Buying A Bar / Business In Pattaya

[Dazza72]

Hello everyone,

after visting pattaya 3 times in the last 9 months (amazing place by the way!!) I have been comtemplating buying a bar or business over there, I would have enough capital to do this I have a few questions that maybe someone who has already done this could help me answer.

1) is it like a lottery, do all bars make money

2) can you live off one bar alone or would you need to buy 2 or 3 ?

3) what sort of money would be needed to do this to get a half decent bar

4) eventually I would like to live over there but maybe for the for 2/3 years I would be living in the uk, would this be ok or would I be asking for problems.

5) what are the typical profits you can make (ie low season - high season) per month ?

thanks in advance

Darren

[retiredusn]

Hello everyone,

after visting pattaya 3 times in the last 9 months (amazing place by the way!!) I have been comtemplating buying a bar or business over there, I would have enough capital to do this I have a few questions that maybe someone who has already done this could help me answer.

1) is it like a lottery, do all bars make money

2) can you live off one bar alone or would you need to buy 2 or 3 ?

3) what sort of money would be needed to do this to get a half decent bar

4) eventually I would like to live over there but maybe for the for 2/3 years I would be living in the uk, would this be ok or would I be asking for problems.

5) what are the typical profits you can make (ie low season - high season) per month ?

thanks in advance

Darren

Go see Andrew at the Derby Shire on Soi 6 he may be able to answer all your questions, Jim

[Humphrey Bear]

The old chestnut again.

Hello everyone,

after visting pattaya 3 times in the last 9 months (amazing place by the way!!) I have been comtemplating buying a bar or business over there, I would have enough capital to do this I have a few questions that maybe someone who has already done this could help me answer.

1) is it like a lottery, do all bars make money

A professionally run bar, in the right location, with the right Thai partner, creating a good ambience, MAY make reasonable money.

2) can you live off one bar alone or would you need to buy 2 or 3 ?

You can go broke on one bar, you can go broke even quicker if you buy multiple bars. You will not give them sufficient attention

3) what sort of money would be needed to do this to get a half decent bar

Thie will be rented, I assume. Key money - could be 50k baht. Equipment and goodwill from current owner - anything from 200k to a million. Rent (monthly) 15-30k baht.

4) eventually I would like to live over there but maybe for the for 2/3 years I would be living in the uk, would this be ok or would I be asking for problems.

You wopuld be throwing all your money away

5) what are the typical profits you can make (ie low season - high season) per month ?

Depends on the bar - depends on you. But you have to be there to see any profits.

thanks in advance

Darren

I have owned / run bars in Thailand and elsewhere in my time. But it is not a money machine anywhere - and certainly not in Pattaya or other expat centres in Thailand, where the competition is keen and a poorly run bar will fail quickly. If you have experience of owning / running pubs or bars, you stand a chance. Otherwise think of something else that you are good at, and can market to the population (torist and resident) of our fair city. And make sure you can get a work permit for whatever that may be, 'cos it ain't easy.

[soundman]

Unless you have been successful in the entertainment industry before, and become well aquainted with all its pitfalls - as a general rule - stay away from the bar business in Thailand. You will lose your money quicker than in a Cambodian casino.

If you have a good nose for these things I would suggest a long observation period (months to years) & even then no guarantees.....

If you decide to go ahead - due diligence - check the lease, check the lease, check the lease, check the lease, check the lease, check the lease & don't get into one on a handshake....

Soundman.

[Dazza72]

The old chestnut again.

Hello everyone,

after visting pattaya 3 times in the last 9 months (amazing place by the way!!) I have been comtemplating buying a bar or business over there, I would have enough capital to do this I have a few questions that maybe someone who has already done this could help me answer.

1) is it like a lottery, do all bars make money

A professionally run bar, in the right location, with the right Thai partner, creating a good ambience, MAY make reasonable money.

2) can you live off one bar alone or would you need to buy 2 or 3 ?

You can go broke on one bar, you can go broke even quicker if you buy multiple bars. You will not give them sufficient attention

3) what sort of money would be needed to do this to get a half decent bar

Thie will be rented, I assume. Key money - could be 50k baht. Equipment and goodwill from current owner - anything from 200k to a million. Rent (monthly) 15-30k baht.

