7 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Hamas did indeed choose their own path.

 

Why has Netanyahu been such a staunch supporter of Hamas for the last 15 years?

 

Minimizing Hamas again - Hamas did not simply choose 'their own path' - they made the choice for the entire population of the Gaza Strip (and actually, for Palestinians in the West Bank as well).

 

I get it that you try to push a talking point - but 'staunch supporter'? Next thing you'll claim Netanyahu armed them and help them plan the attack. The reasons for Netanyahu preferring Hamas gains vs. the PA is quite obvious, and was already discussed on this topic. The folly of that decision was acknowledged, and negative comments regarding Netanyahu and his polices were made.

 

Any other deflections you wish to offer?

4 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Israel is not special.

No people are chosen people.

We are all equal.

 

Maybe not enabling and supporting Hamas for 15+ years to thwart a peace deal shouldn’t have been a core strategy of the Netanyahu government.

 

If Israel is not special, why is it that it people hold it to higher standards?

 

Your ongoing talking point aside, what 'peace deal' would that be? It's not like the PA was ready and willing, nor able to deliver. You're pushing a false, misleading narrative - again.

25 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I can't see the Israeli Press posting it, can you?

Then there was the old Arab wandering around obviously shellshocked after the latest aerial bombardment near wherever he was sheltering, out he comes talking to some police or IDF people and low and behold someone shoots him dead, unarmed, disorientated and not hurting anyone, such brave people the Israeli's.

What's more to the point, I can't see you posting it either chef. Your credibility remains zero

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So as long as said path is OK with Israel everything can change for the better for the Palestinian's, right.

Delusional, the only thing the Israeli's want is all Arabs out of Gaza so they can settle even more Palestinian land and get rid of them pesky Arabs and lets not forget the oil and naturel gas reserves off shore. 

 

If you consider the current situation of the Gaza Strip - do you think choosing a path that did not involve the Hamas paradigm of violent 'struggle' would be worse for the Palestinians? How so? Also, note that I offered two ways to get there, one of them involving Egypt. There was no suggestion made this doesn't (also) work in Israel's interests. Sure. You'd have to put some effort into explaining how Hamas demonstrating a peaceful approach would have been less constructive for achieving overall Palestinians goals. That would have undermined much of Israel's justifications and rhetoric, and would have resulted in greater international pressure to reach a comprehensive solution. Hamas violence serves Israel's right-wing narrative and policies.

 

You can keep banging on about 'the only thing Israel wants' - you do not actually support this with anything, though.

 

The potential gas field off Gaza's shore is just one of few further afield , larger ones and already belonging to Israel. That's not it.

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What is astonishing is that you expect people to take the loaded, simplistic analogies you present as basis for discussion.

Astonishing that you think Israel can do as it likes and when they get terror back at them, you play the victim.

 

And before you start quoting about the Hamas atrocities from the 7th which I wholeheartedly disagree with as they are war crimes against Humanity including the Israeli's, before you go off on your normal garbage.

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You twist things around to make your point so that Israel always looks whiter than white, no thought at all about the Israeli actions that cause the vast majority of the problems by treating fellow human beings as sub-human.

 

No, I do not. I simply demonstrate, over and over again, that reality is more complex than the simplistic black and white narrative you and others push. You can't handle that, you can't address it, you don't want it to be true - so you make nonsense posts, troll, repeat stuff that was already discussed, go for emo comments and so on.

 

And I do not consider Israel to be even very white. Much of what Israel does is, at best, borderline - even if necessary. To put this in easier to digest terms: Most of what Israel does in the West Bank is wrong, not so with regard to the Gaza Strip.

 

An outed and proud anti-semite going on about 'sub human' is cute. Don't see you making much noise about Palestinian leaders treating their civilians as fodder.

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Not blaming Israel for Hamas is as silly as a smoker not blaming cigarettes for their lung cancer.

