Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[eisfeld]

8 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Indeed, it was deemed “the deadliest pandemic since the Spanish flu” etc. But the mortality rate was extremely low.

It is one more respiratory ailment and the rest is just political.

Just two weeks to flatten the curve…
Just six weeks to slow the spread…
Just until a vaccine is available…
Just until the elderly and most compromised are vaccinated…
Just until all adults are vaccinated…
Just until 80% of everyone over 12 is vaccinated…
Just until 85% of everyone over 5 is vaccinated…
Just show your vaccine passport…

Gotta laugh about it really.

 

It is the deadliest pandemic since the Spanish Flu. Covid-19 has resulted in 7M deaths according to the World Health Organization [0] and other sources estimate even more. If you know of any more deadly pandemic since the Spanish Flu then please tell us.

 

At this point I start to think of Covid-19 deniers the same a Holocaust deniers. Something terrible happens and people just flat out deny reality. And since they deny reality, no amount of facts and proof can convince them. They are stuck in a twisted narrative. Sad but seems incurable.

 

[0] https://data.who.int/dashboards/covid19/deaths?n=c

[rattlesnake]

On 3/4/2024 at 5:06 AM, eisfeld said:

 

It is the deadliest pandemic since the Spanish Flu. Covid-19 has resulted in 7M deaths according to the World Health Organization [0] and other sources estimate even more. If you know of any more deadly pandemic since the Spanish Flu then please tell us.

 

At this point I start to think of Covid-19 deniers the same a Holocaust deniers. Something terrible happens and people just flat out deny reality. And since they deny reality, no amount of facts and proof can convince them. They are stuck in a twisted narrative. Sad but seems incurable.

 

[0] https://data.who.int/dashboards/covid19/deaths?n=c

 

This notion of what constitutes "reality" is what separates people like myself from people like yourself. You believe that supranational instances and other official "health" bodies such as the WHO or the CDC state the incontrovertible truth, whereas I believe they are lying. That's all. So regardless of what you think of it, it isn't denial of reality, it is denial of official statements.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nah, it's just plain denial... COVID denial.... denial of reality. And no credible sources or data to support their "alternate" reality. Just the embracing of conspiracy theories and nonsense, such as below:

 

 

Where did the microchip vaccine conspiracy theory come from anyway?

 

"In the U.S., polling from March found that 42% of respondents believed at least one COVID-19 conspiracy theory. That survey, commissioned by the nonprofit Surgo Ventures, found that 16% of eligible Americans are a hardened group of COVID-19 skeptics steeped in conspiracy theories, while another 7% are system distrusters."

 

And:

 

"The Surgo survey found that 1 in 14 people believe a tracking chip might be planted with the vaccine. A poll from Axios/Ipsos, also from March, asked 1,000 American adults if the COVID-19 vaccines contained a tracking microchip. More than 1 in 4 said they didn’t know. That’s the equivalent of nearly 69 million people.

 

https://revealnews.org/article/where-did-the-microchip-vaccine-conspiracy-theory-come-from-anyway/

 

[eisfeld]

50 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

This notion of what constitutes "reality" is what separates people like myself from people like yourself. You believe that supranational instances and other official "health" bodies such as the WHO or the CDC state the incontrovertible truth, whereas I believe they are lying. That's all. So regardless of what you think of it, it isn't denial of reality, it is denial of official statements.

 

I don't need WHO, CDC nor any other institution to see reality. Whitnessed enough when the pandemic was in full swing. Family lost enough friends who passed away. So yes, it is obvious and indisputable denial of reality what you are doing.

[Amethyst]

A post with an unsourced claim and an ensuing reply have been removed.

 

Per the forum's rules:

 

"In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."

 

 

[rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Nah, it's just plain denial... COVID denial.... denial of reality. And no credible sources or data to support their "alternate" reality. Just the embracing of conspiracy theories and nonsense, such as below:

 

 

Where did the microchip vaccine conspiracy theory come from anyway?

 

"In the U.S., polling from March found that 42% of respondents believed at least one COVID-19 conspiracy theory. That survey, commissioned by the nonprofit Surgo Ventures, found that 16% of eligible Americans are a hardened group of COVID-19 skeptics steeped in conspiracy theories, while another 7% are system distrusters."