4) eventually I would like to live over there but maybe for the for 2/3 years I would be living in the uk, would this be ok or would I be asking for problems.

You wopuld be throwing all your money away

5) what are the typical profits you can make (ie low season - high season) per month ?

Depends on the bar - depends on you. But you have to be there to see any profits.

thanks in advance

Darren

I have owned / run bars in Thailand and elsewhere in my time. But it is not a money machine anywhere - and certainly not in Pattaya or other expat centres in Thailand, where the competition is keen and a poorly run bar will fail quickly. If you have experience of owning / running pubs or bars, you stand a chance. Otherwise think of something else that you are good at, and can market to the population (torist and resident) of our fair city. And make sure you can get a work permit for whatever that may be, 'cos it ain't easy.

Ok so basically to have any sort of income you need to be over there managing the place, I would not have any bar experience but when I was over in june I met so many people who have just up and left the uk and started a new life for themselves but it does not appear so easy as it seems

[funfun]

The old chestnut again.

Hello everyone,

after visting pattaya 3 times in the last 9 months (amazing place by the way!!) I have been comtemplating buying a bar or business over there, I would have enough capital to do this I have a few questions that maybe someone who has already done this could help me answer.

1) is it like a lottery, do all bars make money

A professionally run bar, in the right location, with the right Thai partner, creating a good ambience, MAY make reasonable money.

2) can you live off one bar alone or would you need to buy 2 or 3 ?

You can go broke on one bar, you can go broke even quicker if you buy multiple bars. You will not give them sufficient attention

3) what sort of money would be needed to do this to get a half decent bar

Thie will be rented, I assume. Key money - could be 50k baht. Equipment and goodwill from current owner - anything from 200k to a million. Rent (monthly) 15-30k baht.

4) eventually I would like to live over there but maybe for the for 2/3 years I would be living in the uk, would this be ok or would I be asking for problems.

You wopuld be throwing all your money away

5) what are the typical profits you can make (ie low season - high season) per month ?

Depends on the bar - depends on you. But you have to be there to see any profits.

thanks in advance

Darren

I have owned / run bars in Thailand and elsewhere in my time. But it is not a money machine anywhere - and certainly not in Pattaya or other expat centres in Thailand, where the competition is keen and a poorly run bar will fail quickly. If you have experience of owning / running pubs or bars, you stand a chance. Otherwise think of something else that you are good at, and can market to the population (torist and resident) of our fair city. And make sure you can get a work permit for whatever that may be, 'cos it ain't easy.

yep totally agree, and one more little thing, just my opinion like but, You are Gonna Get Lied to an Awfull lot more than you previosly have,on a daily basis!! and from every direction, from some of the people who live work here, to your own town folk ,who maybe want you to buy a particular bar for many a reason (mainly money)

best of luck darren and that old one, "a fool and his money" think of this every day!

[Humphrey Bear]

Further to my earlier post.

The following is open to correction by anyone who knows better than me - I have been out of the Thai business scene for four years now, so am a little out of touch.

If you want to own a business in Thailand, you will need Thai partners. Seven is the lucky number. And between them they will own 51% of the business. You may control their votes however. (Unless it's the wife - she will go her own way - always)

A company with a value of more than 2 million baht may issue one work permit for a foreigner, who may work in one of several permitted categories. However many categories of work that may be performed by Thais are closed to foreigners. You must have a special skill not available (readily available) from Thais. Each additional 2 mill of capital gives you another work permit opening.

The company as set up must have defined aims and must work to achieve those aims, showing a profit (I think that's necessary, so you can pay tax).

Lately I think the government has introduced legislation to make the Thai shareholders in to active participants, rather than sleeping partners. This is a very dangerous move, if I have it correct.

This is a very amateur summary. You should go to a specialist business advisor to get the fine print sorted.

The one thing you cannot do is to waltz in and start a business without doing your homework and getting all the paper right beforehand. You will get serious problems if you do.

[soundman]

Further to my earlier post.

The following is open to correction by anyone who knows better than me - I have been out of the Thai business scene for four years now, so am a little out of touch.

