Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[dinga]

31 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I have updated the Gift Tax para 77 to reflect Sin Suan Tua:

 

77) Two additional points on this subject are: 1) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. 2) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. However, Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property. Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.

 

 

G'day again Mike.  This whole tax mess is a minefield.... At the risk of being pedantic, what if the source of the Gift to a spouse was an overseas bank account in the sole name of the foreigner - with the initial funds being from the foreigner's savings prior to marriage  ie.  any savings and interest thereon being the sole property of the foreigner.  However, after the date of the marriage I understand any interest payments to that account would - under Thai law, if funds were subsequently transferred to Thailand - be regarded as Joint Property.

 

How do you see the implications of that scenario (which I think will be very very common)????     

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, dinga said:

G'day again Mike.  This whole tax mess is a minefield.... At the risk of being pedantic, what if the source of the Gift to a spouse was an overseas bank account in the sole name of the foreigner - with the initial funds being from the foreigner's savings prior to marriage  ie.  any savings and interest thereon being the sole property of the foreigner.  However, after the date of the marriage I understand any interest payments to that account would - under Thai law, if funds were subsequently transferred to Thailand - be regarded as Joint Property.

 

How do you see the implications of that scenario (which I think will be very very common)????     

Yes! 🙂

 

Let's regain some perspective shall we. None of us involved in this project are experts in Thai tax, our mission here is to try and unravel as much of the mystery as possible and pass along our findings to members as information for them to consider. Increasingly, members questions become more and more complex which in itself is a good thing, because it means everyone is starting to understand the issues and think about the different scenarios, just as you have done. There comes a point however where, even with the best will in the world, trying to answer complex questions becomes futile, it's not as though there is a single reference maula we can go to. I could probably sit and study the question and come up with what I think is a logical answer but the chances it would be correct are not great. Anyway, there are enough other members who get their kicks from guessing and hypothesis without me adding to the fray. Just one thing, caveat emptor!

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, dinga said:

My point is that the balance as at 31/12/2023 - while important - may not be the only important date.  The balance as at the date of transfer may also be critical - depending on the TRD treatment.   

And my point is that the balance at 12/31/23 is what you can transfer, not a satang more,

[JTXR]

I earn no income from Thailand sources but transfer at least TB 66,000 per month from the US to meet the requirement for extension of stay based on original Non-Imm OA retirement visa.  I spend more than 180 days per year in Thailand.  From what I can understand from the original post here, I am therefore a "tax resident" in Thailand and need to file a Thai tax return at the beginning of 2025 and I MAY owe some tax on the money I transferred into Thailand from the US in 2024.

 

After reading all the original post here and also the Thai/US Double Tax Agreement, however, I have no idea whether I WILL in fact owe tax and how much it might be or what the filing process might be. 

I have always prepared and filed my own US tax return myself.  By the look of things so far, one will need a Thai tax attorney to figure out the new requirements here. This nonsense may well be the proverbial straw that breaks the expat retiree camel's back.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, JTXR said:

I earn no income from Thailand sources but transfer at least TB 66,000 per month from the US to meet the requirement for extension of stay based on original Non-Imm OA retirement visa.  I spend more than 180 days per year in Thailand.  From what I can understand from the original post here, I am therefore a "tax resident" in Thailand and need to file a Thai tax return at the beginning of 2025 and I MAY owe some tax on the money I transferred into Thailand from the US in 2024.

 

After reading all the original post here and also the Thai/US Double Tax Agreement, however, I have no idea whether I WILL in fact owe tax and how much it might be or what the filing process might be. 

I have always prepared and filed my own US tax return myself.  By the look of things so far, one will need a Thai tax attorney to figure out the new requirements here. This nonsense may well be the proverbial straw that breaks the expat retiree camel's back.

You don't say what the source of that income is that you transfer, that's the important part. I suggest you read the document linked below.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

A further update to the Gift tax para 77

 

76) Additional points on this subject are:

 

a) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted.

 

b) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs.

 

c) Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property.

