UK statement to the house - net migration measures - did I hear right? Family visa financials doubled, NHS charge up 66%?

[UKresonant]

 

I just heard ta snip of the UK Home Secretary speaking in the House of Commons

Family visa financials doubled?

NHS surcharge up 66%.

Did I hear right 

 

Can't find much on google at time of posting (without a subscription anyway)

Edited December 4, 2023 by UKresonant

[blackcab]

NHS surcharge to be increased to £1,035:

 

 

 

Family visa financials to be increased to £38,700 starting spring 2024:

 

 

[theblether]

1 hour ago, UKresonant said:

 

I just heard ta snip of the UK Home Secretary speaking in the House of Commons

Family visa financials doubled?

NHS surcharge up 66%.

Did I hear right 

 

Can't find much on google at time of posting (without a subscription anyway)

 

Yes, the family visa income level has been raised to £38,700. In effect, it will shut down spousal immigration. Very few pensioners will qualify at that income level, including those with private pensions. 

 

As for younger people, good luck.trying to get a job at that income level if you have an overseas gap on your CV. 

 

I.think its a bit high. I don't have a problem.with the NHS fee increasing. It is truly ridiculous trying to get GP appointments these days. 

[UKresonant]

The family visa financials will cause real problems for many I think. 

 

Edit  >£112k (circa 5 million THB) from £62.5k cash savings method if it's a similar calc. to before, ouch!

Edited December 4, 2023 by UKresonant

[UKresonant]

Just now, theblether said:

 

Yes, the family visa income level has been raised to £38,700. In effect, it will shut down spousal immigration. Very few pensioners will qualify at that income level, including those with private pensions. 

 

As for younger people, good luck.trying to get a job at that income level if you have an overseas gap on your CV. 

 

I.think its a bit high. I don't have a problem.with the NHS fee increasing. It is truly ridiculous trying to get GP appointments these days. 

 

Agreed the NHS price is still very reasonable compared with private insurance perhaps. 

[UKresonant]

Family visa Financial threshold....

So if he indexed it by UK R.P.I. since July 2012 it would 377.1/242.1 x£18600 circa £29000 perhaps still under £30k when it starts.

or

UK C.P.I. 132/95.6x18600 circa £25700 so say £27K at start. 

 

So thinking perhaps £28.5k Vs £38.7k circa £10k of smelly stuff often found in a field included (at 07:50 in the video)

Edited December 4, 2023 by UKresonant

[Celsius]

Oops.... hunsum men from Dorset and Kent no more interesting for bargirl

 

Canada still free for a common sexpat who wants a trophy wife on the budget.

 

 

[generealty]

What about Brits married to foreign nationals ? This is going to affect many who worked overseas and want to retire back in blighty. I for one will not be able to bring my wife back-so looks like retirement and old age alone.

[shunter]

Meanwhile there are no restriction's on the jetsam and flotsam washing up on the UK beaches etc. and being housed, fed, and financed by the taxpayer, Yet those who were born in the UK irrespective of ethnic origin are discriminated against.

[loong]

What is the NHS surcharge for and who does it apply to?

[Will B Good]

**** the Tories.

[keithcresswell]

I resent having to pay the NHS fee. My wife is working full time in the UK and paying National Insurance.  To me it seems that we're are paying twice for using the legal route.

[superal]

40 minutes ago, shunter said:

Meanwhile there are no restriction's on the jetsam and flotsam washing up on the UK beaches etc. and being housed, fed, and financed by the taxpayer, Yet those who were born in the UK irrespective of ethnic origin are discriminated against.

UK indigenous folks and pensioners should be exempt from the new rules . A married couple are expected to live on about 15K a year state pension and a single person about  10K. UK state pensions need to double at least . The reforms will reduce the net migration figures by as much as 50% and lessen the burden on the NHS , housing and benefits system . Also the UK Immigration should be upgrading their detection methods on finding illegal immigrants , many of whom are milking the benefits system on a large scale and are disguised as asylum seekers . UK crime rates on car theft and shop lifting have rocketed recently . Correlation with high immigration / crime ? Not to forget trying to get a doctor or dentist appointment or 10 hour waiting at the A& E . People living rough on the streets at a record level and 20% of people using food banks . 

