Tenant rights and legal avenues of prosecution to stop pump noise

[LatPhrao]

What are the solutions or avenues to solutions of condo building noise?   Moved into a Bangkok condo apartment, as it turns out with one wall adjacent to the electric pumps that filter the swimming pool.  No noise at all for two months, then the noise began, 24 hours a day, off and on.  A hyper penetrating noise impossible to block from my side. Management, mechanics and technicians excuses and could care less.  Landlord concerned, supportive but weak and easily defers to management excuses. Trying to source an attorney, so far without success.

[timendres]

Moving will be infinitely cheaper and less stressful. With an assured outcome, which the lawsuit cannot offer.

[gargamon]

Move to the Philippines. The guy living next to you will have half a dozen fighting cocks that will wake you up at 3:00am every morning.

 

Welcome to SE Asia. Stop thinking it's just like your home country. 

[Sandboxer]

I should've known better than to click this thread after the word "rights" in the title, lol....

 

Fool me once...

[bbko]

Sell and next time don't buy a place next to a mechanical room.

[LatPhrao]

The usual suspects with the usual worthless quips and pointless asides.  Move to Thailand and discover empty suit foreigners, they are legion.  Noise problems and lackluster business performance pales in comparison to useless falangs.

 

[Georgealbert]

23 minutes ago, bbko said:

Sell and next time don't buy a place next to a mechanical room.

Sorry but he can not sell, as he is renting.

 

Think the OP has to get the landlord to push harder for a resolution. As a renter the legal position to challenge the condo management is going to be very limited.

 

I am not even sure a lawyer will do anything unless retained by the unit owner.
 

Seems the owner is not looking after the OP, and is not too concerned and things, other than taking the rent.

 

So seems 3 choices

 

1. Get the landlord to sort the problem, which is their responsibility.

 

2. Move, but that may have issues depending on the lease and deposit.

 

3. Live with it and hope it stops.

 

 

[Denim]

Is this apartment rented or purchased ?

 

If purchased then ant attempt at successful  litigation is doubtful and could cost you a lot of stress and money.

 

If these pumps are serving the swimming pool it seems that they will be in a pump room. If your room is immediately adjacent to the pump room it might be useful to have a look inside to see if there is room enough between the pumps and the wall to build a false wall with a wooden frame and plasterboard. Behind this try get as much sound insulating material as possible to absorb some of the noise from the pumps. On your side of the wall, fitted wardrobes floor to ceiling would soak up more noise.

 

If you opt for litigation you will need to find out what the legal levels of noise polution are then measure to see if the noise you are getting exceeds this level. If it does you can approach the building owners and get them to pay for any soundproofing measures to avoid litigation. If less than the legal limit you will probably have to foot the bill yourself.

 

Could also be worth talking to any neighbors to see if the are also suffering noise polution. Get them on your side since the more people involved the better.

Golden rul in this kind of thing is to always be as polite and non aggresive as possible otherwise you will get less sympathy.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, LatPhrao said:

What are the solutions or avenues to solutions of condo building noise?   Moved into a Bangkok condo apartment, as it turns out with one wall adjacent to the electric pumps that filter the swimming pool.  No noise at all for two months, then the noise began, 24 hours a day, off and on.  A hyper penetrating noise impossible to block from my side. Management, mechanics and technicians excuses and could care less.  Landlord concerned, supportive but weak and easily defers to management excuses. Trying to source an attorney, so far without success.

Have you suggested a solution to the landlord 

[Dan O]

Normal operational noise is not something you have any "tights" for unfortunately. If it were a noisy neighbor that is enforceable but mechanical systems of the building there's not much in the way of enforcing 

[LatPhrao]

2 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Sorry but he can not sell, as he is renting.

 

Think the OP has to get the landlord to push harder for a resolution. As a renter the legal position to challenge the condo management is going to be very limited.

 

I am not even sure a lawyer will do anything unless retained by the unit owner.
 

Seems the owner is not looking after the OP, and is not too concerned and things, other than taking the rent.

 

So seems 3 choices

 

1. Get the landlord to sort the problem, which is their responsibility.

 

2. Move, but that may have issues depending on the lease and deposit.

 

3. Live with it and hope it stops.

 

 

Well said all.  Thanks.  The landlord is 'involved' but a bit of a wet mop about forcing a resolution,  for someone who has an apartment that the building management and staff are making an investment which can't be lived in, can't be rented, who would buy?  He is willing to surrender the deposits and close the contract.   For now at your Option #3

[LatPhrao]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Normal operational noise is not something you have any "tights" for unfortunately. If it were a noisy neighbor that is enforceable but mechanical systems of the building there's not much in the way of enforcing 

They do seem to be going with 'my way or the highway'.  It's not as if solutions are not available.  Simple purchase of a 'silent' pump and installation would resolve it.  Leaves the tenant with enforcing it with a lead pipe and/or cranking up a large ghetto blaster in their offices and waiting to see what happens next.   Thank you the advice.

