March 21, 20242 yr Anyone managed to obtain a tax certificate from Thai RD that they have been a tax resident in Thailand in a given year? I received dividends on German shares and was charged 25% withholding tax instead of 15% and now need to prove that I was a thai tax resident in 2022. This problem arises in a lot of circumstances where one receives dividends from non Thai shares and is charged a higher withholding tax then is stipulated in the DBA. Usually the DBA rate is 15% and more is withheld at source. IMHO there is a possibilty that this certificate will usually only be issued if you had paid taxes in TH, which I did not. Can someone corroborate? I understand there might be a distinction between certificates one being a tax certificate and the other being a tax resident certificate. To my understanding German IRS should accept both. I can obviously prove that I have been resident in Thailand for more then 180 days with passport stamps. Any recommendation on the use of an agency to obtain said tax certificate without having paid income tax. In the past income tax was only levied on income remitted in the same year, which I did not. I am currently not in Thailand so cannot apply in person. https://www.rd.go.th/english/21974.html https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html Thanks!
March 21, 20242 yr Popular Post A few years ago I received the certificate of tax residency in Thailand every year from the Revenue Department office in Chiang Mai. Like you, I needed the certificate to reclaim tax on dividends in my home country. In Chiang Mai it was an absolute requirement that I had filed a PND90 or PND91 in Thailand for the tax year in question, had I not they would not have issued the certificate. Just having been in Thailand for more than 180 days was not enough.
March 21, 20242 yr Popular Post 4 minutes ago, Sophon said: A few years ago I received the certificate of tax residency in Thailand every year from the Revenue Department office in Chiang Mai. Like you, I needed the certificate to reclaim tax on dividends in my home country. In Chiang Mai it was an absolute requirement that I had filed a PND90 or PND91 in Thailand for the tax year in question, had I not they would not have issued the certificate. Just having been in Thailand for more than 180 days was not enough. Strange behaviour from the TRD, what if the taxpayer has no assessable income that year and is instead living off savings from inside Thailand or exempt income from overseas. A rhetorical question of course.
March 21, 20242 yr Popular Post You need to have a tax number, paid taxes in Thailand and submitted a tax return indicating that taxes were paid. Did you remit those monies to Thailand? Just being tax resident in Thailand is not enough. Tax residence certificates will be issued with the supporting docs on which the taxes were paid in Thailand ie tax number, the pnd90/91 breakdown on the income on which taxes were paid, the dividend statement, its receipt in a bank account in Thailand, the receipt of the tax payment. https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html Tax residence certificates are not issued by all tax offices.
March 22, 20242 yr Popular Post The certificate of fiscal residence is called R.O. 22 and can be asked at a local Revenue Office. In my case (Phuket), they help me to fill up the form, to prepare the attachements (copy of all the passport pages to demonstrate how long I have been in Thailand) and give instruction to send that to Surat Thani office that will issue it and send to my address in a couple of days. I do not think it is necessary to file a tax declaration for getting the R.O. 22, this certification has no correlation with the tax payment, simply states that you have been here for 180 or more and so you are considered a tax resident. The first time that I got it I did not present any PND91, at present I am askingRO-22.pdf it every year but I am paying my taxes. An other interesting document that can be usefull is the R.O. 21, that states your declared income and how much did you pay for tax during the year. Here attached are two samples of RO 22 and RO 21 RO21.pdf
March 22, 20242 yr I recently registered with my local revenue office here in Isaan last week. Provided passport, yellow house book, pink ID card. The paper I received back includes the 10 digit tax number and your yellow book, pink card ID number so the 2 are linked. I've only done it just in case when the final criteria for inclusion in being taxed here is released and my circumstances qualify, I will be ready.
March 22, 20242 yr 16 hours ago, Mike Lister said: Strange behaviour from the TRD, what if the taxpayer has no assessable income that year and is instead living off savings from inside Thailand or exempt income from overseas. A rhetorical question of course. You not need to have income for filling tax-papers.
March 22, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, HampiK said: You not need to have income for filling tax-papers. Indeed that is true, I filed last year and had no tax to pay, which led the young lady to ask why I'd even bothered. A moment later the coin dropped and she said, ah, I understand.
March 22, 20242 yr I pay the usual 30 or so percent withholding tax on the dividends I get from GERMAN shares I hold in a German bank account. I only pay 15% on the dividends from US shares however (because of the tax agreement between Germany and the US, there's a special form to fill in, W-8BEN I think). I didn't know there was any way to pay only 15% on German dividends if the German bank has you down as someone living in Thailand.
