Michael Cohen says he inflated assets to ‘whatever number Trump told us to’

[FritsSikkink]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

You really worked for a bank?

 

Do you understand that loan interest rates are partially based on the valuation of applicant assets?

 

Don't you think it's good public policy to ensure that valuations are not fraudulent?

Cleaning a bank in the park?

[Danderman123]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:42 PM, Longwood50 said:

Stuff deleted

 

Assuming you are a reasonable person, do you not understand that Trump is a long time con man?

 

Is this the case where you know he's a grifter, but you think that he's not grifting you? Forgetting his politics, how can you support someone so dishonest?

 

Please do not response with a list of Biden's lies, most of those are petty or screw-ups, and not germane.

 

 

 

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Please do not response with a list of Biden's lies, most of those are petty or screw-ups, and not germane.

That is "your opinion"  The fact is that Trump may not be a perfect man.  However as I have repeatedly said, if it were not political, there would be no trial.  The banks did not bring forth any charges and to the best of my knowledge his obligations to the banks have been repaid as agreed. 

Using James Comey former head of the FBI when he let Hillary off the hook, he said NO REASONABLE PROSECUTOR WOULD BRING THE CASE. 

The crimes against Hillary were far more severe and far less subjective.  There is not once chance in a billion that Trump would be prosecuted if he was just an ordinary citizen.  

[Danderman123]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:13 AM, Longwood50 said:

Inaccurate stuff deleted.

One of your tactics is "whataboutism". This is when you try to compare Trump's criming with others.

 

Try to think of it like this:

 

Someone near and dear to you is injured by a criminal. When apprehended, the criminal asks: "What about so-and-so, they haven't been arrested yet?"

 

Not a criminal defense.

 

The issue on the table is Trump's criming, not what Herbert Hoover did in 1907. You obviously learned "whataboutism" from FOX News, along with a bunch of other worn out debate tactics.

 

Yes, I am sure you are outraged that Joe Biden took a walk on the beach this weekend.

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

That is "your opinion"  The fact is that Trump may not be a perfect man.  

The fact is that Trump is under indictment for 91 crimes, plus now in a fraud trial.

 

The fact that you can't focus on that, and insist on rambling about ancient history indicates you have been conned by Trump.

 

The question in this fraud trial isn't guilt, its the penalty. But you do know Trump committed fraud, right?

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Danderman123

[Longwood50]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

One of your tactics is "whataboutism". This is when you try to compare Trump's criming with others.

This is nothing but the Stalinist regime deliberately taking charges that would not be brought against an absolute similar case.  As a former banker I can tell you that even if the bank lost money, there would not be charges brought against the person for making any false representations.  

Trump like any other borrower tried to portray his assets in the most favorable way.  He would have had to have submitted documentation to support those valuations.  Now suddenly though the bank approved them, and is still being paid, someone after the fact is claiming the valuations were false. 

Sorry, not a single person in all my 34 years in banking with some of the largest financial instituions in the USA did I ever encounter a single person being prosecuted for inflating values on a financial statement.  That would be punctuated where the bank was being repaid.  They would have no damage and hence no cause. 

[Longwood50]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The question in this fraud trial isn't guilt, its the penalty. But you do know Trump committed fraud, right?

Yes and Hillary Clinton destroyed emails under subpoena
Sandy Berger stole classified documents in his pants

Bill Clinton lied under oath

Hunter Biden lied on a federal form.

It is selective prosecution purely politically driven. 

[Danderman123]

38 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Yes and Hillary Clinton destroyed emails under subpoena
Sandy Berger stole classified documents in his pants

Bill Clinton lied under oath

Hunter Biden lied on a federal form.

It is selective prosecution purely politically driven. 

What about?

 

Is that all you have? How much FOX News do you watch?

[Danderman123]

41 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

This is nothing but the Stalinist regime deliberately taking charges that would not be brought against an absolute similar case.  As a former banker I can tell you that even if the bank lost money, there would not be charges brought against the person for making any false representations.  
 

SEC Charges Infinity Q Founder with Orchestrating Massive Valuation Fraud

 

https://www.netsuite.com/portal/resource/articles/accounting/financial-statement-fraud.shtml

 

Asset valuation fraud is common, and commonly prosecuted. 

