Popular Post kwak250 Posted January 10 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 10 4 minutes ago, KhunLA said: You might want to shop by specs, and not looks. I posted a few, and the Attrage was mentioned, not the Mirage, which is even worse than the Attrage. I think you will find they are practically the same.,My nephew owned both Same engine just one was a hatchback . Absolute basic but guess what his Mirage is 12 years old and still going well mind you he had to change the battery a few years ago. think he said it was 1700 baht Think he is on his 3rd since new and about to sell it for 160k It's done 150k and to be fair he hasn't lost a lot on it . Look forward to seeing the price of an Ev after 12 years Either way I don't always shop by specs. An Ev car will win with specs but some specs are not at all desirable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, kwak250 said: Either way I don't always shop by specs. An Ev car will win with specs but some specs are not at all desirable. You not shopping by specs is obvious, and the first thing I look at usually. Before even looking at a vehicle, and why waste my time if under-spec'd. The Neta V will perform better, more instant hp & torque, along with better suspension. Performance & ride are desirable to me, and top 2 considerations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 17 minutes ago, KhunLA said: I can only go by what you post, and some of it shows a bit of ignorance. Not a totally bad thing, as I was ignorant about all things EV just a couple years ago. Assuming so in your case, as you don't come off as a stupid person. Others, I can't say the same, why I don't reply to them, as simply hopeless. All these people stating, generalizing, battery packs need to be replaced, in a few year, and only the whole pack, and or won't last long. That comes down to pure ignorance. Most current production electric motors & battery packs (LFP), will probably outlast the cars they are in. There is an abundance of lithium, and surely more to be found. Mining it fast enough to keep up with demand might be an issue in the future. That's IF, lithium will be the go to chemistry in 5-10 yrs, as EVs may be powered by something else in the not so distant future. You want facts, here are some: Market share of EV's is about 14% of new sales worldwide. ICE's are still 86%. PROJECTED tonnage of lithium mined in 2023 is 170,000 tonnes. On average, each EV takes about 60 kg of lithium to build the battery. Teslas take a fair bit more. Therefore, there was enough lithium to build 2.9 million EV's in 2023. The world population of cars is 1.47 billion. I am using the convention of 1 billion = 1000 million. In 2023, new EV's ( assuming they were all sold ) replaced existing ICE's by 0.2%. Which is why I am ridiculing the claim EV's will replace ICE's. It will probably take 50 years, assuming hydrogen does not get a start. Toyota seems to think it will. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 1 minute ago, KhunLA said: You not shopping by specs is obvious, and the first thing I look at usually. Before even looking at a vehicle, and why waste my time if under-spec'd. The Neta V will perform better, more instant hp & torque, along with better suspension. Performance & ride are desirable to me, and top 2 considerations. Why have you chosen an MG then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Just realised why KhunLA is on here so much. Apart from trying to convince himself he made the right choice its because he is sat at some Charging station waiting for 1% extra juice to trickle into his Ev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kwak250 said: Why have you chosen an MG then? Sarcasm ... funny ... Because it's a superior car over others that we looked at for their price point (695k & 949k) at the time of purchase. Both the ICE & EV versions. After owning the ZS ICE, had no desire to own a sedan. Previous ICEVs in TH were Vios & Mazda 2, which I wouldn't own again or recommend to anyone. Edited January 10 by KhunLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted January 10 Popular Post Share Posted January 10 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kwak250 said: Just realised why KhunLA is on here so much. Apart from trying to convince himself he made the right choice its because he is sat at some Charging station waiting for 1% extra juice to trickle into his Ev Funny .. actually I pulled a muscle in my back. So y'all are F'd for the next week or so If I don't take myself out first ... Welcome to my world for the next week or so: Edited January 10 by KhunLA 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 5 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Funny .. actually I pulled a muscle in my back. So y'all are F'd for the next week or so If I don't take myself out first ... Better if you go for the heart, you might hit something then. Sorry, can't resist when someone leads with their chin. Edited January 10 by Lacessit 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandersnatch Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 42 minutes ago, Lacessit said: You want facts, here are some: Market share of EV's is about 14% of new sales worldwide. ICE's are still 86%. PROJECTED tonnage of lithium mined in 2023 is 170,000 tonnes. On average, each EV takes about 60 kg of lithium to build the battery. Teslas take a fair bit more. Therefore, there was enough lithium to build 2.9 million EV's in 2023. The world population of cars is 1.47 billion. I am using the convention of 1 billion = 1000 million. In 2023, new EV's ( assuming they were all sold ) replaced existing ICE's by 0.2%. Which is why I am ridiculing the claim EV's will replace ICE's. It will probably take 50 years, assuming hydrogen does not get a start. Toyota seems to think it will. Again with no supporting citations. I have already explained lithium supply is currently matching demand if it wasn't prices would be going up not down. Don't forget competing Sodium-ion batteries, JAC and BYD are already using them. Don't get me started on how uneconomic H2 is. When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is some small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. With