Old age pensions of the World

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am still confused  over the two year rule in Australia. I had been overseas several times before qualifying for the OAP, my understanding was I had to be in Australia the day I became eligible, and have been resident for 35 years to get the full entitlement.

I have no complaint about the pension. It may not be as generous as some; however, it is adequate for my life in Thailand.

 

The 2 year rule in Australia is there to deter expats from returning to obtain the age pension for portability purposes, e.g. come back to Oz, get it and then take off again and have it paid to them while they are overseas.

 

The above said, for someone like myself who is almost there i.e. 65 years old and living overseas, means it isn't feasible because the age pension wouldn't even meet the rent that I would be paying, albeit I could ask for rental assistance and also be provided with a Supplement and Energy Allowance, but if you haven't checked what food costs there of late, your in for a real shocker, it's about 3 times more expensive than here.

 

If you yourself received your age pension while being overseas several times before qualifying for the OAP, then you weren't living overseas, I mean you can travel and holiday, say up to 6 months a year, but if you return for say the other 6 months, then Australia is your abode as far as they're concerned, providing you retained your residency as well, e.g. maybe paid some taxes as well ?

 

For any Ozzie expats wanting to return to receive the age pension, it would be best to return when they are 65, and best get a job to assist your living needs, or you go on the dole for the 2 years and do it tough, at least that way when your time is up to qualify at 67, you can have it made portable straight away and leave. 

 

Going back at 67 means you have to prove that your back to stay and then 2 years later at 69 while your not getting any younger you can also have it made portable.

 

Some may say how do you get a job at 65, well, I suppose if you look hard enough and are prepared to work some shifts that others aren't prepared to, you might just have some better luck, it really boils down to how you want to live during your prison term, for me, I need to eat quality foods, drink good alcohol and enjoy myself in my "retirement years", so working will keep me where I'm at, at the moment, enjoying my "retirement years".

Edited October 23, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, Brick Top said:

In the UK , I was self employed from 1982 to retiring here in 2004. I had paid over £400,000 in income tax. 

I am entitled to receive my UK pension when I am 66 next year, when I checked I was entitled to £76 a week. I was told I had missing weeks in my National Insurance records.

So I back paid from my own money £13,800 , now i am still not entitled to full pension as some years prior to 2006 I only had 49, 50 and 51 weeks instead of 52. Those shortfalls cant be paid as can only go back to 2006. This means I will still only have 32 full years instead of the 35 full years to get the full state pension. Whilst those who have either never worked or been in the role must of there life will get the full state pension.

Then on top of this UK pensions are frozen from the date you reach retirement age if you reside in Thailand.

This is the UK Government for you , totol shambles

Count yourself lucky. I've paid more tax than you and still paying, but the only thing I'll get is a big fat zero. The Oz gubement classifies me as wealthy, and I won't get any pension because "I don't need it". Smells like communism to me. On top of that I won't get any subsidised medicine which the old age pension retirees get. It would be much better to have the US style Social Security system.

[georgegeorgia]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

Count yourself lucky. I've paid more tax than you and still paying, but the only thing I'll get is a big fat zero. The Oz gubement classifies me as wealthy, and I won't get any pension because "I don't need it". Smells like communism to me. On top of that I won't get any subsidised medicine which the old age pension retirees get. It would be much better to have the US style Social Security system.

Well Australia all has a "assets" test for people applying for the old age pension.

Those that saved too much , working too hard don't get it 🤣

[Yellowtail]

Just now, georgegeorgia said:

Well Australia all has a "assets" test for people applying for the old age pension.

Those that saved too much , working too hard don't get it 🤣

Yeah, the left in the US wants this as well. 

[Celsius]

11 hours ago, gargamon said:

I see you obviously haven't needed to use the health care system in Canada. Wait until you need to use it. Need a specialist? Get in line and wait months/years to get in to see them. The free long term care consists of them keeping you locked in a room and sedated most of the day. Need the ER? Waits over 10 hours are normal.

 

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap. And guess what? It never snows in Thailand. 

 

This is not something I hear from people in Toronto where I still have a lot of contacts. As a matter of fact my 76 year old mom gets excellent care in Ontario and I am sure she will outlive every single poster here.

 

I do sometimes wonder why people who move to another country love to spread lies?

