Questions regarding April Expat Insurance

[SooKee]

Just by way of some further info regarding April France.

I have a policy with them (originally started via AA Brokers here when they were still able to deal in international policies) and, at age 65 now, I have just received my renewal premium notice from April France direct for 2024. The premium is up to $3,480 from $2,682 last year, that's a 30% hike, doubtless as result of jumping to the 65 year old plus age band, 30% is still some significant jump though.  I dread to think what the 70 year old hike will be!  I have zero existing conditions and have made no claims so it's not a condition inflated premium either.  I started with April in 2020 when the premium was $2,117 so it sure ratchets up, 80% in 5 years!

Fortunately I could cover a THB 1-3m bill here, and replenish the funds quite quickly and still have the liquidity I need.  Given the 30% jump, over the next 5 years that will probably amount to $20,000+ in insurance premiums assuming the price will still rise year on year.  The peace of mind is nice to have, even though I've never had to use the policy, but it's definitely more palatable to have to write off $2,000 a year than it is $3,500 - 4,000.  Provided one is able to realistically access your other options (e.g. not just assume that THB 100,000 in a bank account will cover it) I can easily see why folks take a far more critical view of the benefits of such policies as the costs sky-rocket, and that's not a sensationalist term IMO!  I very much doubt my premium will be much under $5,000 in 4 years time.

Decisions decisions.

As an aside, for the first time this year, I have been subject to a lot of persistent pestering by the AA World Insure (the India based outfit?) that took over the international policy side once AA Thailand stopped being involved with managing international policies here.  3 emails and 2 phone calls in the last couple of days, got to the point where I had to be pretty blunt and curt with them saying that I will contact them, if I need to, when I am good and ready, not before.  Last year IIRC I renewed with April France direct as I had no intention of processing any payment through AA World.  Pity that AA Thailand had to bail out, from the very little interaction I've had I don't rate the replacement outfit at all!

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, SooKee said:

Just by way of some further info regarding April France.

I have a policy with them (originally started via AA Brokers here when they were still able to deal in international policies) and, at age 65 now, I have just received my renewal premium notice from April France direct for 2024. The premium is up to $3,480 from $2,682 last year, that's a 30% hike, doubtless as result of jumping to the 65 year old plus age band, 30% is still some significant jump though.  I dread to think what the 70 year old hike will be!  I have zero existing conditions and have made no claims so it's not a condition inflated premium either.  I started with April in 2020 when the premium was $2,117 so it sure ratchets up, 80% in 5 years!

Fortunately I could cover a THB 1-3m bill here, and replenish the funds quite quickly and still have the liquidity I need.  Given the 30% jump, over the next 5 years that will probably amount to $20,000+ in insurance premiums assuming the price will still rise year on year.  The peace of mind is nice to have, even though I've never had to use the policy, but it's definitely more palatable to have to write off $2,000 a year than it is $3,500 - 4,000.  Provided one is able to realistically access your other options (e.g. not just assume that THB 100,000 in a bank account will cover it) I can easily see why folks take a far more critical view of the benefits of such policies as the costs sky-rocket, and that's not a sensationalist term IMO!  I very much doubt my premium will be much under $5,000 in 4 years time.

Decisions decisions.

As an aside, for the first time this year, I have been subject to a lot of persistent pestering by the AA World Insure (the India based outfit?) that took over the international policy side once AA Thailand stopped being involved with managing international policies here.  3 emails and 2 phone calls in the last couple of days, got to the point where I had to be pretty blunt and curt with them saying that I will contact them, if I need to, when I am good and ready, not before.  Last year IIRC I renewed with April France direct as I had no intention of processing any payment through AA World.  Pity that AA Thailand had to bail out, from the very little interaction I've had I don't rate the replacement outfit at all!

You've realised what everyone should know prior to starting the insurance, how much will the insurance rise over the years and can i afford it / do i want to pay that much. The broker should provide the premiums at different age bands, of course it will be higher than that as they will go up 📈

[SooKee]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You've realised what everyone should know prior to starting the insurance, how much will the insurance rise over the years and can i afford it / do i want to pay that much. The broker should provide the premiums at different age bands, of course it will be higher than that as they will go up 📈

I realised it before I started and was aware that the prices would increase and had already made my plans as to when I may avail myself of other options, primarily on reaching the 65 and 70 year old premium points.

