Obamacare saves the day

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Or is you did not want to wait you could just go down and get in line with the illegal aliens and get free treatment. 

Where is this line you keep referring to?  In your head?

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Borders aren't open, few people want open borders, the topic is not about borders, and you are desperately trying to deflect.

Define open ...

"According to data from U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, there have been 1,973,092 encounters at the U.S.-Mexico border so far in 2023. That number was 1,947,310 at the same point in 2022, 1,332,845 at the same point in 2021 and 350,400 at the same point in 2020."

source

Up to 5.6X as many since Biden was elected.  On topic;  yes, that surely has an impact of ACA hospitals and the tax payer IMHO

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Here's an article about FDA approval for weight loss of an Eli Lilly pharmaceutical, terzepatide. Some insurance companies are dropping coverage of these weight loss drugs because of the high expense. Which makes perfect economic sense. Still, Eli Lilly expects to make billions from the drug. I'm not criticizing the company. That's how the free market works. The question is, is this wholesale application of the free market to health care sensible? As a thought experiment consider this: what if the company expects to realize a total profit of 50 billion over the lifetime of the drug? Now it would make no sense for another company to offer that sum or even close to it. But what if the Federal Government did and then offered it virtually for free? Would  the purchase cost repay itself many times over with the savings from lower rates of heart disease, type 2 diabetes, cancers...etc? This pinpoints the problem with the free market approach vs the public health approach to health care. What makes no economic sense in a free market makes huge sense when viewed from a public health perspective.

If the Federal government (using taxpayer money) decided to buy a drug from a particular pharmaceutical company and gives it out free, what incentive is there for a competing company to develop a better drug? 

 

If the government is giving away free Fords, what happens to Chevy?

 

Incidentally, the idea that the obesity epidemic is going to be solved with a new weight loss drug may be a bit naive. 

 

The US has nothing close to "free market" health care. The only areas of medicine that are somewhat "free market" are elective surgeries and procedures, and in these areas, the quality is arguably the best in the world, and the cost are very competitive. 

 

I did not see an article in your post, but it would add noting to the discussion either way. 

 

 

[impulse]

15 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No, they can't take your home or your car. People with a lot to lose, buy insurance. But the ACA made that much more difficult and expensive. 

 

Good catch...  True, but is it true in all states, or just the ones with homestead laws?  It is true in Texas.

[impulse]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Borders aren't open, few people want open borders, the topic is not about borders, and you are desperately trying to deflect.

 

My God.  Has anyone told these 5,000 migrants that the border's not open?

 

TAPACHULA, Mexico (AP) — About 5,000 migrants from Central America, Venezuela, Cuba and Haiti set out on foot from Mexico’s southern border Monday, walking north toward the U.S.

 

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-migrant-caravan-us-border-tapachula-visas-e2bd75d87981508b494fe691b6890d06

Edited November 9, 2023 by impulse

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Good catch...  True, but is it true in all states, or just the ones with homestead laws?  It is true in Texas.

I think it's true everywhere in the US, but you can always just give them a phony name. Worked for me for the twenty years after I left home until I got a job with heath insurance. Great insurance that was not so great after the ACA. 

[heybruce]

22 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Define open ...

"According to data from U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, there have been 1,973,092 encounters at the U.S.-Mexico border so far in 2023. That number was 1,947,310 at the same point in 2022, 1,332,845 at the same point in 2021 and 350,400 at the same point in 2020."

source

Up to 5.6X as many since Biden was elected.  On topic;  yes, that surely has an impact of ACA hospitals and the tax payer IMHO

The border is open to those who meet legal requirements for entry.  Others can attempt to cross illegally, but face consequences if caught.  That makes the border open in the same way as every secure facility I've worked in.

 

I case you didn't notice, border crossing all over the world were down significantly during the Covid pandemic.  Interestingly, border encounters during the Obama years were lower on average than during the Trump years.  Perhaps we should bring back the Obama policies.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/

 

"that surely has an impact shows that you are speculating.  While you're at it try speculating on the number of jobs filled by these immigrants, taxes paid, money spent, new jobs created, etc.  Immigration grows an economy.

 

Not try to get back on topic.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

The border is open to those who meet legal requirements for entry.  Others can attempt to cross illegally, but face consequences if caught.  That makes the border open in the same way as every secure facility I've worked in.

 

I case you didn't notice, border crossing all over the world were down significantly during the Covid pandemic.  Interestingly, border encounters during the Obama years were lower on average than during the Trump years.  Perhaps we should bring back the Obama policies.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/

 

"that surely has an impact shows that you are speculating.  While you're at it try speculating on the number of jobs filled by these immigrants, taxes paid, money spent, new jobs created, etc.  Immigration grows an economy.

