American warship, multiple commercial vessels come under attack in Red Sea

[Hawaiian]

On 12/11/2023 at 5:21 PM, Morch said:

 

A few more ships hit until things will be addressed, unless there's some major disaster involved.

Also, it's almost Christmas and New Year's Eve - many diplomatic efforts will be put on halt until beginning/mid January.

Since you posted this things have really escalated.  More commercial vessels have been fired upon with several being hit.

The second and fifth ranked shipping companies, Maersk and Hapag-Lloyd, have halted further shipping through the Red Sea/Suez Canal.  This not only affects Israel, but also a host of countries relying on this route. 

The U.S. and at least three of her allies are patrolling the area with more countries planning to get involved.  This is serious, folks.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

Since you posted this things have really escalated.  More commercial vessels have been fired upon with several being hit.

The second and fifth ranked shipping companies, Maersk and Hapag-Lloyd, have halted further shipping through the Red Sea/Suez Canal.  This not only affects Israel, but also a host of countries relying on this route. 

The U.S. and at least three of her allies are patrolling the area with more countries planning to get involved.  This is serious, folks.

Why is the israeli navy not going to join in, or are they? after all, this is about them and their attacks on Gaza.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is the israeli navy not going to join in, or are they? after all, this is about them and their attacks on Gaza.

A few days ago I read they had a sub there.  Not sure if anything else has been added.  From my navy experience I would say they working together with the U.S. forces there.  U.S. carriers never operate without an accompanying sub and other surface vessels.  I was stationed on a radar picket destroyer and we often pulled plane guard duty.

If things really heat up the most likely scenario is a joint task force will be formed with allied ships.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

A few days ago I read they had a sub there.  Not sure if anything else has been added.  From my navy experience I would say they working together with the U.S. forces there.  U.S. carriers never operate without an accompanying sub and other surface vessels.  I was stationed on a radar picket destroyer and we often pulled plane guard duty.

If things really heat up the most likely scenario is a joint task force will be formed with allied ships.

To remove any ambiguity, the U.S. carrier has its own sub escort and the Israelis are most likely doing recon.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is the israeli navy not going to join in, or are they? after all, this is about them and their attacks on Gaza.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

How do you know they are not?

 

Besides, it's almost standard for Israel not to be officially involved in such things, as it causes political troubles for potential Arab participants.

 

And no, this is about the Houthis taking international maritime trade hostage.

 

 

[Hawaiian]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

How do you know they are not?

 

Besides, it's almost standard for Israel not to be officially involved in such things, as it causes political troubles for potential Arab participants.

 

And no, this is about the Houthis taking international maritime trade hostage.

 

 

Israeli warship deployed to the Red Sea.

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/12/israel-sends-new-advanced-saar-6-warship-to-red-sea/

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Israeli warship deployed to the Red Sea.

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/12/israel-sends-new-advanced-saar-6-warship-to-red-sea/

 

Thank you. I'm sure @thaibeachlovers will soon come up with some complaint about this escalating things, or why wasn't the entire Israeli navy deployed, or something.

[Hawaiian]

36 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Thank you. I'm sure @thaibeachlovers will soon come up with some complaint about this escalating things, or why wasn't the entire Israeli navy deployed, or something.

Some people are never happy unless they are making waves.  Besides, you and I know,  Israel has a Mediterranean coastline to defend.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Some people are never happy unless they are making waves.  Besides, you and I know,  Israel has a Mediterranean coastline to defend.

LOL. Defend against whom, exactly? Are they not mainly engaged in stopping Gazans fishing and such like important stuff? Oh and blowing up Palestinian houses with Palestinian children in them, of course. It's good to see a navy being gainfully employed..

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Defend against whom, exactly? Are they not mainly engaged in stopping Gazans fishing and such like important stuff? Oh and blowing up Palestinian houses with Palestinian children in them, of course. It's good to see a navy being gainfully employed..

You don't have to be a graduate of the U.S. Naval War College to know it pays to be prepared for anything.  Perhaps your training to be prepared for the next war was to get ready for the next Maori uprising.  Seems the protests are gaining steam.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-naval-forces-thwart-hamas-attempted-invasion-by-sea-idf-video-shows

Looks like more than innocent fishermen were involved here.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

You don't have to be a graduate of the U.S. Naval War College to know it pays to be prepared for anything.  Perhaps your training to be prepared for the next war was to get ready for the next Maori uprising.  Seems the protests are gaining steam.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-naval-forces-thwart-hamas-attempted-invasion-by-sea-idf-video-shows

Looks like more than innocent fishermen were involved here.

Agree they have to stay on their toes.

But the IDF is not the most reliable of sources. And the report is from October, way from before the present issues from the Houti attacks arose.

This distraction could be an excellent opportunity for Hamas to try again though.

[Hawaiian]

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Agree they have to stay on their toes.

But the IDF is not the most reliable of sources. And the report is from October, way from before the present issues from the Houti attacks arose.