 

Your work experience is not germane to this case.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

56 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

This is nothing but the Stalinist regime deliberately taking charges that would not be brought against an absolute similar case.  As a former banker I can tell you that even if the bank lost money, there would not be charges brought against the person for making any false representations.  

Trump like any other borrower tried to portray his assets in the most favorable way.  He would have had to have submitted documentation to support those valuations.  Now suddenly though the bank approved them, and is still being paid, someone after the fact is claiming the valuations were false. 

Sorry, not a single person in all my 34 years in banking with some of the largest financial instituions in the USA did I ever encounter a single person being prosecuted for inflating values on a financial statement.  That would be punctuated where the bank was being repaid.  They would have no damage and hence no cause. 

Give it up mate. Judge Arthur F. Engoron has already ruled on Sept. 26 that Trump had committed fraud by inflating his assets. The on-going case is how much is he liable. Letitia James is seeking $250m in fines and a ban on Trump doing business in his home state. I have a good feeling the fine will likely to be more the $250m judging from the magnitude of his fraudulent assets inflation. 

[Longwood50]

18 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

 

Asset valuation fraud is common, and commonly prosecuted

Asset valuation fraud is common but where there is an injured party.  

I CHALLENGE YOU 

Name once time, just one time where Letticia James or the Attorney Generals of NY office  has ever gone after a company for filing inacurate financial statements where the financial institution was being paid as agreed and there was no complaint filed by the financial institution. 

IF YOU CAN'T I REST MY CASE THIS IS PURELY POLITICALLY DRIVEN. 



 

[Danderman123]

8 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Asset valuation fraud is common but where there is an injured party.  

I CHALLENGE YOU 

Name once time, just one time where Letticia James or the Attorney Generals of NY office  has ever gone after a company for filing inacurate financial statements where the financial institution was being paid as agreed and there was no complaint filed by the financial institution. 

IF YOU CAN'T I REST MY CASE THIS IS PURELY POLITICALLY DRIVEN. 



 

As mentioned before, Trump's reason for inflating the value of his assets was to secure lower interest rates.

 

If you can't understand this, everyone will know why.

 

More to the point, it is good public policy to deter what is now widespread asset valuation fraud. Don't you agree?

 

I hope you are finished spewing FOX News talking points. These are aimed at low information viewers, you can't sell them here.

[Danderman123]

There was a glitch in the last 24 hours, when Cohen seemed to admit that Trump never told him to inflate the value of Trump's assets.

 

There was later clarification when Cohen stated that Trump's orders were clear, but indirect. Like a Mob boss.

[Danderman123]

For you Trump fans:

 

It's all going to end for you someday. Maybe it will take 10 years, but, at some point, you're going to wake up and realize you've been lied to. You are not going to your grave as a Trump fan (unless you are hit by a bus tomorrow), you *will* have a realization that it is not a giant conspiracy, Trump is simply lying to you.

 

Same as the war in Iraq. How many people still believe the WMD lie?

 

Or the Vietnam war - what was that about anyway? I knew Republicans who wanted to nuke Vietnam, but who didn't know where it was.

 

Just as Vietnam and Iran are widely descredited, Trump will be, too.

 

 

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You really worked for a bank?

 

Do you understand that loan interest rates are partially based on the valuation of applicant assets?

 

Don't you think it's good public policy to ensure that valuations are not fraudulent?

Hey, the under valuation he did when he paid taxes (some years a billionaire and didn't pay tax at all - that too is a CRIME in the USA.

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, Presnock said:

Hey, the under valuation he did when he paid taxes (some years a billionaire and didn't pay tax at all - that too is a CRIME in the USA.

This is an area where I have some experience.

 

Property assessments are usually conducted on the county level. It's a negotiation between the property owner and the assessor. Each is supposed to research the property and offer a valuation. At the end, the Assessor makes a decision, mostly based on sale prices of comparable properties.

 

So, the assessed value of Trump's property is the opinion of the Assessor. Which means that assessed valuation is probably close to the market value.

 

But, no criminal liability for Trump.

[pomchop]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, Longwood50 said:

That is a false equivalent.  A loan obligation is a promise to pay back period.  So long as the debtor pays back to the lender, the underlying collateral is not an issue. 

As to the Judge.  Yes and you could just as easily gone to another judge who would rule that it was not fraud.  One only has to look at the OJ Simpson trial to know that the courts are hardly infallible or biased. 

