Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand and extends reporting obligations

[Man Mart]

2 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

 

I placed the laugh emoticon - I have trouble imagining how they will ever figure that out!

The tax authorities of different countries actually talk to each other!

[Ralf001]

20 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

 

 

 

Lastly, there are several generous deductions available to reduce taxable income, a personal allowance of 60k baht is available to everyone plus for over age 65 years, an extra 190k deduction exists. Further deductions exist for wife, children, life insurance, medical insurance and so on. After all that, the first 150k of income is zero rated for everyone. These things mean that the average expat pensioner must earn over 400k baht, before they begin to pay tax at 5%.

 

Personal income tax on money earnt in Thailand ?

[Bobthegimp]

2 minutes ago, bob smith said:

my suitcase is already packed!.

 

I can leave at a moments notice. 

 

Leave, but to where? 

 

Didn't we have some big global event around 3 years ago when the governments of the world, despite all of the language and cultural barriers, reached the same conclusions and took the exact same measures in almost perfect lockstep?  Looks like we're getting another taste of it. 

 

Colombia and Thailand are very disparate cultures on opposite sides of the world, yet are adopting the same tax measures as Western nations.  Let me know if you find a bolt hole to escape this globalist madness and the first drinking binge is on me. 

[freeworld]

19 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

If we have to pay tax here then what benefits do we get? None I get it, 

Nope, you get to use govt subsidised, implemeted and maintained services and infrastructure, access to police, the courts, local authorities and best of all you get to interact regularly with the immigration dept.

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

It doesn't matter how much you earn overseas, what matters is the amount that is imported into Thailand. Overseas earnings are not taxable in Thailand, as long as they are not imported.

I imagine the nominal tax rate is derived from total income and then applied to the imported amount, so again if you high a high enough income you could be liable for some % and that would be taxed on all imported money, like a premium on cost of living.

 

Otherwise the figure you stated of 150,000 is less than most people import anyways, so who cares?

[Thaindrew]

1 hour ago, SGD said:

You are all missing the point.

Currently, Thailand considers income earned over 12 months ago as capital and capital is not taxed.

Thus, if you can earn income tax free at source and then spend income earned 13 months ago, you legally have no tax to pay.

However, if Thailand changes their interpretation of capital or requires income earned anywhere to be taxed in the year it is earned, you would technically have to declare your income and suffer Thai taxation.

In reality, if you are paid into Hong Kong and transfer capital, no-one is ever going to ask you where the money came from because it is none of their business.

That is precisely the loophole they plan to close (they are now calling it a loophole wheras before it was an exception)

 

That is my situation have a company in HK so earn a salary there which is untaxed, living pretty much full time in Thailand on an “elite” visa.

 

Tax on transfers to Thailand maybe is fair enough, tax on global income and I would limit my time here to 180 days. It’s not ideal when people have purchased property here and then have to change their plans due to a simple reinterpretation 

[renaissanc]

4 hours ago, Gknrd said:

It will go into effect , it won't matter if it is challenged in court or not. 

Nightmare to be  enforced or not, it does not matter. 

My guess is they will have authorized tax officials that you will have to get signed off on before you go to immigration for an extension of your visa.

 

I don't think that Immigration will add the need to provide tax documents  because the Officials are already overworked. The pile of documents we provide already takes 50 minutes to process.  

 

[UKresonant]

I wonder what their calculations considered

a. Loss of individuals that relied on the no tax on income remittance from previous years x how many? (zero VAT spend unless on a tourist visit maybe)

b. Loss of VAT spend for half the year (after>179 days) x how many?

c. Deter significant numbers of tax resident folk, to restrict what is brought into Thailand, to reduce spend and VAT receipts, buy less or smaller material items/ property, x how many x proportion. 

d. Slight GDP impact for a. b, & c.

e. Increase in the overhead cost within the RD.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Personal income tax on money earnt in Thailand ?

Earned in Thailand or qualifying income imported into Thailand, from overseas, whilst you were tax resident in Thailand.

[Ralf001]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Earned in Thailand or qualifying income imported into Thailand, from overseas, whilst you were tax resident in Thailand.

 

Right, ok.

People being taxed should also qualify for SS then !!

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I imagine the nominal tax rate is derived from total income and then applied to the imported amount, so again if you high a high enough income you could be liable for some % and that would be taxed on all imported money, like a premium on cost of living.

 

Otherwise the figure you stated of 150,000 is less than most people import anyways, so who cares?

I wrote, 400k, not 150k.

[StayinThailand2much]

3 minutes ago, Bobthegimp said:

Let me know if you find a bolt hole to escape this globalist madness and the first drinking binge is on me. 

 

As someone mentioned, not spending more than 179 days a year in any one country. (There are pros and cons, of course.)

[Thaindrew]

2 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

I wonder what their calculations considered

a. Loss of individuals that relied on the no tax on income remittance from previous years x how many? (zero VAT spend unless on a tourist visit maybe)

b. Loss of VAT spend for half the year (after>179 days) x how many?

c. Deter significant numbers of tax resident folk, to restrict what is brought into Thailand, to reduce spend and VAT receipts, buy less or smaller material items/ property, x how many x proportion. 

d. Slight GDP impact for a. b, & c.

e. Increase in the overhead cost within the RD.

 

 

 

 

Big reduction in property values if “tax” is charged on money imported to pay for it.

 

lots of potential impacts

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Right, ok.

People being taxed should also qualify for SS then !!

