Usufruct

[KhunLA]

Are you asking as a husband of ?

 

What ever is in that person will, or legal inheritance succession of ownership at death.   

 

If that is you, as a foreigner, as stated earlier, legally, you have 1 year, to transfer or sell land.   Depending to who, they may or may not honor the usufruct (I think).  Not sure how binding the usufruct is after death of owner.   

 

Always good to have a POA, to avoid any complication if you wish to sell.  That & death cert. should suffice, and hopefully a will in place.

 

On the POA, I had 3 with my ex-wife (living), 1 filled out, giving me rights to sell  land/house.  Also had 2 blank ones, signed & witnesses.   Which I did need one, as land office wouldn't accept the wording of the one filled out.  I asked & just filled it out as he wanted.  Ex (already divorced) was out of province at the time.  No issues at all.

[mark131v]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:38 AM, UKJASE said:

not all land offices will give one tho i believe......  i paid tea money for my usurfruct, but it wasnt too much, and was worth it for peace of mind.  my name was put onto the back of the chanote 

 

you and your wife should speak to the land office and see what they will do

 

Me too, through Pattaya land office they initially tried a scam but in the end we got the papers and you can't put a price on peace of mind. To the OP get yourself to the land office and ask

[mark131v]

This was a write up of my experience when we did our usufruct:

 

 

[Adumbration]

I have a house and two farms all on separate chanotes.  They are all in my GFs name.  I have a usufruct over each plot.  Three different land offices.  Cost is 75 baht (stamp duty) to register the setee gep gin chiwit plus a few pennies for some photocopying of your passport and the tabien barn and the Thai owners ID card.

 

Make sure you have a Thai translation of you full name before you go to get the usufruct because the machines at the land offices cannot print English on the back of the Chanote, only Thai.

 

My GF has a will leaving all three properties to me in the event she dies.

 

Lots of BS and misinformation about usufructs, including in this thread.  It is not a difficult thing to do, but as some have mentioned the relevant land office must want to play ball otherwise all bets are off.

[digbeth]

one possible caveat is the the usufruct terminates at the end of your life.... would that be the wrong incentive if your existence become a problem for whoever got a hold of the land deeds, 

[YaDongImproved]

There are some crazy replies in this topic. Someone said he wouldn’t trust a piece of paper.

 

Well, what is important is the registration in the title deed. The contracts are additional protections depending how they are written.

 

A marriage is a piece of paper and it give birth to marital property, which is a kind of protection.

 

Khun La wrote : « If not mistaken (usually not), a wife can cancel your lease 1 year after divorce. »

You are mistaken. You are not a lawyer, do not understand publicity on a title deed which means inscriptions and you believe wrongly that clause 1469 will apply when it won’t. Anyway, you can normally not do a lease with your wife, most land departments are refusing them for 10 years and more.

When the owner of the chanotte dies, a lease or usufruct continues if the contracts are well written. And a foreigner can inherit a property by clause 93 and following of the land code but you need a permission to keep it. They always refuse so you have 6 months to 1 year to transfer it to a Thai or sell it and keep proceeds.

 

Usufruct as a real right, meaning attached to a thing, do not stop whoever become the owner. It stops at the death of the usufructuary.

 

Thai lawyers tend to believe that a registered lease becomes like a real right, I tend to disagree but a clause of inheritance inside the contract will do the trick. And not only that, a declaration of intention to renew from the owner by clause 168 will bind the heirs retroactively and protect you for 60 years.

 

This is why you need lawyers and people that have experience in real estate law in Thailand and not listen to everything you heard on forums or Facebook. I do that for 17 years. I NEVER seen one usufruct that I made or lease cancelled by any client. NEVER.

 

There are ways to formulate contracts and make them stronger. Do not buy a template, contracts must be personalized and have as many rights as you can.

 

Sebastien from ThaiLawOnline. 

 

 

 

 

 

[YaDongImproved]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:02 PM, Aforek said:

When the "owner " of the chanot dies, what happens ? there is somebody else's name or it always remains in the name of the same person; and does it change something for the usufruct ? 

 

1) A usufruct is a real right, which means it is attached to a property. Therefore, it does not matter who owns the property; the usufruct persists even after the owner's death. However, it terminates upon the death of the usufructuary.

2) A foreigner can inherit property, including land, in accordance with Section 93 and subsequent sections of the Land Code. However, this requires approval from the Ministry of Interior, which is delegated to the Land Department. In practice, such approval is rarely granted. According to the law, you have between 180 days to 1 year to transfer the property to a Thai national or sell it.

 

This is why relying solely on a usufruct might not be the best strategy, unless your primary goal is security until your demise. With a usufruct, you cannot sell the property unless the owner agrees.

 

This underscores the importance of skilled property lawyers. For an unmarried couple, I would recommend an addendum to the usufruct, plus a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) and Last Wills.

 

For a married couple, a similar approach can be taken, but the MOU is less impactful. Demonstrating that the funds for purchasing the property were acquired before marriage can be advantageous, as per Section 1471 of the Civil and Commercial Code.

 

I have handled several cases of property inheritance by foreigners. They are allowed to sell the property and retain the proceeds, which is extremely beneficial. Without a Last Will, consideration must also be given to potential heirs such as children and parents under Section 1629, while the spouse is recognized as an heir under Section 1635. Creating a Last Will simply makes the process more straightforward.

 

The most important is understanding the registration process and how contracts can be an additional security. Or course, it happens all the time: people do not respect contracts. But you put penal clauses, damages, or other mechanisms to grant as much as possible rights to your clients.

 

i have been working 18 years with Thai lawyers. Some are despicable. Most do not have a large knowledge of property laws for foreigners as they serve mostly Thai clients. I was one of the first in 2006 to do usufructs. Now, I am one of the first to do Sap Ing Sith. Just registered one before Christmas in Chiangmai and the land department never did it before.

 

Attached is a blue Garuda from a Sap Ing Sith title deed,

 

Sebastien 

 

[UKJASE]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:54 PM, Sigma6 said:

 

Was that in Hua Hin?

What ballpark figure??

yes, in HH

 

price 10 k

[john donson]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:02 AM, YaDongImproved said:

 

This Power of Attorney, known as TD21, is valid for Nor Sor 3 Kor and Chanotte, but not for condominiums or Nor Sor Sam. It should be signed, but not filled out, as the usage time and designated attorney are unknown. Consistency in handwriting is crucial due to the stringent requirements of land departments. Of they feel the writing comes from two people, they can refuse. 

 

Additionally, a copy of the Thai ID and the Ta Bian Baan, signed by the owner, is required. Note that Thai IDs have expiration dates and need renewal.

 

If the individual is abroad, the TD21 must be notarized, as indicated on its reverse side. Although the land department has the discretion to ask questions and verify the sale's authenticity, this does not guarantee success. I recommend a clear Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between unmarried individuals (explaining a separation, or divorce and the funds) and an MOU for married couples that clarifies the origin of funds, indicating they were acquired before marriage.

 

the simple contract of the land department for usufruct does not prohibit the owner to take a mortgage, sell the house, add lines or encumbrances on the property. This is why you must add something stronger and I would also suggest Last Wills. We never know. 

 

how much for your services?

 

divorced , plan to buy a house in my ex-wife's name (we have kids, that are minors so not an option) ,  with usufruct

 

but land department of samut prakarn claims, not possible, only for married couples

 

 

rent rent rent ... rent is 30k a month for a house here, hate condo life, so over 25 years, buying is the short pain (5 mil) and not paying a stranger... if i die, ex does whatever with it, not my problem...