OJ was found not guilty by a jury.  He was found not guilty  by a supporter who got on the jury and refused to accept the facts that proved beyond a reasonable doubt (some would say a shadow of a doubt) that OJ did it (which he most certainly did).

 

Trump was found guilty by a judge and not by a jury.

 

The brilliant man trump who is so very very smart and knows more about everything than anyone did not notice or have a clue about the law and his equally moronic attorneys picked by him did not check a simple law school 101 box that requested a jury trial.  Therefore he got..as requested... a bench trial with no jury and was found guilty of fraud.

 

Now he is as usual whining about how if he had a jury instead of the "biased" judge everything would be "perfect" playing to his supporters ignorance that trump chose not to have  jury. 

 

  As the various cases continue with jury trials trump is of course trying to poison the jury pool with lies and threats hoping to get an OJ hail mary juror that will ignore the vast amount of evidence presented and like in the OJ trial vote not guilty.

 

How many times does trump have to demonstrate how full of crap he is until his supporters finally figure it out?

[Longwood50]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:41 PM, Danderman123 said:

As mentioned before, Trump's reason for inflating the value of his assets was to secure lower interest rates.

 

If you can't understand this, everyone will know why.

 

More to the point, it is good public policy to deter what is now widespread asset valuation fraud. Don't you agree?

 

I hope you are finished spewing FOX News talking points. These are aimed at low information viewers, you can't sell them here.

As I have said, irrespective of whether Trump did inflate assets to secure loans THERE IS NO VICTIM.  The asset values only become relative in the event they are repossessed and are worth less than the amount of the loan. 

Now the government is misdirecting you to look at the asset value at the time of the loan.  WHAT ARE THOSE ASSETS WORTH TODAY. 

You keep focusing on if there is " a crime"  I have said that the government is being weaponized against a political opponent. 

Did the attorney general of New York similarly dig into the records of the banks of OTHER INDIVIDUALS OR COMPANIES to see if they similarly filed false financial information without the bank filing a complaint. 

If they didn't IT IS PATENTLY CLEAR THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE "TARGETED" TRUMP"

The attorney generals office could have scoured the records of all the banks and ask to review all the financial records of all the loans to see who else might have inflated values.  THEY DIDN'T they went solely after Trump singling him out for prosecution. 

In the end irrespective of whether the asset values were inflated or not, the banks were not harmed, and they did not file the complaint.  THAT SIR IS MALICIOUS POLITICAL PROSECUTION.  

Also the banks are typically Federally Chartered that is governed by the Federal Government.  They are insured by the FDIC again a federal organization.  Yet it is a states action not the federal government happening only in a Liberal State by and Extremely Liberal Attorney General  

POLITICAL PROSECUTION.  PROSECUTING A VICTIMLESS CRIME. 

[Yellowtail]

Wow, the bank takes your word in regard to the value of your loan collateral?

 

[Longwood50]

18 hours ago, pomchop said:

Trump was found guilty by a judge and not by a jury

And so does this Judge have infallibility? 

Seems to me that 9 justices of the Supreme Court once ruled on Roe v Wade and decades later 9 different judges ruled that the other court was wrong. 

My point remains the same.  The banks did nto file a complaint.  A very biased Attorney General ignored looking at any other company or individual who similarly "may have" inflated asset values to obtain a loan and chose to take a State action despite the fact that the banks are governed by the federal not state authorities and the banks suffered no loss. 

PS.  What are those properties valued at today? 

[pomchop]

23 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

This is an area where I have some experience.

 

Property assessments are usually conducted on the county level. It's a negotiation between the property owner and the assessor. Each is supposed to research the property and offer a valuation. At the end, the Assessor makes a decision, mostly based on sale prices of comparable properties.

 

So, the assessed value of Trump's property is the opinion of the Assessor. Which means that assessed valuation is probably close to the market value.

 

But, no criminal liability for Trump.

 

Maybe no criminal liability  in one tiny instance but certainly a ton of liability on 91 other charges spread over four jurisdictions as well as the judge already found him guilty of fraud in this case regardless of assessor games ....all it takes is ONE felony conviction out of 91 and it will be off to the big house for the conman.

 

  What are the vegas odds that he will skate on all 91? 

