1 hour ago, Morch said:

For one thing, the area between the Israeli border pass and the southwards is already a battle zone. Unless mistaken, by now most of the populace of the strip is at the south side. There's not much sense in making them cross the battle zone - probably kinda hard to pass with all the destruction meted. Many of these people have dual-citizenship, and Israel will not wish to risk any suicide bombs attack on the pass, or allow Hamas to use such an opportunity for to attack.

 

I think the powers that be in Israel are aware that international support would eventually dwindle and the trend would change. Their take may be that the complications and risks of that you suggest, outweigh the possible benefits. Considering the international support clock starts ticking the minute the first bomb falls on the Gaza Strip, seems like their priorities using this time are different. It's also a safe bet that even if Israel was to do that, it would be criticized as not solving the whole issue of the currently displaced Gazans, with claims that Israel should provide them shelter and such even.

 

I think the issue now is more to do with Egypt - both with regard to reassurances it burdened with a flood of refugees, and not be put in a bad light in the Arab World as differentiating between Palestinians and foreigners.

 

I'm sorry but I  would rate that as a cop out. There will be many non Palestinians who were originally "granted" access to Gaza for reason well justified  by International humanitarian justification that even the extremist Israeli authorities  could not  easily deny.

My  question aligns with the numerous enquiries  being made on behalf of  foreign  entities known to be trapped inside  Gaza who by  no definition are  dual citizens at all !

If  the IDF genuinely intend only to seek and destroy  Hamas agents can they explain the  shelling on southern areas the  Gazans have been instructed to  retreat to?

The Rafah crossing  was closed by admitted Israeli shelling. The evidence of actions that supports the genocidal intent of Israel is accumulating  almost  hourly  now.

While the bias of propaganda will sadly taint reports the statistics indicate  60% of deaths in Gaza to date have been  women and children. Even if that is an exaggeration  it remains a fact that these are civilian victims of a bombing and shelling campaign in equal  inhumane retaliation to the (reported ? ) impact of the gross Hamas  assault. Intentional or not that mirrors the horrors of the ethnic cleansing Israel perpetrated on the Palestinians who plus ensuing generations have been  enclaved in the Gaza strip ever since

Two wrongs do not make a right. While Israelis may be being "justifiably" incensed to a renewed  distraction from Netanyahu's historic record of gross corruption unfortunately the potential for a wider conflagration involving several Muslim countries who feel both genuine core Islamic compulsion to confront Israel is being genuinely considered .

As the US  has found military resistance and capacity in surrounding territories is not so easily overcome. While Hamas may have some sympathies it is Hezbollah that commands a more serious capacity and support that threatens demonstration.

The threat of exterminational ( is that  not  word ? ) conflicts are currently expanding in potential driven by the basic ignorance of irrational emotional subscription to the dictate of  politically  endowed social psychopaths.

TWIF'd

 

expanding in potential

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Deflecting again, blaming the victims again. Classy.

Some Israeli families call PM Netanyahu a "traitor", because there was insufficient security for the settlers and soldiers.

To leave Gaza like Hamas did is impossible.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/israeli-protestors-call-pm-netanyahu-traitor-103982146 

4 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

I proved the claims providing the law and by saying that the law is being used, in daily life, to shut people's mouths. In Europe you can't say a Jew can be a bad person without being looked down as antisemitic.

You didn't prove your claims by providing any law or rule .

You just began calling people Rabbis and changed the subject to the situation in the Middle East .

   You can actually say that a particulate Jew is a bad person , its when you say that ALL Jews are bad people is when it falls foul or racial laws . (Which applies to all  races/minorities , not just Jews)

   There are anti racist/discrimination laws in the E.U

 

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

Was it 1 baby, 2, 3 or more? Were their parents legitimate targets IDF and caught in the crossfire living within close proximity to the worlds largest open prison? 

Did the Hamas force just attack the IDF bases and take some hostages, followed  bythe repressed population who also went through the wire and exacted vengeance for their lost children, brothers, sisters, parents.