 

And:

 

"The Surgo survey found that 1 in 14 people believe a tracking chip might be planted with the vaccine. A poll from Axios/Ipsos, also from March, asked 1,000 American adults if the COVID-19 vaccines contained a tracking microchip. More than 1 in 4 said they didn’t know. That’s the equivalent of nearly 69 million people.

 

https://revealnews.org/article/where-did-the-microchip-vaccine-conspiracy-theory-come-from-anyway/

 

 

Using a blatantly ridiculous claim to then entirely dismiss any refutation of the doxa is a well-established (and, unfortunately, effective) technique.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Ohh... but it's not just one absurd example. It's hundreds, probably thousands of false, debunked claims that folks in the COVID deniers / anti-vax / vaccine skeptic camp continue to espouse.

 

02/07/2024

NewsGuard Reports More Than 300 Vaccine-Related False Narratives Now Spreading Online

Nearly four years since the outbreak of COVID-19—and amidst a constant stream of false claims about vaccine efficacy—NewsGuard reports that there are now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives infecting social media and online search results

 

"These are among the now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives that NewsGuard’s healthcare information team has identified circulating on the internet, shared by 4,387 websites and other news sources and social media accounts—and counting. Two thirds of all the news and information websites that NewsGuard has rated as untrustworthy since 2018 publish healthcare misinformation."

...

“Research continues to show that vaccine disinformation and misinformation have a significant death toll,” said Steven Brill, co-CEO of NewsGuard. “For example, a May 2022 analysis by researchers at Brown, Harvard, Microsoft, and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, reported that if the COVID vaccine take-up rate in the United States had been 90 percent of eligible adults after the vaccines became available instead of the actual rate of 70 percent of adults being fully vaccinated, 225,427 fewer people would have died between January 2021 and April 2022.”

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[rattlesnake]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ohh... but it's not just one absurd example. It's hundreds, probably thousands of false, debunked claims that folks in the COVID deniers / anti-vax / vaccine skeptic camp continue to espouse.

 

02/07/2024

NewsGuard Reports More Than 300 Vaccine-Related False Narratives Now Spreading Online

Nearly four years since the outbreak of COVID-19—and amidst a constant stream of false claims about vaccine efficacy—NewsGuard reports that there are now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives infecting social media and online search results

 

"These are among the now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives that NewsGuard’s healthcare information team has identified circulating on the internet, shared by 4,387 websites and other news sources and social media accounts—and counting. Two thirds of all the news and information websites that NewsGuard has rated as untrustworthy since 2018 publish healthcare misinformation."

...

“Research continues to show that vaccine disinformation and misinformation have a significant death toll,” said Steven Brill, co-CEO of NewsGuard. “For example, a May 2022 analysis by researchers at Brown, Harvard, Microsoft, and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, reported that if the COVID vaccine take-up rate in the United States had been 90 percent of eligible adults after the vaccines became available instead of the actual rate of 70 percent of adults being fully vaccinated, 225,427 fewer people would have died between January 2021 and April 2022.”

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

 

 

 

Currently, in Covid-related threads, critical posts mostly receive positive emojis whereas the minority, such as yourself, who still defend the official narrative mostly receive laughs.

 

This is a 180° trend inversion compared to two years ago when most forum users were pro-science, pro-jab, reasonable citizens and people such as myself who were critical would get mobbed, in the few cases where our posts were not deleted. So what has happened? Have the users of this forum all turned into conspiracy theorists? Or maybe there was valid ground to the criticism and people realise it now?

[ricklev]

Everybody involved was struggling with how to confront an evolving public health emergency, so yes, there was confusion and lies and people looking to profit and conspiracy theorists etc. etc. etc.

 

You want the truth, you can't handle the truth and the truth is that lots of decent people were doing there best and there was no massive conspiracy.  

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ohh... but it's not just one absurd example. It's hundreds, probably thousands of false, debunked claims that folks in the COVID deniers / anti-vax / vaccine skeptic camp continue to espouse.

 

02/07/2024

NewsGuard Reports More Than 300 Vaccine-Related False Narratives Now Spreading Online

Nearly four years since the outbreak of COVID-19—and amidst a constant stream of false claims about vaccine efficacy—NewsGuard reports that there are now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives infecting social media and online search results

 

"These are among the now more than 300 vaccine-related false narratives that NewsGuard’s healthcare information team has identified circulating on the internet, shared by 4,387 websites and other news sources and social media accounts—and counting. Two thirds of all the news and information websites that NewsGuard has rated as untrustworthy since 2018 publish healthcare misinformation."

