What do you think the impact of tax on foreign income will be on Pattaya?

[Villapete]

I saw on a Pattaya news channel yesterday on Youtube that immigration have apparently been asking for evidence of tax paid on income as part of visa processing. I do not know if this is true or not. It is just what I saw on the channel. I do not know if I am able to link the video, but you can probably find the video easily by searching Pattaya news on Youtbe or something like that. Please do not think I am scaremongering. That is not my intention. I just want to get informed. As the OP I have appreciated all of the responses to this topic. They have been helpful, so thanks a lot.

[mran66]

6 hours ago, deejai33 said:

 

It's my interpretation of the Paw/162 clarification.   See attached image.  Was from Mazar's apparently.

 

Posted in the main thread on this tax issue.   It's only my interprettation.  Do you think I'm a bit too hopeful, mistaken ?    

 

It talks of rules on income from foreign sources and assets not apply to pre-2024 income.

 

In the bitcoin case, those assets existed pre-2024.    Similar to cash you had in a bank pre-2024.  I'm hoping that makes both the cash and bitcoins not liable to tax when transferred.

 

Maybe there's a gain made when converting bitcoins, and that occurs post 1-1-2024.   Is that what you think about ?  Similar to interest earned in 2024 on pre-2024 money.  I think the interest would be taxable.

 

Is one option to change the bitcoins to cash before 2024, and next day change the cash back to bitcoin ? So the gain was clearly made in 2023.   

 

I'm no expert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay... This clarifies one issue. Profits realised by end of 2023 are not taxable, even if realised in 2023 and sent to thailand in 2024 - which is a good thing. 

 

However if you own anything that has appreciated since purchase (eg bitcoin, stock, fund etc) and you don't sell it by 31dec23 rather after, the whole appreciation is taxable if you send it to thailand. 

 

[topt]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Great, it's just that you don't seem to know that you've filed a tax return and doubt that one was actually filed so I might pass on that kind offer!

Are you aware that there is a one page form that can be used to regain tax withheld on interest? Or there was as I haven't done one for a few years. The form had the no. 10 on it after some Thai script.

I never completed the full tax return (PND90?) to reclaim.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, topt said:

Are you aware that there is a one page form that can be used to regain tax withheld on interest? Or there was as I haven't done one for a few years. The form had the no. 10 on it after some Thai script.

I never completed the full tax return (PND90?) to reclaim.

Yes, PND 90 and 91  are the two main forms but even the short form is still  a tax return., even though it's an abbreviated format for a specific aspect.

[Expat68]

2 hours ago, mran66 said:

 

 

Okay... This clarifies one issue. Profits realised by end of 2023 are not taxable, even if realised in 2023 and sent to thailand in 2024 - which is a good thing. 

 

However if you own anything that has appreciated since purchase (eg bitcoin, stock, fund etc) and you don't sell it by 31dec23 rather after, the whole appreciation is taxable if you send it to thailand. 

 

 my tax return from the UK is proof of my income

[mran66]

9 hours ago, Villapete said:

I saw on a Pattaya news channel yesterday on Youtube that immigration have apparently been asking for evidence of tax paid on income as part of visa processing.

 

I would guess this would be for people on work visa? 

[mran66]

47 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

 my tax return from the UK is proof of my income

 

That's obviously good for you if you can use that to make taxes paid to UK to credit against the income you would send to Thailand and assessed to be taxable income here. Likely your taxes paid to UK are more than what the tax here is anyway.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately - depending on the point of view - that is not the case for some of us who do not need to file tax return anywhere (until possibly to Thailand in 2026) and would need to use transaction statements to explain where the income is coming from.

[mran66]

12 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Nope.

 

Staying more than 179 days requires filing a tax return, even if nothing is owed.

 

However, this is the case now. Lots of tax residents in Pattaya never file a tax return, because, until this new regulation, nothing was owed. 

 

 

 

As some posters have said on the thread, no need to file tax return if no income even if you tax resident. Some say the threshold is 120k, some say 60k, not sure what is correct. And the announced new regulation does not say anything about changing the threshold for tax return filing as far as I understand.

 

Then the other issue is whether having or not having a tax ID makes any difference for likelyhood of possible audit if no filing. I never filed so far as no taxable income but  got my tax ID last year, not for filing tax return, but was required by US bank.  

