Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: Let's say a couple of criminals come to your home. What do you expect the police to do? Bomb your home and kill just everybody? Or would you expect that they send a SWAT team and kill only the criminals? It's not really that difficult to understand. We aren't talking about my home . What do you think should happen to people who murdered and raped and took hostages on Oct 7 th? Should they be bought to justice or allowed to get away with their crimes and potentially commit more similar crimes ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brickleberry Posted January 27 Popular Post Share Posted January 27 6 minutes ago, WDSmart said: If we on this forum argue over such stupid things and call each other names, how could we ever expect Hamas and Zionists to come to any kind of reasonable agreement? We can't expect Zionists & Hamas to come to any agreement. Both parties believe they have sole rights to all of the land between the river and the sea. Israel is right to try and remove Hamas, but they are doing it in the wrong way. You don't blow up entire buildings because one or two terrorists - who are using guerrilla warfare tactics - have popped off a few rounds and then scurried back into their tunnels. You don't warn an entire population to move, and then blow up all of the buildings. Surely warning the terrorists that this area will be bombed is not a good strategy for killing the enemy. But it does make life in Gaza even more unbearable for the poor souls left to live in the rubble. This is why I believe they are committing ethnic cleansing of the area, and committing thousands of war crimes as they are being very indiscriminate with their methods. Anyone who is afraid of the ICC investigating war crimes is obviously guilty of them, and this is precisely why Israel won't allow any investigations. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56687437 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, Brickleberry said: We can't expect Zionists & Hamas to come to any agreement. Both parties believe they have sole rights to all of the land between the river and the sea. Israel is right to try and remove Hamas, but they are doing it in the wrong way. You don't blow up entire buildings because one or two terrorists - who are using guerrilla warfare tactics - have popped off a few rounds and then scurried back into their tunnels. You don't warn an entire population to move, and then blow up all of the buildings. Surely warning the terrorists that this area will be bombed is not a good strategy for killing the enemy. But it does make life in Gaza even more unbearable for the poor souls left to live in the rubble. This is why I believe they are committing ethnic cleansing of the area, and committing thousands of war crimes as they are being very indiscriminate with their methods. Anyone who is afraid of the ICC investigating war crimes is obviously guilty of them, and this is precisely why Israel won't allow any investigations. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56687437 Anyone who is afraid of the ICC investigating war crimes is obviously guilty of them, and this is precisely why Israel won't allow any investigations. You don't need to co-operate with the ICC investigations, if there is evidence the ICC will go ahead and investigate anyway, which it is. It is investigating both Palestinians and Israelis since 2021. Oh you forgot, the Palestinians also refuse to co-operate. Putin did not co-operate, he has an arrest warrant out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: Imagine 10 Hamas fighter would be in the basement of an Israeli hospital. Would Israel just bomb the whole hospital? Or would they fight only the bad guys in the basement? They could to the same in Palestinian hospitals. But then, they call Palestinians "animals" and there is obviously no need to care about a few animals. They are just collateral damage. Who cares. And about Palestinians supporting Hamas. I was never in that situation. But I guess if I would see a foreign army invading my city and killing my family and friends, then I would also support the local freedom fighters. Or maybe I would join them to fight the invaders. You need to watch this and listen. Yes there are two sides to this, but one side aint what they pretend to be. As he honestly and bravely points out - you canot just 'separate' Hamas and Civilians - there are terrorists in every family. For decades they were indoctrinated into killing Jews. Even Egypt will not allow them to enter their country - they know that many of them are terrorists in disguise as civilians. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: You need to watch this and listen. Yes there are two sides to this, but one side aint what they pretend to be. As he honestly and bravely points out - you canot just 'separate' Hamas and Civilians - there are terrorists in every family. For decades they were indoctrinated into killing Jews. Even Egypt will not allow them to enter their country - they know that many of them are terrorists in disguise as civilians. Yes, there are two sides, and neither side is what it pretends to be. One side is trying to expel those who are forcibly occupying land that they have lived in for centuries and believe is theirs. The other side is trying to occupy land that they believe has been given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world and their "God" by expelling the former occupants I see no end to this conflict. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: Yes, there are two sides, and neither side is what it pretends to be. One side is trying to expel those who are forcibly occupying land that they have lived in for centuries and believe is theirs. The other side is trying to occupy land that they believe has been given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world and their "God" by expelling the former occupants I see no end to this conflict. I agree about no end to this conflict. The rest is opinion that I do not agree with because it is irrelevent and a construed story. 1. What happenned after WW2 is not going to be undone - history is land being acquired by others. Remember, the Jews have lived there for a lot longer than the 'Palestinians'. 2. Jews who had settled in Gaza/West Bank were forcibly removed by Israel when they withdrew and handed over the Gaza to the PLO in 2005. 