Whats The Best 12"notebook?

[cdnvic]

Jeez Firefoxx, calm down and take a valium.

Your posts get more bizarre everyday.

[Prakanong]

What you are really comparing are operating systems anyways. The inside part are virtually identical now anyways.

Absolutely false. You can run Windows on a Mac but not OSx on a PC. The Macs have consistent quality hardware.

Macs are made for people who don’t understand computers and need them to do everything automatically.

That must be why most industry professionals I know use them.

Macs economic strategy is to continue to upgrade applications and the OS to massive proportions so that a Mac user is forced to upgrade to a new computer every couple of years.

Windows tries to do this too, but their releases keep being delayed.

OK I will bite

Most industry professionals use them?

IT Profesionals in general or a specific branch?

I work in the industry and I dare say you would call me a IT Professional - started in PC support through system analyst to Biz analyst to PC and Network Manager of very large site - back to consulting/freelance and now a manager of IT for a very large MNC for a region - my tech skills are pretty piss poor now though outside a very specialist area related to an industry sector

I do not know that "Most" it professionals i come across use them - in my experience the minority but some mac zealots

At trhe large site where I had 3000+ PC's and 50+ severs I had to remove the macs from the last few dozen users and make them use PC's - you would think I wanted to sacrifice their children to satan

Edited July 19, 2007 by Prakanong

[cdnvic]

Actually, I'm going on my own experience. Most of the IT guys in our company use Macbooks because they can run OSx, as well as Windows and Linux (via Parallels) off a single Machine. I have to keep hearing their smug mactalk too

Edited July 19, 2007 by cdnvic

[Prakanong]

Actually, I'm going on my own experience. Most of the IT guys in our company use Macbooks because they can run OSx, as well as Windows and Linux (via Parallels) off a single Machine. I have to keep hearing their smug mactalk too

I think more of the techies here mess about with Linux.

Making a corporate purchasing decision and a personal one is a bit different though - reading a Leslie de Chernatony (probably top UK guy on Branding) piece about how Managers of IT buy on branding issues not just performance or functionality (lots of CV enhancing too though he acknowledges)

[rambling]

Have a look at the new Dell XPS1330. Looks like an awesome machine for the size / specs.

Actually, I'm going on my own experience. Most of the IT guys in our company use Macbooks because they can run OSx, as well as Windows and Linux (via Parallels) off a single Machine. I have to keep hearing their smug mactalk too

I think more of the techies here mess about with Linux.

Making a corporate purchasing decision and a personal one is a bit different though - reading a Leslie de Chernatony (probably top UK guy on Branding) piece about how Managers of IT buy on branding issues not just performance or functionality (lots of CV enhancing too though he acknowledges)

[bendix]

Macs are made for people who don’t understand computers and need them to do everything automatically.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You're criticising a computer because . . ummm . .it's easy to use and intuitive? Perhaps I'm missing the point but i thought that would be a good thing.

OP . buy a Mac.

[canuckamuck]

I agree the point is a bit convoluted Bendix I actually promote the Mac platform for those with limited experience. What I was saying was there is a point when automatic functions can be a hindrance, especially when your computer begins to makes assumptions for you.

Any Microsoft user is familiar with the eager beaver program Word, which loves to rearrange your paragraphs and drops in numbers and tabs for you even if you don’t want them.

Well that sort of do it for you approach is a built in feature in a Mac OS. It is kind of like HAL in 2001 a Spaceship Odyssey.

For many people it is a benefit, for others it is a nuisance. I own both But the Macbook is only for video editing.

All graphics work is done on the pc.

[nikster]

I agree the point is a bit convoluted Bendix I actually promote the Mac platform for those with limited experience. What I was saying was there is a point when automatic functions can be a hindrance, especially when your computer begins to makes assumptions for you.

Any Microsoft user is familiar with the eager beaver program Word, which loves to rearrange your paragraphs and drops in numbers and tabs for you even if you don’t want them.

Well that sort of do it for you approach is a built in feature in a Mac OS. It is kind of like HAL in 2001 a Spaceship Odyssey.

For many people it is a benefit, for others it is a nuisance. I own both But the Macbook is only for video editing.

All graphics work is done on the pc.