 

 It's always a balance with insurance, great value if you need it, money down the drain if you don't.  While the peace of mind may be worth it when the costs are not excessive (and what is considered excessive will vary from person to person), you may well consider that having insurance is likely a very good idea.  The sums that you can put aside though increase significantly as one gets older, but at the same time, so does the likelihood that you will need it.  It will always be a balancing act but folks should not underestimate the price hikes that will be likely once you cross the 65 and then 70 year old bracket.  There may also be a point at which you will no longer be insured and as you get closer to that point, with the premiums going through the roof, the extent to which you are prepared to just write off the premiums may change.  

 

Of course cancelling insurance having never used it will also mean the premiums you've already paid are down the drain too, be great if we could all see into the future eh, hindsight is great.  Sadly, unlike auto insurance, there's no no-claims bonus with health insurance.

 

Edited March 15 by SooKee

[Sheryl]

I have heard that April is reclassifying Thailand as a Group 2 rather than Group 3 country due to the substantial increases in privaye health care here.

 

Would explain big increase this year.  

[SooKee]

I made my posts mainly because the OP was asking about April and some people do not conduct full research, particularly regarding likely future costs, my premium notice had just arrived too.  I will most likely renew (once the shock of the 30% hike in premium from last year has worn off LOL) though I will likely try to find another broker to do it with (assuming they can take over as an agent for an existing policy) as I don't feel comfortable with AA World.  I may even consider a higher deductible depending on how much it brings the cost of the premium down by.

Self-insurance for me is an option as I have both the funds and the means to replace them but, another thing that some people overlook, that's assuming it's just one hit for for something serious, maybe two.  If you are unfortunate enough to succumb to something serious that requires ongoing treatment, that's when folks might encounter problems.  Making plans to cover the the eventuality of a single 1-3 million baht hospital bill might be easy enough, what if it's 1-3 million per year though?

[SooKee]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

I have heard that April is reclassifying Thailand as a Group 2 rather than Group 3 country due to the substantial increases in privaye health care here.

 

Would explain big increase this year.  

 

Very, very good point!!  I was expecting a hike for hitting the 65+ age bracket but I thought 30% was a bit high, even for that.

I'll likely renew but I need to try and find another broker as I don't feel comfortable with AA World, that's if one broker can take on a policy started with another broker.  AA World keep saying "as your broker" etc etc.  Trouble is, they aren't.  They inherited it from AA Thailand.  Maybe a new broker will be able to if they effectively start a new policy that merely continues a policy with April that has no breaks.

[SooKee]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I have heard that April is reclassifying Thailand as a Group 2 rather than Group 3 country due to the substantial increases in privaye health care here.

 

Would explain big increase this year.  

 

Just checked my premium notice.  Still shows as Zone 3, unless that's a typo as in, it's showing the zone that Thailand was in when the policy was taken out?  They may have a good track record on payment, I've never found their admin systems / responsiveness to be that good.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, SooKee said:

 

Just checked my premium notice.  Still shows as Zone 3, unless that's a typo as in, it's showing the zone that Thailand was in when the policy was taken out?  They may have a good track record on payment, I've never found their admin systems / responsiveness to be that good.

Yes payment is fine.

 

I just heard this news about Zone change.  What is the date of your premium notice? 

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Yes payment is fine.

 

I just heard this news about Zone change.  What is the date of your premium notice? 

 

It doesn't have a date on it, I'm viewing from a link provided in an email from April France direct, the email is dated 7 March.

As was pointed out above, folks should indeed make enquiries with their brokers as to estimated costs of policy renewal over the coming years.  Of course those estimates are bound to increase due to inflation and other factors.   But there's increases and there's increases!

 

As an example, in April 2022, the forecast for my premiums were:

Age Bands

61-65: $2,380 (only a couple of hundred out when the premium became due in 2023)

 

66-70: $2,790

71-75: $3,196

76-80: $3,611

My premium notice for 2024 at age 65? $3,480!  

So the estimates were not even remotely close and the premium now due is only just below that forecast for the 76-80 age band and $1,100 more than what the forecast said I should be paying now!  That degree of inaccuracy within a space of just 2 years effectively makes these forecasts totally pointless IMO, at leat insofar as April are concerned, and certainly not anything one should rely on!  A 30% / $800 increase over last year while still in the same age band warrants an explanation for sure, one that I have asked for.  A few hundred out one might expect, even 3-400 over 2 years, but $1,100!