...

“Research continues to show that vaccine disinformation and misinformation have a significant death toll,” said Steven Brill, co-CEO of NewsGuard. “For example, a May 2022 analysis by researchers at Brown, Harvard, Microsoft, and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, reported that if the COVID vaccine take-up rate in the United States had been 90 percent of eligible adults after the vaccines became available instead of the actual rate of 70 percent of adults being fully vaccinated, 225,427 fewer people would have died between January 2021 and April 2022.”

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/newsguard-reports-more-than-300-vaccine-related-false-narratives-now-spreading-online/

 

 

 

 

Look at this post and the 18 positive emojis it received. This is not a one-off and is recurring. I am hearing more and more people being critical towards the whole Covid episode and everything it entails, people who previously went along with it. Now I perfectly understand that you don't want to hear it, but surely there must come a point where you take a step back and accept the possibility that there is a flaw in your beliefs?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What I take of it is, that there's a very loud and persistent anti-vaxer community that has grown somewhat during the pandemic... And that the majority of sensible people long ago got sick and tired of listening to and responding to their nonsense.

 

And, that how many smiley icons posts on AseanNow do or don't receive has nothing to do with the veracity of the information being presented.

 

 

[rattlesnake]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What I take of it is, that there's a very loud and persistent anti-vaxer community that has grown somewhat during the pandemic... And that the majority of sensible people long ago got sick and tired of listening to and responding to their nonsense.

 

And, that how many smiley icons posts on AseanNow do or don't receive has nothing to do with the veracity of the information being presented.

 

 

 

It's a sample of a general sentiment which can be verified everywhere. You are part of an ever-shrinking minority (thankfully).

[Robert Paulson]

There aren’t many “anti vaxxers” as far as I’m concerned, just more hysterical rhetoric. There are adults who proclaim to the world “I am a big boy, and I don’t need some other person (who I presume to be a complete idiot mind you) decide for me what I should read or what I should inject into my body. 
 

They can’t even get the very first step of their argument right.

[rabas]

14 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

It's a sample of a general sentiment which can be verified everywhere. You are part of an ever-shrinking minority (thankfully).

 

"It's everywhere, I saw it on the internet", he said.

 

You so far have proven nothing. Maybe a good time to remember the wise words of Richard Feynman: 

 

“It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period.”

 

There is no quantitative proof, even reliable data, to suggest the vaccines benefits did not far out weigh low levels of side effects, many of which are due to the virus SARS-2 not mRNA technology. [ref1,ref2,ref3]  Ref3: "heart, kidney, liver, brain, and gastrointestinal tract."

 

Richard Feynman was a master contrarian but I admire him because he was laser focused on truth. 

 

[rattlesnake]

4 hours ago, rabas said:

 

"It's everywhere, I saw it on the internet", he said.

 

You so far have proven nothing. Maybe a good time to remember the wise words of Richard Feynman: 

 

“It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period.”

 

There is no quantitative proof, even reliable data, to suggest the vaccines benefits did not far out weigh low levels of side effects, many of which are due to the virus SARS-2 not mRNA technology. [ref1,ref2,ref3]  Ref3: "heart, kidney, liver, brain, and gastrointestinal tract."

 

Richard Feynman was a master contrarian but I admire him because he was laser focused on truth. 

 

 

I know and like that Feynman quote, I have used it myself when discussing other topics.

 

Actually the data is overwhelming, but is deemed not "credible" on this forum, that's all.

 

As I told eisfeld, there is a deep chasm between those who believe the doxa (which at this point I consider to be akin to a Potemkin village) and those who don't, and as I told TallGuyJohnInBkk, my empirical observations (i.e. from the real world and I am not a recluse, over the past three months I have been to the UK and France in addition to Thailand and have observed a growing distrust and bitterness towards the authorities in general, from multiple-jabbed, previously pro-lockdown people who therefore can't be accused of being conspiracy theorists.

 

This is the reality, but there still is a (shrinking) category of people who will accept what the media and official bodies say as incontrovertible truth.

Edited March 6 by rattlesnake