 

But yes, I will also join the 179 day camp if taxes become real and meanhingful, however the current announcement does not look like that necessarily being the case.

[Danderman123]

One sure impact is that I will leave the country for the first two months of the year, while the legal issues are clarified. If the result is that most ex-pats will have to file a tax return, I may stay away an additional 4 months, as to not become a tax resident.

 

So, Pattaya will lose 2 - 6 months of my spending.

[mstevens]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:16 AM, Danderman123 said:

You don't get it.

 

Where this is going, no tax return, no visa renewal.

 

This is what they do with work permits so it certainly would not be a surprise to see them do it with retirement visas too.

[Ralf001]

Worst case, there will be a few more empty bar stools.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, mstevens said:

 

This is what they do with work permits so it certainly would not be a surprise to see them do it with retirement visas too.

It's fairly logical to connect work permits with income tax returns.

 

Not so much with retirement visas and tax returns.

[Mike Lister]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:26 PM, mran66 said:

 

As some posters have said on the thread, no need to file tax return if no income even if you tax resident. Some say the threshold is 120k, some say 60k, not sure what is correct. And the announced new regulation does not say anything about changing the threshold for tax return filing as far as I understand.

 

Then the other issue is whether having or not having a tax ID makes any difference for likelyhood of possible audit if no filing. I never filed so far as no taxable income but  got my tax ID last year, not for filing tax return, but was required by US bank.  

 

But yes, I will also join the 179 day camp if taxes become real and meanhingful, however the current announcement does not look like that necessarily being the case.

Both 60k and 120k are correct, it depends on whether you have assessable income only from employment or income from other courses as well, eg bank interest on savings. 

 

RD Forms: PND.90 = 60,000 single and 120,000 married;  PND.91 = 120,000 single and 220,000 married

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mike Lister

[scubascuba3]

53 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Worst case, there will be a few more empty bar stools.

very cynical, unlike you, people are less likely to buy a condo, house, less rent, less money for ladies and families and less money spent living

[2baht]

There'll be less gold chains on Beach Road for ladyboys to pilfer! 

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

very cynical, unlike you, people are less likely to buy a condo, house, less rent, less money for ladies and families and less money spent living

Not seeing the downside to be honest.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

So, Pattaya will lose 2 - 6 months of my spending.

Get it in perspective mate...... that will be more than covered by tax others might well pay going into Government coffers. 

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Get it in perspective mate...... that will be more than covered by tax others might well pay going into Government coffers. 

Exactly that. One way to look at this tax rule is as wealth redistribution. Instead of middle/upper class Thai's hanging on to their overseas gains, they will now be taxed and those funds will flow into the government coffers. That means the government take of direct taxation will increase from an abysmally low 2% of budget revenue, to a bigger number and will be spent throughout the government budget on social care, education, social security etc. And since successive Thai governments over the past twenty five years have all kept borrowings down to under 60% of GDP, AND, delivered budgets that have been conservative in spending. Even the IMF has urged Thailand in recent years to spend more and operate more of a deficit budget to build out infrastructure! 

[BE88]

I avoid this whole problem by leaving for 6 months a year to see the two different worlds that I will enjoy visiting in Switzerland and Thailand.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

I avoid this whole problem by leaving for 6 months a year to see the two different worlds that I will enjoy visiting in Switzerland and Thailand.

For many, it gets too expensive to travel and maintain 2 homes, they get older and the traveling becomes difficult, we find there is less and less to go back to. But make the best of it while you can.

[BE88]

34 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

For many, it gets too expensive to travel and maintain 2 homes, they get older and the traveling becomes difficult, we find there is less and less to go back to. But make the best of it while you can.

 

Owners in Switzerland are over 60% so paying rent without problems and taxes for a home is what the majority of the population chooses.

 

Thailand where I bought a house ten years ago was still convenient to buy because taxes are almost exempt now with the increase in purchase prices including the increase in new taxes foreseen the interest in making the purchase here in Thailand is gradually decreasing .

 

Thank you, I intend to continue travelling as long as I can 

[mran66]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Both 60k and 120k are correct, it depends on whether you have assessable income only from employment or income from other courses as well, eg bank interest on savings. 

 

RD Forms: PND.90 = 60,000 single and 120,000 married;  PND.91 = 120,000 single and 220,000 married

 

 

... Okay... So for a single farang without any other local income than interest on local bank account, the filing limit is?