So yes, do the research and obtain estimates of policy costs as you reach certain age bands, but do not rely on the them to be anything like accurate, mine is out by $1,100 on the estimated cost of my renewal from just 2 years ago.  Go figure.  Suffice it to say, the reputation of April has taken a considerable nose-dive, at least from my perspective.

Edited March 15 by SooKee

[Y Chang]

6 hours ago, SooKee said:

I realized it before I started and was aware that the prices would increase and had already made my plans as to when I may avail myself of other options, primarily on reaching the 65 and 70 year old premium points.

 

 It's always a balance with insurance, great value if you need it, money down the drain if you don't.  While the peace of mind may be worth it when the costs are not excessive (and what is considered excessive will vary from person to person), you may well consider that having insurance is likely a very good idea.  The sums that you can put aside though increase significantly as one gets older, but at the same time, so does the likelihood that you will need it.  It will always be a balancing act but folks should not underestimate the price hikes that will be likely once you cross the 65 and then 70 year old bracket.  There may also be a point at which you will no longer be insured and as you get closer to that point, with the premiums going through the roof, the extent to which you are prepared to just write off the premiums may change.  

 

Of course cancelling insurance having never used it will also mean the premiums you've already paid are down the drain too, be great if we could all see into the future eh, hindsight is great.  Sadly, unlike auto insurance, there's no no-claims bonus with health insurance.

 

SooKee, I am the OP and thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I completely concur with you!

 

When I posted my inquiry regarding April insurance, I also explored other options.  What I noticed was that there is a big jump of ~40% or more when hitting the 65/66 years old age band.  For the other AseanNow members who might be interested, the table below includes a few examples to illustrate this jump:

 

 

A quick calculation shows that there is a jump of at least 38% once one hits 65 or 66.  These premium data are provided by the insurance company sales or broker and based on selecting the highest possible deductible; they apply to 2024's rate, so next year these numbers will again go up due to inflation, adjustment etc. 

 

SooKee, like you mention, finding the right balance between insurance and self-insured is tricky.  The older we get, the harder it is!  And again, thank you for sharing your experience.

 

 

[SooKee]

55 minutes ago, Y Chang said:

SooKee, I am the OP and thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I completely concur with you!

 

When I posted my inquiry regarding April insurance, I also explored other options.  What I noticed was that there is a big jump of ~40% or more when hitting the 65/66 years old age band.  For the other AseanNow members who might be interested, the table below includes a few examples to illustrate this jump:

 

 

A quick calculation shows that there is a jump of at least 38% once one hits 65 or 66.  These premium data are provided by the insurance company sales or broker and based on selecting the highest possible deductible; they apply to 2024's rate, so next year these numbers will again go up due to inflation, adjustment etc. 

 

SooKee, like you mention, finding the right balance between insurance and self-insured is tricky.  The older we get, the harder it is!  And again, thank you for sharing your experience.

 

 

 

 

You're welcome.  It's also timely as my renewal is due on 5 April and a few more facts have been unearthed!

As Sheryl indicated, AOC Brokers in France have confirmed that from 1st April 2024 (a well chosen date perhaps), April will re-classify Thailand from a region 3 country to region 2.  This will have significant consequences in terms of premiums both now and in the future and is doubtless the reason for my $800 premium hike!  Of course, April have communicated nothing whatsoever about this, just bumped up the premium and kept quiet.  I have to say though that this does not surprise me at all as I find communication from, and corresponding with, April extremely frustrating to say the least, even when they billed my card twice for a premium, obtaining the refund was far more difficult than it should have been!  The term incompetent I think is not too strong.  Moving Thailand to region 2 does in this case seem to be the significant spanner in the works in terms of derailing premium forecasts!

In addition, the AOC broker said that the service from April has got much much worse as the company has grown to such an extent, and I quote "We must fight every day for our clients.".  This is in stark contrast to the reputation they had 4 years ago.

I now have severe reservations about renewing with April and, as has been suggested by AOC, I will explore other alternatives with them.  Whether AOC is the best option for me as a broker I don't know, I originally contacted them as they are based in France and thought they may be a good option to switch to from AA World given April is also France based.  Now my renewing with April seems at least very unlikely, the broker location may be less important.

