German brands price

[Dewey]

Good morning,

 

There is something that bugs me about prices from BMW and Mercedes (probably same for Audi).

Let's take an example, BMW M340i, really great car (basically a cheap M3):

- USA price : 56K USD

- Thailand price: 4M THB (115k USD)

 

I thought for a long time that it was because of those stupid import tax but recently a team from BMW Rayong factory visited the company I worked for because they are looking for new suppliers so I asked them is they assembly this model in Rayong and they confirmed. Then I asked why was it twice the price then ? They seemed embarrassed and changed the subject.

 

Anyone know if there is some other taxes that might apply on this type of cars ? Or do they just try to make as much as they can out rich Thai people because it a "luxury" brand ?

 

Rant over..

[KhunBENQ]

Is the car also manufactured in the US?

List price in Germany is roughly 75000 EUR.

About 82000 USD, 2.9 million THB.

 

For the rest I only know that there is a significant sales tax that rises with the displacement. And a 3 liter engine is quite a thing here (compared to the US). 

6 cylinder limousines like the Toyota Camry are 2.5 liter only.

Edited November 27, 2023 by KhunBENQ
3 liter displacement

[JBChiangRai]

22 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Is the car also manufactured in the US?

List price in Germany is roughly 75000 EUR.

About 82000 USD, 2.9 million THB.

 

For the rest I only know that there is a significant sales tax that rises with the displacement. And a 3 liter engine is quite a thing here (compared to the US). 

6 cylinder limousines like the Toyota Camry are 2.5 liter only.

 

IIRC the Camry 2.5 is a 4 cylinder engine.

[Celsius]

So, US price with extra taxes delivery costs and other bs is over 2 million.

 

Thai price 4 mil.

 

The extra 2 million is to save Thai people from buying junk.

 

 

 

 

[Dewey]

26 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Is the car also manufactured in the US?

List price in Germany is roughly 75000 EUR.

About 82000 USD, 2.9 million THB.

 

For the rest I only know that there is a significant sales tax that rises with the displacement. And a 3 liter engine is quite a thing here (compared to the US). 

6 cylinder limousines like the Toyota Camry are 2.5 liter only.

 

you are right, I got mistaken on the price, 70/75k EUR seems to be the correct one for this model. It is still 30K more expensive in Thailand..

 

So for you it would be a big tax on the type of motorization ? 

[KhunBENQ]

23 minutes ago, Dewey said:

So for you it would be a big tax on the type of motorization ? 

35% sales tax is the number I find for a 3 liter.

Not completely explaining the difference.

[Gulfsailor]

The difference comes mostly from excise tax, which is levied on both imported and domestically manufactured vehicles. It’s the same with alcohol and cigarettes.

[Dewey]

6 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

35% sales tax is the number I find for a 3 liter.

Not completely explaining the difference.

 

well 35% is huge and explain most of the price difference. Thanks can you share any link about new car taxes ?

[VocalNeal]

48 minutes ago, Celsius said:

So, US price with extra taxes delivery costs and other bs is over 2 million.

 

Thai price 4 mil.

 

The extra 2 million is to save Thai people from buying junk.

 

 

 

The extra 2 million is the tax that Thai people haven't paid to be able to afford buying junk. FTFY

[KhunLA]

Don't know what the excise tax is for larger than 1.5L engines, but when the excise rebate was available 2011/12, we bought a Mazda 2 @ 515k baht, and got the max rebate available of 100k baht, so almost 20% of the MSRP.  Then the 7% VAT was still include in that price, so about 25% tax, just for a 1.5L engine, entry level, 'made in TH' vehicle.

 

Not even sure if the 100k rebate was the full excise tax, but the max available for rebates.

[Celsius]

25 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

The extra 2 million is the tax that Thai people haven't paid to be able to afford buying junk. FTFY

 

Yes. That is correct. Good point.

[Jitar]

Thai taxes on new cars are complex.  The link below shows how VAT, import duty and excise tax etc. are calculated. 

https://asiabusinessassembly.com/en/imported-cars-in-thailand/

The tax amount is larger than percentage rates suggest and includes tax on tax. 

However there are some import duty and excise tax concessions for Free Trade agreements and EVs. 

 

The BOI detail excise tax rates for different vehicle categories at:

https://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=tax_rates_and_double_taxation_agreements

 

In summary, there is a lot of tax on cars, unless a vehicle qualifies for concessions. 

 

[Dewey]

15 minutes ago, Jitar said:

Thai taxes on new cars are complex.  The link below shows how VAT, import duty and excise tax etc. are calculated. 

https://asiabusinessassembly.com/en/imported-cars-in-thailand/

The tax amount is larger than percentage rates suggest and includes tax on tax. 

However there are some import duty and excise tax concessions for Free Trade agreements and EVs. 

 

The BOI detail excise tax rates for different vehicle categories at:

https://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=tax_rates_and_double_taxation_agreements

 

In summary, there is a lot of tax on cars, unless a vehicle qualifies for concessions. 

 

 

Thanks for the informative link.