This distraction could be an excellent opportunity for Hamas to try again though.

 

 

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

 

Doesn't make sense for Hamas to attack now.  The October incident was part of the Oct. 7 invasion. Right now Hamas is too busy fending off the IDF. And since there have been no more incidents  reported it indicates Israeli vigilance is paying off. The Israelis have 6 state of the art Saar 6 warships and 5 modern subs with a more advanced one on the way.  I would say quite sufficient for now.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

 

 

Doesn't make sense for Hamas to attack now.  The October incident was part of the Oct. 7 invasion. Right now Hamas is too busy fending off the IDF. And since there have been no more incidents  reported it indicates Israeli vigilance is paying off. The Israelis have 6 state of the art Saar 6 warships and 5 modern subs with a more advanced one on the way.  I would say quite sufficient for now.

Good someone understands Hamas' strategy. Did you offer your advice to Israeli military leadership?

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

 

 

Doesn't make sense for Hamas to attack now.  The October incident was part of the Oct. 7 invasion. Right now Hamas is too busy fending off the IDF. And since there have been no more incidents  reported it indicates Israeli vigilance is paying off. The Israelis have 6 state of the art Saar 6 warships and 5 modern subs with a more advanced one on the way.  I would say quite sufficient for now.

"Fending off the IDG" ? What actions have the Israelis taken against the Houthis that make "fending off" necessary?

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Fending off the IDG" ? What actions have the Israelis taken against the Houthis that make "fending off" necessary?

Maybe first read the post before responding?

[Danderman123]

We are going to see counter battery fire soon.

[Hawaiian]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Good someone understands Hamas' strategy. Did you offer your advice to Israeli military leadership?

No, I am not qualified, but evidently you think you are.

 

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Maybe first read the post before responding?

Could be he feels he is being left out of the discussion and rushes in without thinking.  And I thought it was the IDF you and I were discussing.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

No, I am not qualified, but evidently you think you are.

<Snip>

You're the one making their strategy claims, I am not. 

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You're the one making their strategy claims, I am not. 

You may be confusing me with another poster.  What I posted is not strategy, but just plain common sense.  I would think it would be logical if Hamas is being hounded and pounded in Gaza why send send some of their troops back into Israel.  For what?  What would that accomplish?  Can't make it any plainer than that.

Remember, you were the one who made the first wise ass remark.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

We are going to see counter battery fire soon.

I have absolutely no idea of what that means, speaking as someone that actually was in the military. Counter implies against a target- are you saying the allied navies are going to sail to Yemen and open fire on Houthis on land.

Battery implies a group of artillery, but the Houthis are not firing artillery at the ships.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Defend against whom, exactly? Are they not mainly engaged in stopping Gazans fishing and such like important stuff? Oh and blowing up Palestinian houses with Palestinian children in them, of course. It's good to see a navy being gainfully employed..

 

The 7/10 attack saw Hamas trying to enter Israel from the sea as well. That wasn't even the first time. And exposing Hamas capabilities during the Israeli offensive, turned out they had some nasty surprises in store (in terms of gear and armaments). Again, underestimation on Israel's side - seems like you're advocating more of this.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have absolutely no idea of what that means, speaking as someone that actually was in the military. Counter implies against a target- are you saying the allied navies are going to sail to Yemen and open fire on Houthis on land.

Battery implies a group of artillery, but the Houthis are not firing artillery at the ships.

 

So you opened a dictionary of military terms and you're nitpicking. Well done.

In the simplest terms, they will probably be hit, one way or another.

As there is already quite an international naval presence in the region, it's more a question of diplomacy than means.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have absolutely no idea of what that means, speaking as someone that actually was in the military. Counter implies against a target- are you saying the allied navies are going to sail to Yemen and open fire on Houthis on land.

Battery implies a group of artillery, but the Houthis are not firing artillery at the ships.

Counter-battery fire (sometimes called counter-fire) is a battlefield tactic employed to defeat the enemy's indirect fire elements (multiple rocket launchers, artillery and mortars), including their target acquisition, as well as their command and control components. Counter-battery arrangements and responsibilities vary between nations but involve target acquisition, planning and control, and counter-fire. Counter-battery fire rose to prominence in World War I.

 

 

 

Note: there was counter battery fire at Gettysburg in 1863.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Counter-battery fire (sometimes called counter-fire) is a battlefield tactic employed to defeat the enemy's indirect fire elements (multiple rocket launchers, artillery and mortars), including their target acquisition, as well as their command and control components. Counter-battery arrangements and responsibilities vary between nations but involve target acquisition, planning and control, and counter-fire. Counter-battery fire rose to prominence in World War I.

 

 

 

Note: there was counter battery fire at Gettysburg in 1863.

Seems there is a lot of counter battery fire going on on this forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/18/2023 at 8:13 PM, Danderman123 said:

Counter-battery fire (sometimes called counter-fire) is a battlefield tactic employed to defeat the enemy's indirect fire elements (multiple rocket launchers, artillery and mortars), including their target acquisition, as well as their command and control components. Counter-battery arrangements and responsibilities vary between nations but involve target acquisition, planning and control, and counter-fire. Counter-battery fire rose to prominence in World War I.

