Who's surprised at this? 

Israel’s far-right wants to move Palestinians out of Gaza. Its ideas are gaining attention.
Israel’s far-right wants to move Palestinians out of Gaza. Its ideas are gaining attention | CNN

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of New Zealanders telling Israelis that they shouldn't be taking other peoples land , when Israeli forefathers lived on the land of Israel, but non Maori New Zealanders fore fathers didn't live on the land of New Zealand 

Speaking as someone from the USA, who you have also called a hypocrite, it was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Speaking as someone from the USA, who you have also called a hypocrite, it was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

Nick made a good point, you are accusing others of which you yourself are guilty! 

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Speaking as someone from the USA, who you have also called a hypocrite, it was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

 

   Hypothetically, if an Israeli was telling you to get off American Indian land and go live somewhere else, what would your reply be ?

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Nick made a good point, you are accusing others of which you yourself are guilty! 

Nick and you don't make good points; you just search for excuses for Israel's inexcusable devastation of Gaza. The excuse you are now trying to use to justify this merciless killing is, "Well, your forefathers did it, so we can do it now, too." And what I'm saying is that when my forefathers did something similar, it was wrong, and it's still wrong now. 

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hypothetically, if an Israeli was telling you to get off American Indian land and go live somewhere else, what would your reply be ?

If an Israeli told me to do anything right now, I couldn't post on this forum what my exact reply would be, but the gist of it would be what I've been saying all along. My forefathers committed genocide. It was wrong then, but that was over 500 years ago.  You, (the Israeli), are committing genocide now. It is wrong now. Stop it! 

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Nick and you don't make good points; you just search for excuses for Israel's inexcusable devastation of Gaza. The excuse you are now trying to use to justify this merciless killing is, "Well, your forefathers did it, so we can do it now, too." And what I'm saying is that when my forefathers did something similar, it was wrong, and it's still wrong now. 

Strawman argument!

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Nick and you don't make good points; you just search for excuses for Israel's inexcusable devastation of Gaza. The excuse you are now trying to use to justify this merciless killing is, "Well, your forefathers did it, so we can do it now, too." And what I'm saying is that when my forefathers did something similar, it was wrong, and it's still wrong now. 

Strawman argument!

Why did you classify my argument as "It was wrong then, and still wrong now" as a "strawman argument"?

"A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack."
Strawman Arguments: What They Are and How to Counter Them – Effectiviology

13 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

If an Israeli told me to do anything right now, I couldn't post on this forum what my exact reply would be, but the gist of it would be what I've been saying all along. My forefathers committed genocide. It was wrong then, but that was over 500 years ago.  You, (the Israeli), are committing genocide now. It is wrong now. Stop it! 

 

   The Israeli would ask you when you are giving your stolen  land back, "You first" .

Anyway, best to get back on topic , you can get the last post in if you want though 

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Why did you classify my argument as "It was wrong then, and still wrong now" as a "strawman argument"?

"A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack."
Strawman Arguments: What They Are and How to Counter Them – Effectiviology

You tried baiting us by saying that Nick and myself don't make good points, well it was pointed out to yourself that you are accusing Israel of exactly the same thing of what your ancestors have done, and by definition hypocritical! 

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

You tried baiting us by saying that Nick and myself don't make good points, well it was pointed out to yourself that you are accusing Israel of exactly the same thing of what your ancestors have done, and by definition hypocritical! 

I am not hypocritical. I have said over and over again that what my forefathers did 400+ years ago was genocide and wrong. Now I am telling you that what Israel is doing now is genocide and wrong.

 

What you are doing is like telling someone who admits his father was a thief that it is now okay for you (Israel) to steal. It's just a crazy argument, trying to deflect the charge of genocide from Israel by bringing up the success of past genocides. 

23 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Nick and you don't make good points; you just search for excuses for Israel's inexcusable devastation of Gaza. The excuse you are now trying to use to justify this merciless killing is, "Well, your forefathers did it, so we can do it now, too." And what I'm saying is that when my forefathers did something similar, it was wrong, and it's still wrong now. 

 

   That isn't correct on my part .

I believe that the war in Gaza is justified because of the Oct 7 attack .

You telling Israelis to get off the land of Israel, is a different matter .

The war in Gaza and Israelis living in Israel proper are two different issues 

32 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

If an Israeli told me to do anything right now, I couldn't post on this forum what my exact reply would be, but the gist of it would be what I've been saying all along. My forefathers committed genocide. It was wrong then, but that was over 500 years ago.  You, (the Israeli), are committing genocide now. It is wrong now. Stop it! 

