Britons living overseas for over 15 years likely to win voting right before next election

[Social Media]

Draft legislation to remove time limit will go before parliament after long battle by the late campaigner Harry Shindler

 

 

Up to 3 million British citizens living overseas for more than 15 years are set to be able to vote in the next general election.

Draft legislation changes on the enfranchisement of the long-term UK diaspora has been published, with the expectation it will become law under the parliamentary process by mid-January.

 

This would give enough time for Britons overseas to register for a vote in the general election if it happens in autumn 2024, as some Conservative sources have hinted.

The move brings to an end an almost 20-year battle by the late Harry Shindler, who challenged the former 15-year limit on voting rights in the high court in 2016. When successive governments failed to deliver on their manifesto promises he brought the case to the European court of justice.

 

Shindler, who died in February aged 101, had argued the UK “was a democracy but not a complete democracy” until all Britons were enfranchised.

“We owe a huge debt to Harry Shindler for his tireless campaigning on this and of course we are happy that the government has finally made good on its promise,” said Jane Golding, co-chair of campaign group British in Europe.

She said the proposed legislation was also the culmination of all the work campaigners in the organisation had undertaken since 2017 “to give Britons who live overseas a voice in the political process”.

Under the process the statutory instrument (draft legislation) must now go through the Commons and the Lords for final scrutiny, a process that usually passes without hitch and takes six to eight weeks.

 

FULL STORY

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

It would be even more of a positive step if they were able to vote for an MP representing expats, an expat constituency.

As French expats already do.

 

[RayC]

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory. No doubt purely coincidental that this proposed piece of legislation is put forward prior to a General Election.

 

In any event, if an individual is out of the country for a significant period of time (imo 5 years: one parliamentary term) then the franchise should be withdrawn. Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

[Emdog]

23 minutes ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory. No doubt purely coincidental that this proposed piece of legislation is put forward prior to a General Election.

 

In any event, if an individual is out of the country for a significant period of time (imo 5 years: one parliamentary term) then the franchise should be withdrawn. Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

Do they still pay taxes? being a Yank, I'm partial to the "no taxation without representation" viewpoint. And let us not forget the old empire boast that "the sun never sets on the British flag"...

"Why should non-residents influence domestic policy...." I assume MPs might also vote on items involving international news. maybe take away votes of Britons who have never been out of the country...

[FruitPudding]

33 minutes ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory.

 

Damn right. Any conservative party is better than liberal loonatics

 

33 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

 

Cos they care what happens to their country.

[JonnyF]

Great news. Been here over 17 years now, will be great to be able to vote again. 

[Gaccha]

A lot of the problems faced by expats were the result of right-wing media viewing expats as an easy target for their readers' envy to deflect them from their immiseration.

 

The expat is seen as having an easy life, as having escaped to paradise. Consequently many reforms were done by the conservative party to appease this feeling.

 

Measures, such as the blocking off of NHS access, the blocking of contributing to a state pension, the limits of any rises to the pension, and the disenfranchisement, were natural consequences of this mindset. It annoys me that I cannot create a state pension, in contrast to French or German expats.

 

It is the deepest irony that many of the expats in Thailand are the Daily Mail's core fanbase.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory. No doubt purely coincidental that this proposed piece of legislation is put forward prior to a General Election.

 

Well, expats are generally mature and experienced individuals who have worked hard most of their life so it's no surprise they would vote Conservative ahead of a Labour government. 

 

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

In any event, if an individual is out of the country for a significant period of time (imo 5 years: one parliamentary term) then the franchise should be withdrawn. Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

 

Why? I'm British born and bred. Still have a British passport. I still pay tax there, have property there, have family there. I frequently hire people there. Send money there. Keep money there. Why shouldn't I vote just because I choose to live abroad most of the year?

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It would be even more of a positive step if they were able to vote for an MP representing expats, an expat constituency.

As French expats already do.

 

Agreed - and with over 3 million expats, we should have quite a few MPs representing us.

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Great news. Been here over 17 years now, will be great to be able to vote again. 

 

But:

 

- Will voting for this cohort be compulsory?

 

- What percentage of UK folks living abroad long term / very long term with no desire to ever return to the UK will actually cast a vote?

My guess is about 1%.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory.

A bit of an assumption.

 

Thailand attracts a very different selection of British expats than might be found in other parts of the world.

 

I’d be very surprised if many British expats in Thailand would bother voting even if they had the franchise extended to them.

 

Though if a political party started making promises extend the pension triple lock that might wake a few up long enough to vote.

 

 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

But:

 

- Will voting for this cohort be compulsory?

 

No. Why would it be? It's not compulsory for the rest of the population. 

 

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

- What percentage of UK folks living abroad long term / very long term with no desire to ever return to the UK will actually cast a vote?

My guess is about 1%.

 

Not the point. They should be allowed to.