 

 

 

Note: there was counter battery fire at Gettysburg in 1863.

Excellent deflection, but none of it addressed the question I asked of you.

 

BTW, the sort of missiles the Houthis are firing are not included in your cut and paste, so the entire quote is irrelevant.

[thaibeachlovers]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/us-announces-10-nation-force-to-counter-houthi-attacks-in-red-sea

US announces 10-nation force to counter Houthi attacks in Red Sea

 

IMO a load of <deleted>, and the most expensive way to solve a problem that was only caused by the israeli massacre in Gaza.

Stop the massacre and the Houthi problem goes away.

 

Germany hasn't signed on, and given their support for the israelis, one wonders why. Even the Brits have dusted the cobwebs off a ship to join in the fun. The Seychelles have joined, but one wonders if their coastguard actually has any anti missile capability to contribute anything worth while.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/us-announces-10-nation-force-to-counter-houthi-attacks-in-red-sea

US announces 10-nation force to counter Houthi attacks in Red Sea

 

IMO a load of <deleted>, and the most expensive way to solve a problem that was only caused by the israeli massacre in Gaza.

Stop the massacre and the Houthi problem goes away.

 

Germany hasn't signed on, and given their support for the israelis, one wonders why. Even the Brits have dusted the cobwebs off a ship to join in the fun. The Seychelles have joined, but one wonders if their coastguard actually has any anti missile capability to contribute anything worth while.

This is exactly what I predicted 4 days ago.

Germany presently has 8 naval vessels off the coast of Lebanon participating in UNIFIL.  The Seychelles role in all of this is to gather intelligence.

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/us-announces-10-nation-force-to-counter-houthi-attacks-in-red-sea

US announces 10-nation force to counter Houthi attacks in Red Sea

 

IMO a load of <deleted>, and the most expensive way to solve a problem that was only caused by the israeli massacre in Gaza.

Stop the massacre and the Houthi problem goes away.

 

Germany hasn't signed on, and given their support for the israelis, one wonders why. Even the Brits have dusted the cobwebs off a ship to join in the fun. The Seychelles have joined, but one wonders if their coastguard actually has any anti missile capability to contribute anything worth while.

Even if the Israelis stop, the Houthis may or may not  agree to a cease fire.  If a cease fire does take place it won't take long for the missile barrages to start again.  They'll cite an incident to claim Israel did not keep their word and make more demands.

Allowing Hamas to exist in its present form is kicking the can down the road.  They are determined to fight to the bitter end.  No matter what they agree to they find or create a reason to resume hostilities.

[Hawaiian]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/us-announces-10-nation-force-to-counter-houthi-attacks-in-red-sea

US announces 10-nation force to counter Houthi attacks in Red Sea

 

IMO a load of <deleted>, and the most expensive way to solve a problem that was only caused by the israeli massacre in Gaza.

Stop the massacre and the Houthi problem goes away.

 

Germany hasn't signed on, and given their support for the israelis, one wonders why. Even the Brits have dusted the cobwebs off a ship to join in the fun. The Seychelles have joined, but one wonders if their coastguard actually has any anti missile capability to contribute anything worth while.

It seems every few hours new reports come out about the economic effects this is having.  Supply chains are being disrupted

and shipping costs are quickly rising.  Anyone relying on just-in-time delivery is going to heavily impacted.  Although Chinese oil imports may not be affected it will eventually hurt their exports.

It the damage is significant they might suggest to one of the Houthi's major sponsors, Iran, to get involved.  China is a major buyer of Iranian oil, thus they have some leverage.  Anything is possible when push comes to shove.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/us-announces-10-nation-force-to-counter-houthi-attacks-in-red-sea

US announces 10-nation force to counter Houthi attacks in Red Sea

 

IMO a load of <deleted>, and the most expensive way to solve a problem that was only caused by the israeli massacre in Gaza.

Stop the massacre and the Houthi problem goes away.

 

Germany hasn't signed on, and given their support for the israelis, one wonders why. Even the Brits have dusted the cobwebs off a ship to join in the fun. The Seychelles have joined, but one wonders if their coastguard actually has any anti missile capability to contribute anything worth while.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

How is it 'more expensive', and why would you care? Stopping the war in the Gaza Strip would imply nations would 'have to' front a whole lot of funds for rehabilitation, possibly even troops sent. The USA already got naval assets in the region, so do other countries. It's not such a big deal as you make it to be.

 

As for the Houthi problem going away - I think that's naive, at best. If they realize they can do this and get away with it while getting what they want - they'll do it over and over again.

 

The Seychelles's coast guard may not intercept any missiles, but seems it's quite adept dealing with piracy, boarding attempts and so on - this featured among the Houthi actions as well.

 

Seychelles Coast Guard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seychelles_Coast_Guard