March 22, 20242 yr Popular Post 3 hours ago, federicoP said: The certificate of fiscal residence is called R.O. 22 and can be asked at a local Revenue Office. In my case (Phuket), they help me to fill up the form, to prepare the attachements (copy of all the passport pages to demonstrate how long I have been in Thailand) and give instruction to send that to Surat Thani office that will issue it and send to my address in a couple of days. I do not think it is necessary to file a tax declaration for getting the R.O. 22, this certification has no correlation with the tax payment, simply states that you have been here for 180 or more and so you are considered a tax resident. The first time that I got it I did not present any PND91, at present I am askingRO-22.pdf it every year but I am paying my taxes. An other interesting document that can be usefull is the R.O. 21, that states your declared income and how much did you pay for tax during the year. Here attached are two samples of RO 22 and RO 21 RO21.pdf 1.43 MB · 11 downloads With your permission I will lift parts of your post and include them in the Simple Tax Guide, it will be helpful for other to know about this? @UKresonant FYI
March 22, 20242 yr 18 hours ago, Mike Lister said: Strange behaviour from the TRD, what if the taxpayer has no assessable income that year and is instead living off savings from inside Thailand or exempt income from overseas. A rhetorical question of course. Maybe it all comes down to having filed a return. If you don't have to pay anything because your country's tax treaty with Thailand requires Thailand to give a tax credit, e.g. US, then you might not have any tax liability in Thailand, but have to file a return anyway.
March 22, 20242 yr 2 hours ago, Mike Lister said: With your permission I will lift parts of your post and include them in the Simple Tax Guide, it will be helpful for other to know about this? Will be very glad if this info can be helpful for somebody, your Simple Tax Guide is a very commendable work !!! Moreover please note that the following is the form used (at least in Phuket area), to request RO 21 and RO22 : https://www.rd.go.th/region/01/fileadmin/user_upload/pak1doc/roor01-eng-cer/RA01.pdf
March 22, 20242 yr 23 hours ago, stat said: Anyone managed to obtain a tax certificate from Thai RD that they have been a tax resident in Thailand in a given year? I received dividends on German shares and was charged 25% withholding tax instead of 15% and now need to prove that I was a thai tax resident in 2022. This problem arises in a lot of circumstances where one receives dividends from non Thai shares and is charged a higher withholding tax then is stipulated in the DBA. Usually the DBA rate is 15% and more is withheld at source. IMHO there is a possibilty that this certificate will usually only be issued if you had paid taxes in TH, which I did not. Can someone corroborate? I understand there might be a distinction between certificates one being a tax certificate and the other being a tax resident certificate. To my understanding German IRS should accept both. I can obviously prove that I have been resident in Thailand for more then 180 days with passport stamps. Any recommendation on the use of an agency to obtain said tax certificate without having paid income tax. In the past income tax was only levied on income remitted in the same year, which I did not. I am currently not in Thailand so cannot apply in person. https://www.rd.go.th/english/21974.html https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html Thanks! You need the R.O.21 (Income Tax Payment Certificate) and the R.O.22 (Certificate of Residence), both for the said year in question. As the R.O.21 states, you need to be tax resident with a registered TIN (Tax Identification Number) and have been submitting a Tax Return Form, which can be with a 0 baht receipt for tax payment. Without those forms for the given year, you cannot expect to get your withheld dividend tax reduced to 15 percent. Tax Return Form in Thailand needs to be submitted no later than the March 31st the following year.
March 23, 20242 yr Author On 3/22/2024 at 4:15 AM, JackGats said: I pay the usual 30 or so percent withholding tax on the dividends I get from GERMAN shares I hold in a German bank account. I only pay 15% on the dividends from US shares however (because of the tax agreement between Germany and the US, there's a special form to fill in, W-8BEN I think). I didn't know there was any way to pay only 15% on German dividends if the German bank has you down as someone living in Thailand. I am in the process of understanding if it is possible to pay only 15% on the german dividends. The way to go is via this part of German IRS https://www.bzst.de/DE/Home/home_node.html. However I am at the very beginning and currently lacking the paperwork from TH. The good part, the difference can be claimed 4 years retroactively ! For US dividends it works like a charm with the W-8BEN, "just" paying the 15%.
