Factchecking 21 misleading myths about electric vehicles

[Wobblybob]

3 minutes ago, Tord55 said:

You need to know if the charge stations along the route on your car map are free, working, and possible to use with your car to be able to plan, as otherwise, you risk spending as long in queues to get access to charging (and charging) as your time spent on traveling to your goal. That is sadly what happens to many EV owners if they plan to travel a decent distance!

 

Our local truck plant only makes heavy trucks, all powered by electrics, as they are designed for local delivery, and garbage collection (thus about 100 miles per day). They have given up making long distance trucks!

Ah yea of little faith, if your batteries lose the will to live on your journey, recovery firms will send out a gas operated van towing a diesel generator to get you on your way again. Anybody know how long it takes to charge an EV.😂😂😂

[Bandersnatch]

7 minutes ago, Tord55 said:

You need to know if the charge stations along the route on your car map are free, working, and possible to use with your car to be able to plan, as otherwise, you risk spending as long in queues to get access to charging (and charging) as your time spent on traveling to your goal. That is sadly what happens to many EV owners if they plan to travel a decent distance!

 

 

You are replying to @KhunLA who owns an EV in Thailand and you are telling him about charging an EV in Thailand 

 

The question is, you the one giving advice about charging an EV in Thailand, do you actually own an EV in Thailand?  Or are you just spouting uninformed rubbish?

[Bandersnatch]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Anybody know how long it takes to charge an EV.😂😂😂

 

Not you obviously  😂😂😂

[GroveHillWanderer]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the OP is presenting various statements as established myths, without evidence to support the claim. It's called begging the question.

 

" Electric vehicles alone can’t solve climate change"

 

This is not a myth. If every ICE in Australia was to be converted to an EV overnight, the resulting reduction in carbon dioxide emissions would be 9%. Said EV's still need to be refuelled from CO2 - belching power stations.

 

It's not a myth EV's are going to cause more road wear, due to their higher vehicle mass. Res ipsa loquitur.

 

It's not a myth EV ownership has some of the characteristics of a religion, with dissenters being regarded as heretics.

 

It's not a myth there won't be sufficient raw material for batteries available to achieve complete EV conversion, until at least ten times the current mine capacity is in full production.

Your complaint about the OP not providing evidence is unfounded - all the sources were in the linked article. On the other hand, you make a bunch of claims in your post without any linked sources whatsoever.

 

Pot calling kettle black, or what?

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

You didn't read the linked article did you?

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-21-misleading-myths-about-electric-vehicles/

 

When you've actually done your homework, then you can come back and post here

I don't need your permission to post whenever I want. Reading through the "fact checking" it does need some fact checking itself. Such as the claim only 3.5 times current raw material production is needed for total conversion worldwide.

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

don't need your permission to post whenever I want

 

The grownups were discussing an article that you couldn’t be bothered to read but you wanted to discuss it anyway!

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

The grownups were discussing an article that you couldn’t be bothered to read but you wanted to discuss it anyway!

You;re a grownup? Your post proves the opposite.

[Lacessit]

 

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

 

Non-issue, it's simply a case of what you order from the electricity provider.

 

In the UK the motorway service stations are changing over to Electric and the grid are upgrading their network to provide the needed output to each station.  It is called "planning".

 

You have to love these "armchair youtube experts".

Edited November 12, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[Gweiloman]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

The reason no one is talking about this “HUGE” problem is because it’s not really a problem.

 

The real problem is that anti-EVers still thinks about operating an EV the same way they operate their ICEV. They are used to going to the filling station regularly to fill up their fuel tank. EV owners don’t have to do this. I haven’t charged at a public station for a long time and don’t intend to unless I’m taking a long journey. Owning an EV requires a different approach to the issue of covering the required distance. Each journey is different and requires some thought. If this is too much trouble for you, then the simple answer is to not get an EV. For many others, this is a walk in the park @KhunLA

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

The reason no one is talking about this “HUGE” problem is because it’s not really a problem.

 

The real problem is that anti-EVers still thinks about operating an EV the same way they operate their ICEV. They are used to going to the filling station regularly to fill up their fuel tank. EV owners don’t have to do this. I haven’t charged at a public station for a long time and don’t intend to unless I’m taking a long journey. Owning an EV requires a different approach to the issue of covering the required distance. Each journey is different and requires some thought. If this is too much trouble for you, then the simple answer is to not get an EV. For many others, this is a walk in the park @KhunLA

Yep ...

... while on Thai road for 3ish hours, I need to P, dog needs to P, wife needs to P.  Time to stretch the legs, get a snack and or coffee.

 

Maybe confirm that hotel reservation since now I know I'm actually here.

 

Lots of option, pit stops, to do all .... while I'm at it ...