Being a UK citizen though,  I may well just opt for a UK broker, I don't really think the location of the broker makes much of a difference though, except maybe where making a payment is concerned (e.g. where your bank accounts are).  Despite looking for options I was always getting hit with a foreign currency transaction fee by paying $US premiums with a UK card, like a £65 / $82 fee!  I even tried to explore paying the US$ account in France using Wise but "Computer says no" was the response from them, it may have changed now.

April for me though will most likely be off the list of options and I think anyone thinking of going with them would be wise to do a LOT of research first.

 

Finally, when AA World started mailing me about my premium, they actually seemed very interested in getting me to discuss other options, sending me premium overview document listing several companies with Regency (surprise surprise) being at the top in terms of 'stars' for customer rating and price (e.g. low).  The premiums listed for other companies also made little sense with a few April options priced at over $9,000!  Something odd here.

Edited March 15 by SooKee

[Sheryl]

All else being equal, it is advantageous to have a broker located in same country as the insurer.

[Sigmund]

Look also how the home insurance works in Thailand. A real nightmare with many firms even via brokers, that only offer partial coverage in their packages or rule out certain items from their policies like all electronic portable media (that means laptops etc9, they harass and ask for every invoice, ask for pictures, invade fully one's privacy...better to shop if possible for home insurance in europe where many firms offer coverage for residences abroad with more reliable policies.

[SooKee]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

All else being equal, it is advantageous to have a broker located in same country as the insurer.

 

Right, I'll bear that in mind while I look for alternatives.

[SooKee]

13 hours ago, Sigmund said:

Look also how the home insurance works in Thailand. A real nightmare with many firms even via brokers, that only offer partial coverage in their packages or rule out certain items from their policies like all electronic portable media (that means laptops etc9, they harass and ask for every invoice, ask for pictures, invade fully one's privacy...better to shop if possible for home insurance in europe where many firms offer coverage for residences abroad with more reliable policies.

 

Oh for sure, as I shop around, Thai providers will most definitely not be on the list, I ruled out Thai providers from the outset.  April re-classifying Thailand to region 2 will effectively increase their premiums by at least 25% I would think, looking for another provider is not something I relish the thought of however.  Of course, it may well be that April will not be the only company to change the region Thailand is in for premium calculation, so it could be a lot of effort to go from the frying pan into the fire.  The comments from the broker about April's (France) declining service, coupled with the difficulties when trying to correspond with them and, in particular, the total lack of communication from them about the shifting of Thailand to region 2 really makes renewing with them seems somewhat foolhardy.

[david_je]

23 hours ago, SooKee said:

 

Just checked my premium notice.  Still shows as Zone 3, unless that's a typo as in, it's showing the zone that Thailand was in when the policy was taken out?  They may have a good track record on payment, I've never found their admin systems / responsiveness to be that good.

 

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes payment is fine.

 

I just heard this news about Zone change.  What is the date of your premium notice? 

My premium notice, for renewal starting May 4. also says Zone 3. It's Essential, $500 deductible, if that makes a difference.

Where is zone change officially stated? 

And if it's true, do you plan to change to another insurer because of this? Assume it would be difficult for anyone past 65.

Thanks.

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, david_je said:

 

My premium notice, for renewal starting May 4. also says Zone 3. It's Essential, $500 deductible, if that makes a difference.

Where is zone change officially stated? 

And if it's true, do you plan to change to another insurer because of this? Assume it would be difficult for anyone past 65.

Thanks.

 

The information comes from broker (second hand, per other board member. I have not yet contacted broker mysekf).  Supposedly effective 1 April. Since your premium notice has already been issued possibly you escaped it this year for that reason...unless its application is limited to new policies. 

 

My premium notice is not yet issued as comes due in  August.

 

Difficulty in changing insurers  relates to pre-existing conditions more than age.

 

For myself I think a change is not feasible as I now have hypertension (well-controlled, but requiring medication) and degenerative spinal changes which led to 3 insurance claims in recent years. So I think I will have to stay with April.   I may do some research on that  but can't imagine any insurer woukd not at least exclude all spinal problems. 

 

I might increase my deductible depending on what premium looks like.

 

A shift to Zone 2 is not completely without benefit as it would extend routine cover to the UK (which I now visit annually) and some other countries  and tgat  might come in handy. 