How much is propaganda, how much is truth - never the twain will meet

An Eye for an Eye will makes us all blind except for last man standing with impaired vision. 

What a remarkably sick comment of denial and deflection; when I read your first few comments I thought you might be posting objectively, but  your anti-Israeli rhetoric didn’t take long to come bubbling to the surface …. crossfire, are you serious (rhetorical)

52 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Sleepy is a liar. He has a lot to gain with control of the middle east oil fields. 

Bush had a go too, with an equally unjust war. 

Can you explain how this conflict will lead to US control of the middle east oil fields?

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sick denialism, shameful rhetoric when verified video and image evidence clearly exists.

Not true, from a pure objective legal viewpoint he's right :  contrary to your words, International Law stablish that the occupation power is responsible for the well being of all civilians in its territory.

25 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

shalom means peace and rabbi means master. seeing antisemitism everywhere? get help! 

Just call him "Master" in future then , foreign words aren't allowed on here .

   Will you be calling him "Master" in future ?

If so, could you do likewise to me as well ?

19 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

I proved the claims providing the law and by saying that the law is being used, in daily life, to shut people's mouths. In Europe you can't say a Jew can be a bad person without being looked down as antisemitic.

 

That is absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said; you said it was against the law to criticise Israel in some countries, which it is not; now you have changed it to being looked down upon as antisemitic for calling a jew a bad person.

 

That is nothing to do with the law of any country, you just made up lies to suit your twisted narrative. You keep making things up.

2 hours ago, Thorgal said:

So Israel is not allowing water, electricity and gas to Gaza for it's own citizens (the Israeli hostages)...

The hostages are worth a lot more to hamas than the Palestinians.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

I wouldn't raise my family next to an "open prison" herded with repressed people that have had their mother, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters and infants that have been killed the populace on the other side of the fence. 

Excellent piece of victim blaming Paul Catton ..... a job awaits you at the BBC or the Guardian 

Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said:

What a remarkably sick comment of denial and deflection; when I read your first few comments I thought you might be posting objectively, but  your anti-Israeli rhetoric didn’t take long to come bubbling to the surface …. crossfire, are you serious (rhetorical)

Neither denial nor deflection.

I have spent a considerable time in the middle east.

I am agnostic and have no tolerance for crimes against humanity committed by any and all religious zealots on a tit for tat basis throughout ancient, modern and "very recent" history. 

All actions conducted today, starts a continuance tomorrow etc...

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Just call him "Master" in future then , foreign words aren't allowed on here .

   Will you be calling him "Master" in future ?

If so, could you do likewise to me as well ?

sure, master ????

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Excellent piece of victim blaming Paul Catton ..... a job awaits you at the BBC or the Guardian 

Lol a liberal... I knew it, let's go Brandon!

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Not true, from a pure objective legal viewpoint he's right :  contrary to your words, International Law stablish that the occupation power is responsible for the well being of all civilians in its territory.

Which parts of this are right exactly, let me know? & tell me why my response was contrary to the words? When your done with that I'll get back to you on international law.

 

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Excellent piece of victim blaming Paul Catton ..... a job awaits you at the BBC or the Guardian 

BBC preferably.

25 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Not denial, not rhetoric either, advise where the corresponding video or images of beheading or sadistic throat slashing are, as similar to Uncle Joe, we all have seen them, but we haven't.

Nah, I read your post and that's exactly what it was.

3 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

BBC preferably.

You’ll need to wear a nice frock, or tell them that you’re gender indeterminate

17 hours ago, RanongCat said:

If  the IDF genuinely intend only to seek and destroy  Hamas agents can they explain the  shelling on southern areas the  Gazans have been instructed to  retreat to?

Yes, Hamas are firing rockets from the southern areas using the civilians as human shields, this report from one of the southern cities they have evacuated to:

 

Khan Younis: A Gaza city on its knees, now with a million mouths to feed

And it is not as if this city is safe from harm. It is regularly bombed - it is still in a warzone. Collapsed buildings and piles of rubble litter the streets.