 

d) Gifts made outside Thailand appear to be safe.

 

e) The Gift must be formally documented and recorded, the more documentation the better.

 

f) No more than THB 20 mill should be remitted to Thailand per year, unless 5% Gift Tax is paid on the balance.

 

77) Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds.

[Presnock]

6 minutes ago, JTXR said:

I earn no income from Thailand sources but transfer at least TB 66,000 per month from the US to meet the requirement for extension of stay based on original Non-Imm OA retirement visa.  I spend more than 180 days per year in Thailand.  From what I can understand from the original post here, I am therefore a "tax resident" in Thailand and need to file a Thai tax return at the beginning of 2025 and I MAY owe some tax on the money I transferred into Thailand from the US in 2024.

 

After reading all the original post here and also the Thai/US Double Tax Agreement, however, I have no idea whether I WILL in fact owe tax and how much it might be or what the filing process might be. 

I have always prepared and filed my own US tax return myself.  By the look of things so far, one will need a Thai tax attorney to figure out the new requirements here. This nonsense may well be the proverbial straw that breaks the expat retiree camel's back.

that is why we must wait until the Thai revenue department comes out with the final paper explaining how THEY are going to interpret our incomes if at all.  They might realize at some point that with all the different incomes reported from around the world and the 61 DTA's that it is too complicated and they take the easy way out...possibly why they are saying "voluntary" filing of tax forms to see what drops out.

[JTXR]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You don't say what the source of that income is that you transfer, that's the important part. I suggest you read the document linked below.

 

 

I did read that document.  It's what I referred to at the "original post".  The "source" of the funds in the account in the US I transfer from is part "pension" (i.e. US social security) and part savings.  Both are, or have been, either taxed or tax-exempt in the U.S.  The mix of "pension" and "savings" in that account can vary from month to month and figuring out the mix on the date of transfer would be a nightmare and/or impossible. 

My basic point is that the new so-called "requirements", as far as they are actually known, are potentially Byzantine in the extreme.   I have not seen an example of the the tax return I'd be expected to file, but if it will require detailing the "source" of the funds I transfer each month, staying in Thailand is simply not worth it.

[dinga]

5 minutes ago, Presnock said:

that is why we must wait until the Thai revenue department comes out with the final paper explaining how THEY are going to interpret our incomes if at all.  They might realize at some point that with all the different incomes reported from around the world and the 61 DTA's that it is too complicated and they take the easy way out...possibly why they are saying "voluntary" filing of tax forms to see what drops out.

Dead Right - penny to a pound there will be no detailed TRD explanations/clarifications (as is the norm here)

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, JTXR said:

I did read that document.  It's what I referred to at the "original post".  The "source" of the funds in the account in the US I transfer from is part "pension" (i.e. US social security) and part savings.  Both are, or have been, either taxed or tax-exempt in the U.S.  The mix of "pension" and "savings" in that account can vary from month to month and figuring out the mix on the date of transfer would be a nightmare and/or impossible. 

My basic point is that the new so-called "requirements", as far as they are actually known, are potentially Byzantine in the extreme.   I have not seen an example of the the tax return I'd be expected to file, but if it will require detailing the "source" of the funds I transfer each month, staying in Thailand is simply not worth it.

A few things:

 

Us SSc is tax exempt by treaty, it says so in the document

 

Savings earned before 31 December 23 are tax exempt also, the document says that.

 

A mic of pension and savings in the same account represent commingled accounts, there's  a section in the document on that.

 

There is no need to provide documentation regarding the source of your funds, in order to file a Thai tax return, only of asked for later.

[ThaiPauly]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A few things:

 

Us SSc is tax exempt by treaty, it says so in the document

 

Savings earned before 31 December 23 are tax exempt also, the document says that.

 

A mic of pension and savings in the same account represent commingled accounts, there's  a section in the document on 

I am separating pension from rental income so I will just remit pension payments ,which is approx half of the 40k but I do have the exact figures, so my funds should not be comingled as I have kept very good accounts of my income.

 

Is this acceptable?