If you want to own a business in Thailand, you will need Thai partners. Seven is the lucky number. And between them they will own 51% of the business. You may control their votes however. (Unless it's the wife - she will go her own way - always)

Just a small correction if I may Humphrey...

If you go down the "company" path, you will need a minimum of seven partners with the majority of shares being held by Thai"s. You may actually have six foreigners and one thai owning the company, and the one thai holds 51% of the shares.

I am also under the impression that you may be able to open the business as a limited partnership, requiring only two (?) partners, with the majority being held by thai interests.

If you are American there are other options available.

If you serious, check with Forum sponsor Sunbelt.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Dazza72]

jesus It sounds like a nightmare I didnt think it was that difficult, there was me thinking I front the money , let the staff work for me and let the money roll in....I was never under the assumption that I would be a millionaire maybe just earn enough to have a half decent lifestyle...i was looking at http://www.pattayainvestments.com/ and its sounds so easy to do, never mind thanks to you guys Ive pretty much knocked this idea on the head now

does anyone else know of any other investments that are worth looking into without as many risks as mentioned above

thanks again

[lazeeboy]

jesus It sounds like a nightmare I didnt think it was that difficult, there was me thinking I front the money , let the staff work for me and let the money roll in....I was never under the assumption that I would be a millionaire maybe just earn enough to have a half decent lifestyle...i was looking at http://www.pattayainvestments.com/ and its sounds so easy to do, never mind thanks to you guys Ive pretty much knocked this idea on the head now

does anyone else know of any other investments that are worth looking into without as many risks as mentioned above

thanks again

the only way to do business in thailand is alone ,buy into a partner ship is a no no as 99 times out of 100 the business is not doing any good ,if it was why sell half as there are many people ready to manage for awage ............

[Chang_paarp]

jesus It sounds like a nightmare I didnt think it was that difficult, there was me thinking I front the money , let the staff work for me and let the money roll in....I was never under the assumption that I would be a millionaire maybe just earn enough to have a half decent lifestyle...i was looking at http://www.pattayainvestments.com/ and its sounds so easy to do, never mind thanks to you guys Ive pretty much knocked this idea on the head now

does anyone else know of any other investments that are worth looking into without as many risks as mentioned abovethanks again

If you do not want to be activley involved.......

A well managed investment portfolio in a stable economy, one you know.

One idea, buy a couple of properties in the UK if that is your home, retain a % for maintenance and repairs and live on the balance. Have the money sent to your account in Singapore / HK / UK or any stable economy and access it through internet or ATM.

You need to be "on the ground" to manage your investment in any 3rd world country, (and many 1st world countries) if you want to benefit from the investment.

[EmCross]

Having any sort of business here in Thailand even if you follow all the rules and get the best advice is fraught with difficulties especially for farangs (foreigners) and almost impossible without a Thai wife or partner and this of course also has it's pitfalls even if you have. If you are not going to be here to keep a very tight control of things then I would say don't do it.

[N47HAN]

Buying a beer bar is a good sound buisiness venture in pattaya. The hours are short the rewards financially great. I would highly reccomend it to all

[Dazza72]

Thanks to all, seems I need to do a bit more research before going straight in

[Gerry290]

Very Interesting thread...

All those with experience of owning or managing a bar in Thailand both good and bad experiences (especially Pattaya) should as an act of charity and humanity... all get together and write a book, or mannual..warning all the lads who come over here on a few 2 weeker holidays, and then next thing is "I m going to buy a bar"!!

Having a bit of experience over here now (not in bar business), when I was green and inexperience. I too spewed the "I m going to open a bar in Pattaya" script to anyone who would listen... I also really believe that all the girls really liked me for my looks and personality too, at the time, and I was truly the only one who was Handsome Man. My Ti Rak, and Rak you Mak Mak! ( I think these 2 illusions go hand in hand!).

No one mentioned yet, in order to run a smooth operation with no problems, the.... errrr emmmm ... commission ??!!?? . that potenitally has to be paid to the.... Ah!! NO... it could not be true... I will not say it... I knew all along the lad who told me about that was BS'ing me.