No doubt there will be protest marches , against the immigration reforms , led by so called do gooders e.g. Stop the Oil campaigners . The UK has gone from bad to worse and needs these radical reforms to halt the slide .

[Jaggg88]

1 hour ago, loong said:

What is the NHS surcharge for and who does it apply to?

When applying for a visa for your Thai wife you pay an NHS surcharge to give her access to the NHS

[Red Forever]

At least 2 posters have swallowed the UK government's deliberate policy of conflating immigration and lack of housing.

This is, of course, tosh.

The immigration fiasco is unarguably the result of 13 years of Tory Home Office mismanagement.

However, the lack of housing, crisis in NHS etc is as a direct result of Tory Central Government underfunding services and saying "look there's another dinghy!"

Sunak gave the game away when addressing a Tory group in Tunbridge Wells saying [we know that Labour controlled local authorities are aiming resources at poor, deprived areas. This, we intend to stop].

Sez it all, dunnit?

[MicroB]

12 hours ago, theblether said:

I.think its a bit high. I don't have a problem.with the NHS fee increasing. It is truly ridiculous trying to get GP appointments these days. 

 

The fee is waived/refunded if the person gets a job in the NHS. If the person gets another type job and pays National Insurance like everyone else, its not. But note, that exemption was only introduced during the COVID-19 Pandemic. I expect it to be rescinded.

 

Coincidently, the average cost of private health insurance in the UK is £1,032 (some other estimates are a bit higher, a bit lower).

 

Ministers argue that the immigration health surcharge (IHS) is a good deal for temporary immigrants when compared to private healthcare insurance. Arguably, Partners are not intending to be temporary migrants, but have to wait 10 years for their permanent status (ILR) to be confirmed. Does the government intend to refund permanent immigrants the money they had to pay because the government artificially designated them as temporary? Or is it a Conservative government that no longer believes in the "sanctity of marriage"?

 

The latest available UK government statatistics indicate about 30,000 partner visas are granted each year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-september-2022/summary-of-latest-statistics

 

The NHS surcharge fee would raise about £30m per year. A net contribution of 0.02% to the NHS budget. A few Thai wives will not make a jot of difference to your ability to get a GP appointment.

 

The government says overall the IHS contributes £1.7 billion a year to the NHS.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7274/

 

But that is a pretty perverse way of looking at it. Visa fees and the IHS are increased not to reflect the true cost of processing a visa application (£2k to look at a form, where 86% of applications are granted. I work in jnfectious disease. If I had a test that was giving me 86% of samples were positive, I would be arguing there is no need for a test. We operate on the principle that 60% of samples are negative) but to disincentivise visa applications, to reduce immigration. A minister boasting that the IHS raises £1.7 billion is actually arguing that his government's policies are intended to take £1.7 billion out of the NHS each year. Or maybe he believes the policies  will never work, but they might be enough for him to keep his seat, because he can fool people into believing this will enable them to see a GP more quickly. The £2k fees are said to fund Border Force.

 

I am a lifelong conservative and a party member. I will not be voting for this shower at the next election (not just because of this). My local MP is Tory, and a decent chap, but its nothing personal, and I know he always has the famly firm to fall back on. The question is do I transfer my vote to someone yellow or red, or not at all. The Reform party can go and spin.

 

 

 

 

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, superal said:

UK indigenous folks and pensioners should be exempt from the new rules . A married couple are expected to live on about 15K a year state pension and a single person about  10K. UK state pensions need to double at least . The reforms will reduce the net migration figures by as much as 50% and lessen the burden on the NHS , housing and benefits system . Also the UK Immigration should be upgrading their detection methods on finding illegal immigrants , many of whom are milking the benefits system on a large scale and are disguised as asylum seekers . UK crime rates on car theft and shop lifting have rocketed recently . Correlation with high immigration / crime ? Not to forget trying to get a doctor or dentist appointment or 10 hour waiting at the A& E . People living rough on the streets at a record level and 20% of people using food banks . 

No doubt there will be protest marches , against the immigration reforms , led by so called do gooders e.g. Stop the Oil campaigners . The UK has gone from bad to worse and needs these radical reforms to halt the slide .

 

Define "UK indigenous folks". Born in the UK, or do you need to go back a few generations? IHS adds £1.7 billion a year to the NHS. If the policy is a complete success, then that money is taken out of the NHS.