[topt]

12 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

Is this acceptable?

I doubt anyone can give you a definitive answer. As per Mike's comment above -

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

There is no need to provide documentation regarding the source of your funds, in order to file a Thai tax return, only of asked for later.

So unless or until it happens and potentially depending on the individual Revenue office, it is unlikely that anyone would know. Obviously the better records you have the better chance should it come to pass.

[JTXR]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A few things:

 

Us SSc is tax exempt by treaty, it says so in the document

 

Savings earned before 31 December 23 are tax exempt also, the document says that.

 

A mic of pension and savings in the same account represent commingled accounts, there's  a section in the document on that.

 

There is no need to provide documentation regarding the source of your funds, in order to file a Thai tax return, only of asked for later.

 

OK.  Cool.  Thanks. 

In my situation then, at least until things become less muddy, and assuming interest or dividends on savings earned before 21/12/23 are also tax exempt, I'll  just file a return saying no transferred funds are taxable and wait and see if they ask me later.

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, ThaiPauly said:

I am separating pension from rental income so I will just remit pension payments ,which is approx half of the 40k but I do have the exact figures, so my funds should not be comingled as I have kept very good accounts of my income.

 

Is this acceptable?

As topt quite rightly says, we don't know what documentation the TRD might require but we rate the chances of an audit for the average foreigner as low. Any official documentation and statements you can accumulate in the meantime will be to your advantage.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

As topt quite rightly says, we don't know what documentation the TRD might require but we rate the chances of an audit for the average foreigner as low. Any official documentation and statements you can accumulate in the meantime will be to your advantage.

 

What I have also started doing in this connection is to prepare breakdowns of my various remittances (in the form of Wise transfers) since 1/1/24 between assessable (i.e. the UK State Pension in my case) and non-assessable income - in case these are ever queried at some point in the future by my bank or the TRD.

 

Following on from that, I have attempted to construct what a PND 91 return might look like in my case based on the 2023 version of this form (mindful, of course, that it could be all change once the TRD have condescended to let us know what the 2024 version looks like). This has, however, raised an interesting point in that, if the exemptions and allowances listed in para 89 of the Guide are applied in full to my UK State Pension (which I have provisionally calculated as equating to a total of 300k for the 2024 calendar year) this would result in an overall negative figure, which would presumably not be acceptable since it might give the TRD the misleading impression that I was, in fact, after a tax rebate! So what I am tentatively minded to do instead is to arrive at an overall zero figure through a suitable reduction in the amount of relief claimed through the over-65 190k allowance. Is my thinking likely to be along the right lines here, please?

 

[black tabby12345]

Hello, Mr. MIke Lister,

 

I have been in Thailand as a retiree(on Non-immigrant O by fund-in account method) for more than 10 years.

 

My personal circumstances:

 

1-I usually stay here for full year.

 

2-Income: Interests from:

Thai bank(annual amount less than THB30000-.15% Withholding tax applied).

    Home country(10% Non-resident tax deducted).

And the country of my citizenship has a tax agreement with Thailand.

Therefore no double taxing on one same income.

No other income sources from elsewhere.

 

3-Not receiving any pensions.

 

4-I have not remitted any money from home this year.

And unlikely to do so for the next few years.

Currently living on the fund transferred to Thailand in the past.

 

In such a case like this, 

Do I need to apply for TIN/lodge a tax return in Thailand?

 

I contacted a few tax agents(for foreigners) in Thailand. 

And explained the above details.

But they are keen to avoid definite answer(intending  to charge hefty consultancy fee from the advisory meeting they are willing to arrange).

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

What I have also started doing in this connection is to prepare breakdowns of my various remittances (in the form of Wise transfers) since 1/1/25 between assessable (i.e. the UK State Pension in my case) and non-assessable income - in case these are ever queried at some point in the future by my bank or the TRD.

