The Observer view on Suella Braverman: a home secretary who undermines the police has no place in government

[CharlieH]

 

When political tensions are running high and there are risks to public order, any responsible politician would try to reduce the pressure, take advice from police on operational matters, and publicly urge calm. The home secretary, Suella Braverman, chose the populist road in the run-up to yesterday’s march in London to protest against Israel’s military action in Gaza: to throw caution to the wind, deploy inflammatory language and hint darkly at the worst-case scenarios that might take shape.

Braverman wrote her incendiary article in the Times in the knowledge that there was a fundamental disagreement between her and the commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Sir Mark Rowley, on policing strategy. She wanted yesterday’s march to be banned because it coincided with the solemnity of Armistice Day. But police powers to ban protests are – rightly – tightly proscribed by the Public Order Act: they can do so only if they believe that protesters will not comply with police restrictions and there could be serious public disorder, damage to property or disruption to the lives of the community.

 

The legal threshold for banning a march is rightly high

 

It is true that the marches in previous weeks have contained unsavoury elements: there have been a relatively small number of arrests, including for offences related to terrorism and inciting racial hatred. But the marches, involving hundreds of thousands of people, have been peaceful and complied with conditions imposed on them by the police. That is not to say that every marcher supports a peaceful two-state solution in the Middle East; some have adopted chants associated with the Hamas charter commitment to destroy Israel. There is no moral justification for doing so, and it understandably causes distress to many British Jews. Use of the chants should be condemned.

But this does not provide a legal justification for banning a protest, on which the great majority of marchers will have been horrified both by the appalling acts of terror committed by Hamas on 7 October as well as the huge number of Palestinian civilians being killed during Israeli assaults on Hamas in Gaza. The legal threshold for banning a march is rightly high – the last time this power was used was over a decade ago – and it is the responsibility of the police to assess whether it has been met and to apply for permission to ban it if they judge it has. It is not for the home secretary to interfere by applying political pressure on the police to ban a march she does not like.

That is exactly what Braverman has done. And by using incendiary terms like “hate marchers” and “mobs” to mischaracterise whole marches of many thousands of people who are legitimately exercising their democratic right to protest, she implicitly encouraged far-right protesters to come out to counter-demonstrate on Armistice Day. Come out they did: there were several skirmishes between the far right and the police in central London yesterday morning in the run-up to the two-minute silence, with masked men chanting Islamophobic slogans yards from the Cenotaph, and arrests were made. There were further violent clashes in the afternoon, and the police had to work hard to prevent far-right protesters from confronting the marchers.

 

FULL ARTICLE

 

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

It is true that the marches in previous weeks have contained unsavoury elements: there have been a relatively small number of arrests, including for offences related to terrorism and inciting racial hatred

Small number of arrests does not mean that there haven't been large number of incidents.

[Chomper Higgot]

I agree, there are on going developments that will give us some answers on her future.

 

She’s engaged in an unprecedented undermine of the police and inflaming tensions in the days before an already highly emotionally charged protest, an absolute first for a Hone Secretary.

 

She then published an article in breach of the ministerial code doubling down on her incitement of extremists. 

 

We then learned Sunak was dithering and delaying on a decision to fire her.

 

Next up the Police are attacked by rightwing extremists parroting Braverman’s accusations of bias.

 

Will Braverman now be fired?

 

The answer is, Grant Shapps makes statements in support of Braverman and Sunak mildly reprimands the rightwing thugs while omitting any praise or mark of gratitude to the police.

 

Braverman will be back in the news later this week when the Supreme Court is scheduled to hand down its ruling on her Rwanda Asylum Scheme.

 

If the SC  rules in her favour she gets a political boost, if the ruling comes down against her we’ll get a swift insight to her and the Tory Party direction.

 

My guess is an attack on the SC, and pushing calls for Government to be above the SC (above the law) with perhaps calls for the UK to leave the Council of Europe. 
 

Those pesky laws and human rights are a bit of a problem for a Home Secretary who wishes to act outside of and above the law.

 

 

This week is going to be very instructive.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Small number of arrests does not mean that there haven't been large number of incidents.

But it’s all you’ve got.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

But it’s all you’ve got.

Just watched a battle between these so called peace protesters between another set of loons, they were knocking the living daylights out of each other whilst being encircled by riot police, of course the police just looked on and did nothing, I'll see if I can dig it out for you, you should be as dismayed as I was. Policing 2023 style is no use nor ornament.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Just watched a battle between these so called peace protesters between another set of loons, they were knocking the living daylights out of each other whilst being encircled by riot police, of course the police just looked on and did nothing, I'll see if I can dig it out for you, you should be as dismayed as I was. Policing 2023 style is no use nor ornament.