... I think I'll plug the car in.  Which pit stop to choose ?

 

That's some difficult thinking ... that Ph'd is coming in handy.

[Fruit Trader]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

 

 

The video makes a good point when you consider the following.

 

Unlike liquid fuel, power delivery for EV charging stations is a lot more complex than simply placing an order. Some locations will have capacity to meet a stations maximum demand where others might need a diversity plan to limit power when all chargers are in use. Diversity calculations happen at all levels of power distribution. 

 

Not all EV owners will be charging at home and demand for reliable high output charging facilities will increase.

Link to article about capturing diversity

 

 

 

[Purdey]

While good to read the myths published about EVs, insurance companies are nevertheless increasing premiums for EVs. And no, it isn't just for Tesla cars. This may put people off buying if insurance soars to £5,000 a year. 

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/john-lewis-pauses-offering-ev-cover-after-underwriter-decision/1445752.article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2023/10/10/insurance-costs-could-cripple-european-electric-car-sales/?sh=41991475ae68

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24350279/drivers-pay-more-insure-evs/#:~:text=Several insurers have begun refusing,Model Y's earlier this year.

[JBChiangRai]

40 minutes ago, Purdey said:

While good to read the myths published about EVs, insurance companies are nevertheless increasing premiums for EVs. And no, it isn't just for Tesla cars. This may put people off buying if insurance soars to £5,000 a year. 

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/john-lewis-pauses-offering-ev-cover-after-underwriter-decision/1445752.article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2023/10/10/insurance-costs-could-cripple-european-electric-car-sales/?sh=41991475ae68

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24350279/drivers-pay-more-insure-evs/#:~:text=Several insurers have begun refusing,Model Y's earlier this year.

 

I renewed the insurance on my daughter's one year old MG EV last month, 8,800 baht 1st class.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I renewed the insurance on my daughter's one year old MG EV last month, 8,800 baht 1st class.

We renewed at ฿11.4k, and received 'rebate' of ฿1400 to 'True Wallet', which we spent already, so ฿10k for insurance.  Insured value of ฿860k which is 1k more than sales price for new MG ZS EV 

 

Actually cheaper than the coverage for the ICE version, (considering insured value) which was valued at ฿400k at time of sale and under policy.  That policy was about ฿8.5k, though a different vendor.  

55 minutes ago, Purdey said:

While good to read the myths published about EVs, insurance companies are nevertheless increasing premiums for EVs. And no, it isn't just for Tesla cars. This may put people off buying if insurance soars to £5,000 a year. 

฿222.3k ... That's just silly.  Who'd pay that for insurance.

 

Totally irrelevant since we live in THAILAND

Edited November 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[Tongjaw]

Those do gooders EV drivers must be real proud of themselves, keeping all the 7 year olds busy working in the Chinese owned Congo cobalt mines. 

[Luuk Chaai]

7 hours ago, Tongjaw said:

Those do gooders EV drivers must be real proud of themselves, keeping all the 7 year olds busy working in the Chinese owned Congo cobalt mines. 

I'd rather walk  ......

Cobalt is fast turning from a miracle metal to a deadly chemical as toxic dumping is devastating landscapes, polluting water, and contaminating crops. High concentrations of cobalt have even been linked to the death of crops and worms, which are vital for soil fertility.Mar 28, 2566 BE

e360: China now owns most of the industrial cobalt mines in the Congo.Mar 30, 2566 BE

China controls the majority of the cobalt mines in Congo, strengthening Beijing's position in the global supply chain for electric vehicles and other products.

The mineral is in hot demand because it is a critical component in the batteries used in electric vehicles and electronic devices. Mining of cobalt is now linked to grave human rights abuses, including the exposure of miners to unsafe worksites and reliance on child labor.Feb 9, 2566 BE

There's complete cross-contamination between industrial excavator-derived cobalt and cobalt dug by women and children with their bare hands," he says. "Industrial mines, almost all of them, have artisanal miners working, digging in and around them, feeding cobalt into the formal supply chain."

The rush for cobalt in the Congo reveals the human cost of the world's green energy future -

"Clean Energy " ???   forget about it    he and his son are making $$$$$$$$$$

[KhunLA]

So cobalt is only an issue when used for EV batteries, which they are getting away from, with LFP chemistry batteries.

 

Doesn't seem to be an issue when used in other products you use; Phone, laptop, oil & petroleum production, metals & alloys.

 

Just those nasty EVs 

 

2021 ...

... 34% of cobalt used in EV batteries (now less)

... 31% used in other purpose batteries; phones, laptops, etc

 

" Superalloys, which are used to make parts for gas turbine engines, are another major use for cobalt.  Cobalt is also used to make airbags in automobiles; catalysts for the petroleum and chemical industries; cemented carbides (also called hardmetals) and diamond tools; corrosion- and wear-resistant alloys; drying agents for paints, varnishes, and inks; dyes and pigments; ground coats for porcelain enamels; high-speed steels; magnetic recording media; magnets; and steel-belted radial tires."

