Bangkok’s 20-baht metro dream in danger of derailing

[snoop1130]

 

Bangkok commuters’ dream of paying no more than 20 baht for a metro ride regardless of distance traveled still faces serious obstacles. 

 

Even with the ruling Pheu Thai Party by their side, the dream continues to seem far-fetched. Currently, fares start at 12 baht and go as high as 47 baht per ride. If commuters use more than one metro line per trip, they also have to pay more.

 

Current fares

 

There are now 12 city lines in Greater Bangkok, stretching a total of 242.34 kilometers. Together, they cover not just the capital but also nearby provinces like Samut Prakan and Pathum Thani.

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2023-12-22

 

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[Purdey]

It is the only way of getting cars off the streets. Still need more destinations too. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Purdey

[Chris Daley]

Crammed in a carriage with 30 Thai people staring at you.  Now that's what I'm talking about.

[proton]

19 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

Crammed in a carriage with 30 Thai people staring at you.  Now that's what I'm talking about.

 

They will all be staring at their phones!

[it is what it is]

 

they need to focus on infrastructure integration, not get bogged down in minutiae. i've never been in a city where different lines require different travel cards, it's unnecessarily inconvenient. one travel card for all public transport within bangkok, how hard can it be? other cities manage it.

 

 

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Crammed in a carriage with 30 Thai people staring at you.  Now that's what I'm talking about.

Stare back.... 

[jaywalker2]

They're trying to figure out how to charge Thais 20 baht  and foreigners 100

[khunjeff]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

There are now 12 city lines in Greater Bangkok

 

Virtually every article published these days says the same thing, and yet I can only see 10 lines, no matter how hard I count (even using my toes). Where are these two invisible train lines? (Non-operating lines such as the eastern Orange Line certainly shouldn't count.) Does @Crossy know what they're referring to?

 

1 - Light Green

2 - Dark Green

3 - Blue

4 - Purple

5 - Gold

6 - Pink

7 - Yellow

8 - Light Red

9 - Dark Red

10 - ARL

11 - ?

12 - ?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, khunjeff said:

Does @Crossy know what they're referring to?

 

555, I went looking too.

 

Unless they are counting the two Green Line extensions past Ha Yaek Lat Phrao and Samrong as separate lines coz they work under a different business model / concession agreement.

 

Note that these stations have island platforms (and there's a depot on each section too) so could have been transfer stations if the concession was not awarded to BTSC. 

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

They're trying to figure out how to charge Thais 20 baht  and foreigners 100

 

Well, the MRT gives old farts like me a discounted fare, but the BTS charges full price for all foreigners at all times, even though Thais get a discount in off-peak hours. So they're trying. Give it time. 

[digbeth]

14 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

 

Virtually every article published these days says the same thing, and yet I can only see 10 lines, no matter how hard I count (even using my toes). Where are these two invisible train lines? (Non-operating lines such as the eastern Orange Line certainly shouldn't count.) Does @Crossy know what they're referring to?

 

1 - Light Green

2 - Dark Green

3 - Blue

4 - Purple

5 - Gold

6 - Pink

7 - Yellow

8 - Light Red

9 - Dark Red

10 - ARL

11 - ?

12 - ?

12 would need to include the Orange which is built but without no rolling stock of signaling equipment until the west extension is built

and maybe the grey line which is not even open to tender yet 

[Bangkok Barry]

 

In 1933 in London they set up the London Transport Passenger Board to bring all the different lines under one management. 90 years on, Bangkok....... Give them time. Give them time.

 

But by the time they might get around to it Bangkok is forecast to be under water isn't it, so the overhead rail system might be the only thing able to operate. It's just that there'll be no passengers to use it.

[cracker1]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:31 AM, khunjeff said:

 

Virtually every article published these days says the same thing, and yet I can only see 10 lines, no matter how hard I count (even using my toes). Where are these two invisible train lines? (Non-operating lines such as the eastern Orange Line certainly shouldn't count.) Does @Crossy know what they're referring to?

 

1 - Light Green

2 - Dark Green

3 - Blue

4 - Purple

5 - Gold

6 - Pink

7 - Yellow

8 - Light Red

9 - Dark Red

10 - ARL

11 - ?

12 - ?

There is a Monorail and I believe a free line to a major shopping center on the river ?

[Irrumator]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:44 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Well, the MRT gives old farts like me a discounted fare, but the BTS charges full price for all foreigners at all times, even though Thais get a discount in off-peak hours. So they're trying. Give it time. 

My thoughts exactly.  I can't stand the BTS anyway - dated, dirty, money-grubbing and racist.  Can rarely get a seat, no next train indicator boards unlike the MRT, expensive tickets and unhelpful staff.

 

On the other hand, the MRT wins hands down for being well-run, helpful staff, cleanliness and less expensive that the other pile of you know what.  