 

I think it would be quite a high %. I have no intention of returning to live there but I would definitely vote since the result of elections still affects me in terms of taxation, my properties and investments etc. For example, this green nonsense about having to replace boilers with heat pumps would cost me a fortune on my rented properties. I deserve to have a say on that and would vote for the party that deferred such nonsense as long as possible.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory. No doubt purely coincidental that this proposed piece of legislation is put forward prior to a General Election.

 

In any event, if an individual is out of the country for a significant period of time (imo 5 years: one parliamentary term) then the franchise should be withdrawn. Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

I can understand that.

 

Can you explain why the government has been willing to stop me voting, yet is always available to tax my pensions, yet has since 1948 refused consistently to increase my state pension in line with UK pensioners?

 

If you can remember, America seceded from the UK simply because they demanded representation from the UK.

 

The sad bit is, that if I lived in the USA, my state pension would be increased every year, but if I lived in Canada it would be frozen.

 

NO taxation without representation.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

The majority of ex-pats are more likely to vote Tory. No doubt purely coincidental that this proposed piece of legislation is put forward prior to a General Election.

 

In any event, if an individual is out of the country for a significant period of time (imo 5 years: one parliamentary term) then the franchise should be withdrawn. Why should non-residents influence domestic policy that directly affect the day-to-day welfare of residents?

Voting for overseas voters has been kicking around for a number of years now a number of private members bills have been submitted but never get adopted 

Generally Conservative MP's support Overseas voting for all and Labour MP's are against

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8223/CBP-8223.pdf

 

[FruitPudding]

58 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

It annoys me that I cannot create a state pension, in contrast to French or German expats.

 

 

British expats can make national insurance contributions for the state pension 

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

Do they still pay taxes? being a Yank, I'm partial to the "no taxation without representation" viewpoint.

 

Agreed. In general, I believe that an individual should be taxed, and be able to vote in the country, in which they reside.

 

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

And let us not forget the old empire boast that "the sun never sets on the British flag"...

 

I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that Brits in the UK should be able to vote in, say, an Indian election?

 

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

"Why should non-residents influence domestic policy...." I assume MPs might also vote on items involving international news. maybe take away votes of Britons who have never been out of the country...

 

70% of Brits vote according to party allegiance. Of the remainder, imo it is domestic issues, notably tax and the NHS, which decide how they will cast their vote.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Damn right. Any conservative party is better than liberal loonatics

 

Of course. The last 13 years under Tory leadership has gone so well.

 

2 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Cos they care what happens to their country.

 

The obvious irresistible retort is that if they care that much then why don't they return there?

 

I am a Brit who has also lived in Belgium and Thailand. I care about what happens to those latter two countries as well as the UK. However, as a non-resident I don't expect a say in how they run the country.

[FruitPudding]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

The obvious irresistible retort is that if they care that much then why don't they return there?

 

Cos it's a free world and we have choices.

 

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I am a Brit who has also lived in Belgium and Thailand. I care about what happens to those latter two countries as well as the UK. However, as a non-resident I don't expect a say in how they run the country.

 

Thailand is not your country. It belongs to Thais. 

 

You are a guest and guests cannot vote.

 

This is not a logical argument for British expats not being allowed to vote. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Well, expats are generally mature and experienced individuals who have worked hard most of their life so it's no surprise they would vote Conservative ahead of a Labour government. 

 

That maturity meaning that, generally speaking, they favour low-taxation without having to worry about the consequences of lowing public spending on services. 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why? I'm British born and bred. Still have a British passport. I still pay tax there, have property there, have family there. I frequently hire people there. Send money there. Keep money there. Why shouldn't I vote just because I choose to live abroad most of the year?

 

Why should being born in the UK, having family and owning property there entitle you to a vote whilst living overseas? Money flows around the world so that is completely irrelevant. It is probably more accurate to say that you pay some tax in the UK, as do foreign nationals on their UK assets. Should they also get a vote in UK elections?

 

Having said all that, you answered your own question: Imo you shouldn't get a vote in UK elections because you have chosen to live abroad.

[RayC]

7 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Cos it's a free world and we have choices.

 

 

Thailand is not your country. It belongs to Thais. 

 

You are a guest and guests cannot vote.

 

This is not a logical argument for British expats not being allowed to vote. 

 

I lived in Thailand for +/-7 years. (I would have remained but for the Asian crisis in 1997). I then lived in Belgium for 20 years. I was not a guest in either country; I - together with my family - were residents of those countries. IMO I should have been entitled to a vote in those countries' elections.

 

The arguments put forward by expats in favour of their entitlement to vote seem to rest largely on the fact that some pay some UK tax. It's an argument but imo not a particularly convincing one. As I pointed out previously, non-Brits, who are not resident in the UK, pay tax on their UK assets to the UK government. Should they also get a vote?

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

No. Why would it be? It's not compulsory for the rest of the population. 

 

 

Not the point. They should be allowed to.

 

I think it would be quite a high %. I have no intention of returning to live there but I would definitely vote since the result of elections still affects me in terms of taxation, my properties and investments etc. For example, this green nonsense about having to replace boilers with heat pumps would cost me a fortune on my rented properties. I deserve to have a say on that and would vote for the party that deferred such nonsense as long as possible.