 

Not try to get back on topic.

Yes, the topic is how great Obamacare is, anything pointing out that maybe it's not that great is off-topic. 

[heybruce]

20 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, the topic is how great Obamacare is, anything pointing out that maybe it's not that great is off-topic. 

Agreed.  Now stop trying to make it about immigration.

[GinBoy2]

So back to ACA...

 

When we first moved back to the US, and before we both got jobs, I enrolled us both in a health insurance policy through the ACA marketplace.

 

Wasn't the greatest, high deductibles, but we could both get a Doctor visit for a $30 copay and it was a safety net should something bad happen.

 

As soon as we got jobs, dumped it for employer benefits.

 

But it allowed us that piece of mind while we were getting settled. 

 

So no complaints from me, works as it should

[tjintx]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:00 AM, placeholder said:

Certainly people who couldn't afford health insurance before should be grateful to the Democrats.

I just saw that that evil Republican Elizabeth Warren is not grateful.    Well, she claims that wonderful Obamacare raised costs, can you imagine.    Wait, what, she is a Democrat???

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/elizabeth-warren-has-an-obamacare-epiphany/ar-AA1kunTI

[placeholder]

38 minutes ago, tjintx said:

I just saw that that evil Republican Elizabeth Warren is not grateful.    Well, she claims that wonderful Obamacare raised costs, can you imagine.    Wait, what, she is a Democrat???

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/elizabeth-warren-has-an-obamacare-epiphany/ar-AA1kunTI

It's a problem that's easily fixable. Especially, if, as the WSJ editorial claims, there is bipartisan support for legislative change. And given that it's a WSJ editorial, they simply don't address the question of whether total medical costs are higher or lower than they would have been were there no Obamacare. Also useful to point out is that Republicans have succeeded for years in not allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices. In the first 2 years of the Biden administration, legislation was passed that allowed for a limited scope for negotiation. But that hasn't taken effect yet.

[placeholder]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:49 PM, GinBoy2 said:

So back to ACA...

 

When we first moved back to the US, and before we both got jobs, I enrolled us both in a health insurance policy through the ACA marketplace.

 

Wasn't the greatest, high deductibles, but we could both get a Doctor visit for a $30 copay and it was a safety net should something bad happen.

 

As soon as we got jobs, dumped it for employer benefits.

 

But it allowed us that piece of mind while we were getting settled. 

 

So no complaints from me, works as it should

I don't know how long ago you used Obamacare, but the Biden administration greatly increased subsidies not just for lower income earners but middle-class people as well. It was entirely financed by raising taxes on wealthier Americans.

[placeholder]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:02 AM, KhunLA said:

Define open ...

"According to data from U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, there have been 1,973,092 encounters at the U.S.-Mexico border so far in 2023. That number was 1,947,310 at the same point in 2022, 1,332,845 at the same point in 2021 and 350,400 at the same point in 2020."

source

Up to 5.6X as many since Biden was elected.  On topic;  yes, that surely has an impact of ACA hospitals and the tax payer IMHO

It has an impact on the medical system in general. But what's it got to do with Obamacare specifically?

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't know how long ago you used Obamacare, but the Biden administration greatly increased subsidies not just for lower income earners but middle-class people as well. It was entirely financed by raising taxes on wealthier Americans.

This just in... Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., "is at long last acknowledging that ObamaCare has increased healthcare prices" and created other unintentional consequences, the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote Friday.  More to follow...

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., "is at long last acknowledging that ObamaCare has increased healthcare prices" and created other unintentional consequences, the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote Friday.  More to follow...

A few years back, the reporting side of the Wall Street Journal sent an open letter to the editorial side that asked them to please stop making things up. The editorial you cited is more of the same. Elizabeth Warren never said that Obamacare caused the insurance companies to pull this ploy. What she lamented was the fact that it couldn't. Now maybe you believe that a huge profitable opportunity like this would have been overlooked by insurance companies, if there was no Obamacare. I don't think so. Especially given the trend towards consolidation in the healthcare industry. It's eat or be eaten.

[Skipalongcassidy]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

A few years back, the reporting side of the Wall Street Journal sent an open letter to the editorial side that asked them to please stop making things up. The editorial you cited is more of the same. Elizabeth Warren never said that Obamacare caused the insurance companies to pull this ploy. What she lamented was the fact that it couldn't. Now maybe you believe that a huge profitable opportunity like this would have been overlooked by insurance companies, if there was no Obamacare. I don't think so. Especially given the trend towards consolidation in the healthcare industry. It's eat or be eaten.