3. Hamas was elected to power in 2006 and they killed their political opponents (PLO) and embarked upon decades of terrorism. 4. There are many Muslims in Israel - 20% of the population is Muslim I believe. They have Muslim Judges, Politicians, Businessmen, etc etc. Islam in Israel - Wikipedia 4. There are zero Jews in Gaza - they were and are killed on sight. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Popular Post Share Posted January 27 8 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yes, there are two sides, and neither side is what it pretends to be. One side is trying to expel those who are forcibly occupying land that they have lived in for centuries and believe is theirs. The other side is trying to occupy land that they believe has been given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world and their "God" by expelling the former occupants I see no end to this conflict. Your knowledge on the subject is minimal , maybe you should read more and write less ? Otherwise posters must spend their time continually correcting your mistakes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: 4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: Let's say a couple of criminals come to your home. What do you expect the police to do? Bomb your home and kill just everybody? Or would you expect that they send a SWAT team and kill only the criminals? It's not really that difficult to understand. I'm only responding to the @OneMoreFarang post quoted above... Let's say you live in a great big two- or three-story house a total of 10 rooms. You live there mostly with your family and just a few others. One day, someone comes who claims to "own" the house and tells you that they have given it to another family who will be moving in over the next several weeks. As this new family moves in, they slowly force your family out of the rooms they occupied, often by force, and eventually into just two rooms, which are, of course, now very crowded. That's an analogy of what's happened to the large house called "Palestine" that is now called "Israel." The two single rooms where your family lives now are on different floors, and the occupants are not allowed to freely visit each other. These rooms are called "Gaza" and "The West Bank." How would you feel, and what would you try to do about it? Again, and as always, this is MY OPINION as to what has happened in Palestine over the past hundred years or so. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: 22 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yes, there are two sides, and neither side is what it pretends to be. One side is trying to expel those who are forcibly occupying land that they have lived in for centuries and believe is theirs. The other side is trying to occupy land that they believe has been given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world and their "God" by expelling the former occupants I see no end to this conflict. Your knowledge on the subject is minimal , maybe you should read more and write less ? Otherwise posters must spend their time continually correcting your mistakes Please point out my mistakes.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 37 minutes ago, Brickleberry said: We can't expect Zionists & Hamas to come to any agreement. Both parties believe they have sole rights to all of the land between the river and the sea. Israel is right to try and remove Hamas, but they are doing it in the wrong way. You don't blow up entire buildings because one or two terrorists - who are using guerrilla warfare tactics - have popped off a few rounds and then scurried back into their tunnels. You don't warn an entire population to move, and then blow up all of the buildings. Surely warning the terrorists that this area will be bombed is not a good strategy for killing the enemy. But it does make life in Gaza even more unbearable for the poor souls left to live in the rubble. This is why I believe they are committing ethnic cleansing of the area, and committing thousands of war crimes as they are being very indiscriminate with their methods. Anyone who is afraid of the ICC investigating war crimes is obviously guilty of them, and this is precisely why Israel won't allow any investigations. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56687437 Exactly how do the IDF get Hamas then?? Your the 'expert' - tell us exactly how they do it !! Israel did what it has the right to do (10 years too late IMO) they have declared war on Hamas the el;ected leaders of Gaza. The IDF are trying to minimise civilians casualties - Hamas is tryiong to maximise them - because silly people in the world will rally to their cause. By the way, pray tell us all great one - how was the world supposed to kill the Nazis but not any of the Germans in WW2. Remember this too - the Germans soldiers in WW2 wore uniforms - the Hamas soldiers dont all wear a 'uniform' - just look at all the scumbags that invaded Israel and randomnly raped, butchered and killed Jews - they were not wearing a uniform. Maybe the Palestinians in Gaza should be given a certain amount of time to get, and then blow everything up - all of it. That worked against the Nazis and Japan - so why does Israel not do it again. Be aware I dont agree with that - but if this is not 'resolved' and Hamas or Hezbola (aided by Iran) explode a nuclear device in Israel - I can see Israel doing just that - and I would not blame them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: Maybe the Palestinians in Gaza should be given a certain amount of time to get, and then blow everything up - all of it. Israel have absolutely no right to tell Gazans to get out of their homes, what utter nonsense. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 6 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I'm only responding to the @OneMoreFarang post quoted above... Let's say you live in a great big two- or three-story house a total of 10 rooms. You live there mostly with your family and just a few others. One day, someone comes who claims to "own" the house and tells you that they have given it to another family who will be moving in over the next several weeks. As this new family moves in, they slowly force your family out of the rooms they occupied, often by force, and eventually into just two rooms, which are, of course, now very crowded. That's an analogy of what's happened to the large house called "Palestine" that is now called "Israel." The two single rooms where your family lives now are on different floors, and the occupants are not allowed to freely visit each other. These rooms are called "Gaza" and "The West Bank." How would you feel, and what would you try to do about it? Again, and as always, this is MY OPINION as to what has happened in Palestine over the past hundred years or so. And it is still ignorant and silly because the history of the world is conquest and change of lands. Why do you think so many Jews lived in Europe and not in their ancestral lands? Because the Muslims killed them and drove many of them out. If you want to play this 'victim of history' game then the Jews beat you hands down mate. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Popular Post Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Please point out my mistakes.... It was the then 57 member states of the U.N who voted for the creation of Israel in 1947, U.N members which included India , Thailand, Venezuela, Haiti , Cuba, Liberia , rather than "given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world " 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Just now, Neeranam said: Israel have absolutely no right to tell Gazans to get out of their homes, what utter nonsense. In a war these are the things that happen - it is not about 'rights' anymore. WW1 started because a Prince was assasinated. WW2 started because German reclaimed that part of Poland that had not been already invaded by USSR (and were welcomed by most of the population). The Israel-Hamas war of 2023/24 was started when Palestinians invaded Israel, killed 1400 and took hundreds back to Gaza as prisoners. It is a war mate - the BS rights you think apply in Gaza are as BS as what you probably think are your rights in Thailand. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 13 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: I agree about no end to this conflict. The rest is opinion that I do not agree with because it is irrelevent and a construed story. 1. What happenned after WW2 is not going to be undone - history is land being acquired by others. Remember, the Jews have lived there for a lot longer than the 'Palestinians'. 2. Jews who had settled in Gaza/West Bank were forcibly removed by Israel when they withdrew and handed over the Gaza to the PLO in 2005. 3. Hamas was elected to power in 2006 and they killed their political opponents (PLO) and embarked upon decades of terrorism. 4. There are many Muslims in Israel - 20% of the population is Muslim I believe. They have Muslim Judges, Politicians, Businessmen, etc etc. Islam in Israel - Wikipedia 4. There are zero Jews in Gaza - they were and are killed on sight. We agree there will be no end to this conflict. I won't bother responding to your points one by one, but I will say I only completely disagree with #1 if you believe in the story of Exodus in the Old Testament or the Torah. Anyway, in the 1920s, the Jewish population in the territory called Palestine was only about 9%. Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 54 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Let's say you live in a great big two- or three-story house a total of 10 rooms. You live there mostly with your family and just a few others. One day, someone comes who claims to "own" the house and tells you that they have given it to another family who will be moving in over the next several weeks. As this new family moves in, they slowly force your family out of the rooms they occupied, often by force, and eventually into just two rooms, which are, of course, now very crowded. That's an analogy of what's happened to the large house called "Palestine" that is now called "Israel." The two single rooms where your family lives now are on different floors, and the occupants are not allowed to freely visit each other. These rooms are called "Gaza" and "The West Bank." Excellent analogy, however some here are strong Zionists who will gaslight, ridicule, insult posts such as yours. It doesn't fit their narrative and you must admit that Israel have never done any wrong and it was all the Palestinians fault and the 'war' happened because of events on Oct 7. They refuse to believe there is Apartheid in Israel, despite UN and other agencies saying there is. They refuse to believe Israelis treat Arabs as second class citizens, even if they were born in Israel. You just can't debate in a grown up way with this type... 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: It was the then 57 member states of the U.N who voted for the creation of Israel in 1947, U.N members which included India , Thailand, Venezuela, Haiti , Cuba, Liberia , rather than "given to them by the most powerful Western states of the world " Yes, the UN voted for that. The occupants of the territory, the Palestinians, didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 47 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: In a war these are the things that happen - it is not about 'rights' anymore. WW1 started because a Prince was assasinated. WW2 started because German reclaimed that part of Poland that had not been already invaded by USSR (and were welcomed by most of the population). The Israel-Hamas war of 2023/24 was started when Palestinians invaded Israel, killed 1400 and took hundreds back to Gaza as prisoners. It is a war mate - the BS rights you think apply in Gaza are as BS as what you probably think are your rights in Thailand. Attributing the start of this conflict solely to one party is contentious, given the region's intricate history. Some narratives suggest that Israel's establishment in 1948 catalyzed tensions and subsequent conflicts in the region. The partition of Palestine by the United Nations, leading to the creation of the state of Israel, resulted in the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, engendering deep-seated resentment and hostility. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, immediately following Israel's declaration of independence, saw neighboring Arab states invading to support Palestinian interests and contest Israel's existence. Subsequent events, including the 1967 Six-Day War, where Israel captured territories such as the West Bank and Gaza Strip, further entrenched hostilities and fueled Palestinian resistance movements. Israel's policies regarding settlements, land annexation, and occupation have been contentious points, exacerbating tensions and contributing to the perpetuation of the conflict in the region. Israel played a significant role in initiating and perpetuating this conflict. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Just now, WDSmart said: We agree there will be no end to this conflict. I won't bother responding to your points one by one, but I will say I only completely disagree with #1 if you believe in the story of Exodus in the Old Testament or the Torah. Anyway, in the 1920s, the Jewish population in the territory called Palestine was only about 9%. Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY There will be an end to the conflict only when one side is destroyed - whichever one. 1920s?? Are you serious - the Jews lived in those lands thousands of years ago. When WW2 ended there was still a lot of Jews living in those lands. When WW2 ended many more Jews returned to their 'homeland'. History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, WDSmart said: We agree there will be no end to this conflict. I won't bother responding to your points one by one, but I will say I only completely disagree with #1 if you believe in the story of Exodus in the Old Testament or the Torah. Anyway, in the 1920s, the Jewish population in the territory called Palestine was only about 9%. Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY Wasn't that because Jews got expelled from the land previously or were forced to convert to Islam ? Many Palestinians are former Jews who were forced to convert to Islam , that is why other Muslims don't like Palestinians too much , but are happy to use the Palestinian cause to fight against Jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yes, the UN voted for that. The occupants of the territory, the Palestinians, didn't. I was just pointing out your mistakes , as requested 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 32 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: 4. There are many Muslims in Israel - 20% of the population is Muslim I believe. They have Muslim Judges, Politicians, Businessmen, etc etc. They don't have equal rights. It's easier for Jews from other countries to become an Israeli citizen that a Palestinian who marries an Israeli , for example. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: 7 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY There will be an end to the conflict only when one side is destroyed - whichever one. 1920s?? Are you serious - the Jews lived in those lands thousands of years ago. When WW2 ended there was still a lot of Jews living in those lands. When WW2 ended many more Jews returned to their 'homeland'. History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia If you read the information in the link I noted above, you'll see that the Jews historically were not the inhabitants of that land. And it wasn't until the 1920s that the land of Palestine was suggested to be "given" to the Jews (by the UK) as their "homeland." But yes, after WW2, many, many Jews from Europe immigrated to what is now called "Israel." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 minute ago, Neeranam said: They don't have equal rights. It's easier for Jews from other countries to become an Israeli citizen that a Palestinian who marries an Israeli , for example. Have those Hamas guys who took Israeli female hostages on Oct 7 th and raped them and impregnated them and so are now officially married to them, have those guys applied for Israeli citizenship ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Popular Post Share Posted January 27 10 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yes, the UN voted for that. The occupants of the territory, the Palestinians, didn't. There was no such thing as a Palestine - there never has been. The name started when the Rponas won the second Roman/Jewish war. The lands of the area were not what you think - especially Jordan - you need to learn some history. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 6 minutes ago, Neeranam said: They don't have equal rights. It's easier for Jews from other countries to become an Israeli citizen that a Palestinian who marries an Israeli , for example. Muslims can become full Israel citizens - many of them are - nearly 2 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Have those Hamas guys who took Israeli female hostages on Oct 7 th and raped them and impregnated them and so are now officially married to them, have those guys applied for Israeli citizenship ? Well said mate - I wonder if the pro-Hamas side understand the irony of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroubleandGrumpy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 38 minutes ago, WDSmart said: If you read the information in the link I noted above, you'll see that the Jews historically were not the inhabitants of that land If you read my link you will see that is total rubbish. The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel begins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites, During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed but then split into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone history of jews in israel - Google Search Edited January 27 by stats oversized text normalized 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 11 minutes ago, WDSmart said: If you read the information in the link I noted above, you'll see that the Jews historically were not the inhabitants of that land. And it wasn't until the 1920s that the land of Palestine was suggested to be "given" to the Jews (by the UK) as their "homeland." But yes, after WW2, many, many Jews from Europe immigrated to what is now called "Israel." Jesus was a Jew, right . Do you know where Jesus was born and when ? This a temple from 3000 years ago Its a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem , from 3000 years ago (and parts of that Temple are still there today) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said: There was no such thing as a Palestine - there never has been. The name started when the Rponas won the second Roman/Jewish war. The lands of the area were not what you think - especially Jordan - you need to learn some history. I've read enough of the history to know all I need to understand the nature of this conflict. The land was initially called "Canaan" in the Bible and Torah and was also then called "Palestine" after the Arab peoples who lived there called the Philistines. Here is my favorite site on the history of the area: Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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