the current best commercial electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost. Toyota keeps making promises about it's Mirai but you can't buy it here. Then where will you fill it up? Thailand has no public H2 filling stations. There are currently taking H2 station out in Europe nobody is adding new ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Just now, Bandersnatch said: Again with no supporting citations. I have already explained lithium supply is currently matching demand if it wasn't prices would be going up not down. Don't forget competing Sodium-ion batteries, JAC and BYD are already using them. Don't get me started on how uneconomic H2 is. When I make power from my solar system to put in my electric car there is some small efficiency loss due to the inversion process, but over 90% of the energy ends up in my car. With the current best commercial electrolyzers, green hydrogen's efficiency is around 30%, which means 70% of the renewable energy put into producing green hydrogen is lost. Toyota keeps making promises about it's Mirai but you can't buy it here. Then where will you fill it up? Thailand has no public H2 filling stations. There are currently taking H2 station out in Europe nobody is adding new ones. It takes about a minute to pull up the data I posted, on Google. Look for yourself. If one was to increase the amount of lithium mined tenfold overnight, one would increase the EV annual replacement rate of ICE's from 0.2% to 2%. If you are so fixated on citations, kindly post how many JAC and BYD cars are made with sodium -ion batteries. Don't forget to mention their relatively low energy density, which means the batteries are bulkier and heavier. If you want to refute the data and calculations I posted, be my guest. I'd say your response is more an emotional one, to unpalatable facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandersnatch Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 minutes ago, Lacessit said: It takes about a minute to pull up the data I posted, on Google. Look for yourself. I spend far too much of my time already fact checking the rubbish posted here by EV haters. 7 minutes ago, Lacessit said: I'd say your response is more an emotional one, to unpalatable facts. You didn't post any facts just unsupported opinions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Lacessit said: It takes about a minute to pull up the data I posted, on Google. Look for yourself. If one was to increase the amount of lithium mined tenfold overnight, one would increase the EV annual replacement rate of ICE's from 0.2% to 2%. If you are so fixated on citations, kindly post how many JAC and BYD cars are made with sodium -ion batteries. Don't forget to mention their relatively low energy density, which means the batteries are bulkier and heavier. If you want to refute the data and calculations I posted, be my guest. I'd say your response is more an emotional one, to unpalatable facts. You have some good points there. I am going to check back in a week when khunLa feels better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwak250 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, KhunLA said: Funny .. actually I pulled a muscle in my back. So y'all are F'd for the next week or so If I don't take myself out first ... Welcome to my world for the next week or so: Hope you get better soon. You see the EV cars and their insane 0-60 speeds causing global back injuries Looks like you might need the Yaris or a nice used Mirage. Edited January 10 by kwak250 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said: I spend far too much of my time already fact checking the rubbish posted here by EV haters. You didn't post any facts just unsupported opinions It's not a fact the current world lithium supply is 170,000 tonnes? It's not a fact the average EV battery requires 60 kg of lithium? It's not a fact the number of vehicles worldwide is 1.47 billion? Do you have a problem with basic math? What alternative facts are you going to post? Noted you have not posted any data on JAC and BYD EV's equipped with sodium ion batteries. I don't think I'll bother responding any further to someone who has such a closed mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted January 10 Popular Post Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Lacessit said: It's not a fact the current world lithium supply is 170,000 tonnes? It's not a fact the average EV battery requires 60 kg of lithium? It's not a fact the number of vehicles worldwide is 1.47 billion? You're not including (big surprise) the reserves that exist today, and not even considering the reserves they haven't found yet. 10s of millions of cubic tons. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 As for lithium itself, a local lithium mine to me has shutdown after only 2 years of operation because of the lithium price falling. Theyre planning on treating their stockpile over the next 6 months with a 50% staff level, obviously hoping for a rebound in price. HEY !! Cheaper ev’s !! 🤣🤣 @Lacessit at times you can come across as pretty closed minded yourself. The numbers you claim for lithium, I don’t know where you get them… and I’m not motivated enough to research and fact check you and every other clown in this AN circus but consider this, some predicted that we would run out of oil in the 90’s yet here we are, still finding it, finding ways to use it (slightly) more efficiently. Maybe Lithium will be the same… maybe other chemistries will prove better… We can’t replace every ice with a Lithium ev overnight so there is time to find more lithium or better alternatives while not belching fumes onto our streets. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 hours ago, Lacessit said: It's not a fact the current world lithium supply is 170,000 tonnes? No that's not a fact, America's recent find is between 20-40 million metric tons. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 8 hours ago, KhunLA said: You're not including (big surprise) the reserves that exist today, and not even considering the reserves they haven't found yet. 10s of millions of cubic tons. I am citing what was mined and processed into lithium metal in 2023. Or rather, the projected tonnage for last year. In 2022, it was 130,000 tonnes. Reserves in the ground don't mean much until they are dug up and refined. You think existing mines can magically expand to ten times their current output? Because that's what they need to do if you want to replace every ICE in the next 50 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 35 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: No that's not a fact, America's recent find is between 20-40 million metric tons. Read my post above to KhunLA. Then tell me how long it will take for that find to come on stream. The industry average is 5-7 years. Edited January 11 by Lacessit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 minutes ago, Lacessit said: I am citing what was mined and processed into lithium metal in 2023. Or rather, the projected tonnage for last year. In 2022, it was 130,000 tonnes. Reserves in the ground don't mean much until they are dug up and refined. You think existing mines can magically expand to ten times their current output? Because that's what they need to do if you want to replace every ICE in the next 50 years. It’s supply and demand. lithium mining was ramping up but apparently too quick and short sellers have caused the price to drop. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-05/core-lithium-mine-darwin-nt-operations-suspended-job-cuts/103287454?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 @Lacessit has the world always produced the number of barrels of oil that were produced last year ? No. Production attempts to shadow demand, please tell us that you do understand that… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, HighPriority said: It’s supply and demand. lithium mining was ramping up but apparently too quick and short sellers have caused the price to drop. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-05/core-lithium-mine-darwin-nt-operations-suspended-job-cuts/103287454?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link It's also the operating cost of the mine. The orebodies with richer content keep going, the ones with low grades are put on care and maintenance. It happens with gold all the time. Now let's take JBChiangRai's 30-40 million tonnes of lithium in the ground, the American find. I'll put it at the upper level, 40 million. Dig it up in one hit, process into lithium overnight. Then manufacture 666,666,666 EV's from it next week. Guess what? You've still only replaced 50% of the world's ICE's. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 11 minutes ago, HighPriority said: @Lacessit has the world always produced the number of barrels of oil that were produced last year ? No. Production attempts to shadow demand, please tell us that you do understand that… Actually, that observation has me wondering why EV sales are falling. Perhaps you could explain the phenomenon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 20 minutes ago, Lacessit said: Read my post above to KhunLA. Then tell me how long it will take for that find to come on stream. The industry average is 5-7 years. I did read it, how long it takes to come on stream was not mentioned in your post, it's irrelevant. The current world supply is between 20-40 million tons as I said. Discounting seawater. 1 minute ago, Lacessit said: Actually, that observation has me wondering why EV sales are falling. Perhaps you could explain the phenomenon. They aren't, another erroneous fact you spouted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said: I did read it, how long it takes to come on stream was not mentioned in your post, it's irrelevant. The current world supply is between 20-40 million tons as I said. Discounting seawater. They aren't, another erroneous fact you spouted. That's not what someone else posted. Perhaps you could post accurate information on sales, then. My post is relevant in terms of how long it will take for EV's to replace ICE's. Show me where my facts and math are wrong on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HighPriority Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, Lacessit said: It's also the operating cost of the mine. The orebodies with richer content keep going, the ones with low grades are put on care and maintenance. It happens with gold all the time. Now let's take JBChiangRai's 30-40 million tonnes of lithium in the ground, the American find. I'll put it at the upper level, 40 million. Dig it up in one hit, process into lithium overnight. Then manufacture 666,666,666 EV's from it next week. Guess what? You've still only replaced 50% of the world's ICE's. But you’re still using an artificial immediacy as your primary argument. Its like saying that no one would buy cars in 1920 because there wasn’t petrol stations dotted all over the country and there wasn’t enough petrol to fill them using 2024 volumes of cars and petrol stations. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 BYD reveals new 1000bhp-plus BMW i5 M60 rival (msn.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Lacessit said: Actually, that observation has me wondering why EV sales are falling. Perhaps you could explain the phenomenon. What ? The incredible phenomenon of too many mines starting production ? You’re obviously a city boy, never seen a farmer introduce a new crop ? If it works, all his neighbors plant the same crop the following year and no one makes any money because the market hasn’t grown to match the production. Cmon @Lacessit you are just being argumentative now, I do believe you’re better than this (and there’s some in this place I don’t think that of… 😎) Edited January 11 by HighPriority 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Just now, JBChiangRai said: BYD reveals new 1000bhp-plus BMW i5 M60 rival (msn.com) Relevance? That model is projected to be GBP 100,000, or 4.4 million baht. How many people can afford that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, Lacessit said: Relevance? That model is projected to be GBP 100,000, or 4.4 million baht. How many people can afford that? How many can afford Hummers, Porches, RR or Lamborghini ? Yet the exist and sell… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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