Only if you have a job in Thailand. Eligibility for Thai SSc is based on employment in Thailand, not earnings. Thai person who earns income by playing the stock market for example and pays tax, isn't eligible to join SSc. 

[freeworld]

1 minute ago, Thaindrew said:

Big reduction in property values if “tax” is charged on money imported to pay for it.

 

lots of potential impacts

Nope, people will adapt.

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I wrote, 400k, not 150k.

ok so the first 150k/month is tax free? That seems too high to capture most people in Thailand so if that ends up happening I would expect it to get dragged down townwards the 60k/month level.

[Mike Lister]

I'm very confident that nobody is going to get taxed on imported money to buy a house, the market would collapse.

[Bobthegimp]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

 

As someone mentioned, not spending more than 179 days a year in any one country. (There are pros and cons, of course.)

 

I'm drawing a pension that is fully taxed in Canada and is under a tax treaty, so I suspect the worst in store for me is some additional paperwork. 

 

The globalist nonsense is of far more concern, like rainbow crosswalks and the other issues at home I was happy to escape. 

[bob smith]

8 minutes ago, Bobthegimp said:

 

Leave, but to where? 

 

Didn't we have some big global event around 3 years ago when the governments of the world, despite all of the language and cultural barriers, reached the same conclusions and took the exact same measures in almost perfect lockstep?  Looks like we're getting another taste of it. 

 

Colombia and Thailand are very disparate cultures on opposite sides of the world, yet are adopting the same tax measures as Western nations.  Let me know if you find a bolt hole to escape this globalist madness and the first drinking binge is on me. 

The 'bolt hole' as you put it is to not spend any longer than 180 days in any country.

 

90 days would be even better, just to be on the safe side.

[freeworld]

9 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Right, ok.

People being taxed should also qualify for SS then !!

Nope. SS is a separate contribution. Taxes are to pay for govt services and infrastructure which long term residents use.

Edited November 6, 2023 by freeworld

[Gknrd]

13 minutes ago, bob smith said:

my suitcase is already packed!.

 

I can leave at a moments notice. 

Yeah, I keep a home in my country. I make a few extra pennies, and am required to file here in the US.   Whether I have to pay any extra or not I have to file. Since I am old I don't want the hassle. So, I bypass countries that make my life difficult.  I just head home a few months each year.

[Bobthegimp]

Just now, freeworld said:

Nope. SS is a seperate cobtribution. Taxes are to pay for govt services and infrastructure which long term residents use.

 

Like hospitals for 30 baht per month? Plenty of geezers would happily pay tax if they had access to medical care. 

[Thaindrew]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm very confident that nobody is going to get taxed on imported money to buy a house, the market would collapse.

I guess the work around re property is that money will be remitted to a lawyer or registered estate agent, so not in your name.

 

 

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Can samui said:

Ok, here are my concerns.

I will say, it will be nearly impossible for a foreigner to file his own taxes so there goes 20,000 to pay an accountant to file for you.

Embassies no longer issue statements of income for visa extension purposes so cannot see them issuing proof of taxation.

Who will be responsible for confirming the paperwork at immigration for visa renewal. Dont think there are many tax lawyers at the local office.

This is going to be…interesting. 

1) Possibly, but I suspect if your application is done through an agent it will sail through.

2) Embassies are no longer in that game for sure. 

3) Some paperwork may have to be verified, maybe notary or 'certified copy'. 

Jobs and income for yet more locals.

 

I still suggest people are getting ahead of themselves..... at worst a TIN obtained and a tax return filed for a long extension..... the guy in the tax office did mine for me previously, I couldn't read it. I gave them a big tin of biscuits. 

 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, NorthernRyland said:

ok so the first 150k/month is tax free? That seems too high to capture most people in Thailand so if that ends up happening I would expect it to get dragged down townwards the 60k/month level.

One more time ryan, just for you!

 

Income tax in every country is assessed annually, that's when you do the summing up and make the tax calculation.

 

Everyone is entitled to a 60k per YEAR tax deduction, plus, everyone over age 65 years is entitled to a 190k per YEAR tax deduction. In addition, the first 150k of income on the Thai tax tables is zero rated, that's the first 150K per YEAR. When all is said and done, the average over 65 year old pensioner will be entitled to over 400k in tax free money per YEAR. Please tell me you got that!

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

When all is said and done, the average over 65 year old pensioner will be entitled to over 400k in tax free money per YEAR. Please tell me you got that!

That is just above where my State pension is 'frozen'.... great, thanks!

[sandyf]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

 

I still suggest people are getting ahead of themselves..... at worst a TIN obtained and a tax return filed for a long extension..... the guy in the tax office did mine for me previously, I couldn't read it. I gave them a big tin of biscuits. 

Quite, a real issue may arise if we see the introduction of TM130 - Notification of tax return submission.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, sandyf said:

Quite, a real issue may arise if we see the introduction of TM130 - Notification of tax return submission.

I agree, that's got to be a possibility since many other countries require similar from resident aliens who reside in their countries, before they are allowed to depart.

[lordgrinz]

I think the bottom line here is that I am not willing to fill out any tax papers or share any sensitive financial information from foreign accounts with any Thai government agency, would rather just leave first. I would bet many others would agree, if that's what they want, so be it.

[khunpa]

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm very confident that nobody is going to get taxed on imported money to buy a house, the market would collapse.

Well no matter what any transfers into the country, could involve a risk of you having to prove where the money comes from.

 

So in theory you could face a nightmare in having to prove your transfer was already taxed.

 

Of course in practical terms the RD-Officer will properly just as for an envelope for your new problem to “go away”.