jerrymahoney Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: .... It is the 'deliberate ignorance' that highlights a degree of bigotry, people are perceptive and can pick up on this, it doesn't endear those who refuse to Wai... it ostracises them into a place of disregard BS. A nod from a farang is quite sufficient in returning a wai. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaGlobulin Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 18 hours ago, Chalong circle said: Nothing more strange that to see customers first wai bar girl or the cashier at Makro Agree. Ignorant fools, basically... Save your wai for the cops, if you must wai someone lower in social status than you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinok Farang Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Wai not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinok Farang Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 One of the most embarrassing sights in Thailand is the newcomer wai-ing everybody and his dog. If unsure a shy smile and a gentle nod of the head should suffice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisKC Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 What is all the fuss about a "wai"? (there are actually nine variations of it that takes account of so many cultural situations in public life. Giving a wai is simply a greeting or a goodbye, or a thank you. No need for special reasons as in superior or older people, or a "need" to show respect. I do it naturally and have done for most of my life in Thailand, thinking nothing of it, as others do with me, both Thai and other foreigners. I am not bowing or kowtowing to Thai culture any more than compromising my own western culture. I have never observed reactions either positive or negative about my behaviour protocols - I am readily accepted by all that I meet without recourse to "wais" or wherefores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 17 hours ago, jerrymahoney said: 23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: .... It is the 'deliberate ignorance' that highlights a degree of bigotry, people are perceptive and can pick up on this, it doesn't endear those who refuse to Wai... it ostracises them into a place of disregard BS. A nod from a farang is quite sufficient in returning a wai. Thank you for validating my point... 'degree of bigotry well highlighted'... You believe you are above all Thai's and do not wish to meet them at a level setting... A nod will suffice as in far is its better than completely ignoring someone who has wai'ed you (depending on their age / status etc)... but there are plenty of settings where your 'nod' in response to a Wai will be considered rude and that will be 'mentally noted' by those Thai's around you who witness such.... Some people such as yourself seem to consider a 'Wai' a measure of social deference and this is why you object to such a simple gesture... But its not a measure of deference, its just a measure of being respectful. When first met my Wife's parents I was very careful to ensure I gave them a Wai.... the Wai was returned even though future FiL was not best pleased at this Foreigner her daughter was introducing them to (as a 'friend' !!).... But, the Wai was always there. These days year, the inlaws are visiting weekly, we have dinner together... and the first greeting of the day there is a Wai, I don't know who wai's first now.... it just happens at the same time, followed by a handshake and a huh with FiL and a peck on the cheek for MiL... Had I started off with the ignorance of 'refusing to Wai and showing a level of ignorance or lack of politeness.. I suspect life for my wife (then GF) back then (who was still living with her parents) would have been made far more difficult perhaps to the degree that parental pressure may have caused greater issues. ... Its sometimes the small things such as a gesture that make life easier - I don't know why some people insist on fighting this. Imagine meeting your daughters boyfriend for the first time and you put your hand out to shake his hand, but he just ignores you and just gives you a nod.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 10 hours ago, Kinok Farang said: One of the most embarrassing sights in Thailand is the newcomer wai-ing everybody and his dog. If unsure a shy smile and a gentle nod of the head should suffice. I think its harder for a complete newbie... ... but its easy enough to figure out with a little basic knowledge... I too find it amusing the guy walking around wai'ing all and sundry, its a little over the top. But, when exercised with intelligent balance, returning a wai is the better option, than not when in uncertain situations, I find. Edited February 25 by richard_smith237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinRacing Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Wai is a Thai thing. You’re not Thai. Most likely they’ll laugh behind your back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 51 minutes ago, AustinRacing said: Wai is a Thai thing. You’re not Thai. Most likely they’ll laugh behind your back. Politeness is an international thing..... If you can't attempt to be polite, people wont laugh behind your back, they'll judge you for it. There's no harm in making attempt to be polite. Do you laugh at someone of a foreign culture when they shake your hand ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKresonant Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 2/24/2024 at 3:09 PM, richard_smith237 said: Then your teacher was a bit of a pillock.... I know Thai's in very high positions who return the Wai of waiting staff when walking into a nice restaurant etc.... because its the polite thing to do... I watch my Father in Law behave the same way. But they would not initiate the Wai to the staff, or someone obviously junior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger buttmore Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I never wai anyone. A smile and perhaps a gentle nod of the head is sufficient in my mind for me as I am not Thai. Been coming for 25 years and lived here for 12, but I am still not Thai and never will be. The only time I can picture myself performing a wai is if I have an encounter with immigration officials or police where a positive outcome is dependant upon them, but that hasn't happened yet. I cringe when I see farang at a bar, restaurant, or reception waiing the staff - eek! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 2/24/2024 at 8:39 PM, richard_smith237 said: A little bow and a smile.... are you getting tour nations mixed up ? do you give them a Wai in Japan ? I think the key point in all of this is the importance of showing efforts to be polite... So if its a nod and a smile, a hand-shake, even a bow (as above) or a imperfect wai.... there is no mistake to be made as the only mistake is to make no effort to be polite at all. So... as you mention Felton, a Wai is not expected of a 'Farang'... but that does not mean it isn't welcomed. I'm a living example that a wai is not expected of a farang, as they know we don't know how to do them correctly. I cringed when I saw western tourists waiing people they shouldn't, and always getting it wrong. As for your first sentence, rubbish. I always did exactly that, and it was always accepted in the spirit it was given. The point isn't whether we wai or bow, but that we are acknowledging the existence of other people. Seems a lot of posters get too caught up in the to wai or not debate. My Thai sister in law always wai'd me and then stole everything of mine she could get her hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: Some people such as yourself seem to consider a 'Wai' a measure of social deference and this is why you object to such a simple gesture... But its not a measure of deference, its just a measure of being respectful. When first met my Wife's parents I was very careful to ensure I gave them a Wai.... People such as yourself? My first extended times in Thailand were at an NGO under patronage of HM the (then) King and I don't remember EVER giving a wai even to high ranking officials who routinely came by. As for first meeting my wife's parents around New Year's day after being married in another province, I gave them money for the big tambon and party which I think they appreciated more than a wai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I'm a living example that a wai is not expected of a farang, as they know we don't know how to do them correctly. I cringed when I saw western tourists waiing people they shouldn't, and always getting it wrong. I think Thais will react to an 'improper' wai the same way a Westerner would react to watching someone picking their nose in public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaGlobulin Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: My Thai sister in law always wai'd me and then stole everything of mine she could get her hands on. Did she steal from you as pay-back for not returning her wais, consistently and repeatedly? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinRacing Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: Politeness is an international thing..... If you can't attempt to be polite, people wont laugh behind your back, they'll judge you for it. There's no harm in making attempt to be polite. Do you laugh at someone of a foreign culture when they shake your hand ???? You missed the point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Bill Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 5:56 AM, GammaGlobulin said: Do you enjoy the return of the wai when someone offers this gesture to you? Why? Yes very much so! It is a matter of respect, as taught to me as a child by my parents. Here in Cambodia where I now live, I always "wai" to people. Interstingly, yesterday (Sunday 25th February 2024), I returned to Siem Reap from a consultation with a Thai specialist across the border at Ubon Ratchathani Government Hospital. When all was complete, the lady doctor offered her hand for me to SHAKE on leaving her clinic, wishing me good luck for the future. Amazing, and the first time in 24 years a Thai doctor has shaken my hand! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaGlobulin Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, Burma Bill said: Yes very much so! It is a matter of respect, as taught to me as a child by my parents. Here in Cambodia where I now live, I always "wai" to people. Interstingly, yesterday (Sunday 25th February 2024), I returned to Siem Reap from a consultation with a Thai specialist across the border at Ubon Ratchathani Government Hospital. When all was complete, the lady doctor offered her hand for me to SHAKE on leaving her clinic, wishing me good luck for the future. Amazing, and the first time in 24 years a Thai doctor has shaken my hand! As I mentioned, I far prefer the wai to a handshake, for many reasons. Chinese in China do not do the handshake, or rarely. We bow, mostly from the neck. The Japanese also do not shake hands, although bowing Japanese style is a fine art. Thai people here do not offer to shake hands with me, almost invariably. And we either bow or wai. This might be just one more reason why I will never return to America. I just could not adapt to all the handshaking and hugging going on there. Just not hygienic enough for me. Also, the American style is just too invasive of my personal space, for sure. So. Asia is the only place for me to live now, maybe... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 10 hours ago, jerrymahoney said: People such as yourself? My first extended times in Thailand were at an NGO under patronage of HM the (then) King and I don't remember EVER giving a wai even to high ranking officials who routinely came by. Under the Patronage of HM the King - over egging your importance somewhat, eh ???.... You don't remember ever giving a wai... fair enough... I wonder if they remember the ignorant farang !... 