March 23, 20242 yr Author On 3/22/2024 at 1:37 AM, federicoP said: The certificate of fiscal residence is called R.O. 22 and can be asked at a local Revenue Office. In my case (Phuket), they help me to fill up the form, to prepare the attachements (copy of all the passport pages to demonstrate how long I have been in Thailand) and give instruction to send that to Surat Thani office that will issue it and send to my address in a couple of days. I do not think it is necessary to file a tax declaration for getting the R.O. 22, this certification has no correlation with the tax payment, simply states that you have been here for 180 or more and so you are considered a tax resident. The first time that I got it I did not present any PND91, at present I am askingRO-22.pdf it every year but I am paying my taxes. An other interesting document that can be usefull is the R.O. 21, that states your declared income and how much did you pay for tax during the year. Here attached are two samples of RO 22 and RO 21 RO21.pdf 1.43 MB · 18 downloads Any idea if it possible to get this RO paper online? Great post thanks a lot very helpful!
March 23, 20242 yr Author On 3/22/2024 at 3:50 AM, HampiK said: You not need to have income for filling tax-papers. Khop khun krap! I am not sure if I can still file income tax for 2022 in Thailand, as this would be the time when I would need the certificate.
March 24, 20242 yr 6 hours ago, stat said: Any idea if it possible to get this RO paper online? Great post thanks a lot very helpful! I usually send the request of RO papers by regular mail, sending the form and the relevant documents to Surat Thani office that is in charge for Phuket area. The certificates arrive, by mail, to my address after a few days. I doubt they can send by email but you may ask. If not, and if you are not in Thailand you could ask to send them to some friend in Thailand, to be later forwarded by your friend by email.
March 24, 20242 yr On 3/21/2024 at 4:28 PM, stat said: Anyone managed to obtain a tax certificate from Thai RD that they have been a tax resident in Thailand in a given year? I received dividends on German shares and was charged 25% withholding tax instead of 15% and now need to prove that I was a thai tax resident in 2022. This problem arises in a lot of circumstances where one receives dividends from non Thai shares and is charged a higher withholding tax then is stipulated in the DBA. Usually the DBA rate is 15% and more is withheld at source. IMHO there is a possibilty that this certificate will usually only be issued if you had paid taxes in TH, which I did not. Can someone corroborate? I understand there might be a distinction between certificates one being a tax certificate and the other being a tax resident certificate. To my understanding German IRS should accept both. I can obviously prove that I have been resident in Thailand for more then 180 days with passport stamps. Any recommendation on the use of an agency to obtain said tax certificate without having paid income tax. In the past income tax was only levied on income remitted in the same year, which I did not. I am currently not in Thailand so cannot apply in person. https://www.rd.go.th/english/21974.html https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html Thanks! I cannot comment on Thailand. I have applied for Quellensteuer tax refund from Germans with tax cert. from Austria where I lived during lockdowns. Submitted in 2021. Never heard from then. Sent it off registered. They received it. But I have no reference that I could even complain to them. Don't expect any money back from them.
March 25, 20242 yr Author On 3/24/2024 at 2:31 PM, Letseng said: I cannot comment on Thailand. I have applied for Quellensteuer tax refund from Germans with tax cert. from Austria where I lived during lockdowns. Submitted in 2021. Never heard from then. Sent it off registered. They received it. But I have no reference that I could even complain to them. Don't expect any money back from them. Where exactly did you send it? Bundeszentralamt für Steuern in Bonn? Can you confirm that the DBA tax rate is 15% or 20% in your case AT-TH? Thanks!
March 26, 20242 yr 14 hours ago, stat said: Where exactly did you send it? Bundeszentralamt für Steuern in Bonn? Can you confirm that the DBA tax rate is 15% or 20% in your case AT-TH? Thanks! Yes, sent to this address. In my case it was 35% DE/AT. Account was in DE but we were stuck in lockdown in AT and became liable for tax.
March 26, 20242 yr Author 1 hour ago, Letseng said: Yes, sent to this address. In my case it was 35% DE/AT. Account was in DE but we were stuck in lockdown in AT and became liable for tax. How can it be 35%? Is that the combined rate of DE+AT? I am interessed in finding out the DBA rate for German dividends with tax residence in TH. Thanks again!
