TorquayFan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 With an election coming shortly, it's MO that neither the incumbent Tories nor the aspiring Labour Party are free to take the right action. The 'triple lock' has served it's purpose - through it's existence TR has done much to improve the lot of UK OAP's, with a 10% increase last year and 8% to come next month. Changing demographics make continuance of TR unwise. The UK needs to look after it's working population FIRST or there'll be nothing more for anyone else. Pensioners should accept the Govt. increasing pensions by RPI movements only, that in itself is a 'gold-plated' position. If average wage increases exceed RPI, Pensioners can be reassured that the increasing tax take would be making their position more secure. Democracy can often be undermined by the need to get votes - we all need to see the wider picture. (BTW the empassioned question of OAP increases to UK Pensioners in Thailand is not relevant here. Thanks) 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rampant Rabbit Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 Why not just execute all pensioners, I mean they only worked 40+ years, these youngsters all want something for nothing, how about they pay more for a pension plan now and stop whining. 2 1 4 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgealbert Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Here is an alternative view, which supports the needs for the triple lock, and some history of why it was brought in. “This briefing sets out the background to State Pension increases and why we need to at least keep the ‘triple lock’ to protect future generations as well as current pensioners.” https://www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2023/12/Briefing-Uprating-of-the-state-pension.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rampant Rabbit Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 Isnt the Uk pension almost the worst in Europe already. The govt should really have invested the pension money , instead its just another pot of money for them to use "now" 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Maybe they should make it means tested. My parents don't need it and i won't either. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post transam Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 5 minutes ago, noobexpat said: Maybe they should make it means tested. My parents don't need it and i won't either. Oh, wow.................................... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post noobexpat Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 38 minutes ago, transam said: Oh, wow.................................... The UK has given me a lot. Happy to give back 😇 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, noobexpat said: The UK has given me a lot. Happy to give back 😇 Oh, wow.............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, transam said: Oh, wow.............. Wow, thanks ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 25 Rampant your first reply is frankly, brainless. BTW I am an OAP myself. Do you realise that your NI contributions paid in over the years have already been spent - did you never benefit from a school, a Hospital or a road etc. ? OA Pensions too are paid each year from the Govt's current tax take and borrowings. Your contributions are not sitting in a Rampant Rabbit bucket - it's not like a Private Pension Scheme where monies are paid into an investment on your behalf. You say, "these youngsters all want something for nothing". So I ask if the Pensioners are right to grumble now, many of them sitting in properties the Youngsters will never be able to aspire to. Re. your 2nd, "The govt should really have invested the pension money, instead its just another pot of money for them to use now". Precisely. You do get it. But if that had NOT been the case, they would have been compelled to INCREASE your other taxes over the years. How can you expect those working now and paying higher than ever taxes, take on a higher burden still, to indulge you now when they will be taking an OAP at a higher age than we (?) did . . . . . 2 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 25 George thanks. An interesting history and one would expect 'UNISON' to follow that line. But this, "we need to at least keep the ‘triple lock’ to protect future generations as well as current pensioners" is a wholly self-serving Unison assumption. Noob - you are spot on. The State OAP should be means tested of course, like many other Benefits . . . . some OAP's have so much wealth and income they just do not need the State Pension. Why tax and disincentivise Yougsters to pay it? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said: Isnt the Uk pension almost the worst in Europe already. The govt should really have invested the pension money , instead its just another pot of money for them to use "now" There is no pot. That's not how it works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 8 minutes ago, TorquayFan said: George thanks. An interesting history and one would expect 'UNISON' to follow that line. But this, "we need to at least keep the ‘triple lock’ to protect future generations as well as current pensioners" is a wholly self-serving Unison assumption. Noob - you are spot on. The State OAP should be means tested of course, like many other Benefits . . . . some OAP's have so much wealth and income they just do not need the State Pension. Why tax and disincentivise Yougsters to pay it? It is means tested. The more years you pay, the more you get. As for tax, many pensioners are tax payers. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLa Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 It's an interesting and serious subject, there's a good deal of truism and reality to the problem funding the OAP. However I presume the OP isn't running for office in the UK or proposing this on behalf of any political party manifesto, bye bye deposit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Avin Laff 1. OAP is not means tested for the purpose of disallowing payment to those with 'sufficient' wealth or income. Why not Save that money and pay it to those who need it much more? 2. Yes the more you pay in the more you get, but that's not means testing! 3. I realise many OAP including myself are Taxpayers !! DaLa - precisely ! My first sentence was "With an election coming shortly, it's MO that neither the incumbent Tories nor the aspiring Labour Party are free to take the right action". ATB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post scottiejohn Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 6 hours ago, noobexpat said: Maybe they should make it means tested. My parents don't need it and i won't either. Obviously a rich show off who does not care about others who have less than your so called "declared" wealth? Think of others, if you can, who are less well off than "you claim" to be! 