So now today's Wall Street Journal is wrong because it doesn't fit your narrative... This is a current story... not from a few years back... bottom line... obamacare has increased healthcare cost to Americans that actually pay their way.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

So now today's Wall Street Journal is wrong because it doesn't fit your narrative... This is a current story... not from a few years back... bottom line... obamacare has increased healthcare cost to Americans that actually pay their way.

Even if Obamacare were responsible for this dodge, prescription drugs were only 1 part of the whole health care picture. Here's a graph showing how health expenditures have increased over time. You'll note that despite the fact that a lot more Americans were being covered both by insurance and Medicaid. health care expenditures didn't change their trajectory after Obamacare was instituted.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total national health expenditures as a percent of Gross Domestic Product, 1970-2021

 

As for premiums being higher, given that Obamacare was created in large part to give insurance to those with preexisting conditions, that was inevitable. However, there are subsidies available and these have been greatly increased under the Biden administration. And keep in mind that most Americans get their health insurance either from Medicare of employer health plans.

[placeholder]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:50 PM, Yellowtail said:

At least for non-tax paying middle class Americans. 

 

 

You got any evidence to support that? Stop making things up.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., "is at long last acknowledging that ObamaCare has increased healthcare prices" and created other unintentional consequences, the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote Friday.  More to follow...

You put your faith in editorials (opinions).  I have greater faith in credible news based on actual analysis:

 

"In America the Affordable Care Act (aca)—which was introduced in 2010, at about the time costs tailed off—tightened up the ways in which the government reimburses companies that provide treatment. The aca also made it more difficult for doctors to prescribe unnecessary treatments (seven expensive scans, perhaps, instead of one cheap one) in order to make more money."  https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/10/26/how-health-care-costs-stopped-rising

Edited November 28, 2023 by heybruce

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

You got any evidence to support that? Stop making things up.

Stop denying everything... medicaid that you are always lauding is not designed for people who pay their way in society is just one example.

[Skipalongcassidy]

14 hours ago, heybruce said:

You put your faith in editorials (opinions).  I have greater faith in credible news based on actual analysis:

 

"In America the Affordable Care Act (aca)—which was introduced in 2010, at about the time costs tailed off—tightened up the ways in which the government reimburses companies that provide treatment. The aca also made it more difficult for doctors to prescribe unnecessary treatments (seven expensive scans, perhaps, instead of one cheap one) in order to make more money."  https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/10/26/how-health-care-costs-stopped-rising

Two things... first... your link is not valid as it requires a subscription to read it... Second... tell the millions of Americans your story line who are paying more for their health insurance under obamercare than they were before... this has nothing to do with the cost of care and everything to do with that cost now being paid by individuals rather than the insurance companies for that care.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Two things... first... your link is not valid as it requires a subscription to read it... Second... tell the millions of Americans your story line who are paying more for their health insurance under obamercare than they were before... this has nothing to do with the cost of care and everything to do with that cost now being paid by individuals rather than the insurance companies for that care.

How much are they paying?  Health care cost in the US is close to 20% of GDP.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/184968/us-health-expenditure-as-percent-of-gdp-since-1960/.  Logically one would expect the average American to pay close to 20% of their income for full coverage insurance. 

 

That's a ridiculous amount, but the US has ridiculously expensive health care.  The obvious solution is to adopt the kind of universal health care other wealthy nations have.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Two things... first... your link is not valid as it requires a subscription to read it... Second... tell the millions of Americans your story line who are paying more for their health insurance under obamercare than they were before... this has nothing to do with the cost of care and everything to do with that cost now being paid by individuals rather than the insurance companies for that care.

Sorry about the link. Here is it accessible via archive.today.

https://archive.ph/JCgaG

 

But I do want to thank you for providing the link to support your contention that "millions of Americans""who are paying more for their health insurance under obamercare than they were before." Oh...wait a minute...you didn't even provide one.

If you do provide a link, I'll show you what B.S.it turns out to be.

Edited November 29, 2023 by placeholder

[KhunLA]

Obamacare ... 

 

Written by lobbyist for the insurance companies & big pharma.   Thankfully Trumps administration changed a few of those things;

...  No fine/tax for not buying into ACA

... now allowed to know the true price of your med.  Yea, that's actually true, what a scam

 

Mind boggling, and bill introduce by Rep, not the dems:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/903897034680252

 

check ... true

 

Thank You Reps

 

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Obamacare ... 