[Irrumator]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:44 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Well, the MRT gives old farts like me a discounted fare, but the BTS charges full price for all foreigners at all times, even though Thais get a discount in off-peak hours. So they're trying. Give it time. 

Yes, extremely beneficial for us old farts.  I live near Nonthaburi Government and to Sukhumvit is 29 baht for me, so I never use the BTS (which is too far to the nearest station at Sena Nikhom anyway).

[StayinThailand2much]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:37 PM, Purdey said:

It is the only way of getting cars off the streets. Still need more destinations too. 

 

Yes, compared to cities of similar size in Asia (e.g. KL, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Singapore), those trains are ridiculously expensive, esp. if one changes lines, and they only provide relatively few stops in select parts of the city. Why is it that any other country can create just one transportation system for their capital (covering most of the city), but Bangkok has several, run by different companies, and one has to pay the full base fare for each of them. If one needs to travel with three or four different lines, the fare almost adds up to prices seen in Hong Kong (where consumers have much higher incomes).

Edited December 24, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[Purdey]

16 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Yes, compared to cities of similar size in Asia (e.g. KL, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Singapore), those trains are ridiculously expensive, esp. if one changes lines, and they only provide relatively few stops in select parts of the city. Why is it that any other country can create just one transportation system for their capital (covering most of the city), but Bangkok has several, run by different companies, and one has to pay the full base fare for each of them. If one needs to travel with three or four different lines, the fare almost adds up to prices seen in Hong Kong (where consumers have much higher incomes).

It's not much of a mystery. Corruption. 

[digbeth]

22 hours ago, cracker1 said:

There is a Monorail and I believe a free line to a major shopping center on the river ?

Thankyou for your insightful contribution, your knowledgeable expertise on the topic is much appreciated

 

 

 

/s

 

 

 

 

 

The monorails are the Yellow and Pink lines - guess what? already on the list

 

The APM people mover pod to the Major Shopping Mall you can't name is the Gold line which is already on the list 

[StayinThailand2much]

I heard, the Pink Line will be renamed 'Tofu-dreg Line', but that's probably just a rumour...

[josephbloggs]

On 12/24/2023 at 1:02 PM, Irrumator said:

My thoughts exactly.  I can't stand the BTS anyway - dated, dirty, money-grubbing and racist.  Can rarely get a seat, no next train indicator boards unlike the MRT, expensive tickets and unhelpful staff.

DIrty? It's spotless and is in remarkable condition given it's age. The original trains are 24 years old but still in perfect condition. And it is a commuter system running through the middle of a major capital city, why would you expect to get a seat? Criticise legitimate issues if you like but don't make things up - dirty and dated.

[Irrumator]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

DIrty? It's spotless and is in remarkable condition given it's age. The original trains are 24 years old but still in perfect condition. And it is a commuter system running through the middle of a major capital city, why would you expect to get a seat? Criticise legitimate issues if you like but don't make things up - dirty and dated.

You need to go to Specsavers.  

[isaanistical]

17 minutes ago, Irrumator said:

You need to go to Specsavers.  

Then you need a white stick, which ironically would not get you a seat. The trains are clean and, remarkably, free of graffiti

 

On 12/24/2023 at 6:49 AM, StayinThailand2much said:

If one needs to travel with three or four different lines, the fare almost adds up to prices seen in Hong Kong (where consumers have much higher incomes).

But at least in HKG there's the wonderful Octopus card, good for every transport mode and much more. That, as has been said by several posters, is the really stupid thing about BKK's systems.

[StayinThailand2much]

43 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

But at least in HKG there's the wonderful Octopus card, good for every transport mode and much more. That, as has been said by several posters, is the really stupid thing about BKK's systems.

 

Yes, while in Bangkok one has to buy at least two different tickets/cards (no discounts whatsoever), not to mention long and time-consuming transfer distances between the different providers (MRT to BTS, BTS to Airport Link, etc.) - No need to go to the fitness center, if one has to walk twice between BTS and MRT stations... 

 

I enjoyed travelling in Hong Kong where it is so convenient.

Edited December 26, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Irrumator said:

You need to go to Specsavers.  

Let me guess, you don't live in Bangkok?

For anyone to say the BTS is dirty and outdated, sorry, you can't be taken seriously.

[josephbloggs]

38 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Yes, while in Bangkok one has to buy at least two different tickets/cards (no discounts whatsoever), not to mention long and time-consuming transfer distances between the different providers (MRT to BTS, BTS to Airport Link, etc.) - No need to go to the fitness center, if one has to walk twice between BTS and MRT stations... 

 

I enjoyed travelling in Hong Kong where it is so convenient.

Yes, this is the worst failing of the system here that there is no common ticketing. The original BTS and then MRT you can forgive as an oversight (well not forgive, but understand), but why joining a common ticketing platform wasn't mandatory in future tenders for new lines is astonishing. It is a massive massive failing of an otherwise good network. I have three cards (ARL, MRT, Rabbit) I need to use.