[daveAustin]

Doesn't the price go up significantly beyond a certain power output, something like 220HP? You could always send your kid over to the West ('to school') and have them bring one back... or did they close that particular loophole already? That, or get yourself a nice Toyota. ;-) Bought a PreRunner many moons ago and sold it three years later for more than I paid for it (currency fluctuations). 

[Dewey]

42 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Doesn't the price go up significantly beyond a certain power output, something like 220HP? You could always send your kid over to the West ('to school') and have them bring one back... or did they close that particular loophole already? That, or get yourself a nice Toyota. ;-) Bought a PreRunner many moons ago and sold it three years later for more than I paid for it (currency fluctuations). 

 

What do you mean, you can bring back your car if you studied in the west ? I don't have kids anyway so will not work for me :)
 

I have a Mazda 3 for the last 4 years, I will not go back with this brand, car looks good but I have so many issues since I pass the 50k mark so I will not go back to this brand. And to be honest I'm looking for a 300+HP to have fun while we still can and then I will switch to full electric car.

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Doesn't the price go up significantly beyond a certain power output, something like 220HP? You could always send your kid over to the West ('to school') and have them bring one back... or did they close that particular loophole already? That, or get yourself a nice Toyota. ;-) Bought a PreRunner many moons ago and sold it three years later for more than I paid for it (currency fluctuations). 

 

That study in the west and bring a car back after 2 years loop hole was closed a number of years ago. 

I know loads of Thai's who studied abroad...  this was never 'really' possible without the right connections and is something or an 'urban legend'.... 

 

Unfortunately - its Japanese for most people (although the price of the base tesla has dropped significantly.

 

The above posters (Dewey) comments just shows how mileage varies... We've had our Mazda for about 5 years now and its been incredibly reliable (just one issue - cracked engine mount, which was replaced after a little back and forth and poor service which is SOP in Thailand). 

 

Disappointingly - IMO the idea (non-pickup) cars in Thailand are the Fortuner or the Everest (not cars I want at all)....

 

German cars - I've had a couple in Thailand and they are better than the Japanese (no matter what the bias nay sayers suggest with a chip on their shoulder).. .but the extra price is very difficult to justify.

 

 

 

 

[JAS21]

You not only need to compare the model prices. Here both BMW and Merc come quite heavily loaded with extras, whereas in the UK,at least, the car comes basic and I can assure you the extras cost a lot ….but you do get to pick and choose what extras you want…here the car comes as is …little or no choice.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by JAS21

[Dewey]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That study in the west and bring a car back after 2 years loop hole was closed a number of years ago. 

I know loads of Thai's who studied abroad...  this was never 'really' possible without the right connections and is something or an 'urban legend'.... 

 

Unfortunately - its Japanese for most people (although the price of the base tesla has dropped significantly.

 

The above posters (Dewey) comments just shows how mileage varies... We've had our Mazda for about 5 years now and its been incredibly reliable (just one issue - cracked engine mount, which was replaced after a little back and forth and poor service which is SOP in Thailand). 

 

Disappointingly - IMO the idea (non-pickup) cars in Thailand are the Fortuner or the Everest (not cars I want at all)....

 

German cars - I've had a couple in Thailand and they are better than the Japanese (no matter what the bias nay sayers suggest with a chip on their shoulder).. .but the extra price is very difficult to justify.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, don't get me wrong, Mazda is still ok, I'm probably unlucky and got terrible after sale service from Mazda Bang Chak.. 

Agree as well for the price of German brands, it bugs me so much so it will be a second hand car for me.

 

If I had charging station in my condo I would buy a ByD Seal but I'll wait a few years before switching to full electric.

 

[Dewey]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

You not only need to compare the model prices. Here both BMW and Merc come quite heavily loaded with extras, whereas in the UK,at least, the car comes basic and I can assure you the extras cost a lot ….but you do get to pick and choose what extras you want…here the car comes as is …little or no choice.

 

 

 

Yes and it is the same for Japanese brand, take the Mazda 3 for example, in France you can chose between 4 or 5 engines, here you have 3 different model of mazda 3, engine are all the same, just a few different options between the 3 models (lights, parking camera) and that's it.. When I ask to pay for the Bose speaker option (which is the most premium model) on my model they refused...

Edited November 27, 2023 by Dewey

[arithai12]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

German cars - I've had a couple in Thailand and they are better than the Japanese (no matter what the bias nay sayers suggest with a chip on their shoulder)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course, your experience is based on models in a comparable class, like Mercedes and Lexus, right? Or are you saying that a multi-million german car is better than a 5 times cheaper japanese car?

[arithai12]

13 hours ago, Dewey said:

 

Yes and it is the same for Japanese brand, take the Mazda 3 for example, in France you can chose between 4 or 5 engines, here you have 3 different model of mazda 3, engine are all the same, just a few different options between the 3 models (lights, parking camera) and that's it.. When I ask to pay for the Bose speaker option (which is the most premium model) on my model they refused...

