Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Language suspiciously similar to that used in a certain European country in the 1930s.

B.S. You know who he's referring to, enough with your lame attempt to bring in the Nazi's on this

[Bkk Brian]

47 minutes ago, Morch said:

Got to love how posters who take every chance to berate, denigrate and ridicule Biden now treat his words as gospel.

 

Again, civilians killed in wars is not necessarily a war crime. For it to be a war crime, a whole lot of legal conditions must be ticked. Until such a time an investigation is on, and until it's findings are published, appealed and so on, most of what people go on about here are opinions.

 

 

Those same posters will ignore what else he said yesterday, here a couple of snippets taken from another of his speech's:

 

"But most of all, we condemn Hamas’s using rape, sexual violence, terrorism, and torture of Israeli women and girls without equivocation, without exception. 

You know, they — I saw some of the photographs when I was there — tying a mother and her daughter together on a rope and then pouring kerosene on them and then burning them, beheading infants, doing things that are just inhuman — totally, completely inhuman."

 

 "Israel has a tough decision to make.  Bibi has got a tough decision to make.  There’s no question about the need to take on Hamas.  There’s no question about that.  None.  Zero.  They have every right."

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/12/12/remarks-by-president-biden-at-a-campaign-reception-5/

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Bkk Brian]

It really is as simple as this to end the war and to stop Hamas using every last Gazan as sacrifice, Israel at the UN yesterday

 

If the @UN wants this war to end, it should tell Hamas to surrender and return the hostages. Here’s the phone number. [+970 955373765]-SURRENDER-NOW 

 

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1734695754474889620

 

[Morch]

Watch: Reservists help lost Gazan child who fell asleep in IDF encampment

https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-reservists-help-lost-gazan-child-who-fell-asleep-in-idf-encampment/

(clip in link, scroll down)

 

Guess every war got such moments. Being a reserve unit, some of them would be dads.

And that handover scene - soldiers obviously worried about an ambush, Gazan driver also stressed about being shot.

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You would also make this expected comment, sure.

 

As posted, the WP clearly hedges and protects itself. Can always dump it on the freelancer, and issue a nothing correction as needed.

And you are obviously choosing to focus on one thing, disregarding the rest.

 

Hezbollah controls the area, and it's not an organization to mess with if you want to live and work in Lebanon, or let alone Southern Lebanon.

Where the fragments were retrieved from is not conclusive.

Read the post again.

Sure, the Washington Post is going to go way out on a limb for the sake of a headline? You think finger-pointing by the Washington Post after the fact is going to protect them and the 2 co-reporters from severe criticism? That's how the things work? Maybe in opposite world but not so much here on Planet Earth.

[Bkk Brian]

I'm, always wary of reports or evidence if supplied by local reporters in Gaza:

 

AP and CNN said on Thursday that they would no longer work with Mr Eslaiah, one of the freelance photographers, after HonestReporting posted a photo of Mr Eslaiah being kissed by Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader.

https://archive.ph/9bIbI

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/10/freelance-photographers-not-hamas-accomplices/

[Nick Carter icp]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Language suspiciously similar to that used in a certain European country in the 1930s.

 

  Terms like that have been used  by every side in every war about their enemies, it isn't a term just used by Nazis against Jews

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

 

The more you learn and know about anything, the more diverse and complex it becomes. 

 

So, yeah, sure, all Gazans think alike.  I would guess many are starting to question a lot of things. 

Really? I noticed that supporters of Israel cite the huge level of support for Hamas as reported by polling organizations as a reason not to be concerned about Gazans fate.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? I noticed that supporters of Israel cite the huge level of support for Hamas as reported by polling organizations as a reason not to be concerned about Gazans fate.

That's strange, I responded to a poster who was claiming everyone in Gaza supported Hamas and all abled bodied men actively assists or fights for them.

 

I put him right however and let him know its not 100% with one of those polls.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

That's strange, I responded to a poster who was claiming everyone in Gaza supported Hamas and all abled bodied men actively assists or fights for them.

 

I put him right however and let him know its not 100% with one of those polls.