I'm not sure I agree about the interchange distances though. I have been through most and they are generally as close as can be. Yellow to green is right there at Samrong, purple to pink is a bit of a walk at Nonthaburi Civic Centre but they are coming from different directions entirely and a walkway is being constructed, BTS to MRT is right there at Asok, blue to purple is literally right there at Tao Poon  - you just go up a level, red to blue is just going down to the basement at Bang Sue. ARL to BTS at Phaya Thai couldn't really be closer. Seriously how close can they be??

In Singapore some stations have really long walks, as does Shanghai (way further than any Thai connection), HK I don't remember, Tokyo has massive walks. The only Thai one I take issue with is ARL to MRT at Makkasan, I have no idea why it couldn't be a direct link in the basement of Makkasan station. I am guessing there must be a technical reason for it - too much below ground infrastructure that can't be moved, or the SRT line causing an issue, not sure - would love to know as that is a pretty long walk but again, nothing more than the walks in other major cities I have been to.

[Irrumator]

10 hours ago, isaanistical said:

Then you need a white stick, which ironically would not get you a seat. The trains are clean and, remarkably, free of graffiti

 

But at least in HKG there's the wonderful Octopus card, good for every transport mode and much more. That, as has been said by several posters, is the really stupid thing about BKK's systems.

Agreed about HK, not agreed about the BTS.

[Irrumator]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Let me guess, you don't live in Bangkok?

For anyone to say the BTS is dirty and outdated, sorry, you can't be taken seriously.

Rubbish, it's scruffy and dated. And don't forget crowded and almost impossible to get a seat. And o platform indicator boards - why?  The MRT have done it since day one, so why can't the BTS?  Nothing to do with saving money by any chance?
Anyway, why are so being so defensive?  Seems very parochial to me.  
And yes, I do live as near as dammit to Bangkok - near The Mall Ngam Wong Wan.  That's (just) Nonthaburi, but I doubt you lot who can only live near a BTS line know much about other nearby areas.  

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Irrumator said:

Rubbish, it's scruffy and dated. And don't forget crowded and almost impossible to get a seat. And o platform indicator boards - why?  The MRT have done it since day one, so why can't the BTS?  Nothing to do with saving money by any chance?
Anyway, why are so being so defensive?  Seems very parochial to me.  
And yes, I do live as near as dammit to Bangkok - near The Mall Ngam Wong Wan.  That's (just) Nonthaburi, but I doubt you lot who can only live near a BTS line know much about other nearby areas.  

 

Ah, the last sentence reveals the chip on the shoulder. Got it now.

Still disagree about it being scruffy and dated (and so does anyone else who's replied), but up to you.

No platform indicator boards, I don't see why that's a big deal. Just turn your head and you can nearly always see the next train (apart from at really non peak times). The same company has them on the monorails as they only run every ten minutes, I don't see a need for them on the BTS when the trains are (usually) so close together.

Edited December 27, 2023 by josephbloggs

[isaanistical]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:43 AM, Irrumator said:

Rubbish, it's scruffy and dated. And don't forget crowded and almost impossible to get a seat. And o platform indicator boards - why?  The MRT have done it since day one, so why can't the BTS?  Nothing to do with saving money by any chance?
Anyway, why are so being so defensive?  Seems very parochial to me.  
And yes, I do live as near as dammit to Bangkok - near The Mall Ngam Wong Wan.  That's (just) Nonthaburi, but I doubt you lot who can only live near a BTS line know much about other nearby areas.  

Why do you want indicator boards? You unaware which platform you on/ which direction you going? How difficult can it be to navigate BKK systems? It's not exactly Seoul, fer chrrisssake.

And I'm not defensive. I spend most of my waking hours cursing Thais, but one thng they do rather well is keep their trains clean and I appreciate it. You need optical advice, as I suggested.

If you live away from a railway, it's not exactly the railway company's fault. But I assume you think differently. Get a limo.

Edited December 29, 2023 by isaanistical
spelinge

[isaanistical]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:07 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Yes, while in Bangkok one has to buy at least two different tickets/cards (no discounts whatsoever), not to mention long and time-consuming transfer distances between the different providers (MRT to BTS, BTS to Airport Link, etc.) - No need to go to the fitness center, if one has to walk twice between BTS and MRT stations... 

 

I enjoyed travelling in Hong Kong where it is so convenient.

Lots of cities have some long interchanges - Paris, for example. But I never saw such a lack of co-ordination in the joining up of interchange stations. Even super-busy (by BKK standards) ones like Asoke have no bridging or such to facilitate the change.

But BKK runs the lines as competitors, hence the lack of such helpful infrastructure as well as lack of interest in common ticketing. "We gave the poor a train, but they still want more," say the top families that make the money from the projects. Never forget that the object of a major road or rail construction is to line certain pockets, not for us to actually use..........