555, true. When I walked into a Honda dealer and said I was interested in a buying a car, the first question was "what color". Engine displacement and horse power would be the first things in Europe, here they care about video display and cup holders and top of the top if you can switch on the engine remotely so the aircon starts running before you get in.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, arithai12 said:

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

German cars - I've had a couple in Thailand and they are better than the Japanese (no matter what the bias nay sayers suggest with a chip on their shoulder)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course, your experience is based on models in a comparable class, like Mercedes and Lexus, right? Or are you saying that a multi-million german car is better than a 5 times cheaper japanese car?

 

Nope... I'm saying exactly what I said, without the exaggeration you implied. 

 

The German Cars (BMW's - Wife also had a Merc) were better than their Japanese counterparts.

 

And, you highlight your bias with your suggestion that they (German cars) are 5 times more expensive... They are not... 

 

Compare a BMW 5 series to a Honda Accord - the BMW is double, not five times the price. 

 

That said, while the BMW is undoubtedly better (IMO), I don't think it is worth double the Honda and for that reason, I purchased a Mazda which was exactly half the price of the German equivalent in the same class.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

18 hours ago, Dewey said:

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That study in the west and bring a car back after 2 years loop hole was closed a number of years ago. 

I know loads of Thai's who studied abroad...  this was never 'really' possible without the right connections and is something or an 'urban legend'.... 

 

Unfortunately - its Japanese for most people (although the price of the base tesla has dropped significantly.

 

The above posters (Dewey) comments just shows how mileage varies... We've had our Mazda for about 5 years now and its been incredibly reliable (just one issue - cracked engine mount, which was replaced after a little back and forth and poor service which is SOP in Thailand). 

 

Disappointingly - IMO the idea (non-pickup) cars in Thailand are the Fortuner or the Everest (not cars I want at all)....

 

German cars - I've had a couple in Thailand and they are better than the Japanese (no matter what the bias nay sayers suggest with a chip on their shoulder).. .but the extra price is very difficult to justify.

 

 

 

 

Expand  

 

Yeah, don't get me wrong, Mazda is still ok, I'm probably unlucky and got terrible after sale service from Mazda Bang Chak.. 

Agree as well for the price of German brands, it bugs me so much so it will be a second hand car for me.

 

If I had charging station in my condo I would buy a ByD Seal but I'll wait a few years before switching to full electric.

 

 

Early on, after making the purchase and picking up the car, we received terrible service from Mazda at Ekammai-65 - their after sales is poor (I've heard that of a lot of dealerships in Thailand - after the money has been spent, the underlying attitude seems to change)... when we complained to Mazda (a friend who works in Management there) he suggested we go to Mazda Ramintra who have been outstanding.

If someone (in Bangkok) is looking at Mazda - definitely consider going to the Ramintra showroom.

 

(it seems Mazda are aware of the flaws at Mazda Suk 65 but don't do too much about it as they are ran like franchises)....

 

Our CX-5 will soon be 5 years old (I think).. I'm looking at the possibility of a change and wondering what Mazda will bring out again (an electric CX-8 would be great)... 

We're also looking at the KIA Carnival so we can use it like a van, throw bikes in the back etc... an EV version of that would leave me with little doubt....   (wife drives, I can sit in the back and enjoy a beer !!!)... 

 

 

 

[digbeth]

A part of it is 'bonded manufacturing' even though they're made in Rayong, the origin is still EU if it were to be sold in Thailand it would have to be 'imported' into Thailand, a visit to the various industrial estate would see custom gates sprinkled about, From Ducatis to Triumph and BMWs, so the only savings over wholly imported cars are the labour used in the assembly

 

even if those manufacturer were to made a car in Thailand from scratch and not classify as 'imports' they wouldn't sell it too cheaply to undercut their other imported models

 

look at BMWs and Volvos EV models from China where they got 0% tariff, they won't lower the price too much as they have same model with petrol engine that's got the import tax

[Peterphuket]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:50 AM, Dewey said:

Good morning,

 

There is something that bugs me about prices from BMW and Mercedes (probably same for Audi).

Let's take an example, BMW M340i, really great car (basically a cheap M3):

- USA price : 56K USD

- Thailand price: 4M THB (115k USD)

 

I thought for a long time that it was because of those stupid import tax but recently a team from BMW Rayong factory visited the company I worked for because they are looking for new suppliers so I asked them is they assembly this model in Rayong and they confirmed. Then I asked why was it twice the price then ? They seemed embarrassed and changed the subject.

 

Anyone know if there is some other taxes that might apply on this type of cars ? Or do they just try to make as much as they can out rich Thai people because it a "luxury" brand ?

 

Rant over..

The manufacturer adjusts the price according to the country it exports to.

[rimmae2]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:22 AM, JAS21 said:

You not only need to compare the model prices. Here both BMW and Merc come quite heavily loaded with extras, whereas in the UK,at least, the car comes basic and I can assure you the extras cost a lot ….but you do get to pick and choose what extras you want…here the car comes as is …little or no choice.

 

 

Good comment; people ignore this. I have purchased 3 BMW coupes new in Thailand and the only choice I have had is to add or change things such as different wheels all at more cost.