Michael Cohen says he inflated assets to ‘whatever number Trump told us to’

[Danderman123]

As a reminder, in this case, Trump has already been found guilty of fraud. Remember "innocent unless proven guilty"?

 

Now Trump is proven guilty.

[Longwood50]

On 12/3/2023 at 12:44 PM, heybruce said:

Name one person who's former lawyer accused him of financial fraud both in testimony and in a book who was not investigated and charged.

 

As I said, name one person just one who the New York attorney's office has without a complaint of the bank said, I am going to subpoena the records and review let alone prosecute.  

This is clear targeting of a political opponent and using government funds to pummel.  The fact that Cohen may have said something is irrelevant.  

[Longwood50]

On 12/3/2023 at 12:02 PM, candide said:

Come on! Don't pretend you don't know why! You've been told a few dozens of time already!

These are a distinction without a difference.  

There were classified documents in Joe Biden's garage.  Totally unguarded. The law does not give an asterisk for how few they are, how limited the content or the fact they were returned. 

With Hillary, she not only had classified material stored on a personal server in her bathroom.  SHE SHARED ACCESS TO IT.  Both are violations of the law

Come on Don't Pretend you can't see the difference in treatment.  You have had this explained to you dozens of times already. 

It is purely a case of the law is for "thee and not for me"  

 

[stevenl]

21 hours ago, illisdean said:

You seem. convinced by gaslighting about the IRS in your deceptive postings absent any proof of anything you say.

You 're asking posters here for proof of something he and his business have been found guilty of already. 

[Longwood50]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:45 AM, Danderman123 said:

Biden's handful of classified documents were intermingled with many other unclassified documents. When discovered by Biden's lawyers, the classified documents were returned immediately.

 

First off I don't know where you get your "information" that they were intermingled with other unclassified material.  I think in your own mind.  Irrespective does that mean if Trump intermingled his classifed material with other unclassified documents then no crime was committed. 

How about Hillary, was the fact her classified material was intermingled with information on her server about Yoga lessons and wedding plans make potential leaking to our enemies any less significant. 

Does her sharing that information unlike Trump with her aides and computer people any less grevious. 

The fact that documents were or were not returned is IRRELEVANT.  That is like saying if I stole something from a store but then gave it back that no crime was committed.

In terms of security, Trump's documents were in Mar Largo guarded by secret service.  Biden's were in a corvette n his garage totally accessible to others.  Hillary's were in her bathroom with full access by computer people and her aides.  

There is little question that the crimes of Biden and Clinton in terms of potentially exposing classified material were far worse than Trump.  Yet only Trump is being prosecuted.  Why?  Because the establishment protects some and uses its power to punish its opponents. 

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

As I said, name one person just one who the New York attorney's office has without a complaint of the bank said, I am going to subpoena the records and review let alone prosecute.  

This is clear targeting of a political opponent and using government funds to pummel.  The fact that Cohen may have said something is irrelevant.  

I suspect banks often don't report being victims of fraud because of the reputational damage.  However since banks are trusted with other peoples money and guaranteed with taxpayers money, there is no reason why fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted even if the bank kept quiet.

 

How is Trump an opponent of the New York Attorney General?  Is Trump considering running for that job?

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

These are a distinction without a difference.  

There were classified documents in Joe Biden's garage.  Totally unguarded. The law does not give an asterisk for how few they are, how limited the content or the fact they were returned. 

With Hillary, she not only had classified material stored on a personal server in her bathroom.  SHE SHARED ACCESS TO IT.  Both are violations of the law

Come on Don't Pretend you can't see the difference in treatment.  You have had this explained to you dozens of times already. 

It is purely a case of the law is for "thee and not for me"  

 

What law are you referring to?  Certainly not this one, which requires knowingly removing and retaining classified information:

 

(a)

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.   https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

 

 

[Longwood50]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

How is Trump an opponent of the New York Attorney General?  Is Trump considering running for that job?

Oh come on.  You get your supporters to do you work for you

As repeated. Name one just one instance where the Attorney General of NY went out of there way to specifically target just one person who inflated asset values on a loan application.  

That is like saying that they only went after one person to review their tax records

Or one person to see if they ever lied on a building permit

The fact is that the Attorney Generals office is a proscuting attorney not investigative  or regulatory unit.  They went deliberately at ONLY ONE PERSON. PERIOD. 

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

First off I don't know where you get your "information" that they were intermingled with other unclassified material.  I think in your own mind.  Irrespective does that mean if Trump intermingled his classifed material with other unclassified documents then no crime was committed. 

How about Hillary, was the fact her classified material was intermingled with information on her server about Yoga lessons and wedding plans make potential leaking to our enemies any less significant. 