10 hours ago, jerrymahoney said: As for first meeting my wife's parents around New Year's day after being married in another province, I gave them money for the big tambon and party which I think they appreciated more than a wai. Of course, if you are marrying into a family who value your money more than your respect. I don't have to buy my inLaws respect by giving them money, but have earned by being respectful of them and their culture as they mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: I'm a living example that a wai is not expected of a farang, as they know we don't know how to do them correctly. Thats just a living example of ignorance and how the politeness of Thai's readily forgives such. 11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: I cringed when I saw western tourists waiing people they shouldn't, and always getting it wrong. I too cringe, but for anyone who's been here any length of time, its easy to get right... or rather, its easy not to make a pillok of yourself by wai'ing all and sundry. 11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: As for your first sentence, rubbish. I always did exactly that, and it was always accepted in the spirit it was given. The point isn't whether we wai or bow, but that we are acknowledging the existence of other people. Seems a lot of posters get too caught up in the to wai or not debate. I agree with this.... making the effort to show politeness is more important than the 'accuracy' or method through which we show politeness and respect. But, after being here for a long time, people I know know I've been here a long time, so refusing to return a Wai would be ignorant of me. 11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: My Thai sister in law always wai'd me and then stole everything of mine she could get her hands on. And perhaps Harold Shipman said please and thank-you to his patients.... bad apples is not really relevant to 'wai'ing'.... But if your point is that a Wai is just a surface gesture and may not always be genuine, then I am also inclined to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 32 minutes ago, AustinRacing said: You missed the point. No... I'm just judging you on this forum as I imagine others may do so behind your back if you are as ignorant to think Thai's laugh behind the backs of Westerners who return a Wai... or offer a Wai to a more senior figure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 30 minutes ago, Burma Bill said: When all was complete, the lady doctor offered her hand for me to SHAKE on leaving her clinic, wishing me good luck for the future. Amazing, and the first time in 24 years a Thai doctor has shaken my hand! This has happened to me today.... After thanking the Surgeon for his efforts, I Wai'ied, he returned the Wai, then offered his hand-out and we shook hands.... I thought it a good show of mutual respect. It seems some on this forum think he'll now go away and snigger behind my back (Austin Racing)... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said: Of course, if you are marrying into a family who value your money more than your respect. You really have to bring out that old chestnut? As far as I'm concerned I am getting the better part of the bargain. Thanks for your concern. And the NGO certainly remembers me as I helped some of their top disabled students get graduate scholarships domestic and international. Edited February 26 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 54 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: You really have to bring out that old chestnut? As far as I'm concerned I am getting the better part of the bargain. Thanks for your concern. And the NGO certainly remembers me as I helped some of their top disabled students get graduate scholarships domestic and international. (Yeah, apologies, that was a bit of a cheap shot).... & to be fair, I have to say props to you for the work you have carried out. I'm just left a little surprised that someone so 'giving' refuses to Wai when they have so much experience of the culture and surely knows how to wai without worrying about making a fool of themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaGlobulin Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said: You really have to bring out that old chestnut? As far as I'm concerned I am getting the better part of the bargain. Thanks for your concern. And the NGO certainly remembers me as I helped some of their top disabled students get graduate scholarships domestic and international. Good show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimTripper Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Very rarely, but if I had more genuine Thai friends or family here I probably would. 🙏 My interactions are primarily with service staff or similar where it is not expected to be returned due to the relationship. Edited February 26 by JimTripper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Wai? Why Wai? as Tom Jones said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaGlobulin Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said: Wai? Why Wai? as Tom Jones said. Fielding was a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: (Yeah, apologies, that was a bit of a cheap shot).... & to be fair, I have to say props to you for the work you have carried out. I'm just left a little surprised that someone so 'giving' refuses to Wai when they have so much experience of the culture and surely knows how to wai without worrying about making a fool of themselves... OK. No problem. Just to say that when one marries for the time EVER at age 70, the dynamics can be a bit different than otherwise. There's an old Irving Berlin show-tune (1946) called "Doin' What Comes Naturally". If a wai to me came naturally, I would do it . But it doesn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinRacing Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: No... I'm just judging you on this forum as I imagine others may do so behind your back if you are as ignorant to think Thai's laugh behind the backs of Westerners who return a Wai... or offer a Wai to a more senior figure. Yeah you missed the point. You can be polite in your own way. Wai is something Thais do not foreigners. They don’t expect it of you so don’t bother looking silly just trying to impress them. You won’t!!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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