 

 

 

[SooKee]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:09 PM, Sheryl said:

The information comes from broker (second hand, per other board member. I have not yet contacted broker mysekf).  Supposedly effective 1 April. Since your premium notice has already been issued possibly you escaped it this year for that reason...unless its application is limited to new policies. 

 

My premium notice is not yet issued as comes due in  August.

 

Difficulty in changing insurers  relates to pre-existing conditions more than age.

 

For myself I think a change is not feasible as I now have hypertension (well-controlled, but requiring medication) and degenerative spinal changes which led to 3 insurance claims in recent years. So I think I will have to stay with April.   I may do some research on that  but can't imagine any insurer woukd not at least exclude all spinal problems. 

 

I might increase my deductible depending on what premium looks like.

 

A shift to Zone 2 is not completely without benefit as it would extend routine cover to the UK (which I now visit annually) and some other countries  and tgat  might come in handy. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, AOC told me about the change too, as you say, 1 April.  My renewal is due 1 April so I suspect (hope) that my notice is based on the new region 2 and that it's just an admin error that it's been left as region 3 at the foot of the document.  If that's not the case it may not bode well as that would mean there would need to be another reason for the 30% / $800 price rise in premium plus of course the double-whammy to come for the region change.  My guess though is that my renewal, falling as it does on 1 April, has been switched to the new region 2 price structure. 

I have never claimed and have no existing conditions so a change of insurer may not be too problematic and, in light of what AOC have told me, may actually be a good idea.  He made the following points to me about April (France):

 

"Note that April's Basic plan is limited compared to plans in the same category.  Few examples:

• Annual limit $500,000
• Semi-private room only and no private room (Important point in Thailand)
• Rehabilitation up to 20 days compare to the market 30 days per medical conditions"

Changing while I still can may seem prudent!  Of course, I have yet to establish what's available from other providers and what the premiums will be but April is looking less attractive at the moment.

Edited March 17 by SooKee

[SooKee]

Just by way of an update for those with April France, or thinking of going with them, having asked AA World directly, they tell me that Thailand moving to region 2 from region 3 is only for new business, not renewals.  If that's the case, a 30% / $800 premium hike is alarming to say the least!  Or maybe April have, on paper, left Thailand in region 3 for renewals but have just hiked the price of the premium anyway.  Given that premium increases over the previous 3 years have been 8%, 6% and 10%, the 30% being asked for now will need some explaining.

 

I'll update again if any more meaningful information comes to light about the increase or about alternative providers that I'm looking at.  It will be interesting to see if others with policies from April France get such a large premium increase if renewing this year, assuming of course they are members here and post about it.

Edited March 19 by SooKee

[Sheryl]

11 hours ago, SooKee said:

Just by way of an update for those with April France, or thinking of going with them, having asked AA World directly, they tell me that Thailand moving to region 2 from region 3 is only for new business, not renewals.  If that's the case, a 30% / $800 premium hike is alarming to say the least!  Or maybe April have, on paper, left Thailand in region 3 for renewals but have just hiked the price of the premium anyway.  Given that premium increases over the previous 3 years have been 8%, 6% and 10%, the 30% being asked for now will need some explaining.

 

Great news re Zone (if correct) and would explain the reports from others renewing now.

 

Re your 30% increase are you sure you did not move  into a new age bracket? As barring any structural change the elements driving increases are (1) inflation (specific to health care costs) and (2) age  bracket. 

[SooKee]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Great news re Zone (if correct) and would explain the reports from others renewing now.

 

Re your 30% increase are you sure you did not move  into a new age bracket? As barring any structural change the elements driving increases are (1) inflation (specific to health care costs) and (2) age  bracket. 

 

 

This is the odd thing, in two ways.  Firstly I've not moved to the next age bracket which I always though was 66, my renewal date is 1st April and I do not reach the next age bracket until after that.  AA World Insure though (I'm still in contact with them and will be until I change) have said that April do not use age bands?  It's all very strange and there definitely seems to be a 'smoke and mirrors' thing going on!  

 

AA World have gone quiet since I contacted them asking whether the reason for the increase was the change of region, to which they replied as I said above, apparently not.  Given that's not the reason, I asked them to ascertain precisely what the reason is, beyond the normal inflation line that they trot out.  Of course I accept inflation will play a part, but 30%?  Heard nothing since.  Still waiting to hear from AOC.  

 

I've mailed April a couple of times to ask too but, of course, I've had no reply from them either.  That I don't find at all surprising given I think their communication is garbage, always has been for me.