You really hate Israelis, huh?

57 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Who's surprised at this? 

Israel’s far-right wants to move Palestinians out of Gaza. Its ideas are gaining attention.
Israel’s far-right wants to move Palestinians out of Gaza. Its ideas are gaining attention | CNN

Nothing surprising. 

Israeli is a democracy and they will discuss a range of options. 

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of New Zealanders telling Israelis that they shouldn't be taking other peoples land , when Israeli forefathers lived on the land of Israel, but non Maori New Zealanders fore fathers didn't live on the land of New Zealand 

Israel demonizers will never acknowledge that Jews are indigenous to Israel  

For them its always the false narrative of rich "white" Jew oppressors vs  poor dark skinned innocent victims.

 

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I am not hypocritical. I have said over and over again that what my forefathers did 400+ years ago was genocide and wrong. Now I am telling you that what Israel is doing now is genocide and wrong.

 

What you are doing is like telling someone who admits his father was a thief that it is now okay for you (Israel) to steal. It's just a crazy argument, trying to deflect the charge of genocide from Israel by bringing up the success of past genocides. 

Has your 1948 moment gone off the debate mode now, what Israel is doing now is a response to the butchers that invaded Israel on 7/10 and committed the heinous crimes that we are all so familiar now. Most of the Gazans were joyous at hearing the news of the brutally murdered Israelis, and the brutally murdered and disfigured bodies of young Israeli women were paraded for the feral throng to spit on. We are sick of your inflammatory words like "genocide" believe what these vile terrorists tell you by all means, rational thinkers know better. There must never be another 7/10! 

 

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That isn't correct on my part .

I believe that the war in Gaza is justified because of the Oct 7 attack .

You telling Israelis to get off the land of Israel, is a different matter .

The war in Gaza and Israelis living in Israel proper are two different issues 

Ah, we do definitely have different point of view on this:
- I believe that the current military action in Gaza was provoked by the Hamas terrorist attack on Oct 7, but this is just a continuation of a much larger and longer conflict. I also believe the current military actions in Gaza have been much too severe and have gone on much longer than necessary.
- I am not telling Israelis to get off the land of Israel. I'm telling them to get off the land of the Palestinians. The UN clearly defined the division of these two lands in their 1947 map, which keeps getting deleted when I post it here.
- The current military actions in Gaza and the continuing war that is the result of Israelis taking and living on Palestinian land are all the same issue.

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You really hate Israelis, huh?

I don't hate Israelis, but I do hate their right-wing faction (which I am not allowed to name here). But then, I guess, I could say I hate all right-wing factions everywhere. 

10 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I am not hypocritical. I have said over and over again that what my forefathers did 400+ years ago was genocide and wrong. Now I am telling you that what Israel is doing now is genocide and wrong.

 

What you are doing is like telling someone who admits his father was a thief that it is now okay for you (Israel) to steal. It's just a crazy argument, trying to deflect the charge of genocide from Israel by bringing up the success of past genocides. 

 

  I was referring to your stance that Israelis shouldn't  currently  be living on Israel proper.

(Nothing to do with the current Gaza war)

Israel was formed in 1948 , the USA was formed in 1776 .New Zealand was formed 1840 . Australia was formed in 1901

In which year did it stop being OK to go and live on other peoples land ?

(Not that Israelis are living on other peoples land though)

17 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Has your 1948 moment gone off the debate mode now, what Israel is doing now is a response to the butchers that invaded Israel on 7/10 and committed the heinous crimes that we are all so familiar now. Most of the Gazans were joyous at hearing the news of the brutally murdered Israelis, and the brutally murdered and disfigured bodies of young Israeli women were paraded for the feral throng to spit on. We are sick of your inflammatory words like "genocide" believe what these vile terrorists tell you by all means, rational thinkers know better. There must never be another 7/10! 

 

I agree there must never be another Oct 7, but I also believe there should never be a continuing (now almost 6-month-long) devastation of an area using indiscriminate bombing and now invasion causing ten's of thousands of civilian casualties. 

If Israel withdrew tomorrow, all that will be left there is Hamas and other terrorist groups to run the place

as no one wants or can or replace Hamas and this is the problem, as nothing will changed and the whole situation

will be where it was back in 7.10, and until someone or somebody can replace Hamas, things will stay as they are,

death and distraction, famine and misery..

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I was referring to your stance that Israelis shouldn't  currently  be living on Israel proper.

(Nothing to do with the current Gaza war)

Israel was formed in 1948 , the USA was formed in 1776 .New Zealand was formed 1840 . Australia was formed in 1901

In which year did it stop being OK to go and live on other peoples land ?