 

And that of course is why he is trying to intimidate witnesses and delay and disrupt the entire system because in the end he is a scared little spoiled rich brat that has always gotten his way but not this time and even in his delusional mind he knows that his only way out of the mess that he himself created is to appeal to his ignorant followers to somehow save him.

[Longwood50]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Wow, the bank takes your word in regard to the value of your loan collateral?

Exactly.  I bought a business some years ago.  I had to get an independent certified appraisal done to establish the asset value and cash flow value of the business.

On real estate, take yourself as an example.  Do you get an appraisal on your home as a condition of obtaining a mortgage. 

One way or another 'THE BANKS FOUND THE VALUEATIONS ACCEPTABLE'  It is only a biased politically driven prosecutor is somehow saying oh despite the fact the banks suffered no loss I view the asset values inflated and you committed a crime. 

 

[pomchop]

3 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

And so does this Judge have infallibility? 

Seems to me that 9 justices of the Supreme Court once ruled on Roe v Wade and decades later 9 different judges ruled that the other court was wrong. 

My point remains the same.  The banks did nto file a complaint.  A very biased Attorney General ignored looking at any other company or individual who similarly "may have" inflated asset values to obtain a loan and chose to take a State action despite the fact that the banks are governed by the federal not state authorities and the banks suffered no loss. 

PS.  What are those properties valued at today? 

i guess the AG was biased against all these people as well....trump of course is free to appeal all he wants and no doubt he will do so....but he has a very very high bar to clear as the evidence of systematic fraud for decades is right there in black and white.

The only way the AG would be biased is if he/she did not file charges.

 

A 5 second google blows your entire "whys everybody picking on trump" argument.

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

As I have said, irrespective of whether Trump did inflate assets to secure loans THERE IS NO VICTIM.  The asset values only become relative in the event they are repossessed and are worth less than the amount of the loan. 

Now the government is misdirecting you to look at the asset value at the time of the loan.  WHAT ARE THOSE ASSETS WORTH TODAY. 

You keep focusing on if there is " a crime"  I have said that the government is being weaponized against a political opponent. 

Did the attorney general of New York similarly dig into the records of the banks of OTHER INDIVIDUALS OR COMPANIES to see if they similarly filed false financial information without the bank filing a complaint. 

If they didn't IT IS PATENTLY CLEAR THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE "TARGETED" TRUMP"

The attorney generals office could have scoured the records of all the banks and ask to review all the financial records of all the loans to see who else might have inflated values.  THEY DIDN'T they went solely after Trump singling him out for prosecution. 

In the end irrespective of whether the asset values were inflated or not, the banks were not harmed, and they did not file the complaint.  THAT SIR IS MALICIOUS POLITICAL PROSECUTION.  

Also the banks are typically Federally Chartered that is governed by the Federal Government.  They are insured by the FDIC again a federal organization.  Yet it is a states action not the federal government happening only in a Liberal State by and Extremely Liberal Attorney General  

POLITICAL PROSECUTION.  PROSECUTING A VICTIMLESS CRIME. 

Once again, the banks lost money because Trump secured loans with a low interest rate, due to misrepresenting the value of his assets.

 

Don't you think it is good public policy to stamp out asset valuation fraud?

 

Or do you think that inflating asset valuations is okay with banks?

[placeholder]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:21 PM, Longwood50 said:

This is nothing but the Stalinist regime deliberately taking charges that would not be brought against an absolute similar case.  As a former banker I can tell you that even if the bank lost money, there would not be charges brought against the person for making any false representations.  

Trump like any other borrower tried to portray his assets in the most favorable way.  He would have had to have submitted documentation to support those valuations.  Now suddenly though the bank approved them, and is still being paid, someone after the fact is claiming the valuations were false. 

Sorry, not a single person in all my 34 years in banking with some of the largest financial instituions in the USA did I ever encounter a single person being prosecuted for inflating values on a financial statement.  That would be punctuated where the bank was being repaid.  They would have no damage and hence no cause. 

Anyone who contends that "Alll's well that ends well" when it comes to fraud and banking, has never worked for a bank a day in their life.

[Presnock]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:19 AM, Berkshire said:

"The tangerine traffic cone of treason".....5555 good one.

And to think he just inherited this "empire" from his dad.  This tangerine colored turd has lived with a silver uh make that a gold spoon his entire life, never EVER admitting making a mistake...I read not too long ago that a reporter asked him if he ever apologized  to anyone for something and he replied that he never did anything wrong in his life! and so many worship him...scary.