 

Around 2/3rds of government spending is on public services such as the NHS, education and policing.

 

As someone who has no intention of returning to the UK, why should you have a say in how that money is allocated?

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A bit of an assumption.

 

Thailand attracts a very different selection of British expats than might be found in other parts of the world.

 

I’d be very surprised if many British expats in Thailand would bother voting even if they had the franchise extended to them.

 

Though if a political party started making promises extend the pension triple lock that might wake a few up long enough to vote.

 

 

 

How many expats can be bothered to vote is anyone's guess, however, I'd suggest that my assumption isn't without foundation.

 

5.5m Brits live abroad. 1m are over 65. Based on previous elections, Tory voters outnumber Labour supporters 2-1 in this age group. There has also been a substantial majority for the Tories for both UK and expat voters in the 50 - 64 age group. The country with the most working Brits is now the US. More assumptions but I'd suggest that these individuals are mostly working in financial services and are more likely to be economically conservative, and hence natural Tory voters: Boris' Brexit blunders have probably lost the Tories support amongst the EU expat brigade but, overall I'd suggest that the Brit expat community would lean towards the Tories.

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It would be even more of a positive step if they were able to vote for an MP representing expats, an expat constituency.

As French expats already do.

 

 

Now there's a job for Boris🤔

[Chomper Higgot]

This raises a dilemma for Brits retired in Thailand who don’t, perhaps for reasons relating to pension increases, wish to let the Government know where they are.

 

Is their vote worth the risk of losing pension increases?

 

Unpaid fines and taxes might be other issues.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[VocalNeal]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This raises a dilemma for Brits retired in Thailand who don’t, perhaps for reasons relating to pension increases, wish to let the Government know where they are.

 

No dilemna. Just don't heed anything.🤔

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Around 2/3rds of government spending is on public services such as the NHS, education and policing.

 

As someone who has no intention of returning to the UK, why should you have a say in how that money is allocated?

 

Why? Because the taxes I pay in the UK help fund the NHS, education and policing. I should have a say how my money is spent.

 

Like a member of the gym who never goes, I am essentially paying for it but not using it. Unlike many voters who use the services but don't pay for it. 

 

I would argue I am more entitled to the vote than some lazy dosser living in the uk on benefits, even though I live in Thailand. 

 

He who pays, chooses so to speak. I would happily give up my vote if they make me tax exempt. But they would never do that since through my hard work I am a giver not a taker. They need people like me to pay for the lazy dossers that vote Labour. 

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Great news.  I've lived in Thailand since 2005, but have always made sure I voted in national and local elections.  Since I hit the 15-year cut off it's annoying to be unable to, so if it changes in time for me to help Keir Starmer come to power and to get rid of this abysmal government, I'll be delighted.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why? Because the taxes I pay in the UK help fund the NHS, education and policing. I should have a say how my money is spent.

 

Like a member of the gym who never goes, I am essentially paying for it but not using it. Unlike many voters who use the services but don't pay for it. 

 

I would argue I am more entitled to the vote than some lazy dosser living in the uk on benefits, even though I live in Thailand. 

 

He who pays, chooses so to speak. I would happily give up my vote if they make me tax exempt. But they would never do that since through my hard work I am a giver not a taker. They need people like me to pay for the lazy dossers that vote Labour. 

 

 

I suspect you’ve received far more than your understand or indeed are willing to accept.

 

You would not be the first expat to depart back to the warm bosom of the the NHS and the Welfare State when life in Thailand bites harder then expected.

 

Accept the truth of it, your life here is underwritten by the open invite to run back to Nanny should ever needs must.

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why? Because the taxes I pay in the UK help fund the NHS, education and policing. I should have a say how my money is spent.

 

Like a member of the gym who never goes, I am essentially paying for it but not using it. Unlike many voters who use the services but don't pay for it. 

 

I would argue I am more entitled to the vote than some lazy dosser living in the uk on benefits, even though I live in Thailand. 

 

He who pays, chooses so to speak. I would happily give up my vote if they make me tax exempt. But they would never do that since through my hard work I am a giver not a taker. They need people like me to pay for the lazy dossers that vote Labour. 

 

 

So it's the amount of tax that an individual pays that counts? By that line of argument, votes should be weighed according to an individual's tax liability.

 

Maybe you can find out the names of the lazy dossers that you are supporting, so that they can thank you for your altruistic generosity.

[Emdog]

20 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Agreed. In general, I believe that an individual should be taxed, and be able to vote in the country, in which they reside.

 

 

I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that Brits in the UK should be able to vote in, say, an Indian election?

 

 

70% of Brits vote according to party allegiance. Of the remainder, imo it is domestic issues, notably tax and the NHS, which decide how they will cast their vote.

Regarding "sun never sets", was referring  to very long history of Britain and it's colonies all over the world that were manned by a large number of British citizens (I reckon); whom I assume would have wanted to vote, and  I wonder why that whole issue of absentee voting wasn't solved at least a century ago (dang, long sentence!)