 

Dentist shortages are complex. Dentists are generally self employed businessmen. They can choose to take NHS patients or not. They don't work for the NHS. The UK Dental bodies, essentially professional Unions, blocked foreign dentists by increasing language requirements, creating a shortage of dentists, because, not enough people want to become dentists. Blame them for creating a shortage. Of course supply and demand means if there is a shortage, well, they can increase their fees.

 

There is a contradiction of you alleging there is this huge body of illegal immigrants living under the wire, who need to be "found", but are milking the benefits system. Actually, they are probably not. They are part of the black economy, pay no tax, receive nothing in return. Their employers, likely British, are paying no tax, in illicit businesses.

 

Burden on the NHS. The NHS sees about 500 million patients a year; thats the number of encounters. There are many many people who have multiple contacts with the NHS, mostly elderly, like my mother who has had 17 A&E admissions in 9 months. That translates into about 17 million episodes. About 25% of the population need to use the NHS. A lot of people can go for years without being ill.

 

These aren't reforms just because the current government calls it that. These are policies designed to appeal to voters. I doubt they will achieve what you think they will achieve.

 

People living rough on the streets and eating from food banks is nothing to do with Thai wives, though some might be doing that because of what you call reforms.

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, shunter said:

the jetsam and flotsam

I doubt they have any voting privileges in UK. So it's the Brit Parliament that's discriminatory to put down the Brit people. 

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, shunter said:

Meanwhile there are no restriction's on the jetsam and flotsam washing up on the UK beaches etc. and being housed, fed, and financed by the taxpayer, Yet those who were born in the UK irrespective of ethnic origin are discriminated against.

What a charmer.

[Fairynuff]

2 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

Define "UK indigenous folks". Born in the UK, or do you need to go back a few generations? IHS adds £1.7 billion a year to the NHS. If the policy is a complete success, then that money is taken out of the NHS.

 

Dentist shortages are complex. Dentists are generally self employed businessmen. They can choose to take NHS patients or not. They don't work for the NHS. The UK Dental bodies, essentially professional Unions, blocked foreign dentists by increasing language requirements, creating a shortage of dentists, because, not enough people want to become dentists. Blame them for creating a shortage. Of course supply and demand means if there is a shortage, well, they can increase their fees.

 

There is a contradiction of you alleging there is this huge body of illegal immigrants living under the wire, who need to be "found", but are milking the benefits system. Actually, they are probably not. They are part of the black economy, pay no tax, receive nothing in return. Their employers, likely British, are paying no tax, in illicit businesses.

 

Burden on the NHS. The NHS sees about 500 million patients a year; thats the number of encounters. There are many many people who have multiple contacts with the NHS, mostly elderly, like my mother who has had 17 A&E admissions in 9 months. That translates into about 17 million episodes. About 25% of the population need to use the NHS. A lot of people can go for years without being ill.

 

These aren't reforms just because the current government calls it that. These are policies designed to appeal to voters. I doubt they will achieve what you think they will achieve.

 

People living rough on the streets and eating from food banks is nothing to do with Thai wives, though some might be doing that because of what you call reforms.

This is just the dying phase of the Nasty Party trying to appeal to their lowest base in the desperate hope they can hang on to power and continue stuffing their pockets.

[Fairynuff]

2 hours ago, Red Forever said:

At least 2 posters have swallowed the UK government's deliberate policy of conflating immigration and lack of housing.

This is, of course, tosh.

The immigration fiasco is unarguably the result of 13 years of Tory Home Office mismanagement.

However, the lack of housing, crisis in NHS etc is as a direct result of Tory Central Government underfunding services and saying "look there's another dinghy!"

Sunak gave the game away when addressing a Tory group in Tunbridge Wells saying [we know that Labour controlled local authorities are aiming resources at poor, deprived areas. This, we intend to stop].

Sez it all, dunnit?

Fishi will be on a private plane back to American home the day after the GE.

[new2here]

just for my own knowledge as a non-UK citizen.,

 

Is this saying in effect that the income you have to have in order to bring your non-UK spouse with you has gone up?

 

Again, i’m just trying to understand the issue as I’m not familiar with UK regs like this.. 