I think the only chance you would have of being any way successful (aside from getting people in the door, in a very competitve environment) would be to stand over the cash register and cash and watch every bill being paid like a hawk from the second the bar opens until the cash and stock is done at end of night.. 18 hours a day... 7 days a week, 365 days a year.... Oh Pattaya is great fun now!! ;-)

I was introduced a few months back, to a Thai lady (in her late 30s approx) at a party in BKK, who owns quite a number of large and established bars in the Nana and Shukumvit area of BKK. She seems to do very very well money wise out of it. Her bro... for a youngish man, is quite a high ranking police officer too. AH... I suppose its hard work, savvy marketing and good luck, that is the key to her success!

[eefoo]

Buying a beer bar is a good sound buisiness venture in pattaya. The hours are short the rewards financially great. I would highly reccomend it to all

I don't normally like these emoticon/smiley things, but I have to have a go here ......

Dazza, the best two words I can give you are - Bad Idea

[RAZZELL]

Buying a beer bar is a good sound buisiness venture in pattaya. The hours are short the rewards financially great. I would highly reccomend it to all

I don't normally like these emoticon/smiley things, but I have to have a go here ......

Dazza, the best two words I can give you are - Bad Idea

If you just want to exist it's doable...Or just to have a good laugh for a year or 2...

However, at a guess..90 bars in a hundred make very little money, maybe 8 make a good Thai-style living... And 2 in a hundred make a lot of money.

But like most retailing, it's location, location, location, a bit of branding, and finally what is your unique selling point in a town with x-thousand bars already???

RAZZ

Edited July 17, 2007 by RAZZELL

[suiging]

Simple really. If it was easy we would all be doing it.

[Dazza72]

cheers everyone you have really opened my eyes to the potential pitfalls here, I will probably look at something else now but I still am determined to eventually try and move over there I just need to find a different way of earning a stable income

[Humphrey Bear]

cheers everyone you have really opened my eyes to the potential pitfalls here, I will probably look at something else now but I still am determined to eventually try and move over there I just need to find a different way of earning a stable income

As I suggested earlier - look at your own personal skill-set.

If you are a good plumber, you can promote a maintenance / construction company and get business from the resident ex-pats.

If you are an IT specialist, then you may be able to work on-line for your own out-of-kingdom computer company. I say OOK because then all the money is held outside Thailand (a good thing) and you may avoid the restrictions on IT farangs (if there are any - this is just ideas off the top of my head).

If you have a particular partner in mind, who is good at running bars - then this is also do-able. But such partners are few and far between.

And if the money rolls in fast enough - it don't matter what business you're in, you can still spend your evenings in the bars of your choice.

[Dazza72]

thanks for your input Humphrey, also and for the benefit of other readers who might also be thinking the same as me is it wise to avoid such sites as http://www.pattayainvestments.com

they do not really quote sales revenue etc when searching to buy a bar and after the feedback here it seems that they wouldnt be making much, I mean who would sell a bar which was making loads of money

[suiging]

Benefit of the doubt time.

I think you'll find Mr Modplod will take offence to highlighting other links on TV. Surely that wasn't the reason for the initial post ? A cynic may think this thread was organized for a dig a the " other" company ?

I of course never submit to cynicism. ( well..........)

[Gerry290]

I am not sure what your experience is or are you involved in business etc...

The reason I ask is this...

with modern communication technology such as VOIP phone, which allow you to have your home city/country phone number, and once you got good broadband and computer, you can be anywhere in the world.

I "telework" into europe, in fact, I do the exact same job as I did when I was sitting in my old office in dublin,as 90% of the business I am in, was done over Phone and email. Now I got 10 years experience in my sector, and 7 years running my own business. I recruit european based IT Engineers for companies in europe. So I suppose VOIP made my business more or less portable, and I decided to scale it down from 14 staff biz, to me solo about a year before i even consider "teleworking". and now with elance.com I have outsourced many easy to do, but essential tasks, that bore me to tears to do.

I was suprised to meet many other farangs who also Telework into europe and USA. doing things like IT Consulting, Life Coaching, Coaching people to set up internet business with web design and SEO services too, IT Technical Support by dialing into clients networks from Thailand, Sales/lead generation/telemarketing business.