 

Following on from that, I have attempted to construct what a PND 91 return might look like in my case based on the 2024 version of this form (mindful, of course, that it could be all change once the TRD have condescended to let us know what the 2025 version looks like). This has, however, raised an interesting point in that, if the exemptions and allowances listed in para 89 of the Guide are applied in full to my UK State Pension (which I have provisionally calculated as equating to a total of 300k for the 2024 calendar year) this would result in an overall negative figure, which would presumably not be acceptable since it might give the TRD the misleading impression that I was, in fact, after a tax rebate! So what I am tentatively minded to do instead is to arrive at an overall zero figure through of a suitable reduction in the amount of relief claimed through the over-65 190k allowance. Is my thinking likely to be along the right lines here, please?

 

I do my taxes on a spreadsheet and ignore the TRD form, that tells me what the bottom line looks like which is all I need to know. I do this at various points throughout the year so that I can adjust my remittances, if need be, to get me to the desired point at the need of the year. I take the same approach with my UK and US returns also. My Thai return is more likely to be negative, once TEDA is applied, I sometimes tweak the numbers in order to pay a little bit of tax but many years are a negative number. I then take the spreadsheet down to the tax office and ask the lady there to enter into the online system, knowing that the answer will come back, "no tax due". A negative number doesn't mean a tax refund, unless you've paid lots of Thai tax, which most of us haven't done.

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Hello, Mr. MIke Lister,

 

I have been in Thailand as a retiree(on Non-immigrant O by fund-in account method) for more than 10 years.

 

My personal circumstances:

 

1-I usually stay here for full year.

 

2-Income: Interests from:

Thai bank(annual amount less than THB30000-.15% Withholding tax applied).

    Home country(10% Non-resident tax deducted).

And the country of my citizenship has a tax agreement with Thailand.

Therefore no double taxing on one same income.

No other income sources from elsewhere.

 

3-Not receiving any pensions.

 

4-I have not remitted any money from home this year.

And unlikely to do so for the next few years.

Currently living on the fund transferred to Thailand in the past.

 

In such a case like this, 

Do I need to apply for TIN/lodge a tax return in Thailand?

 

I contacted a few tax agents(for foreigners) in Thailand. 

And explained the above details.

But they are keen to avoid definite answer(intending  to charge hefty consultancy fee from the advisory meeting they are willing to arrange).

So 30k Baht interest from Thai bank, 15% tax withheld.

 

Plus home country bank interest of how much? 

 

If I understand correctly, most of your expense is funded by money already inside the country, is that correct?

 

[black tabby12345]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

So 30k Baht interest from Thai bank, 15% tax withheld.

 

Plus home country bank interest of how much? 

 

If I understand correctly, most of your expense is funded by money already inside the country, is that correct?

 

 

Amount of the interest earned back home is now less than USD4000.

Rollover timing coincided with the lowest interest rate period in my country(2020-2021). 

Amount will improve for the forthcoming years though.

Yes, I have been living on the money that is already here.

 

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

 

Amount of the interest earned back home is now less than USD4000.

Rollover timing coincided with the lowest interest rate period in my country(2020-2021). 

Amount will improve for the forthcoming years though.

Yes, I have been living on the money that is already here.

 

Thanks.

 

USD 4k x say 36 baht = 144k, plus 30k baht from Thai banks, say 175k baht income.

 

You don't say your age but since you don't have a pension, I guess you're under 65 hence not entitled to age related allowance. You should calculate your TEDA (tax exemptions, deductions and allowances) which I think amount to 60k personal allowance plus 150k zero rated for tax band, which gives you 210k minimum versus income of 175k. Those things mean you wont pay tax and can even reclaim the tax on your bank savings tax withholding. Technically you should get a TIN and file a return but many in your situation won't bother, problems only usually arise if you have tax to pay and don't file.

 

If I was you I might get a TIN and reclaim the tax paid at the bank, that will cover you on all bases plus give you a few extra baht in your pocket.

[black tabby12345]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

USD 4k x say 36 baht = 144k, plus 30k baht from Thai banks, say 175k baht income.

