Plot A or Plot B

[Woof999]

Possible dilemma. Looking at 2 plots of land, both about 15 rai in size. I want to build a sizeable home - 4 beds minimum, 5 baths minimum + large 15m x 15m workshop and I want to use solar energy as much as possible, ideally off-grid. I cannot stand power outages so need guaranteed power, and that power needs to be 3 phase.

 

Plot A is in a slightly better location but slightly worse land (shape, neighbours, irrigation and more). The plot does have electricity running right outside, not sure if it's 2 phase or 3. Cables look to support only 2 phase but not sure that's accurate.

 

Plot B is in the middle of nowhere, but still on a concrete road. No power lines within at least 1 km, possible 2-3. I much prefer the land. Cost of land will be around 500k baht cheaper than Plot A.

 

Main question, will saving 500k on the land leave me no worse off with my solar needs (totally off-grid, large battery store, diesel generator for guaranteed backup) than a different solar option that has mains power available? I would guesstimate that I need at least 20KW of power available at all times (my toys use a lot of power and will be used several hours per day). Solar solution would need to be 3 phase regardless. Backup generator would not need to provide 20KW, only essentials and comfort such as 3 or 4 24000 BTU aircons, a water heater or two and a 1000W PC.

 

My current bills are around 10,000 baht per month and I can see this increasing by at least 50% (a couple of CNC machines and big toys).

[Woof999]

Should have mentioned, for Plot B I might well prefer 2 separate but almost identical ~20KW solar systems. If any one of them is out of action, some kind of manual mechanism in place to allow either one of them to provide power to both the house and workshop.

 

Thanks.

[ChaiyaTH]

With 500K baht you can get almost done already in terms of buying an entire solar system setup including batteries and installation. I would personally not bother to connect to the main grid in that case too and pick plot B. Also dig your own water well in that case + create a pond with reserve.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ChaiyaTH

[Woof999]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

With 500K baht you can get almost done already in terms of buying an entire solar system setup including batteries and installation. I would personally not bother to connect to the main grid in that case too and pick plot B. Also dig your own water well in that case + create a pond with reserve.

 

Thanks, and yep, a well is a definite must at either location.

[Pink7]

My vote goes to location B. I have do a DIY offgrid setup with 30kwh batteries and 9-10kw capacity for 300K. If you do 3 x inverters in parallel then x2 and for example 2 x 30kwh batteries that setup with a backup generator you should be good. Btw I saw in another tread prices on SPF5000ES very good in Thailand now, they great to parallel setup.

 

Regards

Pink

Edited December 21, 2023 by Pink7

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Plot A

 

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Plot B

 

As long as you have done your due diligence, "up to you"

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Plot A ............... neighbours,

 

deal killer

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, Pink7 said:

My vote goes to location B. I have do a DIY offgrid setup with 30kwh batteries and 9-10kw capacity for 300K. If you do 3 x inverters in parallel then x2 and for example 2 x 30kwh batteries that setup with a backup generator you should be good. Btw I saw in another tread prices on SPF5000ES very good in Thailand now, they great to parallel setup.

 

Regards

Pink

 

Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

 

As long as you have done your due diligence, "up to you"

 

Damn, why didn't I think of that?

 

57 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

deal killer

 

Indeed. Plot A neighbour is an old "abandoned" pig / chicken farm Abandoned for how long I have no idea, but I'd guess that if a decent house was built nearby by a falang then there would at least be a "suggestion" that the farm was going to magically open again unless a donation was made.

[Crossy]

If we work backwards from your estimated 15k Baht per month, that's about 3400 kWh / month => 110kWh per day.

 

To generate that you are looking at around 30kW of solar (around 90 - 100 off 2m x 1m panels).

 

You'll probably need 15-20kWh of batteries, that depends upon your day/night usage ratio.

 

If your peak load is 20kW or so then 3 x 10kW (or 6 x 5kW) inverters configured for 3-phase is the way to go.

 

To be truly off-grid (on those dull days), maybe add 25% to panels and batteries. Batteries and panels are easy to add if you need more anyway.

 

Are you going to DIY this system or use a solar installer?

 

EDIT Some ballpark sums.

500k Baht => 14k USD

 

15kWh of battery is about 2500 USD (direct import from China)

6 x 5kW hybrid inverters => 500 USD x 6 = 3000 USD

30kW of panels => 15c per watt = 4500 USD

 

Add 3k US for ancillaries so looking at around 13k USD so your 500k Baht isn't a million miles off.

 

BUT

 

If you use a contractor you can easily double those numbers!

 

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

If we work backwards from your estimated 15k Baht per month, that's about 3400 kWh / month => 110kWh per day.

 

To generate that you are looking at around 30kW of solar (around 90 - 100 off 2m x 1m panels).

 

You'll probably need 15-20kWh of batteries, that depends upon your day/night usage ratio.