I heard rocket launches from near the hospital, as Hamas continues to strike inside Israel. That is an open invitation for retaliation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67116403

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes, Hamas are firing rockets from the southern areas using the civilians as human shields, this report from one of the southern cities they have evacuated to:

 

Khan Younis: A Gaza city on its knees, now with a million mouths to feed

And it is not as if this city is safe from harm. It is regularly bombed - it is still in a warzone. Collapsed buildings and piles of rubble litter the streets.

I heard rocket launches from near the hospital, as Hamas continues to strike inside Israel. That is an open invitation for retaliation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67116403

Oh ! So humanitarian  Principles  fail on both sides? Israel says  "go here"  and Hamas  says " Yeah, do it  ! ?

1 minute ago, RanongCat said:

I'm sorry but I  would rate that as a cop out. There will be many non Palestinians who were originally "granted" access to Gaza for reason well justified  by International humanitarian justification that even the extremist Israeli authorities  could not  easily deny.

My  question aligns with the numerous enquiries  being made on behalf of  foreign  entities known to be trapped inside  Gaza who by  no definition are  dual citizens at all !

If  the IDF genuinely intend only to seek and destroy  Hamas agents can they explain the  shelling on southern areas the  Gazans have been instructed to  retreat to?

The Rafah crossing  was closed by admitted Israeli shelling. The evidence of actions that supports the genocidal intent of Israel is accumulating  almost  hourly  now.

While the bias of propaganda will sadly taint reports the statistics indicate  60% of deaths in Gaza to date have been  women and children. Even if that is an exaggeration  it remains a fact that these are civilian victims of a bombing and shelling campaign in equal  inhumane retaliation to the (reported ? ) impact of the gross Hamas  assault. Intentional or not that mirrors the horrors of the ethnic cleansing Israel perpetrated on the Palestinians who plus ensuing generations have been  enclaved in the Gaza strip ever since

Two wrongs do not make a right. While Israelis may be being "justifiably" incensed to a renewed  distraction from Netanyahu's historic record of gross corruption unfortunately the potential for a wider conflagration involving several Muslim countries who feel both genuine core Islamic compulsion to confront Israel is being genuinely considered .

As the US  has found military resistance and capacity in surrounding territories is not so easily overcome. While Hamas may have some sympathies it is Hezbollah that commands a more serious capacity and support that threatens demonstration.

The threat of exterminational ( is that  not  word ? ) conflicts are currently expanding in potential driven by the basic ignorance of irrational emotional subscription to the dictate of  politically  endowed social psychopaths.

TWIF'd

 

expanding in potential

 

 

 

 

Some paragraph editing will be appreciated.

 

Not a cop out. I was giving my opinion as to what I think Israeli reasoning is based on, and what are their motivations.

 

It is true that there are clear cases where passage could be granted, but announcing such a move would inevitably result in all semi-applicable cases showing up as well. This would create the same sort of situation Egypt tries to avoid. From a PR point of view, it would be a disaster.

 

I'm not sure if I expanded or explained well enough one of the security issues. Opening the border pass in this manner will require a time window in which the border pass will be manned by Israelis, no Israeli strikes on the Gaza Strip. Quite a lot of Israelis to be lumped together on Hamas's front door. Even with ceasefire, trusting Hamas not to for it would be a major gamble.

 

I am not aware that areas designated as 'safe' for evacuees were attacked by the IAF. Not saying it did not happen, but not aware of such. Mistakes can happen on a battle zone, so there's that. But a deliberate attack as you imply? Probably not.

 

Almost all of the casualty figures from Gaza originate from the local ministry of health, controlled by Hamas. In past instances, casualty figure claims were routinely inflated in various ways. When the dust settles, there are usually three differing tallies remaining - the Hamas's, Israel's and the UN's.

 

There are a whole lot of civilian casualties, No one denies the fact. But there is a difference, even if some on here refuse to accept it, between deliberately targeting civilians (as in the Hamas attack) and what Israel does. It might be hard to grasp, but International law does not actually afford civilians full protections from all instances of war. It doesn't make it righteous, pretty or nice, or good. It's how it is.