 

You don't say your age but since you don't have a pension, I guess you're under 65 hence not entitled to age related allowance. You should calculate your TEDA (tax exemptions, deductions and allowances) which I think amount to 60k personal allowance plus 150k zero rated for tax band, which gives you 210k minimum versus income of 175k. Those things mean you wont pay tax and can even reclaim the tax on your bank savings tax withholding. Technically you should get a TIN and file a return but many in your situation won't bother, problems only usually arise if you have tax to pay and don't file.

 

If I was you I might get a TIN and reclaim the tax paid at the bank, that will cover you on all bases plus give you a few extra baht in your pocket.

 

Thank you for your time and energy devoted to answer my question.

I am not a US national.  But I found your advice sounds very useful.

 

Please allow me to forward some more queries.

 

1-Don't I have to apply for TIN until I really need it?

The dramatical change of my personal circumstances is unlikely though.

 

2-No penalty for a tax resident not having TIN(not proposed)?

 

3-How long does it take, from the application to the actual issue of that number?

 

4-Is it easy to sort out tax return on your own(not relying on an accountant)?

 

5-When I lodge tax return in Thailand, do I have to declare my whole annual income back home(including the amount not remitted to Thailand)?

10% non-resident tax is taken from my interest income.

Do I need to submit any papers to prove it is already taxed home?

 

6-Once you get TIN, does TRD contact you periodically?

 

I thank you again for your kind reply.

 

[Mike Lister]

6 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Thank you for your time and energy devoted to answer my question.

I am not a US national.  But I found your advice sounds very useful.

 

Please allow me to forward some more queries.

 

1-Don't I have to apply for TIN until I really need it?

The dramatical change of my personal circumstances is unlikely though.

 

2-No penalty for a tax resident not having TIN(not proposed)?

 

3-How long does it take, from the application to the actual issue of that number?

 

4-Is it easy to sort out tax return on your own(not relying on an accountant)?

 

5-When I lodge tax return in Thailand, do I have to declare my whole annual income back home(including the amount not remitted to Thailand)?

10% non-resident tax is taken from my interest income.

Do I need to submit any papers to prove it is already taxed home?

 

6-Once you get TIN, does TRD contact you periodically?

 

I thank you again for your kind reply.

 

1-Don't I have to apply for TIN until I really need it?

 

Technically speaking you are supposed to apply for a TIN within 60 days of reaching the assessable income threshold, which is either THB 60k or 120K, based on the source of your earnings and marital status. 

 

2-No penalty for a tax resident not having TIN(not proposed)?

 

There is no penalty I am aware of for not having a  TIN

 

3-How long does it take, from the application to the actual issue of that number?

 

15 minutes

 

4-Is it easy to sort out tax return on your own(not relying on an accountant)?

 

For people with simple tax tax affairs,. it's easy enough to do it yourself. The TRD staff have been extremely helpful in the past and will do it for you if asked.

 

5-When I lodge tax return in Thailand, do I have to declare my whole annual income back home(including the amount not remitted to Thailand)?

10% non-resident tax is taken from my interest income.

Do I need to submit any papers to prove it is already taxed home?

 

No. You only need to report income that was earned in or remitted to Thailand, Income earned overseas that remains overseas, doesn't need to be reported.

 

No, it is not necessary to supply supporting evidence, unless asked once you have filed.

 

6-Once you get TIN, does TRD contact you periodically?

 

No

[black tabby12345]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

1-Don't I have to apply for TIN until I really need it?

 

Technically speaking you are supposed to apply for a TIN within 60 days of reaching the assessable income threshold, which is either THB 60k or 120K, based on the source of your earnings and marital status. 

 

2-No penalty for a tax resident not having TIN(not proposed)?

 

There is no penalty I am aware of for not having a  TIN

 

3-How long does it take, from the application to the actual issue of that number?

 

15 minutes

 

4-Is it easy to sort out tax return on your own(not relying on an accountant)?

 

For people with simple tax tax affairs,. it's easy enough to do it yourself. The TRD staff have been extremely helpful in the past and will do it for you if asked.