[Confuscious]

[thaicurious]

15 hours ago, KhunLA said:

lol yeah i got a couple of good ones near me too. In fact that was my intro to Thai culture decades ago. The food delicious and the people there lovely. Maybe I was thinking readily available street food or at least not priced so as to pay for American strip mall overhead. Also in being kept from my Thai dream by caring for aging parents & then staying safe myself from covid, I've taught myself to cook Thai cuisine (some of their flavor combinations are genius), but I'm not counting that either.

[thaicurious]

9 hours ago, charleskerins said:

What does it insure? It works like a pension  ,payments based on what you paid and worked.  

 

I think the term "insurance" is more in line with this:

The social insurance system in the US: Policies to protect workers and families (brookings.edu)

"The social insurance system in the United States, implemented by federal, state, and local government agencies, provides protection against what President Franklin Delano Roosevelt called the vicissitudes of life: disability, the loss of earnings in old age, being laid off, and other setbacks."

 

So not a Ponzi scheme, not even a pyramid scheme but a social insurance funded in part by employee and employer contributions, part by investments, part by future worker/employer contributions & yes part by those who also rolled the dice in simply living in the modern world as we all did but wound up not collecting, all of which essentially spreads the risk to lessen hardships of surviving individuals as insurance is meant to do.

[thaicurious]

3 hours ago, Confuscious said:

 

love it, also be my daddy lol. My grandpa looked that good. When visiting friends wanted to play tennis, I'd send them out with grandpa. They'd come home & he'd still be out on the court. I've done pretty good but arthritis makes it tough. Well into my 60s I've still got a zero coronary calcium score, thank you very much. My brother? Not so much. Didn't take care of himself, now with heart attack and stroke and stents and dementia and yikes, what did you do to yourself! He had such good examples in life. Mom very health conscious, grandpa an athlete, I was always good with eating and swam about a mile a day (down to half that these days). And I knew to do this because I watched them age next to their cohorts and decided decades ago that I wanted to be like them, not like their decrepit friends. My brother made his choice too. Sad.

 

If good health and longevity increases retirement age, what isn't a mixed blessing?

[traveller101]

It would also be interesting how much you actually receive, if you satisfy the various rules and requirements.

I can only speak for Australia and Switzerland, comparing the two countries.

Maximum pension p.a. (in US$)

 

Australia        single       married/partner

                      18'000           27'300

Switzerland  33'000          49'500

 

Primary eligibility criteria:

Should your net assets (excl. your home) exceed US$192'000 (single),

US$286'000 (married/partner), your pension starts reducing with every $ above those values. It is called the "asset test".

Switzerland's  requires one's contribution to the pension scheme for a consecutive 44 years. Note: you can contribute a stated minimum amount while living abroad to fulfill this requirement.

Switzerland's pension is paid to wherever you live and indexed.

No asset test applies, everybody gets it.

Australia does not pay a pension for people living abroad

 

 

 

 

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Did you have to pay premiums, ie we’re wages deducted during your working life as a requirement to be included in the folkepension?

No, folkepension is fully funded by the present tax-payers; it's not based on savings.

 

There is an additional small work life-pension by law, it's called ATP – "Arbejdsmarkedets tillægspension", which translates to: "Labour Market Supplementary Pension" – where the employee pays a small tax-deducted amount depending of worktime; i.e. by hours, half-time or full-time. The amount is just under $14 per month for a full time worker, the employer pays double as much, so in total almost $42 per month. The money goes into a foundation and are invested, the dividends, gains and interests are paid as life-long supplement pension, which is around 27,300 dkk ($3,900) in 2023 for the whole year, minus income tax; after tax it's around $2,400 or $200 per month.

 

All other pensions are private, which can be part of an employment agreement. However, quite a number of people never saved up for their retirement and they lives from folkepension and often also the ATP at some or other level.

[Bobthegimp]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:40 AM, gargamon said:

OAS is for people who don't get CPP

 

This is incorrect.

Canadians are entitled to both, and poor seniors are also entitled to the "Guaranteed Income Supplement" (GIS) which can still be collected if the recipient spends a minimum of 6 months in Canada.   

 

Old Age Security (OAS) is paid and indexed no matter where the recipient lives. 

[Bobthegimp]

21 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

This is not something I hear from people in Toronto where I still have a lot of contacts. As a matter of fact my 76 year old mom gets excellent care in Ontario and I am sure she will outlive every single poster here.

 

I do sometimes wonder why people who move to another country love to spread lies?

As a Canadian, I assure you that it isn't a lie. 

