else you decide to send during the rest of the year non taxable regardless of where it comes from and its tax status.

 

This is why it will never happen as residency isn't decided until the 181st day of the yeat and us foreigners can be highly mobile.

 

 

 

Solely to play devils advocate  for a moment, banks with hold tax on savings at source from Day 1, the assumption being that tax is due unless it is reclaimed via a tax return. It is however a stretch of the imagination to think banks might with hold tax on all inbound transfers, for the reasons you have stated and more.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Solely to play devils advocate  for a moment, banks with hold tax on savings at source from Day 1, the assumption being that tax is due unless it is reclaimed via a tax return. It is however a stretch of the imagination to think banks might with hold tax on all inbound transfers, for the reasons you have stated and more.

 

Indeed - it's complete nonsense and will never happen, ever.

 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

 

Indeed - it's complete nonsense and will never happen, ever.

 

*Something* will happen.

 

My guess is that the new regulations will be used for egrigious cases - when tens of millions are transferred into Thailand.

 

Conversely, the RD is not going to monitor ATM transactions using foreign bank cards.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Danderman123

[Mike Lister]

31 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

*Something* will happen.

 

My guess is that the new regulations will be used for egrigious cases - when tens of millions are transferred into Thailand.

 

Conversely, the RD is not going to monitor ATM transactions using foreign bank cards.

I can easily imagine banks and visa/mastercard networks being required to provide some form of reporting, they already do this for BOT and foreign currency exchange reporting. Perhaps something like the old US 10k rule whereby cumulative transactions over 10k per X, had to be reported.

[The Cyclist]

A couple of pictures for the doomers & gloomers,  who like to whinge and moan about potentially paying some tax in Thailand because Thailand gives them nothing.

 

Relaxing after a very nice Boxing day lunch.

 

Free entrance to the park and lunch for 3 came in about 1000 baht

 

 

Last nights entertainment.

 

Free parking / Frre entrance / free concert. Food and drink bill for 4 adults and 3 children came in at 2000 baht.

 

 

Thailand offers plenty, often at no cost if you can make the effort to find it.

 

One reason that I wont complain ( too much )  if I have to pay a little bit of tax.

[Danderman123]

38 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I can easily imagine banks and visa/mastercard networks being required to provide some form of reporting, they already do this for BOT and foreign currency exchange reporting. Perhaps something like the old US 10k rule whereby cumulative transactions over 10k per X, had to be reported.

In Thailand?

 

This is a country that can't even enforce motorcycle helmet laws.

 

You are speaking about theory, not practice. Sure, Thailand is about to become the hub of tax enforcement.

 

I can see it now: some bureaucrat signs up for a European Union seminar on credit card transaction monitoring, and the headline here reads: "Thailand to crack down on International Credit Card Transfers".

Edited December 30, 2023 by Danderman123

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

In Thailand?

 

This is a country that can't even enforce motorcycle helmet laws.

 

You are speaking about theory, not practice. Sure, Thailand is about to become the hub of tax enforcement.

I think you underestimate the capabilities within the Central Bank.

[proton]

17 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

A couple of pictures for the doomers & gloomers,  who like to whinge and moan about potentially paying some tax in Thailand because Thailand gives them nothing.

 

Relaxing after a very nice Boxing day lunch.

 

Free entrance to the park and lunch for 3 came in about 1000 baht

 

 

Last nights entertainment.

 

Free parking / Frre entrance / free concert. Food and drink bill for 4 adults and 3 children came in at 2000 baht.

 

 

Thailand offers plenty, often at no cost if you can make the effort to find it.

 

One reason that I wont complain ( too much )  if I have to pay a little bit of tax.

 

Where was the concert? morlam cing band from Sakhon Nakon. We go to free concerts all the time, when you do have to pay it's 140-200 baht for top stars

[bugger bognor]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:19 PM, DonniePeverley said:

I think some of us are in major denial here.

 

From my experience in India, they will hit you at the source of the banks. 

You. Are delusional that would require new laws to be made unenforceable and would be frowned upon globally! Thailand would be a laughing stock and pray tell me any countries in th world that taxes money at source 

[The Cyclist]

13 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Where was the concert? morlam cing band from Sakhon Nakon. We go to free concerts all the time, when you do have to pay it's 140-200 baht for top stars

 

Khao Yai.

 

4 day event, ( all free ) we will go back tomorrow night.

 

Loads of free stuff, including concerts, going on every month. All it takes is a bit of looking.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

You. Are delusional that would require new laws to be made unenforceable and would be frowned upon globally! Thailand would be a laughing stock and pray tell me any countries in th world that taxes money at source 

Myanmar

 

India, depending on the source country.

 

The bigger questions is, which countries are considering taxing outbound remittances.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Mike Lister

[DonniePeverley]

7 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

You. Are delusional that would require new laws to be made unenforceable and would be frowned upon globally! Thailand would be a laughing stock and pray tell me any countries in th world that taxes money at source 

 

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Virtually every major economy does this. 

[proton]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Khao Yai.

 

4 day event, ( all free ) we will go back tomorrow night.

 

Loads of free stuff, including concerts, going on every month. All it takes is a bit of looking.

 

Never have to look, been to over 1200 concerts here, sometimes difficult to choose which event to go to.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, proton said:

 

Never have to look, been to over 1200 concerts here, sometimes difficult to choose which event to go to.

 

I wasn't meaning you 

 

I was meaning the people that seem to moan that Thailand is all about double pricing and nothing is free.