Edited March 20 by SooKee

[david_je]

On 3/15/2024 at 2:25 PM, SooKee said:

As an example, in April 2022, the forecast for my premiums were:

Age Bands

61-65: $2,380 (only a couple of hundred out when the premium became due in 2023)

 

66-70: $2,790

71-75: $3,196

76-80: $3,611
 

Was this forecast from April France or from the old AA broker? And it is for Basic Plan? Thanks.

[Sheryl]

19 hours ago, SooKee said:

 

 

This is the odd thing, in two ways.  Firstly I've not moved to the next age bracket which I always though was 66, my renewal date is 1st April and I do not reach the next age bracket until after that.  AA World Insure though (I'm still in contact with them and will be until I change) have said that April do not use age bands?  It's all very strange and there definitely seems to be a 'smoke and mirrors' thing going on!  

 

AA World have gone quiet since I contacted them asking whether the reason for the increase was the change of region, to which they replied as I said above, apparently not.  Given that's not the reason, I asked them to ascertain precisely what the reason is, beyond the normal inflation line that they trot out.  Of course I accept inflation will play a part, but 30%?  Heard nothing since.  Still waiting to hear from AOC.  

 

I've mailed April a couple of times to ask too but, of course, I've had no reply from them either.  That I don't find at all surprising given I think their communication is garbage, always has been for me.

age bracket usually starts at 65 not 66 e.g. 

60-64

65-69

70-74

etc

 

So if yiu just turneed 65 you would have fallen into a new age bracket.

[SooKee]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

age bracket usually starts at 65 not 66 e.g. 

60-64

65-69

70-74

etc

 

So if yiu just turneed 65 you would have fallen into a new age bracket.

 

 

That's just an assumption.  It depends on where the age brackets come from.   Sorry, and I don't wish to sound blunt, but there's no 'usually' about it, what one may have encountered with other providers / brokers historically doesn't equate to 'usually', despite the fact that it may be the case in some instances.  As an example, see the below, provided by a well known and previously highly regarded broker in 2022.  61-65, 66-70 etc etc.  

 

AOC also provided the following information regarding another provider:

 

+ The insurance premium is calculated in 5-year age brackets - age 66/70 and then age 71 to 75

+ There is a wide choice of annual deductibles, including $1 000, $2 500, $5,000, $10,000 and even $15,000.

+ The insurer increases these premiums by 5 to 7% a year for our client in South-East Asia
+ Private room are full refund
+ Rehabilitation is up to 30 days per medical conditions

 

These premium forecasts though have proved to be not only inaccurate but wildly inaccurate, so much so that they are not worth the virtual paper they are written on IMO. YMMV.

 

It also depends on who exactly is providing the bracket related information, a broker (grouping them approximately for the purposes of providing overview charts) or an insurer that may operate their bracket ranges differently to what we may think or have encountered before.  There is also the issue as to whether the provider works on the basis of brackets at all.  Twice now I have been told by two different brokers that April does not and that they operate on a year by year basis.  Nobody but the insurer can say why my premiums have risen by 30% and to date they haven't replied and neither have the brokers.  Very transparent (not!).

 

Edited March 21 by SooKee

[SooKee]

On 3/20/2024 at 11:05 AM, david_je said:

Was this forecast from April France or from the old AA broker? And it is for Basic Plan? Thanks.

 

 

This was from the broker and for the basic $500 plan as they call it.  I have only ever got forecasts from brokers, with the insurance companies I have experience of, they have never provided such estimates.

The broker that I am thinking of switching to provided me with a lot of very worrying information about April which I intend to study in depth over the weekend. Also, apparently they no longer accept new business for applicants over 60 and, over the years, they have moved Thailand from Zone 4, to 3 to 2 with all the costs that go with it.  The broker is of the view that April premiums could well increase by 37-40% over the next two years plus medical inflation.  It's got to the point with April that for me, I think it's time to cut and run to another provider.  Things change over time of course but I'm now being advised to move my business to the next 'all music, singing and dancing' company, of course April was supposedly that company 4 years ago!

 

Circumstances will be different for everyone though and folks should definitely make their own decisions after availing themselves of all the relevant information from a respected broker.  Personally, I'm not that sold on the idea that brokers are solely concerned with looking after my interests, never have been really, they make commission from sales, I just think that some are perhaps more strictly regulated than others.  