Don’t bother sending your social media stuff to me, pass it to the police, or share it across whatever corner of the internet you went looking to find it.

 

Who knows, maybe a search algorithm has spotted your interests and is now feeding you that which it figures you want to see.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Wobblybob]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Don’t bother sending your social media stuff to me, pass it to the police, or share it across whatever corner of the internet you went looking to find it.

 

Who knows, maybe a search algorithm has spotted your interests and is now feeding you that which it figures you want to see.

 

 

Don't have to send my findings to the police they were there watching it, too much trouble for them to do their job and why do your job when you can get paid for doing nothing.

[Georgealbert]

29 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Just watched a battle between these so called peace protesters between another set of loons, they were knocking the living daylights out of each other whilst being encircled by riot police, of course the police just looked on and did nothing, I'll see if I can dig it out for you, you should be as dismayed as I was. Policing 2023 style is no use nor ornament.

Where you get, the non bias Stephen Christopher Yaxley-lennon., social media account?

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Georgealbert said:

Where you get, the non bias Stephen Christopher Yaxley-lennon., social media account?

Thanks for the reply George, I'll get back to you after I've deciphered it.🥴

[JonnyF]

A cowardly, politically biased police force that kowtows to a mob screaming anti-semitic slurs, calls for Jihad and the elimination of Israel has no right to police the UK.

[Georgealbert]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Thanks for the reply George, I'll get back to you after I've deciphered it.🥴

 

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Thanks for the reply George, I'll get back to you after I've deciphered it.🥴

Stephen Christopher Yaxley-lennon goes by the false name Tom Robinson, as he seems to be shamed by his own view.

[thaibeachlovers]

Time for that woman to be given the order of the boot and consigned to sorting paper clips in some dark Whitehall store room.

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

 

Stephen Christopher Yaxley-lennon goes by the false name Tom Robinson, as he seems to be shamed by his own view.

I did know that, but thanks for confirming it.🥴

[RayC]

Excellent article. 

 

It's hard to believe - and an extremely scary thought - that this woman might be leading the Tory party within the next 18 months. Hopefully, there are enough decent Tory MPs and members left to ensure that this doesn't happen.

[RayC]

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

A cowardly, politically biased police force that kowtows to a mob screaming anti-semitic slurs, calls for Jihad and the elimination of Israel has no right to police the UK.

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

 

As the article suggests, Braverman is doing the exact opposite of what a good, decent Home Secretary should do. Instead of supporting the police, she instead undermines them at every opportunity. 

 

Would you prefer the EDF vigilantes to be policing the streets of the UK?

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

A cowardly, politically biased police force that kowtows to a mob screaming anti-semitic slurs, calls for Jihad and the elimination of Israel has no right to police the UK.

Well they would have to be wouldn’t they.

 

Having dealt with the real threat of violence on the day from rightwing extremists out looking for a fight.

[RayC]

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Time for that woman to be given the order of the boot and consigned to sorting paper clips in some dark Whitehall store room.

 

Not that you can read this as you put me on 'Ignore' but I completely agree.

 

Second post of yours inside an hour with which I've agreed. 

 

World's going mad!

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Not that you can read this as you put me on 'Ignore' but I completely agree.

 

Second post of yours inside an hour with which I've agreed. 

 

World's going mad!

Count me in on that.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

 

As the article suggests, Braverman is doing the exact opposite of what a good, decent Home Secretary should do. Instead of supporting the police, she instead undermines them at every opportunity. 

 

Would you prefer the EDF vigilantes to be policing the streets of the UK?

 

When the police are politically biased they need to be called out for it. They need to shut down hate speech from both sides, and that includes anti-semitic, anti Israeli and pro Jihad hate speech from the Muslim community and the left wing extremist Antifa types.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

When the police are politically biased they need to be called out for it. They need to shut down hate speech from both sides, and that includes anti-semitic, anti Israeli and pro Jihad hate speech from the Muslim community and the left wing extremist Antifa types.

Or is it you with the political bias, parroting the latest set of extreme rightwing nonsense?

 

I get it, you, Yaxley Lennon and Braverman are telling the truth, the police and the media are all conspiring in one huge ‘big lie’.

 

Oh…. ‘The big lie’, where have we heard that before.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or is it you with the political bias, parroting the latest set of extreme rightwing nonsense?

 

I get it, you, Yaxley Lennon and Braverman are telling the truth, the police and the media are all conspiring in one huge ‘big lie’.