[LatPhrao]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Have you suggested a solution to the landlord 

Yes, I've gotten the landlord involved and he's sympathetic up to the point of demanding they fix it.  He installed at his expense 2 layers of wall installation. We've googled silent pumps sold in Bangkok which would solve the problem and offered to share the costs.  So far to no avail.  Might as well be talking to the wall.

[LatPhrao]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

Is this apartment rented or purchased ?

 

If purchased then ant attempt at successful  litigation is doubtful and could cost you a lot of stress and money.

 

If these pumps are serving the swimming pool it seems that they will be in a pump room. If your room is immediately adjacent to the pump room it might be useful to have a look inside to see if there is room enough between the pumps and the wall to build a false wall with a wooden frame and plasterboard. Behind this try get as much sound insulating material as possible to absorb some of the noise from the pumps. On your side of the wall, fitted wardrobes floor to ceiling would soak up more noise.

 

If you opt for litigation you will need to find out what the legal levels of noise polution are then measure to see if the noise you are getting exceeds this level. If it does you can approach the building owners and get them to pay for any soundproofing measures to avoid litigation. If less than the legal limit you will probably have to foot the bill yourself.

 

Could also be worth talking to any neighbors to see if the are also suffering noise polution. Get them on your side since the more people involved the better.

Golden rul in this kind of thing is to always be as polite and non aggresive as possible otherwise you will get less sympathy.

Thank you, all well said as you've covered all aspects well. My room is the only one adjoining the pump room and noise.   Golden rule as much as possible, although now breached with my flipping the finger to the technicians who seems surprised I'm in their faces angry at 4:30 in the a.m., when the pump goes on.  Next thinking of  a loud ghetto blaster and I will visit their office for a 'sit in'.    A presposterous situation, entirely solvable with installing  a 'silent' pump.   You have to laugh, at the outset someone, a Thai, from outside had to point out to them that the bearings in the pump were bad, causing a noise akin'  to a dentist drill and a vacuum cleaner running.   That was the guy who the apartment owner hired to install 2 layers of insulation to the wall on the pump room side, that tipped the not bright building 'technicians' off to the noise source.  Thick as bricks they are.

[LatPhrao]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Normal operational noise is not something you have any "tights" for unfortunately. If it were a noisy neighbor that is enforceable but mechanical systems of the building there's not much in the way of enforcing 

A lead pipe enforcement plan is under consideration.  It's hardly 'normal', it is resolvable with silent pump installation.  The company that services the building on this is even worse than the 'technicians', bringing another pump, supposedly quiet running,  to install that's even louder than the original pump.  Morons getting paid for breathing, imho.

[Dan O]

31 minutes ago, LatPhrao said:

A lead pipe enforcement plan is under consideration.  It's hardly 'normal', it is resolvable with silent pump installation.  The company that services the building on this is even worse than the 'technicians', bringing another pump, supposedly quiet running,  to install that's even louder than the original pump.  Morons getting paid for breathing, imho.

If your implying breaking the equipment i would strongly caution you against that as you will not like the outcome. Unfortunately your rights are slim to none as a renter. The collective condo owners can petition for action which may be the only solutions as they will be footing the bill for any repairs or replacements of common area and amenity equipment. 

[bbko]

Dollars to doughnuts that place is rented out at a lower price than the other condos in the same building, why? Cause it's next to a noisy mechanical room.  That's like renting a low cost place next to a garbage dump and complainnig about the smell. 555

Edited January 13 by bbko

[reefsurfah]

6 hours ago, Dan O said:

Normal operational noise is not something you have any "tights" for unfortunately. If it were a noisy neighbor that is enforceable but mechanical systems of the building there's not much in the way of enforcing 

Tights for sure but definitely no rights 

[reefsurfah]

31 minutes ago, bbko said:

Dollars to doughnuts that place is rented out at a lower price than the other condos in the same building, why? Cause it's next to a noisy mechanical room.  That's like renting a low cost place next to a garbage dump and complainnig about the smell. 555

Without knowing the price, this may be a valid statement. 

[Lacessit]

If the landlord has offered to void the contract and return deposits, I would be out the door as fast as my feet could take me.