 

5-When I lodge tax return in Thailand, do I have to declare my whole annual income back home(including the amount not remitted to Thailand)?

10% non-resident tax is taken from my interest income.

Do I need to submit any papers to prove it is already taxed home?

 

No. You only need to report income that was earned in or remitted to Thailand, Income earned overseas that remains overseas, doesn't need to be reported.

 

No, it is not necessary to supply supporting evidence, unless asked once you have filed.

 

6-Once you get TIN, does TRD contact you periodically?

 

No

Dear Mike,

Thank you very much for your practical straight to the point advice based on your experience.

Such a precious information I can hardly get  elsewhere.

I now feel everything looks clear enough.

I truly appreciate your post.

Wish you have a good day.

 

 

[black tabby12345]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

1-Don't I have to apply for TIN until I really need it?

 

Technically speaking you are supposed to apply for a TIN within 60 days of reaching the assessable income threshold, which is either THB 60k or 120K, based on the source of your earnings and marital status. 

 

2-No penalty for a tax resident not having TIN(not proposed)?

 

There is no penalty I am aware of for not having a  TIN

 

3-How long does it take, from the application to the actual issue of that number?

 

15 minutes

 

4-Is it easy to sort out tax return on your own(not relying on an accountant)?

 

For people with simple tax tax affairs,. it's easy enough to do it yourself. The TRD staff have been extremely helpful in the past and will do it for you if asked.

 

5-When I lodge tax return in Thailand, do I have to declare my whole annual income back home(including the amount not remitted to Thailand)?

10% non-resident tax is taken from my interest income.

Do I need to submit any papers to prove it is already taxed home?

 

No. You only need to report income that was earned in or remitted to Thailand, Income earned overseas that remains overseas, doesn't need to be reported.

 

No, it is not necessary to supply supporting evidence, unless asked once you have filed.

 

6-Once you get TIN, does TRD contact you periodically?

 

No

Please allow me for fresh queries:

 

1-When I lodge Thai tax return (in case where my annual remittance of net interest from home is greater than Thai tax threshold for the single expat'60000THB), should I state that the fund  remitted to Thailand is the money once taxed(non-resident 10% WHT applied) in my home country?

 

2-And will it make a difference in terms of nature of income interpretation from the TRD perspective?

 

3-Or is it simply deemed untaxable if the total of the annual fund transfer is less than the bottom of the Thai income tax bracket(THB150000)?

 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, black tabby12345 said:

Please allow me a fresh queries:

 

1-When I lodge Thai tax return (in case where my annual remittance of net interest from home is greater than Thai tax threshold for the single expat'60000THB), should I state that the fund  remitted to Thailand is the money once taxed(non-resident 10% WHT applied) in my home country?

 

2-And will it make a difference in terms of nature of income interpretation from the TRD perspective?

 

3-Or is it simply deemed untaxable if the total of the annual fund transfer is less than the bottom of the Thai income tax bracket(THB150000)?

 

If/when you get into a situation whereby your remitted assessible income is greater than your TEDA (deductions and allowances), including the zero rated band of 150K, and you potentially might have to pay  Thai tax, you will need to invoke the DTA for the TRD to recognise that you have paid tax overseas on that income. We/I don't fully understand how you do that right now. I had been expecting that the tax forms are being redesigned but others suggest that may not happen, at least not in the short term. Since this is not a right now issue, I suggest you wait and see what develops over the next few months and remain alert to any new tax forms being issued. Since there are lots of people in the same situation as you, we will all be doing the same thing.

[black tabby12345]

24 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If/when you get into a situation whereby your remitted assessible income is greater than your TEDA (deductions and allowances), including the zero rated band of 150K, and you potentially might have to pay  Thai tax, you will need to invoke the DTA for the TRD to recognise that you have paid tax overseas on that income. We/I don't fully understand how you do that right now. I had been expecting that the tax forms are being redesigned but others suggest that may not happen, at least not in the short term. Since this is not a right now issue, I suggest you wait and see what develops over the next few months and remain alert to any new tax forms being issued. Since there are lots of people in the same situation as you, we will all be doing the same thing.