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

And to think he just inherited this "empire" from his dad.  This tangerine colored turd has lived with a silver uh make that a gold spoon his entire life, never EVER admitting making a mistake...I read not too long ago that a reporter asked him if he ever apologized  to anyone for something and he replied that he never did anything wrong in his life! and so many worship him...scary.

How many have know a few semi rich kids who had everything handed to them on a silver platter their entire lives where parents/grandparents bought them the finest schools, clothes, cars, country clubs, debutante balls, draft deferments, etc and further used their influence (bribes?) to get them special treatment and move to the front of the line.  While i am sure parents may mean well what can often result is a person who thinks his/her "success" is all because they themselves are somehow superior to others who actually had to go out and dig and scrape for their success.

 

Trump is the poster boy for a spoiled rich kid that likely would not have amounted to a hill of beans without daddy giving him the silver spoon.  His greatest "talent" was to turn that into an ability to scam people his entire life by not paying them, lying to get what he wanted and exaggerate his "importance"....he then stumbled into POTUS which he saw running for potus as the greatest free infomercial of media coverage ever.....and in this endeavor he was indeed successful beyond his wildest imagination. Obviously the more outrageous things he said the more attention he got.  Mock the crippled, dis pows and war heros and scoff at silver star families, grab women by the pxxsy , pay off porn stars, rape women, fraud after fraud, lie after lie, encourage violence over and over, and his supporters lapped it all up as it was "entertainment" on a level never before seen by a presidential candidate. Even trump never really thought there were enough gullible people to buy all his BS and actually vote him into office. 

The goal was to get a ton of free publicity to further the brand name worldwide.  For once in his life he found he was really good at something that he created.  He became the best and biggest conman in USA political history. 

 

Now he is hoping those same gullible people will continue to believe he is somehow being "persecuted" and that he has done nothing wrong, in fact just the opposite everything he has ever done or ever will do is perfect.  So lets hope his orange jump suit fits him perfectly and maybe, just maybe, some of his cult members may wake up to the fact that they got conned and the con will continue until they finally open their eyes and look at the FACTS as to his fund raising, his fraud, his criminal acts and say enough.  Admitting that you got conned by the biggest con man is not a disgrace.  It has been going on for centuries.  Some learn and avoid getting conned again.  Others are too proud or ? to ever admit the emperor has no clothes.

[Danderman123]

I you ask a Trump fan if they think Trump really weighs 215 kilograms, they are unable to answer. Something about the wiring in their brains causes a misfire on this question.

 

If you ask them the question, they will tell you they are not interested, or start talking about the weather, anything to change the subject.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Danderman123

[Longwood50]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:45 AM, Danderman123 said:

Once again, the banks lost money because Trump secured loans with a low interest rate, due to misrepresenting the value of his assets.

Now just where did you get the fraudulent statements that Trump got a low interest rate.  How the H would you know what he did or did not receive. 

Again, point being WHY WAS HE TARGETED.

The bank did not complain.  Name 1 just 1 example where the attorney general of New York combed the records of banks seeking out a person who falsified documents given to the bank to secure a loan. 

There are none, zero, naughta.  

Black people often say the police unfairly target them for extra scrutiny.
Here in Thailand foreigners get tickets when Thai's doing the exact same thing dont.

In Trumps case he will be the only person the State of New York ever brings charges against for making false statements to a bank where the bank did not file a complaint. 

That sir is the very definition of Weaponizing Government due to politics and for no other reason. 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Longwood50 said:

Now just where did you get the fraudulent statements that Trump got a low interest rate.  How the H would you know what he did or did not receive. 

Again, point being WHY WAS HE TARGETED.

The bank did not complain.  Name 1 just 1 example where the attorney general of New York combed the records of banks seeking out a person who falsified documents given to the bank to secure a loan. 

There are none, zero, naughta.  

Black people often say the police unfairly target them for extra scrutiny.
Here in Thailand foreigners get tickets when Thai's doing the exact same thing dont.

In Trumps case he will be the only person the State of New York ever brings charges against for making false statements to a bank where the bank did not file a complaint. 

That sir is the very definition of Weaponizing Government due to politics and for no other reason. 

You seem to love asset valuation fraud.

 

Either that, or you think Trump is above the law.