 

As we both know, there is plenty in Thailand that is free.

[jerrymahoney]

While it has been oft noted on this topic, any new Revenue regime would require new legislation and the Gazette, etc., the Revenue folks already have a trifecta of regulations at their disposal:

 

TAX EVASION LAWS:

 

https://sherrings.com/tax-evasion-in-thailand.html

[couchpotato]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Never have to look, been to over 1200 concerts here, sometimes difficult to choose which event to go to.

A slight exaggeration methinks.  Whats the real figure.

 

At one concert a month that's a 100 years.

Or at a concert every weekend that's still 25 years.

Or at a concert every day, that's still over 3 years

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by couchpotato

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A slight exaggeration methinks.  Whats the real figure.

 

At one concert a month that's a 100 years.

Or at a concert every weekend that's still 25 years.

Or at a concert every day, that's still over 3 years

 

 

Proton's no spring chicken you know.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

18 hours ago, K2938 said:

Based on our discussion I have today contacted some Indonesian firm providing immigration and tax advice.  They confirmed that if a retired person is in Indonesia more than 183 days, he or she is taxable on global income.  Without any caveats, without any exceptions.  Sorry.  So if you find some more evidence supporting what you say, then please let me know. But - unfortunately - I do not think it is true. 

Yes - that is the rules and yes a tax consultant will tell you that you must lodge a tax return (with them).

Until this current rule change, in Thailand the same thing applied, but retired Expats we excepted.

How to Retire in Indonesia - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

Indonesia are currently in the processes of making that standard approach (not taxing retired Expats) official - as per those links I sent.

But yes, right now 'technically' the rules are not that - just the precedent - so I guess you are right 'technically' and I am wrong.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

17 hours ago, UKresonant said:

 

That would be the theme I would be feeling, not even a pass to avoid multiple entry fees at various venues, national parks and maybe even some health facilities. The ticket vendors may say that I'm still just on a slightly extended visitors visa, for which I couldn't really dispute that aspect I suppose  .

Ever since I first visited Thailand in 2010 there has been many Govt people say that they will address this inequity bla bla bla - the latest one being a bloke at TAT.  Nothing ever happens because the entire Thai bureaucracy has the 'Picard Syndrome'. They all think that by saying the matter is going to be fixed (make it so) the problem has been fixed.  There are far too many Generals and Chiefs in Thailand who talk about it, but no where near enough people who actually get things done. Richard Barrow actually lists them all - he has been campaigning agianst this for years.

Home | 2PriceThailand

 

[The Cyclist]

12 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A slight exaggeration methinks.  Whats the real figure.

 

At one concert a month that's a 100 years.

Or at a concert every weekend that's still 25 years.

Or at a concert every day, that's still over 3 years

 

 

 

The big mountain music festival is a 2 day event that probably has about 50, perhaps more, different concerts, if you class separate artists / groups as individual concerts

 

 

[couchpotato]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The big mountain music festival is a 2 day event that probably has about 50, perhaps more, different concerts, if you class separate artists / groups as individual concerts

 

 

Sorry dear..a Concert is an event with one or more individual artists, bands, groups etc.

So a 2 day event with 50 acts/performances is a Concert.

 

I am sure many posters would be 'in concert' with this.

[The Cyclist]

32 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Sorry dear..a Concert is an event with one or more individual artists, bands, groups etc.

 

 

Nice semantics

 

A concert is generally classed as a performance by an individual / group.

 

A raft of concerts, by individuals / groups, brought together under one banner, is usually classed as an event or a festival.

 

38 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

So a 2 day event with 50 acts/performances is a Concert.

 

 

Concert or a Festival ?

 

Big Mountain Music Festival 2023 ครั้งที่ 13 ราคาบัตรเท่าไหร่

 

Festival not concert.

 

Sorry dear 

 

[Danderman123]

Okay, this topic has been hijacked.

[ravip]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

A couple of pictures for the doomers & gloomers,  who like to whinge and moan about potentially paying some tax in Thailand because Thailand gives them nothing.

 

Relaxing after a very nice Boxing day lunch.

 

Free entrance to the park and lunch for 3 came in about 1000 baht

 

 

Last nights entertainment.

 

Free parking / Frre entrance / free concert. Food and drink bill for 4 adults and 3 children came in at 2000 baht.

 

 

Thailand offers plenty, often at no cost if you can make the effort to find it.

 

One reason that I wont complain ( too much )  if I have to pay a little bit of tax.

Great!

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Okay, this topic has been hijacked.

 

A small commercial break until the RD make a further announcement and the doom & gloom can restart in earnest 

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

While it has been oft noted on this topic, any new Revenue regime would require new legislation and the Gazette, etc., the Revenue folks already have a trifecta of regulations at their disposal:

 

TAX EVASION LAWS:

 

https://sherrings.com/tax-evasion-in-thailand.html

 

Keyword is "intentionally".

 

People have no intention not to file tax returns to evade tax or to file false ones.

They are just not aware of any recent change because they haven't received any direct information from RD officials.

 

"Thailand is a land of compromise", it's ok not to know.

 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

Keyword is "intentionally".

 

People have no intention not to file tax returns to evade tax or to file false ones.

They are just not aware of any recent change because they haven't received any direct information from RD officials.

 

"Thailand is a land of compromise", it's ok not to know.

 

Here is reality:

 

the vast majority of Farangs living in Thailand have no idea about the new regs, would have no idea what to do about them, and probably do nothing unless something diffetent happens.