 

Thank you for your reply.

Can I understand that:

 

At this moment, Thai  tax return form does not refer to(cover)  the issue of

foreign income that is already taxed in the country of origin?

Even though TRD says that foreign income once taxed  in the country of its earning will not be taxed again here due to tax treaty.

 

And can I view the current Thai tax return form for individual expat online?

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Thank you for your reply.

Can I understand that:

 

At this moment, Thai  tax return form does not refer to(cover)  the issue of

foreign income that is already taxed in the country of origin?

Even though TRD says that foreign income once taxed  in the country of its earning will not be taxed again here due to tax treaty.

There does not appear to be any way to invoke the DTA, using the existing forms but we do know that DTA terms have been invoked previously, but not how. This is WIP so stay tuned.

 

It is not accurate to say that foreign income, once taxed overseas, will not be taxed in Thailand. DTA's set out which country has the primary and secondary right to tax income. Depending on the DTA in question, it is possible if not probable that overseas income taxed overseas may be subject to Thai tax and credits and/or refunds issued to ensure that double taxation does not take place. It is likely that in some instances, the right to tax income may shift from one country to another, depending on how the TRD wishes to proceed with the terms of a DTA, loosely or tightly. This is all country, DTA and income type dependent hence it is not possible to give any meaningful generalisations.

[black tabby12345]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There does not appear to be any way to invoke the DTA, using the existing forms but we do know that DTA terms have been invoked previously, but not how. This is WIP so stay tuned.

 

It is not accurate to say that foreign income, once taxed overseas, will not be taxed in Thailand. DTA's set out which country has the primary and secondary right to tax income. Depending on the DTA in question, it is possible if not probable that overseas income taxed overseas may be subject to Thai tax and credits and/or refunds issued to ensure that double taxation does not take place. It is likely that in some instances, the right to tax income may shift from one country to another, depending on how the TRD wishes to proceed with the terms of a DTA, loosely or tightly. This is all country, DTA and income type dependent hence it is not possible to give any meaningful generalisations.

 

So it is unsure if TRD fully respect DTA.

And they might tax the money already levied back home(by mistake/on purpose)?

My home country is covered by DTA with Thailand though.

 

Looks like the simplest short-term solution to me at this moment is:

 

To keep the (any future annual remittance) below THB60000.

Thai bank interest is outside assessable income as 15% WHT applied in the first place.

 

When the amount of yearly transfer goes above 60000-, do I  need to lodge tax return even if   the total of remittance is still well below THB150000-?

 

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

So it is unsure if TRD fully respect DTA.

And they might tax the money already levied back home(by mistake/on purpose)?

My home country is covered by DTA with Thailand though.

 

Looks like the simplest short-term solution to me at this moment is:

 

To keep the (any future annual remittance) below THB60000.

Thai bank interest is outside assessable income as 15% WHT applied in the first place.

 

When the amount of yearly transfer goes above 60000-, do I  need to lodge tax return even if   the total of remittance is still well below THB150000-?

 

Will explain when I get back home 

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

So it is unsure if TRD fully respect DTA.

And they might tax the money already levied back home(by mistake/on purpose)?

My home country is covered by DTA with Thailand though.

 

Looks like the simplest short-term solution to me at this moment is:

 

To keep the (any future annual remittance) below THB60000.

Thai bank interest is outside assessable income as 15% WHT applied in the first place.

 

When the amount of yearly transfer goes above 60000-, do I  need to lodge tax return even if   the total of remittance is still well below THB150000-?

 

A DTA can be utilised in an accommodating way or by using a strict interpretation, the latter involving greater effort but also a higher level of tax collection. We do not know which path the TRD will go down at present. I don't see that either way represents a greater risk of double taxation, the likelihood of which remains extremely low. 

 

A sensible approach is to minimise remittances, until all the rules become more clear and this could take many months.

 

Please read the document in the following link, which will answer all your questions.