[SooKee]

I was out of time to edit the above post but, FWIW, what I am intent on doing is establishing the EXACT reason for the significant jump of 30% / $800 in premium costs this year from April, not broker based guesses and assumptions (probably this, could be that too, maybe this blah blah blah).  It is proving to be way harder than it should be to get a proper and precise answer from either April or the broker about this.  At the very least I will definitely change broker this year and I have asked the (most likely) new one to try and get an explanation from April.  Getting an answer to anything from April I find is extremely difficult, their communication is crap!

[SooKee]

So, to add to the confusion, AOC Brokers have said that the change of Thailand to region 2 will affect all policies, not just renewals, and that, along with inflation, is the reason for my increase, increases that they say will gradually level out to 40% across the board over the next 2 years as other policies are renewed / issued.  If that is the case I suggested that they contact April so that they can issue me with a new premium notice (and subsequent policy documentation) that is 100% accurate BEFORE I renew!  I stressed that I certainly do not intend to pay for region 2 pricing, while my documentation from April (the first place they will look in the event of a claim) reflects region 3, just because some admin muppet forgot to update the documents, or because they are just plain incompetent.  There is no way I would want to be arguing following a claim say, while in the UK, that it's region 2 and should be covered while April tell me the only documents I have from them still say my coverage is for region 3!

Having asked AA World if they have any update they have indicated they are still waiting for a response from April.  It'll be interesting to see what transpires there.  What a complete and utter shambles.  April don't seem to have enough skills to run an ice cream cart at the moment let alone a multi-national health insurance company.

Edited March 22 by SooKee

[david_je]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:47 PM, SooKee said:

 

 AOC also provided the following information regarding another provider:

 

+ The insurance premium is calculated in 5-year age brackets - age 66/70 and then age 71 to 75

+ There is a wide choice of annual deductibles, including $1 000, $2 500, $5,000, $10,000 and even $15,000.

+ The insurer increases these premiums by 5 to 7% a year for our client in South-East Asia
+ Private room are full refund
+ Rehabilitation is up to 30 days per medical conditions

 

 

This other provider is the insurer that AOC says you should switch to? Are you able to say who that is? It is possible AOC has financial incentive to urge a switch.

Have you already switched from old AA to AOC as your broker, and AOC is listed on your renewal policy from April as the intermediary?

I am in similar vexing situation as you with April renewal coming up.

Thanks. 

[david_je]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:09 PM, Sheryl said:

My premium notice is not yet issued as comes due in  August.

 

Difficulty in changing insurers  relates to pre-existing conditions more than age.

 

For myself I think a change is not feasible as I now have hypertension (well-controlled, but requiring medication) and degenerative spinal changes which led to 3 insurance claims in recent years. So I think I will have to stay with April.   I may do some research on that  but can't imagine any insurer woukd not at least exclude all spinal problems. 

 

Thank you for sharing that. I had no pre-existing conditions excluded on my April policy. This past year I was treated for atrial fibrillation and had an ablation done that so far has restored sinus rhythm. (I did not make a claim with April for the ablation since I chose to do it outside zone of coverage of my policy.) Do you think that could lead to cardiovascular exclusion or some such if I switch to new insurer?

[SooKee]

39 minutes ago, david_je said:

This other provider is the insurer that AOC says you should switch to? Are you able to say who that is? It is possible AOC has financial incentive to urge a switch.

Have you already switched from old AA to AOC as your broker, and AOC is listed on your renewal policy from April as the intermediary?

I am in similar vexing situation as you with April renewal coming up.

Thanks. 

 

 

1) Other provider: New Health International

2) A possibility for sure.  I don't particularly trust brokers if I'm honest.  The company they suggest switching too is actually MORE expensive than April but, they feel, will be more stable and less costly in the years to come.  Funny, contact them to query switching brokers and beyond industry norm price rises and bingo.  Here's an even more expensive policy that we think will be better for you.  They did ask me what my current renewal premium was.  I always get suspicious when that happens, fishing for what level they can pitch alternatives at, just give me some quotes, why do you need to know what I'm paying now?

3) I have not switched yet. I will decide once I can fathom which one is able to provide me with the more accurate information.  So far, they are both telling me exact opposite stories.  If your renewal is due imminently, has your premium increased significantly or is it still within the 6-10% band?

Edited March 22 by SooKee