 

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Edited November 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Tongjaw said:

Those do gooders EV drivers must be real proud of themselves, keeping all the 7 year olds busy working in the Chinese owned Congo cobalt mines. 

 

4 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

I'd rather walk  ......

Cobalt is fast turning from a miracle metal to a deadly chemical as toxic dumping is devastating landscapes, polluting water, and contaminating crops. High concentrations of cobalt have even been linked to the death of crops and worms, which are vital for soil fertility.Mar 28, 2566 BE

e360: China now owns most of the industrial cobalt mines in the Congo.Mar 30, 2566 BE

China controls the majority of the cobalt mines in Congo, strengthening Beijing's position in the global supply chain for electric vehicles and other products.

The mineral is in hot demand because it is a critical component in the batteries used in electric vehicles and electronic devices. Mining of cobalt is now linked to grave human rights abuses, including the exposure of miners to unsafe worksites and reliance on child labor.Feb 9, 2566 BE

There's complete cross-contamination between industrial excavator-derived cobalt and cobalt dug by women and children with their bare hands," he says. "Industrial mines, almost all of them, have artisanal miners working, digging in and around them, feeding cobalt into the formal supply chain."

The rush for cobalt in the Congo reveals the human cost of the world's green energy future -

"Clean Energy " ???   forget about it    he and his son are making $$$$$$$$$$

I don’t doubt that there maybe 1 or 2 small mines where the unscrupulous owners are exploiting children. But one must really be living in the middle of Nakhon Nowhere and ignorant to think that the large China owned mines are relying on inefficient manual labour as opposed to heavy machinery.

 

You probably still believe in debt trap diplomacy and Uyghur genocide 

[Purdey]

17 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Who'd pay that for insurance.

Apparently there is some buyer regret.

As for Thailand, it is always a bit behind the West. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Purdey

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Apparently there is some buyer regret.

As for Thailand, it is always a bit behind the West. 

Think you got that backwards, as TH appears to be way ahead of the West.   EVs are very affordable here, and CSa (ATM) are plentiful.   Solar Systems are inexpensive.  Two of my newest toys.

 

I don't think anyone regrets buying an EV here, unless it was the overpriced Leaf.   Early buyers are upgrading to newer tech/battery chemistry.  As normal when new toys come out, and they want to have first, and really should know better is just on the horizon.  More so now, with the flood of EVs hitting the market.  

 

We've seen it over & over with 'electronic' tech, computer, phones, cameras, even drones.  More competition, produces more options at better prices.  Even our EV (MG ZS) had a ฿100k price drop since we ordered, 18months ago and received 1 year ago.  As did the rest of the MG's BEV line up.

 

Not happy about it, but no real loss for us, as saved ฿40-50k from not buying petrol within that year, and didn't lose another 10-15% on the ICE version we sold, if held another year, so another ฿40-60k realized.  Pretty much a wash.

 

Top it off, the insured value, just renewed 2 weeks ago, if totaled or stolen, is ฿1k more than price of a new one 

[Tongjaw]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

So cobalt is only an issue when used for EV batteries, which they are getting away from, with LFP chemistry batteries.

 

Doesn't seem to be an issue when used in other products you use; Phone, laptop, oil & petroleum production, metals & alloys.

 

Just those nasty EVs 

 

2021 ...

... 34% of cobalt used in EV batteries (now less)

... 31% used in other purpose batteries; phones, laptops, etc

 

" Superalloys, which are used to make parts for gas turbine engines, are another major use for cobalt.  Cobalt is also used to make airbags in automobiles; catalysts for the petroleum and chemical industries; cemented carbides (also called hardmetals) and diamond tools; corrosion- and wear-resistant alloys; drying agents for paints, varnishes, and inks; dyes and pigments; ground coats for porcelain enamels; high-speed steels; magnetic recording media; magnets; and steel-belted radial tires."

 

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Nice little graph.

I never claimed that cobalt " Blood Diamond of Electric Cars", wasn't used in other products. However your graph from 2021 tells us that the Congo has increase production by 34% to feed the EV industry, plenty of overtime for those estimated 44,000 poor kids. Read below and you will realise that your claim that it is now less than 34% is pure codswallop.

 

A few years ago, revelations about dire working conditions in Congo’s informal mining sector vaulted into the world’s headlines after Amnesty International and the Congolese rights group Afrewatch published a report detailing deaths and injuries among the countless children working in small-scale, hand-dug mines, often in manually carved tunnels that frequently collapsed and buried the young miners alive.