So maybe depending on your skills, or experience that is an option?

Two important points are... all the people I met who Telework to their home countries (including me) had years of experience, and were in business anyway at home, before things like VOIP made them globally mobile. So if you know your job inside out.. yes you can do it. but I would not recommend you do it, thinking you can start up something new, just cause you can telework it from thailand.

Also point 2 is... in my case and other people who do same, I am 110% legally set up over here, with Thai company, and workpermit which covers all I do, and pay tax to thai revenue. This means I can hire on Thai Personal Assitant, and indeed other people as I need, but must important of all to me, I am 100% legal to do this re immigration/labour dept, so I have peace of mind too, can hold my head high, and also happy say I am contributing tax to the country that allows me to live here, so I am giving to the economy, and not just taking.

There are others who telework... that do not have work permits, their hiding out working from the house on the quiet, now that is Illegal, and if they are caught, they could be in serious trouble for not have work permit.

So do it legally and correct, is what I say.

Also I know people, who teach english, sort of as survival money to pay rent and food, and they make their real earnings importing goods of all sorts back to home countries.

[glenbat]

I too fell in love with the place (and girls) and have been back 4 times in 12 months, for a split second was weighing up ways of living there and making some money but a friend who owns a restaurant in Patts/Naklua said think about it, maybe have 4 or 5 months where it MAY be busy (over Xmas and April) and probably 7 months very quiet as theres a million and one bars in Patts.. everyone has to eat before they drink (even tho a lot of tourists look like all they do is drink) so probably a more steady income? Im no expert but it kinda makes sense. I've decided to make my millions back in the UK then retire to LOS and do very little

[theseveredhead]

This was a really bad idea that has become increasingly worse over the last five years due to: too many bars, lisc issues, rent rises and visa issues.

I am constantly astonished at the prices people want for their bars. In fact selling buying 99% of teh bars here to me seems insane. a fraction of one % could produce any sort of good will on the books and its all luck anyway according to sucess of that tourist season. In the end their bar is a few used tv's, a pool table and some glassware. Often ask millions of baht. It does often include their key money which they would otherwise never, ever get back.

Give me your money. I will return half of it in three years. You now think I am a mad con artist. You will thank me in three years and think me your best mate for life.

Put your money in a timed deposit, come and enjoy

Teaching English sucks, you must buy a certy to teach (B40k+)

Food - very bad margins, nearly as many restaurants as bars and personally at b20 and b25 a dish - I never eat in farang restaurants and neither do any of the locals I know personally.

In the years I have been here, these are best ideas I have come up with:

Bag storage and CHEAP saftey boxes in Central Pattaya (cheap and ez to run)

Consignment Shop for bar owners to dump their crap when the close their bars

Remember - Pattaya is for cheap charlie's so never do anything really nice or clever you won't win as we don't want to pay for it. This is Thailand and Thai's can make it work on their expectations. Farang come here and expect a small beer bar to pay for farang splash life incl girlfriend and it won't.

The rent alone is a killer. The chinese landlords are absolute gouger's - I always feel sorry when I see Thai's open a new business I know wil lfail miserably.

...I think I figured once that youd need to sell a ten beers an hour to break even or somethng like that...(?). Sound ez? what about low season which is now really, really low - DEAD. This means if you don't keep that pace you need to make it up so like.... 30 an hour, every hour in high season. Many bars have no customers even in high season.

One bar on my block... owner talking to person in my apt, makes about b300 (net/gross I don't know?) A NIGHT at present. Not surprised if she only has 2-3 cust and they have a beer or two and move on.

Edited July 26, 2007 by theseveredhead

[BROWNY]

cheers everyone you have really opened my eyes to the potential pitfalls here, I will probably look at something else now but I still am determined to eventually try and move over there I just need to find a different way of earning a stable income

I have heard a few times ...... "the best way to make a small fortune in Thailand is to start off with a large fortune ........"

But all successful businessmen must take have taken a risk at some point. Good luck !

[britmaveric]

Bad idea unless you can open a bar with a good location/great partners and a novel idea. (even this might not be enough) I'd keep your dosh at home - safer in the end.