I'm sure you think that has something to do with Rabas claims that the people of Gaza are lessening in their support of Hamas due to massive destruction from Israeli bombing. On the contrary. Which is not surprising. Mass bombing has never been a way to win over the hearts and mind of the civilian population.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-failed-bombing-campaign-gaza

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I'm sure you think that has something to do with Rabas claims that the people of Gaza are lessening in their support of Hamas due to massive destruction from Israeli bombing. On the contrary. Which is not surprising. Mass bombing has never been a way to win over the hearts and mind of the civilian population.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-failed-bombing-campaign-gaza

Nope, nothing to do with Rabas claim but to do with what you said:

 

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? I noticed that supporters of Israel cite the huge level of support for Hamas as reported by polling organizations as a reason not to be concerned about Gazans fate.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm sure you think that has something to do with Rabas claims that the people of Gaza are lessening in their support of Hamas due to massive destruction from Israeli bombing. On the contrary. Which is not surprising. Mass bombing has never been a way to win over the hearts and mind of the civilian population.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-failed-bombing-campaign-gaza

 I do wish that people would stop posting links that are behind paywalls

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

He does one liner Hamas condemnations now and then. Nothing as detailed or fiery as when addressing Israel's perceived sins.

And how many condemnations of Israel come from Wobblybob? Any?

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 I do wish that people would stop posting links that are behind paywalls

I do wish people would actually click on links before making claims about paywalls  But in case it doesn't work, here's how to legally bypass most paywalls. Copy the URL. Go to archive.today Paste the URL into the indicated field. Click on SAVE. It should take you to the page.

ANd here's a message I got from Foreigh Policy when I clicked on the link to this report

This one is on us.

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[CharlieH]

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[Morch]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Sure, the Washington Post is going to go way out on a limb for the sake of a headline? You think finger-pointing by the Washington Post after the fact is going to protect them and the 2 co-reporters from severe criticism? That's how the things work? Maybe in opposite world but not so much here on Planet Earth.

 

I take it you have much experience working with international press?

And, as pointed out two times by now, you keep ignoring everything else mentioned in my post.

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm sure you think that has something to do with Rabas claims that the people of Gaza are lessening in their support of Hamas due to massive destruction from Israeli bombing. On the contrary. Which is not surprising. Mass bombing has never been a way to win over the hearts and mind of the civilian population.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-failed-bombing-campaign-gaza

 

Less support for Hamas does not imply more enthusiasm toward Israel.

People are perfectly able to have negative feelings (of different sorts, even) vs. multiple targets, issues, people and so on.

This is not so much about hearts and minds, I think.

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? I noticed that supporters of Israel cite the huge level of support for Hamas as reported by polling organizations as a reason not to be concerned about Gazans fate.

 

Guess you missed @ozimoron's claims about 100% support for the Hamas.....

 

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And how many condemnations of Israel come from Wobblybob? Any?

 

Did @Wobblybob make a point about his position involving condemnation of both sides? I don't think so.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Guess you missed @ozimoron's claims about 100% support for the Hamas.....

 

What has that got to do with Rabas' claim that Israeli actions in  Gaza are making Gazans have second thoughts about Hamas? One bad comment deserves a dubious one?

[rabas]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? I noticed that supporters of Israel cite the huge level of support for Hamas as reported by polling organizations as a reason not to be concerned about Gazans fate.

 

I am not sure how that relates to the principle I cited, that overly simplistic views often arise from a lack of knowledge, and may also be a sign of propaganda.

 

But I do notice your claim seems a bit simplistic. Some poll means some bad guys hate Gazans. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by rabas

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Oh, I read the thing.

 

Note that this is not from a WP reporter, but a freelancer (mentioned in the article). Previously based in Jordan, nowadays in Lebanon. Most of his articles and columns on related issues are negative toward Israel, often broadcasting the other side's (be it Palestinian, Lebanese, Hezbollah etc.) points and positions. If not mistaken, currently mainly works for a Qatari owned, Palestinian run publication. Considering this involves Hezbollah, expecting him to be openly critical, weary or even objective regarding this is an choice. I think the WP is being careful, leaving some hedging room by stating the source.

 

As the area is controlled by Hezbollah (addressed in the article), reporters will see what Hezbollah allows them to see. There is no clear indication where the fragments were found, or even whether they relate to the current incident. Same goes for citizens' reports - do you think they are likely to go against Hezbollah? Again, a choice.