Since then, global appetite for Congo’s cobalt has grown sharply, mostly driven by a dramatic increase in the demand for EVs. Nearly 90 percent of the cobalt produced in Congo, home to half the world’s reserves, goes into batteries, including those used by American, French, German, Japanese and South Korean automakers. Demand for cobalt is projected to increase 20-fold by 2040, according to the International Energy Agency.

 

[Tongjaw]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

I don’t doubt that there maybe 1 or 2 small mines where the unscrupulous owners are exploiting children. But one must really be living in the middle of Nakhon Nowhere and ignorant to think that the large China owned mines are relying on inefficient manual labour as opposed to heavy machinery.

 

You probably still believe in debt trap diplomacy and Uyghur genocide 

If you truly believe there are only 1 or 2 that employ and estimated 44,000 children then you are definitely living in Nakhon Nowhere. 

[Gweiloman]

16 hours ago, Tongjaw said:

If you truly believe there are only 1 or 2 that employ and estimated 44,000 children then you are definitely living in Nakhon Nowhere. 

So I guess you personally went to Congo and counted up the kids?

 

I live in Chiang Mai which some could conclude as Nakhon Nowhere. Fortunately, I’m not biased or gullible and ignorant.

[Tongjaw]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

So I guess you personally went to Congo and counted up the kids?

 

I live in Chiang Mai which some could conclude as Nakhon Nowhere. Fortunately, I’m not biased or gullible and ignorant.

Anyone who believes China cares about human rights of children is 100% gullible and ignorant.  Try doing a little bit of research yourself. Here is a little bit from the European Parliament in 2022. 

Cobalt is a critical component in rechargeable car batteries and is indispensable for the transition from fossil fuels to sustainable energy sources. The EU’s 2030 climate target will only increase demand for this metal in the EU.

The Democratic Republic of the Congo, where the world’s largest known reservoirs of this metal are found, provides a substantial amount of the cobalt the EU needs to meet its growing demand[1]. Despite the Commission’s zero‑tolerance approach to child labor in trade agreements, it is estimated,, according to reports by UN agencies, that in the southern Katanga province, more than 40 000 children are working in hazardous conditions in cobalt mines, with inadequate safety equipment and for very little money[2].

[Elkski]

Ive heard of some businesses wanting to expand their shop but told it will be a year to get a transformer.   I think some import restrictions on the Chinese plus all the weather related power line isssues.  Gow is this going to effect the ramp up of charging stations?  

Like I've said in another thread. If charging an ev takes 30 min, 6 times longer than an ICE we meed starions with 100 chargers all  over the place   that requires 6 times the footprint not even considering the area fir a que line. Biden has tried to help in this area but its going to have to be profitable.   At 63 this may not happen in my lifetime. 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, Elkski said:

Ive heard of some businesses wanting to expand their shop but told it will be a year to get a transformer.   I think some import restrictions on the Chinese plus all the weather related power line isssues.  Gow is this going to effect the ramp up of charging stations?  

Like I've said in another thread. If charging an ev takes 30 min, 6 times longer than an ICE we meed starions with 100 chargers all  over the place   that requires 6 times the footprint not even considering the area fir a que line. Biden has tried to help in this area but its going to have to be profitable.   At 63 this may not happen in my lifetime. 

 

 You are forgetting, people charge at home, you only need charging stations every 150km

[Gweiloman]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 You are forgetting, people charge at home, you only need charging stations every 150km

Like I mentioned in another post, ICEV owners think like ICEV owners, not like EV owners. They just can’t seem to wrap their heads around the idea that they don’t need to frequent a filling station every few days. Guess they’ll never learn till they own an EV, if ever.

[Lee65]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Guess they’ll never learn till they own an EV, if ever.

 

Fortunately, people can learn about EV ownership w/o having to buy one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ev+horror+stories

[Elkski]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Like I mentioned in another post, ICEV owners think like ICEV owners, not like EV owners. They just can’t seem to wrap their heads around the idea that they don’t need to frequent a filling station every few days. Guess they’ll never learn till they own an EV, if ever.

I realize i would charge at home.  Probably try to use solar.   But the whole of Thailand can fit in Utah and Nevada.   When we take a road trip it can be 500 miles or 800 easy.   On the open remote highways I'm just saying you will need charging station numbers that reflect the difference in times to fill a tank with petrol and to charge a battery and % of ev's to accommodate the same vehicle numbers.   In these wide open places increasing the foot print of a charging station will be easy but in more rural areas how will they fit?  And the real estate will cost so much more   

Or will people rent ice for long trips or need to keep the old one? 

What about road trips into the back country?  Its one thing to have a gas can but a dead battery 20 miles from nowhere is going to be expensive to solve.  Can you charge one ev from another?