 

If your peak load is 20kW or so then 3 x 10kW (or 6 x 5kW) inverters configured for 3-phase is the way to go.

 

To be truly off-grid (on those dull days), maybe add 25% to panels and batteries. Batteries and panels are easy to add if you need more anyway.

 

Are you going to DIY this system or use a solar installer?

 

EDIT Some ballpark sums.

500k Baht => 14k USD

 

15kWh of battery is about 2500 USD (direct import from China)

6 x 5kW hybrid inverters => 500 USD x 6 = 3000 USD

30kW of panels => 15c per watt = 4500 USD

 

Add 3k US for ancillaries so looking at around 13k USD so your 500k Baht isn't a million miles off.

 

BUT

 

If you use a contractor you can easily double those numbers!

 

 

Wow. Tons of useful info. Also bear in mind that Plot A would still need $$$ spent on solar anyway, so if the whole thing costs about 500k baht then the solar on Plot B would essentially be free.

 

100 panels @ 2sqm each... jeepers. That would be pretty much the whole of the workshop roof. I guess I could plan on that roof having a mild southerly slope (5 degrees or so) so that the panels are naturally in prime position without extra tilt?

 

My rudimentary back of fag packet numbers suggest 15kWh of batteries is very much on the low side? Wouldn't they only power 2 * 6Kw water heaters with no sunlight for a single hour before being almost exhausted?

 

DIY? Possibly, although I hate working in this heat. Perhaps you know someone... nod nod wink wink, who could do with 30k or so beer vouchers for a couple of days work and a few hours prep upfront?

 

Thank you very much for such a detailed initial reply.

 

[Crossy]

Yeah @Woof999 definitely a napkin/fag packet estimate to get you in the right ball-park.

 

Many people (and suppliers) massively over-estimate how much energy a system will generate and end up with an undersized system and disappointment. You can never have too much solar.

 

You may want to look at LPG (or even solar) water heaters, also, as I noted, if you need more battery or PV it's easy enough to nail on.

 

Our 10kWP solar is on the car port (Madam won't let anything near her roof), easy access, no worries if it leaks a bit. Make sure you have decent access to clean your panels.

 

@Bandersnatch has a big hybrid system, have a look at his informative threads.

 

[Crossy]

For a realistic view, the numbers for our 10.6kWP on-grid hybrid system over the last couple of years.

 

[Woof999]

18 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yeah @Woof999 definitely a napkin/fag packet estimate to get you in the right ball-park.

 

Many people (and suppliers) massively over-estimate how much energy a system will generate and end up with an undersized system and disappointment. You can never have too much solar.

 

You may want to look at LPG (or even solar) water heaters, also, as I noted, if you need more battery or PV it's easy enough to nail on.

 

Our 10kWP solar is on the car port (Madam won't let anything near her roof), easy access, no worries if it leaks a bit. Make sure you have decent access to clean your panels.

 

@Bandersnatch has a big hybrid system, have a look at his informative threads.

 

 

Just watched his upgrade part 1 vid from 3 days ago. Very nicely done. Hadn't even considered using an electric car as the backup power source... will very likely need a second car if I move up north anyway, so that kills 2 birds with half a brick.

[Bandersnatch]

19 hours ago, Woof999 said:

 

Just watched his upgrade part 1 vid from 3 days ago. Very nicely done. Hadn't even considered using an electric car as the backup power source... will very likely need a second car if I move up north anyway, so that kills 2 birds with half a brick.

Part 2 coming soon. You don’t need to buy an expensive EV as bi-directional charging is increasingly available on reasonable priced EVs like the MG4

 

 

 

[Woof999]

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Part 2 coming soon. You don’t need to buy an expensive EV as bi-directional charging is increasingly available on reasonable priced EVs like the MG4

 

 

 

 

Thank you sir. I very much appreciate your efforts. I'll be keeping an eye on your YouTube channel for sure.

[Woof999]

Visited Plot B (and Plot A for that matter) on Friday / Saturday and unfortunately it's a no-go. I knew the land was sitting below the level of the concrete road, but I wasn't expecting it to be almost 2 metres lower. I took a laser level and (what I thought was) a long piece of pipe so that I can measure exactly how much fill might be needed. The pipe wasn't long enough. Stood on the ground, my eyes were still not level with the road and I'm neither a smurf nor a dwarf.

 

The good news is that we were also taken to Plot C, which was unknown to us beforehand. Plot C is a little more expensive (about the same as Plot A), closer to civilisation but still very quiet, does have 3 phase power (so the cost of solar could be delayed), better soil (currently growing a mix of potato and rubber tree - don't know why they didn't go for real trees ;) ) and actually sits above the (wider) concrete road that borders it. Shape of land is also better. Approximately 85 metres wide at the front, widening to 105 metres at the rear, with sides of approximately 240 metres. Just over 14 rai in total.