(Not that Israelis are living on other peoples land though)

It was ALWAYS wrong to forcibly seize and live on other people's land.
Israelis have done that for the past 75 years and NOW continue to do that. 

4 minutes ago, ezzra said:

If Israel withdrew tomorrow, all that will be left there is Hamas and other terrorist groups to run the place

as no one wants or can or replace Hamas and this is the problem, as nothing will changed and the whole situation

will be where it was back in 7.10, and until someone or somebody can replace Hamas, things will stay as they are,

death and distraction, famine and misery..

I agree but I have to add that things will remain the same until someone ALSO removes the right-wing, nationalistic leaders of Isreal (I can't use their names). They have the same motives, goals, and use the same tactics as Hamas. 

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I agree there must never be another Oct 7, but I also believe there should never be a continuing (now almost 6-month-long) devastation of an area using indiscriminate bombing and now invasion causing ten's of thousands of civilian casualties. 

Then why aren't you calling for the Palestian terrorists to surrender and all the hostages released, it is the obvious and only way to end this war!

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Meaningless statement without being more specific.

Share the land means give each one some land and NOT continually steal the other one's!

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Then why aren't you calling for the Palestian terrorists to surrender and all the hostages released, it is the obvious and only way to end this war!

I have REPEATEDLY called for a CEASEFIRE, which would include the release/exchange of hostages/prisoners. I'm sure there would be other conditions, and a "surrender" could mean many things. If "surrender" just means a ceasefire, I think could be worked out. But if "surrender" means all Hamas would be taken into custody by the IDF, that would be more difficult. And, would that only mean the leaders or every fighter? 

Also the war will not end until the two sides (hopefully after getting rid of their current leadership) sit down and work out an agreement as to how this land will be divided up (two-state solution).

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

It was ALWAYS wrong to forcibly seize and live on other people's land.
Israelis have done that for the past 75 years and NOW continue to do that. 

 

  OK, so you support Israelis living on their land which was legally bestowed upon them in 1948 and you oppose the Palestinians trying to forcible seize Israelis land ?

  Hamas attempted to seize Israeli  land (on Oct 7)  adjacent to Gaza and live on that land , and their aims was to seize all Israel's land and claim it as their own .

   Do you support Israel in this situation ?

After all , it is ALWAYS wrong to forcible seize other peoples land to live on 

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have REPEATEDLY called for a CEASEFIRE, which would include the release/exchange of hostages/prisoners. I'm sure there would be other conditions, and a "surrender" could mean many things. If "surrender" just means a ceasefire, I think could be worked out. But if "surrender" means all Hamas would be taken into custody by the IDF, that would be more difficult. And, would that only mean the leaders or every fighter? 

Also the war will not end until the two sides (hopefully after getting rid of their current leadership) sit down and work out an agreement as to how this land will be divided up (two-state solution).

Why do you think they should exchange prisoners for the hostages? All ethical positions are that they should be released immediately with no conditions set don't you agree? Its only Hamas the terrorists who have that stance. The fact that Israel is will to make concessions is irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have REPEATEDLY called for a CEASEFIRE, which would include the release/exchange of hostages/prisoners. I'm sure there would be other conditions, and a "surrender" could mean many things. If "surrender" just means a ceasefire, I think could be worked out. But if "surrender" means all Hamas would be taken into custody by the IDF, that would be more difficult. And, would that only mean the leaders or every fighter? 

Also the war will not end until the two sides (hopefully after getting rid of their current leadership) sit down and work out an agreement as to how this land will be divided up (two-state solution).

They won't take any notice of you........🤭

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  OK, so you support Israelis living on their land which was legally bestowed upon them in 1948 and you oppose the Palestinians trying to forcible seize Israelis land ?

  Hamas attempted to seize Israeli  land (on Oct 7)  adjacent to Gaza and live on that land , and their aims was to seize all Israel's land and claim it as their own .

   Do you support Israel in this situation ?

After all , it is ALWAYS wrong to forcible seize other peoples land to live on 

Yes! (on most of your points above...

- I do support "Israelis living on their land which was legally bestowed upon them in 1948..." and do oppose "...the Palestinians trying to forcible seize Israelis land."

- The land that Hamas invaded on Oct 7 was their land in the 1948 UN map. Israel had "forcible[ly] sized" it since then.
- I support Israel in responding to the Oct 7 slaughter. I do not support Israel having seized and now living on that land.
- Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that "it is ALWAYS wrong to forcible seize other peoples land to live on."