 

Written by lobbyist for the insurance companies & big pharma.   Thankfully Trumps administration changed a few of those things;

...  No fine/tax for not buying into ACA

... now allowed to know the true price of your med.  Yea, that's actually true, what a scam

 

Mind boggling, and bill introduce by Rep, not the dems:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/903897034680252

 

check ... true

 

Thank You Reps

 

The reason for the mandatory membership in Obamacare is the same reason that you don't get to choose to opt out of an employer health insurance program. It was felt that the young and healthy would eschew signing up until they got older and more ill. It's an issue called community rating. As it turns out, Obamacare is so highly desired that record numbers are now enrolled in it.

 

As for not being allowed to know the true cost of one's medication, what has that got to do with Obamacare? What's more, it's true it was sponsored by Senator Collins of Maine, one of the few moderate Republicans left in the Senate. That's because at the time the Senate was controlled by the Republicans.  What's also true is that all except 2 senators supported the bill. By the way, those 2 senators  who voted against Collins' bill were Mike Lee of Utah and Rand Paul of Kentucky, 2 of the most conservative senators.

 

You may recall that Susan Collins was one of the 3  Republican Senators who torpedoed Trump's attempt to cancel Obamacare. You want to give her a pat on the back for that, too?

[KhunLA]

39 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Obamacare is so highly desired that record numbers are now enrolled in it.

You just love to spin things.   Record numbers enrolled, yes .... in Medicaid option, for those that can't afford private insurance anymore.  Since we all know when something is mandatory, the price goes up, and the value (coverage) down.

 

ACA does have a few good things in it:

... showed so many people qualify for Medicaid that didn't know, hence the 'high enrollment to ACA' which they didn't need to get Medicaid.

... supposedly ins. co. can't cancel you, supposedly, but false, they still will

... can't deny you for pre existing ... but will charge you appropriately as a higher risk

 

Only the last one was needed, the first 2, weren't and ACA is simply a money maker for the writers of.

 

Try to spin all you want, only ignorant folks will fall for the BS  I've been on the receiving end of the bad ins co. and why I'd never pay for a policy.

[placeholder]

Just now, KhunLA said:

You just love to spin things.   Record numbers enrolled, yes .... in Medicaid, for those that can't afford private insurance anymore.  Since we all know when something is mandatory, the price goes up, and the value (coverage) down.

 

ACA does have a few good things in it:

... showed so many people qualify for Medicaid that didn't know, hence the 'high enrollment to ACA'

... supposedly ins. co. can't cancel you, supposedly, but false, they still will

... can't deny you for pre existing ... but will charge you appropriately as a higher risk

 

Only the last one was needed, the first 2, weren't and ACA is simply a money maker for the writers of.

 

Try to spin all you want, only ignorant folks will fall for the BS  I've been on the receiving end of the bad ins co. and why I'd never pay for a policy.

Let's start out with this:

"supposedly ins. co. can't cancel you, supposedly, but false, they still will"

Got any actual evidence to support that claim?

 

 

[placeholder]

59 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You just love to spin things.   Record numbers enrolled, yes .... in Medicaid, for those that can't afford private insurance anymore.  Since we all know when something is mandatory, the price goes up, and the value (coverage) down.

Wrong again:

"A record 16.3 million people flocked to the Affordable Care Act exchanges for 2023 coverage, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said Wednesday...

Sign-ups on the federal exchange, healthcare.gov, have skyrocketed nearly 50% since the Biden administration took office in 2021, thanks in large part to enhanced federal premium subsidies and increased outreach efforts."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/25/politics/aca-enrollment-2023/index.html#:~:text=Sign-ups for ACA coverage have soared under President Joe Biden.&text=A record 16.3 million people,and Medicaid Services said Wednesday.

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Let's start out with this:

"supposedly ins. co. can't cancel you, supposedly, but false, they still will"

Got any actual evidence to support that claim?

As a matter of fact I do, and posted before, about a good friend of mine got cancelled when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

 

Besides the 'mind F' or being diagnosed, and then 'cancelled', it actually turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to him.

 

A wrong diagnosis, and he'll be around for a long time, to the dismay of the insurance co.  He already turned down a $3M settlement 

 

Seems to happen so much, they now tell how to appeal

 

Supposedly can't cancel, but, can not renew, or offer you their 'new rate' to cover.  Sounds like you just got cancelled to me.  ouch, thanks for nothing

 

If you don't believe the govt sites, maybe you believe MSM