March 26, 20242 yr All the posters saying you need to file and pay taxes to get RD 21 and 22 are right, federico's guess that you may get it without paying taxes is wrong. But if you have a savings account with a Thai bank you have income in Thailand (the interest) and you are paying tax (withholding tax). It may be only 50 baht a year, no problem, the bank will issue you a form how much tax was withheld, you take this form and go to your local RD, claim your taxes back by filing taxes, get a copy of what you filed, go to the regional RD office and ask for RD 21 and 22 (it will come by mail, about 2 weeks), On 3/24/2024 at 1:03 AM, stat said: Any idea if it possible to get this RO paper online? Impossible On 3/24/2024 at 2:18 AM, stat said: I am not sure if I can still file income tax for 2022 in Thailand Yo can easily get RD 21 and 22 for 2022 You can claim back the withholding tax that was withheld from the interest of your savings account for 3 years (that's routine, 6 years is possible but more complicated). If you go to your bank this year they will issue you the forms listing withheld taxes for 2023, 2022 an 2021. Then proceed as above.
March 27, 20242 yr Author 13 hours ago, Lorry said: All the posters saying you need to file and pay taxes to get RD 21 and 22 are right, federico's guess that you may get it without paying taxes is wrong. But if you have a savings account with a Thai bank you have income in Thailand (the interest) and you are paying tax (withholding tax). It may be only 50 baht a year, no problem, the bank will issue you a form how much tax was withheld, you take this form and go to your local RD, claim your taxes back by filing taxes, get a copy of what you filed, go to the regional RD office and ask for RD 21 and 22 (it will come by mail, about 2 weeks), Impossible Yo can easily get RD 21 and 22 for 2022 You can claim back the withholding tax that was withheld from the interest of your savings account for 3 years (that's routine, 6 years is possible but more complicated). If you go to your bank this year they will issue you the forms listing withheld taxes for 2023, 2022 an 2021. Then proceed as above. I had no bank/savings account in 2022 so on interest to calim back. There should be a way to get this document in theory as it is a simple statement that I am a tax resident i.e. resided 180 day plus maybe with the help of an agency? Can someone recommend an agency? I wrote to one but no answer so far. PS: I know TIT so my westen logic does not apply.
April 2, 20241 yr On 3/27/2024 at 5:41 PM, stat said: my westen logic does not apply. Could have fooled me!
June 28, 20241 yr Author Did anyone actually get their money back from the German Bundeszentralamt für Steuern when handing in a R.O. 22? Did someone manage to get a r.o. 22 without having paid TH income tax? The Bundeszentralamt has their own document they want to have filled in but Thai RD will only fill in their own R.O. 22. I still keep wondering if there really is no agent in the whole of Thailand that has some contacts within TRD so that I get a simple document stamped that I have lived 183 plus days in Thailand. Thanks!
June 28, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, stat said: I still keep wondering if there really is no agent in the whole of Thailand that has some contacts within TRD so that I get a simple document stamped that I have lived 183 plus days in Thailand. It's going to be fun. Strap yourself for the ride. That said, depending on what the Thai authorities do, one should be prepared to at least consider that it may no longer be financially beneficial for them to reside in Thailand past 180 days in a calendar year.
June 28, 20241 yr On 3/21/2024 at 5:45 PM, Mike Lister said: Strange behaviour from the TRD, what if the taxpayer has no assessable income that year and is instead living off savings from inside Thailand or exempt income from overseas. A rhetorical question of course. Living off savings in Thailand assumes savings, meaning some interest earned and taxed. File a tax return for refund of tax paid.
June 28, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, stat said: The Bundeszentralamt has their own document they want to have filled in but Thai RD will only fill in their own R.O. 22. Some Germans with a similar problem (in their case, regarding taxation of pensions) have their embassy write them a letter that the TRD will only issue document XYZ and not the document the German tax office wants. With this embassy letter, the German tax office is satisfied
June 28, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said: Living off savings in Thailand assumes savings, meaning some interest earned and taxed. File a tax return for refund of tax paid. Not a valid assumption, especially given the low rates of interest.
June 29, 20241 yr 10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said: Living off savings in Thailand assumes savings, meaning some interest earned and taxed. File a tax return for refund of tax paid. 5 hours ago, Mike Lister said: Not a valid assumption, especially given the low rates of interest. i agree, probably not many people can live solely off the interest from their savings in thailand. but it is possible. i know someone who does it. with a paid-off house and cars, only two people, no alcohol or smoking, and moderate spending, they live on an average 80k per month ...
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