Does her sharing that information unlike Trump with her aides and computer people any less grevious. 

The fact that documents were or were not returned is IRRELEVANT.  That is like saying if I stole something from a store but then gave it back that no crime was committed.

In terms of security, Trump's documents were in Mar Largo guarded by secret service.  Biden's were in a corvette n his garage totally accessible to others.  Hillary's were in her bathroom with full access by computer people and her aides.  

There is little question that the crimes of Biden and Clinton in terms of potentially exposing classified material were far worse than Trump.  Yet only Trump is being prosecuted.  Why?  Because the establishment protects some and uses its power to punish its opponents. 

"The fact that documents were or were not returned is IRRELEVANT."

 

You consider Trump's refusal to return the classified irrelevant?  Wow!

[heybruce]

Just now, Longwood50 said:

Oh come on.  You get your supporters to do you work for you

As repeated. Name one just one instance where the Attorney General of NY went out of there way to specifically target just one person who inflated asset values on a loan application.  

That is like saying that they only went after one person to review their tax records

Or one person to see if they ever lied on a building permit

The fact is that the Attorney Generals office is a proscuting attorney not investigative  or regulatory unit.  They went deliberately at ONLY ONE PERSON. PERIOD. 

As I explained in the part of my post that you edited out, it is not necessary for the direct victim of fraud to complain for fraud to be investigated and prosecuted. 

 

Don't edit out my reply to your "name one person" nonsense then repeat the nonsense in your reply.

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

First off I don't know where you get your "information" that they were intermingled with other unclassified material.  I think in your own mind.  Irrespective does that mean if Trump intermingled his classifed material with other unclassified documents then no crime was committed. 

How about Hillary, was the fact her classified material was intermingled with information on her server about Yoga lessons and wedding plans make potential leaking to our enemies any less significant. 

Does her sharing that information unlike Trump with her aides and computer people any less grevious. 

The fact that documents were or were not returned is IRRELEVANT.  That is like saying if I stole something from a store but then gave it back that no crime was committed.

In terms of security, Trump's documents were in Mar Largo guarded by secret service.  Biden's were in a corvette n his garage totally accessible to others.  Hillary's were in her bathroom with full access by computer people and her aides.  

There is little question that the crimes of Biden and Clinton in terms of potentially exposing classified material were far worse than Trump.  Yet only Trump is being prosecuted.  Why?  Because the establishment protects some and uses its power to punish its opponents. 

Biden had no idea that there were a handful of classified documents in his possession. When they were discovered, they were immediately returned.

 

Trump knew he possessed classified documents. He refused to return them. When given a subpoena, he attempted to hide the documents. He attempted to destroy security camera footage of the attempt to hide the documents.

 

It doesn't get much more incriminating than that.

 

Please don't repeat the lie that Trump declassified the documents in his mind. 

[Longwood50]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

What law are you referring to?  Certainly not this one, which requires knowingly removing and retaining classified information:

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Oh come on.  You get your supporters to do you work for you

As repeated. Name one just one instance where the Attorney General of NY went out of there way to specifically target just one person who inflated asset values on a loan application.  

That is like saying that they only went after one person to review their tax records

Or one person to see if they ever lied on a building permit

The fact is that the Attorney Generals office is a proscuting attorney not investigative  or regulatory unit.  They went deliberately at ONLY ONE PERSON. PERIOD. 

Everyone prosecuted by definition is "one person".

 

 

[Danderman123]

24 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

These are a distinction without a difference.  

There were classified documents in Joe Biden's garage.  Totally unguarded. The law does not give an asterisk for how few they are, how limited the content or the fact they were returned. 

With Hillary, she not only had classified material stored on a personal server in her bathroom.  SHE SHARED ACCESS TO IT.  Both are violations of the law

Come on Don't Pretend you can't see the difference in treatment.  You have had this explained to you dozens of times already. 

It is purely a case of the law is for "thee and not for me"  

 

You seem to believe that such cases have never happened before, and you seem ignorant of the law.

 

If someone takes a classified document by accident, and returns it immediately, there is no legal liability:

 

https://time.com/6249863/presidents-classified-documents-misplaced-history/

[Longwood50]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You consider Trump's refusal to return the classified irrelevant?  Wow!

Trumps legal team was in negotiations on the return of the documents.  There were disagreements over which ones should be returned.  

Now tell me which of the records were under Supoena by Congress and were destroyed like Hillary did with her server, and phones.  

Oh wait Comey said no reasonable prosecutor would bring that case. 


 

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

So what?

 

What law did Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, or Mike Pence violate? 