Heh - all ninjas I know use Macs. I have recently joined them. Two reasons, mostly:

- We like it when things work

- We like to have a real command line / unix

Macs are not simple - rather, Windows is unnecessarily complicated. I feel that I am pretty deep into both Windows and OS X to be able to say that. I fix everyone's Windows machines in a 5km radius here where I live. Easy for me, but people are not able to fix things themselves. They generally tune out at the second properties->advanced dialog. It's just too hard, and it makes no sense whatsoever.

I think the thing with "automatic functions" as you call them is quite the opposite. That philosophy was followed by Mac OS 10 years ago, but not now. It is a mistake to believe that dumbing things down makes them easier - look no further than Windows Vista for a prime example of this. "Helpful" wizards pop up on every corner, and none of them do what you want.

Good user interface design is clean, simple, consistent, and intuitive. It's hard to do - Apple just happens to do a really good job on it.

I am perfectly able to use Windows, and have for years (work reasons). But the friction when working with Windows is a lot higher than with OS X. By friction I mean things that come in between me and the things I want to get done. We techies are impatient people ...

Edited July 19, 2007 by nikster

[jackr]

Know a few people who have had screen problems with their Acers.

Stay away from Acer. My screen went (Aspire) followed by the hard drive and battery. HDD on it's way again by the looks. My four-year old Toshiba Satellite knocks it on its ass.

I hear Dell are pretty good nowadays with excellent service record.

[thohts]

I used to use a Mac and PC laptop side-by-side for work. The Mac was always having problems and crashing. Same for 2 of my co-workers (who were Mac fanatics, but didn't care that their computers actually sucked).

Too bad Apple has a very noisy fanbase more focused on what's "cool" that practical.

I recommend the Asus S6F, which is a work of art. Sure, you pay more for the leather trim but it's a very well-made machine. It's a bit smaller than 12" but the screen resolution is excellent. I used to have the ~12" Acer but it started giving me problems after a year or so. The Asus works like a charm.

[Gary A]

I have a Lenovo T43p Thinkpad. I have had it about a year now and I think it is an impressive machine. It has all the bells and whistles built in with a 7,200 RPM 100 gig hard drive, Video Memory 128 MB and a gig of RAM.

[rambling]

Agree with the comment on Mac OS. I use both as well, not clear to me what all the fanboys are going gaga about. It's got plenty of issues of it's own and in my opinion is just like a fancy looking Linux distro.

I used to use a Mac and PC laptop side-by-side for work. The Mac was always having problems and crashing. Same for 2 of my co-workers (who were Mac fanatics, but didn't care that their computers actually sucked).

Too bad Apple has a very noisy fanbase more focused on what's "cool" that practical.

I recommend the Asus S6F, which is a work of art. Sure, you pay more for the leather trim but it's a very well-made machine. It's a bit smaller than 12" but the screen resolution is excellent. I used to have the ~12" Acer but it started giving me problems after a year or so. The Asus works like a charm.

[nikster]

There was probably something wrong with your Mac. Macs do not in general "always have problems and crash", that's for sure.

But the OS wars are really from another decade. If you like windows, fine, good for you. Yey for Windows!

Don't assume, however, that we choose style over function just because we are blessed with the best looking machines. It's a nice add-on, for sure, but would be worthless without the practical aspects.

To give you one example, I use Eclipse for programming. I can do a full rebuild - hundreds of thousands of files - on my high end Windows laptop in 1 minute 40s. I can do the same on my MacBook Pro in 20 seconds. The hardware is comparable - the Mac has the same hard disk and a 10% faster processor. But quite apparently, the disk cache in OS X beats the panties off of the one in Windows. It's not better hardware, it's smarter software.

PS: Asus does make some solid hardware, seems like all Asus owners are very happy with theirs.

I used to use a Mac and PC laptop side-by-side for work. The Mac was always having problems and crashing. Same for 2 of my co-workers (who were Mac fanatics, but didn't care that their computers actually sucked).

Too bad Apple has a very noisy fanbase more focused on what's "cool" that practical.

I recommend the Asus S6F, which is a work of art. Sure, you pay more for the leather trim but it's a very well-made machine. It's a bit smaller than 12" but the screen resolution is excellent. I used to have the ~12" Acer but it started giving me problems after a year or so. The Asus works like a charm.

[Clipped]

whats the specs for your non mac laptop nikster?

if im not mistaken the mac uses a core duo 2 also?