 

Ooohh....another daft analogy.

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2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'm calling BS on that statement, maybe that might have been the case before the right-wing crazies took over the Israeli parliament and before the oil and gas was discovered. 

 

 

   If you didn't mean that Israel are going into Gaza now because of oil and gas discoveries, what did you mean ?

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'm calling BS on that statement, maybe that might have been the case before the right-wing crazies took over the Israeli parliament and before the oil and gas was discovered. 

So now Hamas are classed as all Muslins according to you? Hamas are not supported by all Muslims some Muslins are probably nice chaps just like some Jews are nice chaps, like the Ultra Orthodocs one who oppose Bibi.

 

Ignorance, again. The main focus of them 'right-wing crazies' is the West Bank. The Gaza Strip does not have the same religious significance to them. There's a small group within that wants this (mostly former 'settlers' evacuated from there when Israel withdrew). By and large, I don't think Israelis want anything to do with the Gaza Strip. There's no real talk or enthusiasm about re-occupying it or ruling it.

 

The gas field was discovered many years ago. That's not it.

 

All the major ultra orthodox parties are part of Netanyahu's government. What you refer to is a very small, extreme splinter group. They are pretty much against Israel's existence, so not hard to see why you like them.

 

50 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I can't see the Israeli Press posting it, can you?

Then there was the old Arab wandering around obviously shellshocked after the latest aerial bombardment near wherever he was sheltering, out he comes talking to some police or IDF people and low and behold someone shoots him dead, unarmed, disorientated and not hurting anyone, such brave people the Israeli's.

 

   You posted a false story about a football playing boy getting shot by Israeli IDF snipers in Gaza and when it was shown to be a false story , you immediately posted some story about an old man getting shot as well .

   Was it the same IDF solder that shot that old man that also shot the football playing kid ? 🙂

I have a feeling that that same solder will be shooting dead a pregnant woman soon 🙂

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You twist things around to make your point so that Israel always looks whiter than white, no thought at all about the Israeli actions that cause the vast majority of the problems by treating fellow human beings as sub-human.

 

   We re talking about this war .

It was the Palestinians  treating innocent Israelis as sub human in the terror attack  which caused this current war /Problems.

It is you who is twisting things around

 

25 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Astonishing that you think Israel can do as it likes and when they get terror back at them, you play the victim.

 

And before you start quoting about the Hamas atrocities from the 7th which I wholeheartedly disagree with as they are war crimes against Humanity including the Israeli's, before you go off on your normal garbage.

 

I acknowledge oppressed people have the right to resist. I do not think that such a right implies there are no red lines. As said earlier in the topic, had the Hamas attack been limited to the army bases and posts stormed, there would be less, and sans the gruesome atrocities, there would be less of a backlash, and less international backing for Israel's response.

 

You want to blame this on Israel? Not surprising - pretty much expected from an anti-semite Hamas apologist.

5 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Israel is not special.

No people are chosen people.

We are all equal.

 

 

   Religious Jews believe that God choose them to follow his commands as described in the Torah , which isn't too different to Christians believing that God choose them to follow Christianity and Muslims believing that they are the true believers .

   I am getting quite out of my depth here though, so I will have to consult Neeranams Rabbi friend for advice on the subject

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I can't see the Israeli Press posting it, can you?

Then there was the old Arab wandering around obviously shellshocked after the latest aerial bombardment near wherever he was sheltering, out he comes talking to some police or IDF people and low and behold someone shoots him dead, unarmed, disorientated and not hurting anyone, such brave people the Israeli's.

 

I am unable to view the video Jeff because I have anti-Guardian software installed on my computer, but I will take your word for what happened.

 

So, as a man with an obvious sense of moral outrage, how do you think this incident compares to the brave Hamas soldiers that cut open the stomach of a pregnant Israeli woman while she was alive, removed her unborn baby and beheaded it in front of her, before beheading her.