 

Your mom's experience is not indicative of the experience of a vast number of Canadians.   My niece waited 12 hours in a clinic with a small child who was burning up with a fever.  My friend's mom died on a gurney in the hallway after being left there for 8 hours in a pool of her own excrement. 

 

People who require urgent care usually receive it in a timely manner. Quality of life issues, like joint replacement surgery or other issues that plague the old or infirm take much longer to receive care for, sometimes years.  Good luck finding a dermatologist in BC.  I haven't had a GP since 2006 when my lifelong doctor retired.  Canada has rationed healthcare. 

 

Clinics have become the backbone of front line care and are often staffed by nurse practitioners.  In my very limited experience the NP provided excellent and compassionate care, whereas most doctors are burned out and dead inside.  

 

The Canadian healthcare system won't bankrupt individuals, but it can kill them. Does your medical system euthanize people yet?  Ours killed 12k last year and the numbers are growing. 

[rickudon]

On 10/23/2023 at 2:45 PM, 1happykamper said:

Interesting topic for many here. 

I'm curious too.... 

 

I now collect a USA pension after working there 38 years. 

 

I was born July 1951 in the UK... I worked for only 6 years there..low wages. Do I qualify for a UK pension? 

 

Hmmmm....

You have to have a minimum of 10 years to get anything. Look to see if you can back pay NI contributions for 4-5 years, to get to the minimum. First get a pension forecast from the government website. Need 35 years to get maximum.

[rickudon]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:42 PM, Sheryl said:

A question for those fro m the UK:

 

What on earth is the difference between a "state pension" and a government pension? I see the distinction in the UK-Thai DTA but have no idea what it means, to me a "state pension" and a "government pension" would mean the same thing. ???

Sheryl, the Government Pension in the UK is called the State Pension, Everyone (well most) automatically get about 11% deducted from their Pay, called National Insurance. It is used to fund the State Pension and the NHS (although it doesn't fully cover the cost). You have to have 35 years of contributions to get the maximum - it doesn't depend on how much you paid, but how long. It is about 160 GBP a week (or was a year or 2 ago) if you have the 35 years ... BUT it is reduced if you have another pension (Company, Private or 'Government') which are all dependent on how much you contribute.

The 'Government' Pension is a pension paid to retired Government employees. And under Thailand's double taxation agreement, that pension is not liable to Thai income tax. All other pensions, including State, could be taxed in Thailand.

 

Hope that helps!

[still kicking]

On 10/23/2023 at 7:10 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

So, Australia sucks? I live in Australia for 43 years and paid the highest tax then how I am not complaining? Go back where you come from and shut up.

[georgegeorgia]

14 hours ago, traveller101 said:

It would also be interesting how much you actually receive, if you satisfy the various rules and requirements.

I can only speak for Australia and Switzerland, comparing the two countries.

Maximum pension p.a. (in US$)

 

Australia        single       married/partner

                      18'000           27'300

Switzerland  33'000          49'500

 

Primary eligibility criteria:

Should your net assets (excl. your home) exceed US$192'000 (single),

US$286'000 (married/partner), your pension starts reducing with every $ above those values. It is called the "asset test".

Switzerland's  requires one's contribution to the pension scheme for a consecutive 44 years. Note: you can contribute a stated minimum amount while living abroad to fulfill this requirement.

Switzerland's pension is paid to wherever you live and indexed.

No asset test applies, everybody gets it.

 

Australia does not pay a pension for people living abroad

 

 

 

 

Australia DOES  pay a pension if you live abroad,how do you think the old  Aussies are living in Philippines and Thailand.

 

You can even be on the disability pension if your sickness is deemed permanent 

Edited October 24, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[observer90210]

It's not's only about age or one's country. It's also about the job involved. Speed train drivers of the previous generations in France were retiring until few years ago at 55 provided they did their entire career with the State Run train (SNCF) with a pension that many would envy. Same for the air trafic controllers in Spain or France with retirement at aroung 50 something.

 

The Golden Globe goes to the Swiss with many public service officials (police, fire etc) who retire after 30-35  yerars of service with pensions going anywhere from 7'400 Swiss Francs per month to approx 10'000 CHF/month (before tax) for the senior officers.

Edited October 24, 2023 by observer90210

[Captain Monday]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:07 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

The 2 year rule in Australia is there to deter expats from returning to obtain the age pension for portability purposes, e.g. come back to Oz, get it and then take off again and have it paid to them while they are overseas.