[sjaak327]

Actually, I'm going on my own experience. Most of the IT guys in our company use Macbooks because they can run OSx, as well as Windows and Linux (via Parallels) off a single Machine. I have to keep hearing their smug mactalk too

Right, of course you could do that on a Pc Laptop as well. I know running OSX on such hardware technically isn't legal, but that's not stopping us really.

The reason why those IT guys need to run windows, is that they wouldn't be able to administer their Active Directory domains from OSX.

I agree that OSX is a nice OS. But I prefer Xp/Vista, and I wouldn't dream of having just OSX, because that would mean I couldn't do my job, it's as simple as that.

For a normal non technical user that runs a laptop in a home situation as opposed to a corporate network, the choice between the two becomes easier, but I see the OP didn't want to have Mac suggested, therefore it's strange that people still recommend them. I would like to have a mac book just for the fun of it, but if I would have to use it as my main (or only) laptop, then there's no doubt or competition, I would buy a nice Dell Lattitude or Inspiron. You simply get more preformance for your money. And when running Vista you have a much wider choice of running additional software, and more choice of hardware.

[vett]

This beauty

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/p...;l=en&s=dhs

Unfortunatly you would have to get it outside Thailand, ie in HK, since as I understood Dell does not sell to private persons in Thailand

//Vett

[Gary A]

Off topic a bit, but can the Apple fans tell me why the Safari browser is such a piece of crap? I have tried most of the browsers and found that Safari is the absolute worst.

[cdnvic]

I think all integrated browsers suck (IE, Safari, Konqueror).

Most Mac users I know have switched to Firefox.

[nikster]

Off topic a bit, but can the Apple fans tell me why the Safari browser is such a piece of crap? I have tried most of the browsers and found that Safari is the absolute worst.

You mean on Windows? Safari on Windows is beta and very buggy.

Safari 3 on the Mac - I like it but mainly because whenever something goes wrong I switch to Firefox instantly and things work there Seriously, Apple's efforts would be much better spent on improving the Mac version of Firefox.

Safari is very pretty, but endlessly quirky as well. It does things much more elegantly than firefox but all that elegance is wasted when websites don't work, or it freaks out and uses 450MB of memory... as happened to me recently. I guess Safari suffers from in-breeding and the NIH syndrome. It was very good when it first came out but since then it's deteriorated.

I am very happy to have Firefox

[nikster]

....You simply get more preformance for your money....

hey, i liked your post right up to that sentence - i don't get it, why post things that are simply not factually true?

i mean use windows all you want, good for you, but don't just post things that aren't true. you job depends on windows, clearly you have no choice, and as I have done myself for the last few years WinXP is just fine.

but these "hey, the cheapest piece of junk PC I could find online is a ton cheaper than a MacBook Pro" kinda comments are silly. you get what you pay for. if you compare to high end PC laptops Macs are competitively priced.

back on topic, this 12" toshiba looks really nice

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/20/toshiba...s-fcc-approval/

[Youbloodybeauty]

...so i wuld like to get a lighter

If you want light

http://www.hothardware.com/articles/Hands_...SUS_Eee/?page=1

Display: 7"

Processor: Intel mobile CPU (Intel 910 chipset, 900MHz Dothan Pentium M)

Memory: 512MB RAM

OS: Linux (Asus customized flavor)

Storage: 8GB or 16GB flash hard drive

Webcam: 300K pixel video camera

Battery life: 3 hours using 4-cell battery

Weight: 2lbs

Dimensions: 8.9 in x 6.5 in x 0.82 in - 1.37 in (width x depth x thickness)

Ports: 3 USB ports, 1 VGA out, SD card reader, modem, Ethernet, headphone out, microphone in

Price: Base US$250, configurable up to US$500

YBB

Edited July 21, 2007 by Youbloodybeauty

[tjo o tjim]

Macs are made for people who don’t understand computers and need them to do everything automatically.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You're criticising a computer because . . ummm . .it's easy to use and intuitive? Perhaps I'm missing the point but i thought that would be a good thing.

OP . buy a Mac.

Ironically, many of the Mac people I know (myself included) like OSX because of its Unix base-- there are some times that using the shell (command line/terminal) is just easier. Of course you don't have to mess with it if you don't want to, but it sure is nice to have the flexibility. Linux works and all... but graceful it isn't.