I should have known better than to trust your characterization of William Christou's reporting. Actually, his focus seems to be on Human Rights and corruption in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. He does have a few articles about Israel. But nothing strongly slanted. In fact, in one article he reports on a cease fire agreement between Israel and Hezbollah that was broken by...Hezbollah. At least, according to his reporting. Doesn't seem like he's in Hezbollah's pocket Here's a link to the articles that he's written for The New Arab.

https://www.newarab.com/author/67949/william-christou

I suspect that the Washington Post took him on for this story precisely because of the quality of his reporting. Not despite.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What has that got to do with Rabas' claim that Israeli actions in  Gaza are making Gazans have second thoughts about Hamas? One bad comment deserves a dubious one?

 

@rabas's post was made in response to @ozimoron's 100% support comment.

 

[Wobblybob]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And how many condemnations of Israel come from Wobblybob? Any?

What is there to condemn, Israel has a right to protect its citizens and also a right to live in peace. Hamas and the majority of the brainwashed Palestinians wont be happy untill all Jews are exterminated, many of the 'forgive Hamas and their followers' are totally oblivious to the ramifications of supporting these sadistic monsters.

Many of the 'terrorist' luvvies on here have to invent scenarios, lie and quote the terrorists themselves expecting normal posters to believe their gibberish witless posts, what draws you to side with terrorists.

[rabas]

30 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I do wish people would actually click on links before making claims about paywalls  But in case it doesn't work, here's how to legally bypass most paywalls. Copy the URL. Go to archive.today Paste the URL into the indicated field. Click on SAVE. It should take you to the page.

ANd here's a message I got from Foreigh Policy when I clicked on the link to this report

This one is on us.

You are currently enjoying a Foreign Affairs article. Get full access by subscribing.

 

Already a subscriber? Log in here.

 

I did. Why didn't you do that with your Wapost article?, which turned out to be of suspicious origin, thanks to one of our best analysts. 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I should have known better than to trust your characterization of William Christou's reporting. Actually, his focus seems to be on Human Rights and corruption in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. He does have a few articles about Israel. But nothing strongly slanted. In fact, in one article he reports on a cease fire agreement between Israel and Hezbollah that was broken by...Hezbollah. At least, according to his reporting. Doesn't seem like he's in Hezbollah's pocket Here's a link to the articles that he's written for The New Arab.

https://www.newarab.com/author/67949/william-christou

I suspect that the Washington Post took him on for this story precisely because of the quality of his reporting. Not despite.

 

Should have known how? I did not reference all his reporting, but specifically those pieces "on related issues". As in the issues we're discussing now. You can suspect what you like and put the guy on the pedestal, guess we have a different view on his articles. I did not say 'despite' by the way, that's your own addition. You are aware that the he is/was working freelance for  other venues, right?

 

Guess I should not expect you to address anything else.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Should have known how? I did not reference all his reporting, but specifically those pieces "on related issues". As in the issues we're discussing now. You can suspect what you like and put the guy on the pedestal, guess we have a different view on his articles. I did not say 'despite' by the way, that's your own addition. You are aware that the he is/was working freelance for  other venues, right?

 

Guess I should not expect you to address anything else.

And what are those pieces on related issues? Care to share a link?

And I don't think it would take much guesswork to reason that if his articles were as you described, the Washington Post wouldn't have used his services.

And it was you who raised the issue of his relation to Hezbollah:

"Considering this involves Hezbollah, expecting him to be openly critical, weary or even objective regarding this is an choice. "

 

[Nick Carter icp]

27 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In fact, in one article he reports on a cease fire agreement between Israel and Hezbollah that was broken by...Hezbollah. At least, according to his reporting. Doesn't seem like he's in Hezbollah's pocket

 

   That doesn't prove anything at all or show any affiliation's .

He is a reporter and he reported facts , had he reported something that wasn't factual, had he made something up and wrote that  , then any credible media outlet would have fired him for lying 

[placeholder]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That doesn't prove anything at all or show any affiliation's .

He is a reporter and he reported facts , had he reported something that wasn't factual, had he made something up and wrote that  , then any credible media outlet would have fired him for lying 

Please. It's pretty hard to establish facts in that kind of case. He could just have easily reported Israel claims this, Hezbollah claims that. But it's intriguing to see that you have such respect for his employer, The New Arab.

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Please. It's pretty hard to establish facts in that kind of case. He could just have easily reported Israel claims this, Hezbollah claims that. But it's intriguing to see that you have such respect for his employer, The New Arab.

 

   If all the other reporters and  media outlets are reporting that Hezbollah broke the ceasefire , he will appear to be rather incompetent if he reported something different ,

   Breaking a ceasefire with Israel would have been viewed favourably by people who want a war with Israel