[Doctor Tom]

This is just one more, of many, examples that the Tories just don't get it.  People are not upset about legal immigration, to employment that adds to the UK economy, and in the case of the Heath service, keeps it functioning.  A fully trained Nurse from say the Philippines, probably can't now make the cut.  And yet, the real problem of illegal immigration that the government over funds with benefits, goes on, unchecked.  They are too incompetent to be in Power. 

[Doctor Tom]

5 minutes ago, new2here said:

just for my own knowledge as a non-UK citizen.,

 

Is this saying in effect that the income you have to have in order to bring your non-UK spouse with you has gone up?

 

Again, i’m just trying to understand the issue as I’m not familiar with UK regs like this.. 

Not as I read it because the person applying is a UK citizen.  There is already a  strict financial requirement in the visa process for the Sponsor,  that I believe is above the new number, but I could be in error. 

[Doctor Tom]

10 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

This is just the dying phase of the Nasty Party trying to appeal to their lowest base in the desperate hope they can hang on to power and continue stuffing their pockets.

People will not be fooled when their local hospital can't find the staff to stay functional. 

[Doctor Tom]

2 hours ago, Red Forever said:

The immigration fiasco is unarguably the result of 13 years of Tory Home Office mismanagement.

Civil Servants are a big part of this issue, and so many other issues.  The Service is institutionally incompetent, staffed by WFH obsessed, grossly inefficient nonentities, at the highest levels, even in the Diplomatic Service  They are a disgrace,  

[MicroB]

36 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

This is just the dying phase of the Nasty Party trying to appeal to their lowest base in the desperate hope they can hang on to power and continue stuffing their pockets.

 

As a member of that "Nasty Party", I hope its an opportunity for the Centre to recapture it. Ironically, policies like this are designed to appeal to the "Red Wall"; people who vote labour.

[Fairynuff]

28 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

People will not be fooled when their local hospital can't find the staff to stay functional. 

Everything the Tories do is designed to kill the NHS, the patients are just collateral damage.

[MangoKorat]

17 hours ago, theblether said:

Yes, the family visa income level has been raised to £38,700. In effect, it will shut down spousal immigration. Very few pensioners will qualify at that income level, including those with private pensions. 

It is very likely that this policy, if passed, will be challenged at the ECHR under the 'right to family life' provisions.

 

That will add further impetus to the Conservative's desire to take the UK out of the jurisdiction of the ECHR.  Just at Johnson sought to change Parliamentary rules when he effectively broke the law - the Conservative's view in general seems to be that when they come up against the law - change the law. The fact that the UK was one of the founding proponents of the ECHR seems to be lost on the Conservatives.

 

I have no intention of getting married again and even if I did, I would not take my wife to the UK. However, I will always defend the rights of those who wish to do so.  There will be cases where a UK national, married to a foreigner and living abroad, becomes ill with a long term, possibly life long illness and needs to return to the UK. How would that person be able to take his wife to the UK if he didn't meet the income requirements? Should he leave his wife (and carer) behind?

 

Many of the changes to visa regulations and increases in charges affecting those who wish to bring their wife to the UK are, I have no doubt, aimed at a particular group (nationality) who deliberately seek a wife from their country of heritage - often with no intention of continuing that marriage.  That wife, then seeks to bring her aging parents and other members of her family to the UK - placing further burdens on the UK's welfare system.

 

Discrimination laws would prevent any different treatment of that particular group so it seems we all have to pay for their behaviour. However, as I say, I fully expect these new proposals to be challenged. On the subject of discrimination, it could be said that by imposing a minimum income level, the UK government is discriminating between those who have and those who have not - again potentially illegal.

 

The fact that laws are put in place for a reason seems to go above their heads as they continue trying to dismantle democracy and remove laws that prevent them from implementing their policies. I used to be a Conservative voter but now I've seen their true colours - never again.

Edited December 5, 2023 by MangoKorat

[Fairynuff]

3 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

As a member of that "Nasty Party", I hope its an opportunity for the Centre to recapture it. Ironically, policies like this are designed to appeal to the "Red Wall"; people who vote labour.

That’s not going to happen in our time. The “centre”, those with a grain of integrity were thrown out by Johnson, all that’s left are basically thick extremists l