The landlord's "wet mop" attitude to the management IMO will change rapidly when he is stuck with a condo no one will rent. And still charged annual condo fees.

It's not the tenant's job to take legal action. It's the landlord's.

[LatPhrao]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:02 PM, bbko said:

Dollars to doughnuts that place is rented out at a lower price than the other condos in the same building, why? Cause it's next to a noisy mechanical room.  That's like renting a low cost place next to a garbage dump and complainnig about the smell. 555

Rent is standard for the building which is high and decidedly not low cost.  Pack up your doughnuts and exit stage right.

[LatPhrao]

On 1/13/2024 at 5:05 PM, Dan O said:

If your implying breaking the equipment i would strongly caution you against that as you will not like the outcome. Unfortunately your rights are slim to none as a renter. The collective condo owners can petition for action which may be the only solutions as they will be footing the bill for any repairs or replacements of common area and amenity equipment. 

Would not waste a lead pipe on equipment. Something more direct and personal in mind when pump is turned on at 12:30 or 4:30 a.m. by the morons known as 'technicians'...if you get my drift.

[bbko]

30 minutes ago, LatPhrao said:

Rent is standard for the building which is high and decidedly not low cost.  Pack up your doughnuts and exit stage right.

So the rent for a upper floor condo is the exact same price for a room next to a pool pump room??

[LatPhrao]

1 hour ago, bbko said:

So the rent for a upper floor condo is the exact same price for a room next to a pool pump room??

Yep, the same and more than some others.   I wasn't aware or made aware of the pump noise at contract.  And for first 2.5 months of rental there was not a pump noise experienced  in the room next to the pool pump room.   Go figure.  I think that a pump went off due to broken bearings. That was replaced, finally.  And then one or another pump was in use in 24 hours - with noise issues but not at the piercing level of the pump with broken bearings.  The whole thing could be sorted  I believe with a purchase and use of one of the 'silent' pumps available, prices can be 8000+.  The landlord and I have offered to share the cost with the building.  So far it's been like talking to your hand.  The mentality of the Thais involved is stupefying!

 

Edited January 17 by LatPhrao
add-on

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, LatPhrao said:

Would not waste a lead pipe on equipment. Something more direct and personal in mind when pump is turned on at 12:30 or 4:30 a.m. by the morons known as 'technicians'...if you get my drift.

Again not a wise move even with the frustration and annoyance your having.  It would be far easier and better to move and not continue to deal with the situation as you have no leverage on the issue.

[Elkski]

Some decibel numbers may help your pleas.  Sounds like the pump bearing went bad.  Then rebuilt pump same.  Maybe a pump rebuilt by an outside reputable p7mp shop would be quieter.  

[LatPhrao]

14 hours ago, Dan O said:

Again not a wise move even with the frustration and annoyance your having.  It would be far easier and better to move and not continue to deal with the situation as you have no leverage on the issue.

Yes of course and thank you the wise advice.  There is good news just in today, the landlord/owner has come off the sidelines finally, after my continued comments and venting frustrations to him,  as he  has become actively involved in dialogue with the management over the practical details.  He has also written letters to management and the board. I've decided to give him the floor then, as he is both Thai and is positioned to speak directly to the board and dialogue with the management.  Not out of the woods yet.  If there's a solution to be found, this is the way. Meanwhile I continue to dialogue and review other locations with Property Scout for other properties in the area.  Appointment tomorrow.

[Delight]

 If a pump is noisy then the likely cause is cavitation.

The root cause of this is a consequence of too long an inlet pipe and too small an inlet pipe..

 

The inlet pipe needs to be short and fat

 

 

 

These two limitations can be fixed.

 

.

[mstevens]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:51 PM, gargamon said:

Move to the Philippines. The guy living next to you will have half a dozen fighting cocks that will wake you up at 3:00am every morning.

 

Welcome to SE Asia. Stop thinking it's just like your home country. 

 

Most urban Thais would not accept this at all. Decent, hard-working, middle-class Thais are as intolerant of unreasonable noises that affect their enjoyment of life as are most Westerners.

[Banana7]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:55 PM, LatPhrao said:

Well said all.  Thanks.  The landlord is 'involved' but a bit of a wet mop about forcing a resolution,  for someone who has an apartment that the building management and staff are making an investment which can't be lived in, can't be rented, who would buy?  He is willing to surrender the deposits and close the contract.   For now at your Option #3

I'd be taking that deposit, closing the contract and moving. It may never be fixed to your satisfaction.