 

The above said, for someone like myself who is almost there i.e. 65 years old and living overseas, means it isn't feasible because the age pension wouldn't even meet the rent that I would be paying, albeit I could ask for rental assistance and also be provided with a Supplement and Energy Allowance, but if you haven't checked what food costs there of late, your in for a real shocker, it's about 3 times more expensive than here.

 

If you yourself received your age pension while being overseas several times before qualifying for the OAP, then you weren't living overseas, I mean you can travel and holiday, say up to 6 months a year, but if you return for say the other 6 months, then Australia is your abode as far as they're concerned, providing you retained your residency as well, e.g. maybe paid some taxes as well ?

 

For any Ozzie expats wanting to return to receive the age pension, it would be best to return when they are 65, and best get a job to assist your living needs, or you go on the dole for the 2 years and do it tough, at least that way when your time is up to qualify at 67, you can have it made portable straight away and leave. 

 

Going back at 67 means you have to prove that your back to stay and then 2 years later at 69 while your not getting any younger you can also have it made portable.

 

Some may say how do you get a job at 65, well, I suppose if you look hard enough and are prepared to work some shifts that others aren't prepared to, you might just have some better luck, it really boils down to how you want to live during your prison term, for me, I need to eat quality foods, drink good alcohol and enjoy myself in my "retirement years", so working will keep me where I'm at, at the moment, enjoying my "retirement years".

Recently I went to Brisbane for the firstime visited the West End

There on Boundary Street there were many signs and historical markers one explained how men would come with stock whips to crack and get all the blacks out by sundown then on Sunday they were not allowed in town at all

 

I happened to see some people sitting on the pavement who were appeared to be ingigenous Australians doing nothing wrong at all getting harrassed by a WHITE woman policeman.

 

Wonderful country that confronts its history. In America now the politicians want to ban history and even say slavery was beneficial.

[Dodgy Member]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

happened to see some people sitting on the pavement who were appeared to be ingigenous Australians doing nothing wrong at all getting harrassed by a WHITE woman policeman

Hey, Captain Woke

 

You have no idea what was going on or what the history was.  Those indigenous people (fixed that bad spelling for you) might beat the snot out of your woke gluteus maximus and taken everything of value on your unconscious carcass.  They do it to us as readily as they do it to anyone else. 

 

Those of us from countries with large indigenous populations well understand why our incarceration rates are so high, even after the woke brigade holds us to a much lower standard than the rest of the populace.

 

Before you chime in on me, understand that I'm a Metis and know of what I speak. The worst harms have been inflicted by our own leaders.  Your low expectations and treating us as perpetual victims isn't helping. 

 

Thank you for the good intentions but piss off and let us sort this out ourselves. 

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, Dodgy Member said:

Hey, Captain Woke

 

You have no idea what was going on or what the history was.  Those indigenous people (fixed that bad spelling for you) might beat the snot out of your woke gluteus maximus and taken everything of value on your unconscious carcass.  They do it to us as readily as they do it to anyone else. 

 

Those of us from countries with large indigenous populations well understand why our incarceration rates are so high, even after the woke brigade holds us to a much lower standard than the rest of the populace.

 

Before you chime in on me, understand that I'm a Metis and know of what I speak. The worst harms have been inflicted by our own leaders.  Your low expectations and treating us as perpetual victims isn't helping. 

 

Thank you for the good intentions but piss off and let us sort this out ourselves. 

Hey Snowflake,

The abbos there were  harmless alcoholics and women. According to what you wrote it was better when they could be driven out of town by WHITE Aussie men cracking stock whips I know plenty of them going back to the 80’s. Decent “blokes” aside from the racism and homophobia

[Bobthegimp]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:11 PM, georgegeorgia said:

Well Australia all has a "assets" test for people applying for the old age pension.

Those that saved too much , working too hard don't get it 🤣

 

That's called "means" testing (vs "income" testing) and is a more fair way to measure a person's need for old age welfare.

 

Trust me, the people who are above the income/means threshold level don't need the additional few hundred per month.  Many pride themselves on not qualifying for it, having managed their finances well enough to garner an ample income and asseted for retirement. They're the ones carrying the rest of us, though most of us are too ignorant of taxation laws to realize it. 