[kat]

Dell have recently brought out several 12&14 inch laptops with Vista Ultimate operating systems. They're all in the 40-60,000 Baht price bracket but they're sleek and have great spec. One of my friend's recently sold his small Sony Vaio after having a whole range of problems with it. I used it for a while too and would suggest you proceed with caution if you are considering buying one. If gaming purposes is high on your list then I would definately try out the latest Dell's & Acers.

Know a few people who have had screen problems with their Acers.

Actually, I'm going on my own experience. Most of the IT guys in our company use Macbooks because they can run OSx, as well as Windows and Linux (via Parallels) off a single Machine. I have to keep hearing their smug mactalk too

Right, of course you could do that on a Pc Laptop as well. I know running OSX on such hardware technically isn't legal, but that's not stopping us really.

The reason why those IT guys need to run windows, is that they wouldn't be able to administer their Active Directory domains from OSX.

I agree that OSX is a nice OS. But I prefer Xp/Vista, and I wouldn't dream of having just OSX, because that would mean I couldn't do my job, it's as simple as that.

For a normal non technical user that runs a laptop in a home situation as opposed to a corporate network, the choice between the two becomes easier, but I see the OP didn't want to have Mac suggested, therefore it's strange that people still recommend them. I would like to have a mac book just for the fun of it, but if I would have to use it as my main (or only) laptop, then there's no doubt or competition, I would buy a nice Dell Lattitude or Inspiron. You simply get more preformance for your money. And when running Vista you have a much wider choice of running additional software, and more choice of hardware.

I just did exactly this, and I'm quite happy.

I got the Inspirion e1405, Intel® Duo, T2350 2MB/1.86 GHz/533 MHZ, 14" True Life screen, 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2, and a Media Accelerator 950 GM, Windows Vista Home Premium, for about $1100 USD. I don't know what that is in TB anymore.

I'm quite happy, although it is brand new. I plan to use it for home, freelance work, and possibly graphic-dense blogging/web building.

How did I do guys?

*(I someone who had a screen problem with their Acer, too, SB).

Edited July 22, 2007 by kat

[cdnvic]

I just did exactly this, and I'm quite happy.

I got the Inspirion e1405, Intel® Duo, T2350 2MB/1.86 GHz/533 MHZ, 14" True Life screen, 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2, and a Media Accelerator 950 GM, Windows Vista Home Premium, for about $1100 USD. I don't know what that is in TB anymore.

I'm quite happy, although it is brand new. I plan to use it for home, freelance work, and possibly graphic-dense blogging/web building.

How did I do guys?

*(I someone who had a screen problem with their Acer, too, SB).

I added a GB of DDR2 (for a total of 2) memory and it really improved VHP's performance.

[backflip]

The OP asked about 12" notebooks, and he's been getting repsonses about anything but. Apple deos not have a notebook with a 12" screen - they used to have one, but no longer. Dell had a couple models, and now it's down to the Latitude D430 - nice and compact. If the OP would consider 13" and 14" products, there are quite a few to choose from. The new HP Pavillion products are slick.

[cdnvic]

The OP asked about 12" notebooks, and he's been getting repsonses about anything but. Apple deos not have a notebook with a 12" screen

No, but the Macbooks are similar in overall size to the 12" models from Sony and others.

[tezzainoz]

each to their Own

All I need to add is that this topic is not about the hardware but the software

And only Apple Hardware will run XP Vista and OS X so there is no real question which hardware to buy

On the hardware side

I have been a Service Manager for Apple (traines in the USA) but worked in Australia for over 10 years,

I know live in Pattaya and do private Apple service and repairs, so if your having toubles and need farang help Ping Me

Sorry I repair Mac's Only

My Thai Lady will not let me repair PCs they need to much attention and call back help, fix a Mac and you never hear from the owner again

[nidge]

###### mac users...lol

seriously i dont want a mac...i dont see the benefit

Macbook for sure, if you don't see the benefits perhaps you are not looking. I would prefer to go back to a pocket calculator rather than use windows again.

[BritTim]

Contenders if Macs are out and you are looking for quality:

Dell D420

Lenovo Thinkpad X Series

Toshiba M500-1400X

I would suggest you also get a port replicator with big LCD monitor, keyboard and mouse for when you are at home base. If you have never had this, it is hard to explain why it adds so much convenience and comfort. Just pull the notebook out, click it into the port replicator and (without messing with any cables including power cables) off you go with a setup as comfortable as a high quality desktop.

Do not skimp on RAM (get 2GB). Bonus if the machine has an eSATA port.