 

The law requires knowingly mishandling classified.  Only Trump did that.

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Trumps legal team was in negotiations on the return of the documents.  There were disagreements over which ones should be returned.  

Now tell me which of the records were under Supoena by Congress and were destroyed like Hillary did with her server, and phones.  

Oh wait Comey said no reasonable prosecutor would bring that case. 


 

There was nothing to negotiate.  The law is clear, the records did not belong to Trump.  He was asked to return them, didn't return them, and lied about possessing them.  He broke the law.

 

Why didn't Trump do what Joe Biden and Mike Pence did--immediately return the documents?  Why didn't Trump obey the law?

Edited December 5, 2023 by heybruce

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Trumps legal team was in negotiations on the return of the documents.  There were disagreements over which ones should be returned.  

Now tell me which of the records were under Supoena by Congress and were destroyed like Hillary did with her server, and phones.  

Oh wait Comey said no reasonable prosecutor would bring that case. 


 

Trump's attorneys provided a document stating that no further classified documents remained on the premises. Which was a lie.

 

I have to ask you if you really didn't know this. Are the facts I post all new to you, or do you just have a bad memory? If so, why would you post here if you don't know the basic facts?

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump's attorneys provided a document stating that no further classified documents remained on the premises. Which was a lie.

 

I have to ask you if you really didn't know this. Are the facts I post all new to you, or do you just have a bad memory? If so, why would you post here if you don't know the basic facts?

Let's see if longwood now tries to defend Trump by blaming the attorneys. That's not a valid defense. Trump is legally responsible for what his attorneys claim. And, of course, what is the likelihood that an attorney would submit such a document without the approval of his client?

[Danderman123]

58 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Trumps legal team was in negotiations on the return of the documents.  There were disagreements over which ones should be returned.  

 

Donald Trump’s lawyer Christina Bobb was instructed to certify to the justice department that all sensitive government documents stored at his Mar-a-Lago resort subpoenaed by a grand jury had been returned, though she had not herself conducted the search for the records.

 

Your assertion above relates to 2022 discussions.  By 2023, the government issued a subpoena- the discussions were over, and now Trump resorted to lying and hiding the documents.

 

The Trump team  stated that there were no more documents at Mar-A-Lago. Do you believe them?

[candide]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

These are a distinction without a difference.  

There were classified documents in Joe Biden's garage.  Totally unguarded. The law does not give an asterisk for how few they are, how limited the content or the fact they were returned. 

With Hillary, she not only had classified material stored on a personal server in her bathroom.  SHE SHARED ACCESS TO IT.  Both are violations of the law

Come on Don't Pretend you can't see the difference in treatment.  You have had this explained to you dozens of times already. 

It is purely a case of the law is for "thee and not for me"  

 

It seems you are quite creative when writing about laws. I have posted links which are quite clear about relevant laws applied to those cases.

[Longwood50]

6 hours ago, candide said:

It seems you are quite creative when writing about laws. I have posted links which are quite clear about relevant laws applied to those cases.

As said,lets say Trump is guilty.  So is Biden so is Hillary. 

Only a died in the wool Trump hater can look at the disparity in treatment and try and convince themsleves that this was not weaponizing government. 

Note Letticia James ran on a platform of going after Trump. 

Oh 200 lawsuits in New York alone.  I guess Trump was not targeted.  Many New Yorkers have 200 lawsuits against them brought by the government. 

With Hillary she not only kept the classified information she destroyed it. 

Sandy Berger stuffed the classified dcouments in his pants and socks.  I guess that he must have "inadvertently" took those and when he shredded them that was just a mistake.  That is why Trump keeping them inside MarLargo was much worse and should be a felony but Berger got a misdomeanor.  

Can you really delude yourself that much that the government is not being weaponized.  
 

[candide]

41 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

As said,lets say Trump is guilty.  So is Biden so is Hillary. 

Only a died in the wool Trump hater can look at the disparity in treatment and try and convince themsleves that this was not weaponizing government. 

Note Letticia James ran on a platform of going after Trump. 

Oh 200 lawsuits in New York alone.  I guess Trump was not targeted.  Many New Yorkers have 200 lawsuits against them brought by the government. 

With Hillary she not only kept the classified information she destroyed it. 

Sandy Berger stuffed the classified dcouments in his pants and socks.  I guess that he must have "inadvertently" took those and when he shredded them that was just a mistake.  That is why Trump keeping them inside MarLargo was much worse and should be a felony but Berger got a misdomeanor.  

Can you really delude yourself that much that the government is not being weaponized.  
 

Why is it different? It's all explained here. 