 

[georgegeorgia]

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Recently I went to Brisbane for the firstime visited the West End

There on Boundary Street there were many signs and historical markers one explained how men would come with stock whips to crack and get all the blacks out by sundown then on Sunday they were not allowed in town at all

 

I happened to see some people sitting on the pavement who were appeared to be ingigenous Australians doing nothing wrong at all getting harrassed by a WHITE woman policeman.

 

Wonderful country that confronts its history. In America now the politicians want to ban history and even say slavery was beneficial.

One of the misconceptions is you have to have black skin to identify as Aboriginal?

 

How do you know the "white" police officer as you identify her wasn't Aboriginal?

 

You don't need to be black to identify as Aboriginal in Australia , 

 

Your assuming  because she's "white" skinned ?

 

She may be ave the Koori emblem on her shoulder and identify 

 

They say there are more white skinned Aboriginals in Australia than black skinned .

 

Please get rid of that misconception that you need to be black to be Australian Aboriginal 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[georgegeorgia]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Hey Snowflake,

The abbos there were  harmless alcoholics and women. According to what you wrote it was better when they could be driven out of town by WHITE Aussie men cracking stock whips I know plenty of them going back to the 80’s. Decent “blokes” aside from the racism and homophobia

Think before you post such words please 

Edited October 25, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[noobexpat]

10 hours ago, rickudon said:

... BUT it is reduced if you have another pension (Company, Private or 'Government') which are all dependent on how much you contribute.

 

The state pension is never reduced.

What are you referring to? ...contracted in and out occupational schemes?

[jaideedave]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:18 PM, KhunLA said:

I took company pension early, as rolling the dice, that I'll crap out before 75.   Live longer, and it was a bad idea, but only about 12.5k a month at 35.5/$1. loss.

 

Soc Sec was irrelevant, as been collecting (disability) for 22+ yrs, since 46 yrs old.

 

Agree, they want you to wait, as they know, most will die.  I've posted this before, and accurate #s from IAM union.  I know they disperse 18 months of retirement checks on average to NWA employees, (now DL) and in my job classification, only 11 months worth 😲  Meaning most would not have made it to my age.

 

That's why retirement funds are underfunded, (for those thinking about 70s & 80s) as they know, they'll never never need to pay out that much.

Very interesting.I've also been collecting a union pension since Jan1st,2006.I worked at a smelly pulp mill in Canada for exactly 30 years and took early retirement as soon as I hit 55.I happily accepted the 18% penalty.I consider myself fortunate that the plan has been well invested and I receive periodic increases.I think I'm ahead of the game is spite of the fact 10% of my pay was deducted for this benefit for 30 yrs. Between this plus 2 other CDN govt pensions I can afford what I consider a decent living here in LOS.     

[keith101]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:01 AM, georgegeorgia said:

With Australia the worst waiting until 67yo nowadays but must be residing in the Country 2 years beforehand to gain access to overseas payment.

I returned to Aus at 63 did the 2 years and came back to Thailand at 65 with my pension

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

Very interesting.I've also been collecting a union pension since Jan1st,2006.I worked at a smelly pulp mill in Canada for exactly 30 years and took early retirement as soon as I hit 55.I happily accepted the 18% penalty.I consider myself fortunate that the plan has been well invested and I receive periodic increases.I think I'm ahead of the game is spite of the fact 10% of my pay was deducted for this benefit for 30 yrs. Between this plus 2 other CDN govt pensions I can afford what I consider a decent living here in LOS.     

The penalty for my pension was 4% per year taken early, instead of age 65.  I think I took it shy of 12yrs since 47% penalty, as get $357 instead of $674 (USD), I think it was.  So ~76 yrs old is the break even point.  Although I could actually live on ~12k baht a month, it's nice having govt Soc Sec, being more than enough for retirement visa, by itself.  Pension pays for our 0&A hotel stays 😂

 

Aside from protected my pension, the union/IAM was pretty crap, and only negotiated $50 per year of service, and I was only there 13.48 years.  Really screwed the NWA employees that were left, when DL took over at bankruptcy.  So glad I left while under the last IAM contract w/NWA.

Edited October 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[Lancelot01]

On 10/23/2023 at 6:10 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

Also, am I right in saying that the amount of any other pension payments (from outside Australia) is deducted from an individuals Australian pension?

[georgegeorgia]

5 hours ago, keith101 said:

I returned to Aus at 63 did the 2 years and came back to Thailand at 65 with my pension

Yep , before they had the age at 65 ,same with the UK ,

Sadly it's now risen to 67