 

I was answering your questions seriously until I ran into the 'genocide' nonsense now. If what Israel does is indeed a 'genocide'  or if Israel had such intentions, than it is going about it in a very half-arsed manner. Genocide would not include a call for civilians to evacuate, then bomb empty buildings.

 

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Which parts of this are right exactly, let me know? & tell me why my response was contrary to the words? When your done with that I'll get back to you on international law.

 

I agree with Paul and the protesting Israeli's.

 

4 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Oh ! So humanitarian  Principles  fail on both sides? Israel says  "go here"  and Hamas  says " Yeah, do it  ! ?

? No that's not it................

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

You’ll need to wear a nice frock, or tell them that you’re gender indeterminate

Paul is a masculine name and my own, so I wont hide behind a frock. Can't really see myself in drag and I don't think my children would forgive me if I told them that Dad is now non existent.

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

I agree with Paul and the protesting Israeli's.

 

He made an incoherent post no wonder you agree with it..........lol

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

Some paragraph editing will be appreciated.

 

Not a cop out. I was giving my opinion as to what I think Israeli reasoning is based on, and what are their motivations.

 

It is true that there are clear cases where passage could be granted, but announcing such a move would inevitably result in all semi-applicable cases showing up as well. This would create the same sort of situation Egypt tries to avoid. From a PR point of view, it would be a disaster.

 

I'm not sure if I expanded or explained well enough one of the security issues. Opening the border pass in this manner will require a time window in which the border pass will be manned by Israelis, no Israeli strikes on the Gaza Strip. Quite a lot of Israelis to be lumped together on Hamas's front door. Even with ceasefire, trusting Hamas not to for it would be a major gamble.

 

I am not aware that areas designated as 'safe' for evacuees were attacked by the IAF. Not saying it did not happen, but not aware of such. Mistakes can happen on a battle zone, so there's that. But a deliberate attack as you imply? Probably not.

 

Almost all of the casualty figures from Gaza originate from the local ministry of health, controlled by Hamas. In past instances, casualty figure claims were routinely inflated in various ways. When the dust settles, there are usually three differing tallies remaining - the Hamas's, Israel's and the UN's.

 

There are a whole lot of civilian casualties, No one denies the fact. But there is a difference, even if some on here refuse to accept it, between deliberately targeting civilians (as in the Hamas attack) and what Israel does. It might be hard to grasp, but International law does not actually afford civilians full protections from all instances of war. It doesn't make it righteous, pretty or nice, or good. It's how it is.

 

I was answering your questions seriously until I ran into the 'genocide' nonsense now. If what Israel does is indeed a 'genocide'  or if Israel had such intentions, than it is going about it in a very half-arsed manner. Genocide would not include a call for civilians to evacuate, then bomb empty buildings.

 

Still a cop out !

Is it an assertion or a fact Israel is only bombing empty buildings ?

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

He made an incoherent post no wonder you agree with it..........lol

At least I made you laugh !

2 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Paul is a masculine name and my own, so I wont hide behind a frock. Can't really see myself in drag and I don't think my children would forgive me if I told them that Dad is now non existent.

I fully understand, but you wouldn't get past the first interview 

36 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Some Israeli families call PM Netanyahu a "traitor", because there was insufficient security for the settlers and soldiers.

To leave Gaza like Hamas did is impossible.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/israeli-protestors-call-pm-netanyahu-traitor-103982146 

Some American families call Joe Biden, Donald Trump and Abraham Lincon traitors, 

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Some American families call Joe Biden, Donald Trump and Abraham Lincon traitors, 

Can somebody calibrate this AI bot?

Just now, RanongCat said:

Still a cop out !

Is it an assertion or a fact Israel is only bombing empty buildings ?

I answered your questions, patiently even.

I have provided answers, which you may not like, but are reasonable and fact based.

I have pointed several inaccuracies and so on in your post.

 

You can't handle it, so you shout 'cop out'.

 

I did said 'only', that's your addition. The point was that asking people to evacuate before you bomb them is counterproductive if you wish to carry on a proper genocide.