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-politics-united-states-government-us-department-of-justice-michael-pence-7e616d65db8a76a078d1ec9268c13a77

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/15/trump-documents-case-biden-clinton-pence.html

 

[Longwood50]

10 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Your assertion above relates to 2022 discussions.  By 2023, the government issued a subpoena- the discussions were over, and now Trump resorted to lying and hiding the documents.

 

The Trump team  stated that there were no more documents at Mar-A-Lago. Do you believe them?

Now why would he want to "hide them"  Of what possible use were classified documents to Trump. 

Onje way or another, you refuse to answer why Hillary would not be equally guilty and prosecuted.  She not only hid them, she broke the law by not using a government server.  She destroyed them while under subpoena and she shared them with here aides.  

[Longwood50]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Why is it different? It's all explained here. 

I want you to explain it.  I can quote articles saying that it is "all different too"  

BS the fact is that Biden had classified documents he was not suppose to have - Fact
They were not just not guarded, they were left in a Corvette - Fact

Hillary had known classified information on her server - Fact
She gave access to the server to her aides and to the person handling her server - fact
Huma Abedin then passed the contents of the server on to her husband Anthony ( carlos danger) Weiner - fact. 
She then destroyed the server which was just like Trump suppose to go the national archives - fact
She took hammers to destroy her phones - fact

Sandy Berger stuffed classifed information in his pants - Fact

Sandy Berger took the documents home and destroyed them - Fact
Sandy Berger was charged with a misdomeaner - Fact

However you think that everyone was treated equally under the law.  

All I can say is that you Trump Haters truly believe the end justifies the means. 

 

[candide]

38 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I want you to explain it.  I can quote articles saying that it is "all different too"  

BS the fact is that Biden had classified documents he was not suppose to have - Fact
They were not just not guarded, they were left in a Corvette - Fact

Hillary had known classified information on her server - Fact
She gave access to the server to her aides and to the person handling her server - fact
Huma Abedin then passed the contents of the server on to her husband Anthony ( carlos danger) Weiner - fact. 
She then destroyed the server which was just like Trump suppose to go the national archives - fact
She took hammers to destroy her phones - fact

Sandy Berger stuffed classifed information in his pants - Fact

Sandy Berger took the documents home and destroyed them - Fact
Sandy Berger was charged with a misdomeaner - Fact

However you think that everyone was treated equally under the law.  

All I can say is that you Trump Haters truly believe the end justifies the means. 

 

I ( and others) explained it to you many times, the reason is 'intent' and 'obstruction'.

 BTW, the decision made by the FBI about Clinton has been investigated (under Trump) by the IG.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Now why would he want to "hide them"  Of what possible use were classified documents to Trump. 

 

I have no insights into Trump's motive for commiting the crime of retention of classified documents. But no one disputes that Trump actively tried to hide classified documents.

 

Are you such a deadender that you think that Trump didn't keep classified documents after he was given a subpoena to return them?

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

I want you to explain it.  I can quote articles saying that it is "all different too"  

BS the fact is that Biden had classified documents he was not suppose to have - Fact
They were not just not guarded, they were left in a Corvette - Fact

Hillary had known classified information on her server - Fact
She gave access to the server to her aides and to the person handling her server - fact
Huma Abedin then passed the contents of the server on to her husband Anthony ( carlos danger) Weiner - fact. 
She then destroyed the server which was just like Trump suppose to go the national archives - fact
She took hammers to destroy her phones - fact

Sandy Berger stuffed classifed information in his pants - Fact

Sandy Berger took the documents home and destroyed them - Fact
Sandy Berger was charged with a misdomeaner - Fact

However you think that everyone was treated equally under the law.  

All I can say is that you Trump Haters truly believe the end justifies the means. 

 

You don't seem to understand that intentionally retaining classified documents is a crime. Sandy Berger was rightfully charged with a crime.

 

Biden and Pence were unaware of having classified documents, and returned them when they were found.

 

Why is this so hard for you to understand? You have been shown the legal statutes, but you continue to post nonsense.

 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Why is it different? It's all explained here. 

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-politics-united-states-government-us-department-of-justice-michael-pence-7e616d65db8a76a078d1ec9268c13a77

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/15/trump-documents-case-biden-clinton-pence.html

 

It seems that it is difficult for this person to assimilate information, preferring instead to believe garbage his internet masters send him.

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You don't seem to understand that intentionally retaining classified documents is a crime. Sandy Berger was rightfully charged with a crime.

 

Biden and Pence were unaware of having classified documents, and returned them when they were found.

 

Why is this so hard for you to understand? You have been shown the legal statutes, but you continue to post nonsense.

 

So taking boxes of classifies documents home every now and then, and just piling them in your garage for years is okay.