 

Just like to get a sense of how well balanced your moral outrage is, if you don’t mind, that is.

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I am getting quite out of my depth here though, so I will have to consult Neeranams Rabbi friend for advice on the subject

Cute!

Go to rabbi and ask him straight away: Do you consider you and your relatives and friends some sort of uber-mensch? a.k.a. "the chosen ones"? "superior human beings"?

I got to see it ))))

2 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Cute!

Go to rabbi and ask him straight away: Do you consider you and your relatives and friends some sort of uber-mensch? a.k.a. "the chosen ones"? "superior human beings"?

I got to see it ))))

 

  You can go and ask yourself on reddit groups , you can ask there .

Don't bother asking today though , its Shabbat and they won't be online 

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I acknowledge oppressed people have the right to resist. I do not think that such a right implies there are no red lines. As said earlier in the topic, had the Hamas attack been limited to the army bases and posts stormed, there would be less, and sans the gruesome atrocities, there would be less of a backlash, and less international backing for Israel's response.

 

You want to blame this on Israel? Not surprising - pretty much expected from an anti-semite Hamas apologist.

Living in cloud cuckoo land, you acknowledge oppressed people have the right to resist on one hand and when it goes to far you then you try to imply if it hadn't gone as terribly as it did the response from the IDF would have been less lethal, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Thanks for the last sentence, I don't know weather to wear it as a badge of honour or stick a notice over it saying another Zionist who has no Humanity.

4 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Cute!

Go to rabbi and ask him straight away: Do you consider you and your relatives and friends some sort of uber-mensch? a.k.a. "the chosen ones"? "superior human beings"?

I got to see it ))))

I've no idea why the poster you quote is talking about me, or my friend. Strange, I'd have thought he would have realized he's on ignore for being abusive.

8 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Hamas did indeed choose their own path.

 

Why has Netanyahu been such a staunch supporter of Hamas for the last 15 years?

 

So, the tens of thousands of hamas terrorists and the hundreds of thousands of civilians that support them do not represent Palestine, but Netanyahu represents all of Israel, got it. 

6 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I am unable to view the video Jeff because I have anti-Guardian software installed on my computer, but I will take your word for what happened.

 

So, as a man with an obvious sense of moral outrage, how do you think this incident compares to the brave Hamas soldiers that cut open the stomach of a pregnant Israeli woman while she was alive, removed her unborn baby and beheaded it in front of her, before beheading her.

 

Just like to get a sense of how well balanced your moral outrage is, if you don’t mind, that is.

Just as totally outraged, what's your point?

5 hours ago, 2baht said:

Who has killed the most civilians???

The communists 

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.

Once again for those of us that missed it:

 

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4 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

You twist things around to make your point so that Israel always looks whiter than white, no thought at all about the Israeli actions that cause the vast majority of the problems by treating fellow human beings as sub-human.

Sigh. Lying again cookie...

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   We re talking about this war .

It was the Palestinians  treating innocent Israelis as sub human in the terror attack  which caused this current war /Problems.

It is you who is twisting things around

 

And what were the Israeli's doing for the past 75 years, being all good old boys to the Arads, get out of here.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Sigh. Lying again cookie...

Prove it, Yellowtail

53 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   If you didn't mean that Israel are going into Gaza now because of oil and gas discoveries, what did you mean ?

Cutting off part of my post as usual, well done.

19 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Living in cloud cuckoo land, you acknowledge oppressed people have the right to resist on one hand and when it goes to far you then you try to imply if it hadn't gone as terribly as it did the response from the IDF would have been less lethal, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Thanks for the last sentence, I don't know weather to wear it as a badge of honour or stick a notice over it saying another Zionist who has no Humanity.

Know thyself Jeff. We see you.

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Cutting off part of my post as usual, well done.

Deflection 

6 hours ago, 2baht said:

Who has killed the most civilians???

Religious Zealots of all flavours, going back millennia