 

Oh…. ‘The big lie’, where have we heard that before.

 

 

Not all the media. There is some honest stuff out there. But yes, the reporting from left wing organizations such as The BBC and that rag The Guardian are creating a false narrative to demonize Israel and portray anyone who opposes anti-semitism as "far right".

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

Not all the media. There is some honest stuff out there. But yes, the reporting from left wing organizations such as The BBC and that rag The Guardian are creating a false narrative to demonize Israel and portray anyone who opposes anti-semitism as "far right".

Spoken like a true believer

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

When the police are politically biased they need to be called out for it. They need to shut down hate speech from both sides, and that includes anti-semitic, anti Israeli and pro Jihad hate speech from the Muslim community and the left wing extremist Antifa types.

 

Are all UK police forces politically motivated or just the Met? Where is the evidence to support this claim?

 

Please don't post images/ videos of individual officers 'taking a knee', posing with pro-Palestine demonstrators, etc. It proves nothing other than naivety and/or a lack of judgement on their part. 

 

What you and others need to do to support your claim is supply evidence that the Met and/or other forces are institutionally politically biased.

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Are all UK police forces politically motivated or just the Met? Where is the evidence to support this claim?

 

Please don't post images/ videos of individual officers 'taking a knee', posing with pro-Palestine demonstrators, etc. It proves nothing other than naivety and/or a lack of judgement on their part. 

 

What you and others need to do to support your claim is supply evidence that the Met and/or other forces are institutionally politically biased.

 

Well we saw in the north the police refusing to investigate Pakistani grooming gangs to avoid inflaming community tensions, so it is not just The Met, it is just more obvious with The Met because so much of the anti-semitism is displayed in London.

 

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/uk-police-ignored-grooming-gangs/

 

Asking for evidence of bias and then pre-empting the question by saying you won't accept videos and photographs of said bias as evidence is a bit disingenuous, no?

 

It's a bit like saying "show me evidence of a crime taking place in this room" and then saying "But don't expect me to accept the decapitated body, the blood splatter up the wall and the bloody machete as evidence".

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

police refusing to investigate Pakistani grooming gangs to avoid inflaming community tensions

The article you linked makes no such claim nor provides any evidence that the police failures arise from any attempt to ‘avoid inflaming community tensions’.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The article you linked makes no such claim nor provides no evidence that the police failures arise from any attempt to ‘avoid inflaming community tensions’.

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/?sh=758e9c55754a

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/?sh=758e9c55754a

I want you to provide evidence, not editorial opinion, to back your claim: 

 

37 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Well we saw in the north the police refusing to investigate Pakistani grooming gangs to avoid inflaming community tensions,

 

Focus on evidence the to avoid inflaming community tensions bit.

 

Evidence now Jonny.

 

A Home Office report might be a good start, and there is a Home Office Report.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Well we saw in the north the police refusing to investigate Pakistani grooming gangs to avoid inflaming community tensions, so it is not just The Met, it is just more obvious with The Met because so much of the anti-semitism is displayed in London.

 

https://europeanc

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Well we saw in the north the police refusing to investigate Pakistani grooming gangs to avoid inflaming community tensions, so it is not just The Met, it is just more obvious with The Met because so much of the anti-semitism is displayed in London.

 

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/uk-police-ignored-grooming-gangs/

 

The report found that GMP and other child protection agencies in Greater Manchester failed. Quite rightly, they were castigated. I cannot remember if any individuals were reprimanded but imo some heads should have rolled.

 

Nevertheless, there is nothing in the report that states that the actions of GMP were politically motivated as you suggest.

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Asking for evidence of bias and then pre-empting the question by saying you won't accept videos and photographs of said bias as evidence is a bit disingenuous, no?

 

It's a bit like saying "show me evidence of a crime taking place in this room" and then saying "But don't expect me to accept the decapitated body, the blood splatter up the wall and the bloody machete as evidence".

 

 

onservative.com/articles/news/uk-police-ignored-grooming-gangs/

 

No, it's nothing like that. I don't deny that individual police officers have engaged in political acts e.g. taking the knee, showing support for Palestine, etc 

 

However, if you then conclude from this that police authorities are institutionally politically bias then you are committing a logical fallacy: I've seen a white elephant but I don't believe all elephants are white.

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

 

[Wobblybob]

8 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 

The Tories have sacked the only true conservative in the party, now they deserve all that's coming to them, out of the ashes of this shower of wastrels maybe a new party could formed, Sunak has signed the signed his and the party's death warrant.