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, TorquayFan said: Avin Laff 1. OAP is not means tested for the purpose of disallowing payment to those with 'sufficient' wealth or income. Why not Save that money and pay it to those who need it much more? 2. Yes the more you pay in the more you get, but that's not means testing! 3. I realise many OAP including myself are Taxpayers !! DaLa - precisely ! My first sentence was "With an election coming shortly, it's MO that neither the incumbent Tories nor the aspiring Labour Party are free to take the right action". ATB Why should people be denied an entitlement just because they've also self funded their retirement? Let's all tell the government whether we'll self fund when we all start work and pay a lesser rate of tax and NI as a result. That's fair, isn't it? Edited March 25 by youreavinalaff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Avin Laff If OA Pensioner has made NI contributions as required then I suppose the OA Pension does become an entitlement. However, as the NIC simply goes into the National tax take, rather than being set aside/invested to pay your pension, in fact it's been long spent elsewhere maybe to your benefit in other ways. Better IMO to treat OAP as a benefit that could be withheld when the benefit is not needed and allocated to those in penury. Just makes sense to me. Your second proposal is novel but we would then have to have separate Income tax/NI rates for those in or out of 'self-funding' - sounds very complicated. ATB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 30 minutes ago, TorquayFan said: Avin Laff If OA Pensioner has made NI contributions as required then I suppose the OA Pension does become an entitlement. However, as the NIC simply goes into the National tax take, rather than being set aside/invested to pay your pension, in fact it's been long spent elsewhere maybe to your benefit in other ways. Better IMO to treat OAP as a benefit that could be withheld when the benefit is not needed and allocated to those in penury. Just makes sense to me. Your second proposal is novel but we would then have to have separate Income tax/NI rates for those in or out of 'self-funding' - sounds very complicated. ATB Nothing novel or complicated about it. Why pay for something you're not going to get? Sad state of affairs at Plainmoor, BTW. I was at Boots and Laces a while back. Loooong faces all round. However, that's another conversation for another time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 C Smith - can you not read? . . . (BTW the empassioned question of OAP increases to UK Pensioners in Thailand is not relevant here. Thanks) Whilst I sympathise with your cause it's bl**dy ignorant to paste that carp on this thread when asked not too. Don't you have another thread to go to ? Ah, but I see a link! Maybe IF we didn't pay OAP to Folks with 'sufficient' wealth and income in retirement, we could afford to help your half million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorquayFan Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Avin Laff - "Why pay for something you're not going to get? As I suggested before, you did get it! BUT in the form of maybe roads, schools, Hospitals etc. ad nauseam. It's just another Tax used to pay current stuff. But why give OAP to those amply provided already? Ah 'Boots and Laces' - erstwhile I knew Steve Cooper, many Fans all time favourite . . . . GN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 hours ago, scottiejohn said: Obviously a rich show off who does not care about others who have less than your so called "declared" wealth? Think of others, if you can, who are less well off than "you claim" to be! Ok i'll keep it then 555 Honestly, i think people are more retarded than ever before. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said: Why should people be denied an entitlement just because they've also self funded their retirement? Because i would be quite happy if it went to someone who needed it more than me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 minute ago, noobexpat said: Because i would be quite happy if it went to someone who needed it more than me. Donate yours to charity, then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 minute ago, noobexpat said: Because i would be quite happy if it went to someone who needed it more than me. So give to charity or find a cause to fund......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 32 minutes ago, TorquayFan said: As I suggested before, you did get it! BUT in the form of maybe roads, schools, Hospitals etc. ad nauseam. It's just another Tax used to pay current stuff. As has everyone. Some more than others. By all means give your pension away. Just don't expect others to. Should everyone who can afford private healthcare not use NHS? Should everyone who can afford private education for their kids not use government run schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Donate yours to charity, then. Could do. But it seems that spirit isn't shared by others who also don't need it. So why do you insist on it if you don’t need it? Be honest, is it some weird political nonsense. It usually is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 26 minutes ago, noobexpat said: Could do. But it seems that spirit isn't shared by others who also don't need it. So why do you insist on it if you don’t need it? Be honest, is it some weird political nonsense. It usually is! No. Not political. I'm saving and planing for my retirement. Should be in a few years when I'm 60. I'll have enough to have a good time, help the kids out when they want to buy a property and leave a nice inheritance. When my state pension arrives when I'm 67 it will be mine, to do with what I wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobexpat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said: No. Not political. I'm saving and planing for my retirement. Should be in a few years when I'm 60. I'll have enough to have a good time, help the kids out when they want to buy a property and leave a nice inheritance. When my state pension arrives when I'm 67 it will be mine, to do with what I wish. Fair enough, that sounds all very reasonable. I wouldn't put you in the category of not needing it though ...which is what i was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 19 minutes ago, noobexpat said: Fair enough, that sounds all very reasonable. I wouldn't put you in the category of not needing it though ...which is what i was referring to. Without it I'll need to be less frivolous. I like the idea of frivolity as I get older. I've worked hard in my life. Looking forward to having more than enough money to do what I want. I could do without state pension but, seeing as it's there, I plan to enjoy it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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